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Jack of all Trades
Quote from jack:
Are you going to include audio commentary in this run? Personally, I think it's in order because of the high amount of tricks and sequence breaking the run's going to have.

Doubtful. I don't have a radio voice, plus it'd be a lot more work than just writing some comments. I'd rather people just watch the run with clear ingame sound.
That is pretty much it for my version of the greece 2 jump. Yours is so much easier so I will take the few second hit in a (hopeless perhaps) attempt to preserve my sanity. The only side effect of yours is I get my legs chewed by annoying little green bugs while trying to fight the processor but they usually dont cause to much trouble.

I actually also use a different route than you for the rest of greece 2 but they both seem to take the same amount of time give or take a few seconds.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-03-24 07:07:41 pm
marshmallow: 2011-03-24 07:03:49 pm
marshmallow: 2011-03-24 06:47:12 pm
Jack of all Trades
The only level I have to plan out a bit more is comet. Lefty, after you jump the mountain in the first part do you go north to get res from the green crystals or do you immediately cross the acid river and just have the res from that river crystal? Basically comes down to whether collecting more res is faster than blowing up the engines with other items. I'll have to test this.

For the engines you can also use plasma bombs to great effect. Use 1 res for the first 3 parts, then shoot bombs on the last 2 while backing up. See it in action in the vids below.

Here are my comet vids from my no skip speed run. About right for parts 3-5? I mean, aside from getting stuck on random things, but I didn't want to spend a week on it. I hate the weird momentum you get after killing the black alpha-1.

Well I can say I am pretty sure its slower to go north to the resonator field. If you get the one by the sure and get lucky and land om the one dropped from the middle of the river you would have 6.

The only thing that you could do better is after saving post river jump you can jump the wall into the Alien City. That should save you a few seconds.

Based on the amount of damage that lazer missles do to him I am actually wondering if you could OHKO Scorpio with a well placed plasma bomb. I will have to try that out.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Is there a 100% classification for this game at all?
Edit history:
leftysheroes: 2011-03-25 11:45:05 pm
leftysheroes: 2011-03-25 11:28:15 pm
There is not a current accepted definition for 100% that I know of.

IMO I would say:
- All artifacts
- All weapon crystals
- All story items

Obviously all story items would mean removing some of the tricks. No need to do greece 3 jump if you have to do the Atlantous temple anyway to get the rune piece. That being said the later levels would probably be speedrun normally then fly around with helicopter/VTOL collecting stuff.

EDIT: 1:05.08 w/o Atlantous temple skip. This wasnt exactly SS since I forgot which comet engine the jade dragons spawn on and died as a result(ugh). There were still several xorrectable mistakes. Heres a list of realistic timesavers.
- Atlantous temple skip: 3:00+
- Actually getting the plane through the portal to the Java shield generator: .20-.30
- I think I messed up gettibg an optimal far north helicopter bug spawn in America 1. If so then another .10.
- 20 seconds at the beginning of siberia 1 to put in the artifact code so I could practice the boss.
- Siberia boss itself was terrible, at least .20.

All told a SDA worthy SS at worst would be a low 1:01.XX by game timing and could very well be closerb to 1:00.15-1:00.30 range gametime(more like 1:05 realtime).

Do you have any idea what angle kid einstein used when he got the helicopter past the cacti w/o knocking them over. That would probably save 2+ minutes for your segmented if one of us could figure out how he did it.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-03 02:41:11 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-03 02:39:38 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-03 02:38:21 pm
Jack of all Trades
I've been procrastinating on this project for awhile, playing lots of other games instead of this one. I might've burnt myself out a little.

The last I played like 2 months ago, for Comet 1, I remember testing going north the "old nub way," getting res from the crystals, and then using Bush's ramp up the mountain trick to cross the river. During this time I'd have to use at least 1 res to kill the 5000 enemies chasing me and to make sure I have 90%+ hp to survive the acid bath. Looking at my notes, it looks like this takes about 2:10 from start to save. That's estimated from timing the trick and then looking at my no skip comet run and doing a mental insertion.

For lefty's alternate route I remember having trouble getting both res and also making the jump seemed much more difficult. And there was no breathing room because of all the enemies chasing you and no way to heal before the river. I did the trick like twice but I didn't go backwards. I think I tried going backwards once and it was an epic fail.

