Body Harvest 64 improvements?

2011-02-24 10:21:11 pm

I unfortunately still have no idea how I did Siberia 3. That being said there are a few things I want to try.
- Is it possible to shoot a rocket at the Scud and duck back into Siberia 3 before it hits.
- Will the rig workers come if you try picking them up with the VTOL. If you could how fast could it be done.
- I think the lightning from the fish can damage the iceberg. All 3 working together could possibly take it out fast.us Good luck getting back to the boat though.

Since you now start java 4 with a plane you can turn south immediately and go for the proc. Once again hug the shield wall till you get close then loop around and blast him. My game has yet to freeze when I take this route(only 5 attempts but it freezes 80% doing it the other way). I think it may be a result of not spawning half as mzny Roach Gunners but thats just a guess. If you get bad luck with harvester waves eating people to fast you will probably game over. The logical ones to take out are:
- Java 2 first village but you already know this
- Java 2 near grenades
- Java 3 in village near airfield.

I tried using the plane that drops the bombs against the processors but it didn't work very well.

I unfortunately still have no idea how I did Siberia 3. That being said there are a few things I want to try.
- Is it possible to shoot a rocket at the Scud and duck back into Siberia 3 before it hits.
- Will the rig workers come if you try picking them up with the VTOL.  If you could how fast could it be done.
- I think the lightning from the fish can damage the iceberg. All 3 working together could possibly take it out fast.us Good luck getting back to the boat though.

Since you now start java 4 with a plane you can turn south immediately and go for the proc. Once again hug the shield wall till you get close then loop around and blast him. My game has yet to freeze when I take this route(only 5 attempts but it freezes 80% doing it the other way). I think it may be a result of not spawning half as mzny Roach Gunners but thats just a guess. If you get bad luck with harvester waves eating people to fast you will probably game over. The logical ones to take out are:
- Java 2 first village but you already know this
- Java 2 near grenades
- Java 3 in village near airfield.

I tried using the plane that drops the bombs against the processors but it didn't work very well.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-02-24 10:47:13 pm

2011-02-24 10:46:31 pm

Jack of all Trades

Not sure exactly, but I think this saves 2 maybe 3 minutes over the old strat once I get a good route (e.g. no waypoints, dodging the dialogue, curving so I can kill the java 3 proc in a smooth motion). Man, that's awesome. Unfortunately now this means all of Java has to be one segment. :O I'll have to try flying to the java 4 proc directly, good call.

Never had trouble with people getting eaten too much, as long as I do the kubelwagon trick in one go (which in a speed run I should of course).

VTOL picking up the workers would be funny, but iirc the countdown still has to finish and the guy won't give you the sub until it's over. Could be wrong though.

I thought about the shield hole and the scud, but two things: first, I notice you can't hurt bugs in one level from another through a hole. Second, the time it takes to bring the scud all the way back to the start in the slow ass hangman and then fly back to get the VTOL would probably be slower than just doing it the normal way. But I could be wrong there too I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXE8zF2p3vE

Not sure exactly, but I think this saves 2 maybe 3 minutes over the old strat once I get a good route (e.g. no waypoints, dodging the dialogue, curving so I can kill the java 3 proc in a smooth motion). Man, that's awesome. Unfortunately now this means all of Java has to be one segment. :O I'll have to try flying to the java 4 proc directly, good call.

Never had trouble with people getting eaten too much, as long as I do the kubelwagon trick in one go (which in a speed run I should of course).

VTOL picking up the workers would be funny, but iirc the countdown still has to finish and the guy won't give you the sub until it's over. Could be wrong though.

I thought about the shield hole and the scud, but two things: first, I notice you can't hurt bugs in one level from another through a hole. Second, the time it takes to bring the scud all the way back to the start in the slow ass hangman and then fly back to get the VTOL would probably be slower than just doing it the normal way. But I could be wrong there too I guess.

leftysheroes

2011-02-24 11:01:51 pm

For Siberia 4 I was hoping for a fly through shield portal, fire rocket at scud, duck back to sib3 to survive blast, reenter and fight processor. It probably wouldnt work. Comically, you can just walk in ant take the launch card w/o asking the guy first. Russia does a great job guarding those nukes dont they?