Maybe I'll make some test clips later to show what I mean, but getting clean runs of this area is pretty demanding because of all the obstacles + the bathtub physics of the alpha-1.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-04 03:57:40 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-04 03:53:01 pm
Jack of all Trades

Got to the save beacon in about 1:50. Can be done about 5-8 secs faster. At the end is that the wall trick you meant lefty? It's nifty. I tried doing it further to the right but the wall was all weird.

I can't figure out how to do lefty's jump with the million enemies chasing you. I die so fast. Stopping to get a single res makes it way harder. The idea of shooting the crystal in the river and not dying seems crazy. I tried a couple times where I grab the easy res and then use it to kill as many enemies as possible then grab hp and hope but I still die. But I could do it eventually maybe. That'd leave 2 res for dark alpha-1. I like the other strat since it gives so much res that the rocket parts will die super fast and save some seconds too.

Did you do your river trick during your SS test run lefty? It seems nuts. How do you not die horribly?
I can get my alternate river jump 100% of the time. If you take a good route you will only spawn 6 Fodder/ 2 Suppressors. Once you know where the fodder spasn they can be taken down w/o much hassle. For a segmented you could probably just ignore all the fodder and possibly the first suppressor. You will most likely be saving immediately after the jump regardless. I use fragcannon on the river crystal.

For jumping the wall I do it farther to the right of where you do it.

For driving backwards just rotate the camera 180 degrees so you can see where youre going.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-07 04:25:21 pm
Jack of all Trades

This has a lot more room for improvement than my other video, just a demo of what I'm looking at right now.

So where does my route go wrong? Because a lot more than 6 fodder show up (btw I like how you use my made up terminology from my FAQ that I barely remember, heh).

When you do the river cross itself do you jump it no problem or do you have to shoot a ton of frag like I did? If not I could skip blowing up the second diamond building for pickups.

@ 0:28 sometimes if you can make the fodder crash into the diamond building it blows up instantly. Failed here. Or maybe it's random. Not sure.

@ 0:58 Is that where you go over the mountain? I know I could just approach it from the road and then swerve left.
Edit history:
leftysheroes: 2011-05-07 12:50:34 pm
As far as avoiding enemy spawns, stay off the roads and try to learn the spawn points.

Yes that is where I jump the wall.The amount of fragcannon you used is pretty typical.

I use the names from your FAQ so you will hopefully know what Im talking about.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-07 04:30:31 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-07 04:23:49 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-07 04:16:56 pm
Jack of all Trades

Here's my current strat. About 28 seconds faster than before. Does this look close to what you do lefty? I only kill one diamond building, make sure to get the items as they pop out of the ground (saves like 3-4 secs right there since they hang in the air so long), ignore the 1st suppressor, and I can do the river trick smoothly now. I probably don't even need that much of a run to get enough momentum, since it seems I have to use frag at the last second to really make it anyway.

I tried ignoring the 2nd suppressor a couple times but he roflstomped me when I was in the acid. Maybe it's possible though. I also know when going over the mountain you can go left or right so you don't hit that tower enemy but it's tricky. That would save another 3-4 secs.

I'm doing some rough calculations on how long it takes to kill the engine parts with what items. It seems if I do lefty's river jump I'll need to definitely snag that 2nd res from the river crystal, so add another 4-5 secs to the above vid I guess. I haven't actually ever gotten it yet though. With this strat as is, it'll be very tricky because when you get the easy res on the left 2 suppressors spawn in and close to your position pretty quick.

EDIT: And yeah I know in that vid the save prompt took longer to come up because I had to wait for the UI to finish saying chaingun. So I'll either have to get across with 3 frag left or just use the chaingun.
If you go counterclockwise around the road while blasting the suppressor so you dont cross the road the other 2 suppressors wont appear.

It may not be a terrible idea to use a resonator to take out the crystal in the river. Each section of the comet engines can be destroyed with only 2 lazer missles as long as long as you wait a second before firing the second one. The same goes for pretty much any building.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-16 09:29:01 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-09 09:04:44 pm
marshmallow: 2011-05-09 08:41:07 pm
Jack of all Trades

I'll definitely want to get that extra res in the river. I did many test runs and it's doable. Trouble is you have to either land on it as you go through the water or hope it goes up the shore because it won't go to you if you're under it in the acid. Really, really random and annoying. Then on the engine parts you'd have 4 res so you'd go:

res + chaingun first engine, grab 2 missiles + plasma bombs
res + 2 bomb the rest, hope another plasma wanders into your path which isn't that rare

America 1:

I think these are the closest copter enemies you can activate for the cactus kill trick. BTW I almost never have mutants when I do this level normally, I just took the safe route to get to the hospital. But even with mutants this is faster as you can see.

I decided to capture some obsoleted tricks for fun:

Weird people without collision detection I found in the America energy tower area, I guess the devs forgot to delete these guys:

Jack of all Trades
I've started running Greece and I've noticed something. If you have a fresh file ready to go and you turn the system on and go to it immediately, pause, and check the time in the inventory it'll say 11 seconds. If you cancel out of another game and then select it right away it'll say 5 seconds. Oh Body Harvest...
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-05-16 10:03:09 pm
Jack of all Trades
I'm at the point now where I have to learn how to do the Greece 3 jump. Oh boy.

Lefty, you once said I should line it up first and then back up the hill. But when I try that I can't go backwards up the hill, I just stall pretty low and I can't wiggle out of it either. I also might be crazy but sometimes it seems like I get closer if instead of hitting the pointy part of the V I hit slightly to the left of it.

What did you say your chance of doing this was? 1/30? Or did you get better since then?

In the first vid below I get a weird damage boost. Notice how I lose hp and my guy flashes white. If I was aimed to the left I probably would've made it. But I have no idea why I took damage.

The damage flash happens to me to but is no guarantee for making the jump. You don't have to back to the top of the hill, only far enough for the bike to hit top speed.

1/30 was a very rough estimate. For me its more or less make it 4 of 7 tries then miss 150 times in a row. The best strategy is to keep changing your line slightly(while still aiming at the correct part of the cliff). Youll get lucky eventually. The best advice is to practice the postjump route like crazy so you hopefully only have to make it once.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2011-08-07 08:00:27 am
Jack of all Trades
To the 10 people who care, this run isn't dead. But I did put it on the backburner awhile back because I wanted to focus on finishing my L4D2 campaign. After that's done (which should be within a month or two at most) I'll look at BH again. Of course, I never did get the Greece 3 jump to work, so maybe that will crush my spirit like it did others. Fingers crossed!
Willing to teach you the impossible
The improvement is still going to be massive even if you cant get 1 or 2 of the tricks. Thanks for the update though
Okay now that I have the ability to record without having to fight for time with the DVD recorder in the family room I think its time to get this done. Here is my plan for a SS broken down into segments of the game.

- Up to the Greece 3 jump: I will no doubt see this part of the game way WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much. The chance of me not getting to the jump itself on any particular attempt is pretty small. As long I use marshmallows strat the Greece 2 jump is pretty easy. The processors aren't hard either.

- The jump itself: Brutal, just brutal. Nothing more to say about this.

- Greece post jump: As long as I kill the proc and get to the shield generator without losing the plane I will be plenty satisfied. Having to finish the shield generator on foot wouldn't exactly be desirable but given the difficulty to just get to that point I would not reset just based on that. Boss is easy.

- Java 1: I have a strategy for setting up the giant ramming alien where he'll hit me from the right angle every time. If thats not good enough the strat for the setup allows me to get the machine gun in the building while setting up the trick which is pretty good also.

- Java 2-4 For the most part driving over the cliff next to the broken mine thing isn't that bad. For Java 3 I intend to use the Gyrocopter to take out the processor. This has several advantages for me: it flys faster than the plane, its impossible to lose to the processor(no need to worry about the plane getting stuck on one of the turret things), I'mswithing to the Zero so that I have full health for storm skip regardless. Hopefully I will actually be able to fly the plane through the portal but if not I can over the ridge to get to the airfield. I will probably use the bulldog for the SG since it is a 100% guaranteed victory and still pretty fast.

- America 1: As long as I keep looking at the scorpion I shouldn't have any problems getting him to cooperate. I also plan to take a second or two to line up each of the jumps to guarantee that I make them.

- America 2-4: The big thing here is learning to take proper routes without having to use waypoints. Otherwise really easy.

- Siberia: I don't intend to do the sub lift trick. I have a pretty fast strategy for getting to and killing the proc with the Aquatank. Siberia 2 will make me really nervous since its very possible to die when running from the nuke facility to the VTOL. Siberia 4 is all about making sure that I don't spawn any aliens. The shield generator fight will be insanely nervewracking since the helicopter things can take out your VTOL in a matter of a few seconds if they gang up on you.