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:11:30 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:09:50 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:08:24 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:07:45 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:07:30 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:06:36 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:04:41 am

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 12:03:38 am

2011-02-25 12:02:45 am

Jack of all Trades

Thing is, it seems like you die the second the scud blows up. Not much of a delay. You could still try to blow it up from even further away than I did maybe. Or, on foot, snipe it with machine gun and try to roll back through the shield hole. I'd think rolling would be faster than backing the VTOL up.

Or maybe fly really high and drop it and see if hitting the ground damages it. It seems like most vehicles take a tiny sliver of damage if you fall like 100 feet. Are there any nice valleys anywhere so you can be as far away as possible?

Before I forget, not that it matters much, but that glitch I talked about a long time ago when trying to kill the tower jellies by landing the hangman right next to them? You get that when the vehicle is too close to you and the auto-aim locks on to the vehicle and Adam can't turn around so he just stares at the ground. Had the same thing happen sometimes on the beach in java 3 when sniping the proc with the rocket launcher.

I think I showed just grabbing the card in one of my vids I uploaded, maybe not though. AFAIK the only thing that guy does is unlock the far away tank.

For Java 3, this means no more awesome airboat volcano skip. It goes the way of the on foot American tricks. Such a shame. Maybe I'll chronicle all the obsoleted tricks for the 10 people BH fanatics who care.

Also means I can jump out of the jeep and kill the java 2 proc with machine gun. Would be faster than either of the jeep weapons I think...can't seem to hit his head with the jeep MG very reliably, but I may suck and have to try harder.

Thing is, it seems like you die the second the scud blows up. Not much of a delay. You could still try to blow it up from even further away than I did maybe. Or, on foot, snipe it with machine gun and try to roll back through the shield hole. I'd think rolling would be faster than backing the VTOL up.

Or maybe fly really high and drop it and see if hitting the ground damages it. It seems like most vehicles take a tiny sliver of damage if you fall like 100 feet. Are there any nice valleys anywhere so you can be as far away as possible?

Before I forget, not that it matters much, but that glitch I talked about a long time ago when trying to kill the tower jellies by landing the hangman right next to them? You get that when the vehicle is too close to you and the auto-aim locks on to the vehicle and Adam can't turn around so he just stares at the ground. Had the same thing happen sometimes on the beach in java 3 when sniping the proc with the rocket launcher.

I think I showed just grabbing the card in one of my vids I uploaded, maybe not though. AFAIK the only thing that guy does is unlock the far away tank.

For Java 3, this means no more awesome airboat volcano skip. It goes the way of the on foot American tricks. Such a shame. Maybe I'll chronicle all the obsoleted tricks for the 10 people BH fanatics who care.

Also means I can jump out of the jeep and kill the java 2 proc with machine gun. Would be faster than either of the jeep weapons I think...can't seem to hit his head with the jeep MG very reliably, but I may suck and have to try harder.

leftysheroes

2011-02-25 12:33:23 am

One quick suggestion: Try Grenades vs Java 2 proc. I think they kill it in 2 shots if you hit the head.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 11:31:36 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 11:31:32 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 11:31:31 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 11:30:46 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-25 11:29:47 pm

2011-02-25 11:29:22 pm

Jack of all Trades

Doing a "for fun" speed run of BH with no major skips. Basically the same strats as my old run, but I want to see how badly I can smash it with just better execution. Saved at the start of America and I'm already 8 mins faster on the ingame clock. So sad. But this might serve as a better baseline for how much the new strats actually save. I'll upload it when I'm done if anyone is sick enough to want to see it. Wonder if I'll break the 2 hour mark. I wonder with all the new strats if we'll break the 1 hour mark. :O

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-02-27 03:59:16 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-27 03:58:40 pm

2011-02-27 03:58:13 pm

Jack of all Trades

Just confirmed you can't pick up the oil rig workers with the VTOL.

So you don't remember how to run up the ice shore? Did you just run through the tunnel in your single segment attempt?

For Java 4 in my testing of the new trick in java 3 I never did actually get the plane to survive. It always blew up from lightning on the way back to the portal after killing the proc. I guess my angle for turning around to get to the proc was inefficient or something. I'll have to try again later and see what's up.

leftysheroes

2011-02-27 09:29:34 pm

No unfortunately, I still dont remember how I climbed the ive shore. At this point I think it was probably a fluke or something.

I did go through the tunnel on the SS.