- Comet: I really hope I get lucky with the Resonator crystal in the river but I'm not gonna hold my breath. If I don't get it I have a semi reliable strategy for Dark Alpha 1 that only uses one resonator but still kills him very fast. I just get under him and knock half his health off with Fragcannon then finish him with the one resonator. This gives me one to potentially save my ass in the alien city and one to take out the eliminators that spawn with the final boss(if I get lucky they may drop resonator for me otherwise its plasma bombs for the first phase. In practice I would usually have at least one of the arms drop resonator to use for the second phase.

For now the target time that I will try to beat is 1:01 gametime which should be possible if I get good boss fights and don't screw up any of the tricks(aside from not finishing Greece SG with the plane).
Best of lucks, mate! I can't wait to finally see the run.
Jack of all Trades
Have you been trying SS runs lefty? I always think I'll plug the N64 back in and do this but I've never done the Greece 3 jump so it seems like it'll just be a waste of time. If you pull the jump off can you make a clip of it just so I see what you do exactly?
I try to get as many attempts in as my schedule will allow. To date I have made the Greece jump in an actual attempt a whole ONE time and that run ended on Siberia 2 at the hands of helicopter bugs and really bad luck. The bugs must have been coming behind me when I went into the nuke building because I got hit by a double pulse ball shot(for an instant KO) literally a half second after exiting. My best time for a full run that just does the Atlantous temple was something like 1:02.20ish game time but since the jump is only like 5 minutes in I really feel that it has to be in an acceptable run.

If you want to play around with something there is a spot where the shield wall makes a corner near the beginning of Greece 1. Ive tried glitching through that corner because it seems to me like it must be possible somehow but I haven't had any success with it.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2012-01-25 10:31:37 pm
marshmallow: 2012-01-25 10:23:58 pm
marshmallow: 2012-01-25 10:22:59 pm
Jack of all Trades
Quote from leftysheroes:
To date I have made the Greece jump in an actual attempt a whole ONE time and that run ended on Siberia 2 at the hands of helicopter bugs and really bad luck.

Could you please make a clip of the jump for me? I guess you probably deleted that attempt by now. But if you do it again? I'd appreciate it. I also might be curious to see how you do the Java 1 bug launch so consistently. Edit to add: And launching grenades from the jeep into the Java processor's head to kill it faster? I don't think I ever got that to work.

The bugs must have been coming behind me when I went into the nuke building because I got hit by a double pulse ball shot(for an instant KO) literally a half second after exiting.

Yep, that's happened to me too. I'm saving it and some other weird things for the eventual blooper reel.

My best time for a full run that just does the Atlantous temple was something like 1:02.20ish game time but since the jump is only like 5 minutes in I really feel that it has to be in an acceptable run.

Yeah if it wasn't for that hellish jump I probably would've made a run last year. Did you ever figure out/remember that Siberia lake thing where you run up the beach?

If you want to play around with something there is a spot where the shield wall makes a corner near the beginning of Greece 1. Ive tried glitching through that corner because it seems to me like it must be possible somehow but I haven't had any success with it.

I think a guy way earlier in the thread said going through blue walls doesn't work because the game will automatically spit you back out. He tested it with a gameshark iirc. The wall behind you at the start of Greece 1 is right next to the shield tower.
Edit history:
leftysheroes: 2012-01-27 08:43:45 pm
I'll have a video of the jump as soon as possible. Unfortunately its not just something that you can just do at will as my 2 hours of failures today will attest to.

As far as the blue walls go I don't remember anything about someone testing it with a gameshark or anything but the best idea I have is to do the big bug charge to destroy the vehicle trick when the vehicle is embedded into the wall as much as possible and pause the game right when the game explodes and somehow when you unpause and the game reloads your position it will put you on the other side. An alternate idea would be to find a way to cause as much commotion as possible to try to stress out the games engine. I'm not sure how you would do that in Greece though since you need a great many bugs on the screen to acheive this.

One more wierd thing that I was trying out is in America 1 there is an road near where the first ramp you use the hotrod to jump over where you can get pretty big air by jumping off it. If you take the right angle you can bounce off the buildings and it may be possible to hit it in just the right way to jump over the fence so that you don't have to knock the fence over in the first place. If possible that would be a pretty neat segmented only trick. P.S. Ive actually bounced all the way into the cavern once so the distance can be achieved, its just a matter of finding the right angle to land on the ramp.

EDIT: After all the pain and aggravation of attempting to get the Greece jump on video(which still isn't over after 10 hours>:() I've pretty much concluded that its not feasible in a SS run. So my question would be; could a SS that skips that jump still be accepted given that the jump is probably something like a 1 in 150-400 shot and there is still 50 minutes of speedrun to finish afterwards.