I have been working on a way to make America faster. If you piss around for a little bit at the beginning of America 2 a Harvester Wave will beam in and 2 of those helicopter things will come for you. If I can find a way to shoot one so that it crashes right on the portal it may knock the cacti over. Unfortunately there is a slope near the portal and the helicopter things are unbelievably uncooperative.

I dont really take that much of a loop for killing Jxva 4 procescor I just fly in on a line in front of him and manually aim for his head.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-02-28 08:50:55 pm

marshmallow: 2011-02-28 08:50:32 pm

2011-02-28 08:50:10 pm

Jack of all Trades

For America, I think it was Kid Einstein who said he once got the copter through the portal without killing any cacti. He called it a fluke. That would save a couple minutes if we could figure out how to do it. I have no optimism for that though.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a way to get a jeep over the mountain in Java 2 so you can skip the grenades. I tried and failed, but even if successful it seems it would take about as much time as just getting the grenades anyway since it doesn't take that long.

Lefty, for the ice shore is it that you can't remember or did you actually try to do it again and failed?

leftysheroes

2011-02-28 09:14:25 pm

I have experienced nothing but massive failure with Siberia 3. I,m wondering if maybe I dropped one of the other vehicles and used it to escape in some way.

I have spent way to much time failing attempting to get the copter past the cacti. Interestingly enough a Harvester wave will sometimes spawn in America 1 for me after the proc is dead.

I have tried getting the jeep over the mountain. I always end up pinned against the shield wall with no means of escape. I have not looked into some of the more out of the way possibilities yet.

I managed to drop one of the America 2 helicopters very close to the shield portal but no cacti where knocked down. In a perfect world I could possibly drop one closer but it would be brutally difficult.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-01 06:23:18 pm

2011-03-01 06:22:48 pm

Jack of all Trades

My casual "no major skip" run final time by the lying ingame clock: 1:48:58. Old run: 2:22:49. I knew it was pretty bad, but I didn't expect a 30+ minute improvement. And if I was doing it as a real speed run it could be improved by another minute or two. Although I wonder how much the "time runs on title screen" thing messed my old run up.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-07 12:29:10 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-07 12:28:24 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-07 12:27:06 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-07 12:25:09 pm

2011-03-07 12:24:52 pm

Jack of all Trades

Here are some vids of things that happened during my casual no skip run and/or random testing. Only the first two have speed running relevance though.

I was going to see if I could shottie the proc (the answer is no because of the fat shield) and he killed himself a la java 4:

I don't know if this freeze happens on an America glitched helicopter run. I think I was too sloppy when testing to see. The solution for my no skip run was to wait until after the save point was launched.

Only time I ever froze on siberia. Lots of mutants, tons of explosions, and like 100 enemies I ignored helped I'm sure:

leftysheroes

2011-03-07 10:54:52 pm

I've actually had the game freeze on the Siberia 4 proc a couple times but its quite rare.

Anyway, I have been steadily trying to come up with reliable(sometimes slightly slower) for a possible single segment run if I ever manage to finish DK64. Even without Atlantous Temple skip and segmenting I managed a time of 1:14:39.

There are several things that will need to be practiced quite a bit for this to be even possible.
- I screwed up the Greece shield generator.
- To use one of your adjectives, I am embarrassingly bad at using planes(except VTOL) to kill processors.
- Im really bad at doing sub lift.
-Sineria shield generator.
- SCORPIO!!! I really hate that he can punish a very minor mistake by destroying Alpha 1 in one hit.

The big question is whether I could leave Atlantous Temple skip out of a legitimate run. Therr are several areas where a run could end just due to bad luck.
- Failing either America 1 jump for no apparent reason.
- Java 4 proc freezing.
- Siberia 2 either getting stuck in thr iceberg because of a glitch or killed by the helicopter bugs during the nuke sequence.

Even w/o greece 3 a good run would be 1:10 max using the lol in game timer. With Greece 3 it would probably be in the 1:03-1:05 range.

I've actually had the game freeze on the Siberia 4 proc a couple times but its quite rare.

Anyway, I have been steadily trying to come up with reliable(sometimes slightly slower) for a possible single segment run if I ever manage to finish DK64. Even without Atlantous Temple skip and segmenting I managed a time of 1:14:39.

There are several things that will need to be practiced quite a bit for this to be even possible.
- I screwed up the Greece shield generator.
- To use one of your adjectives, I am embarrassingly bad at using planes(except VTOL) to kill processors.
- Im really bad at doing sub lift.
-Sineria shield generator.
- SCORPIO!!! I really hate that he can punish a very minor mistake by destroying Alpha 1 in one hit.

The big question is whether I could leave Atlantous Temple skip out of a legitimate run. Therr are several areas where a run could end just due to bad luck.
- Failing either America 1 jump for no apparent reason.
- Java 4 proc freezing.
- Siberia 2 either getting stuck in thr iceberg because of a glitch or killed by the helicopter bugs during the nuke sequence.

Even w/o greece 3 a good run would be 1:10 max using the lol in game timer. With Greece 3 it would probably be in the 1:03-1:05 range.

marshmallow

2011-03-08 08:37:57 am

Jack of all Trades

Here's my Scorpio strat that never fails me. YMMV.

So you have the ability to record? Why did you never just beat my old time then? Or make a clip of the greece 3 jump so I know what a successful attempt looks like. Cheesy

leftysheroes

2011-03-08 10:53:18 am

I can record, I just cant upload due to my computer situation. The only issue I have for submitting is I would have to transfer the run from DVD-RW to DVD-R before sending it tp Nate. Hopefully I'll resolve the computer situation before that problem arises.

Why I didn't beat your run: Honestly dont know but your old BH run isnt the only one that I have beaten.

That is how I fight Scorpio, I was just pointing out that at the end of a SSID including tricks like greece3/storm skip/sub lift he will be an extremely scary fight.

leftysheroes

2011-03-15 08:14:17 pm

Alright, I have some more shortcuts that you most likely already know but I'll post them just in case.
- In Greece 1 there is another path to the village with the motorcylce that doesnt take the road to the grenade bunker. If you go this way its a couple seconds faster to just keep the Nico's Supplies(as opposed to switching to the saloon.). You can also drive over mountains as a shortcut to the bridge and for a shortcut to the bike immediately after crossing.
- After getting the bike there is a minor shortcut to the processor. Instead of taking the long way around the mountain just drive along the hill next to the water.
- In Greece 3 immediately after the bike jump there is a small dirt road bridge to the east. This saves at least 30 seconds driving to the airport.
- At the beginning of Java 3 you can drive over some mountains to get onto the trail a few seconds faster.

About Java 4 storm skip freezing: I am almost certain at this point that the freezing has nothing to do with the storm and everything to do with Roach Gunners. Furthermore there are no Roach Gunners until the last gorge leading to the processor so the path you take really doesnt matter. Just fly high and the numerous jellies wont hit you. My original hug the shield wall strategy is actually the WORST way to do storm skip since it exposes you to more Roach Gunners and causes game freezing(so much for me being this huge BH expert).

As far as a hypothetical SS goes with the strats I have now it should be smooth sailing from post jump Greece 3 all the way to the Siberia Shield Generator, which I dont really have a good strategy for mainly due to helicopter bug randomness. If several turn there machine guns on you all at once you can lose the VTOL in like 5 seconds.

Finally some unrelated funny things:
- One time while fighting the Siberia 4 process it just vanished but the bugs where still there. After checking and finding the portal still unopened, I start flying around looking for it. I finally found it floating 30 feet above the building where you get the nuke launch code.
- If you go into the your inventory during the temporary darkness when a harvester wave beams in it will stay dark until you go in a building or another wave beams in. I jokingly refer to this as Armageddon mode since the darkness is very fitting for the doomsday alien invasion theme.

Alright, I have some more shortcuts that you most likely already know but I'll post them just in case.
- In Greece 1 there is another path to the village with the motorcylce that doesnt take the road to the grenade bunker. If you go this way its a couple seconds faster to just keep the Nico's Supplies(as opposed to switching to the saloon.). You can also drive over mountains as a shortcut to the bridge and for a shortcut to the bike immediately after crossing.
- After getting the bike there is a minor shortcut to the processor. Instead of taking the long way around the mountain just drive along the hill next to the water.
- In Greece 3 immediately after the bike jump there is a small dirt road bridge to the east. This saves at least 30 seconds driving to the airport.
- At the beginning of Java 3 you can drive over some mountains to get onto the trail a few seconds faster.

About Java 4 storm skip freezing: I am almost certain at this point that the freezing has nothing to do with the storm and everything to do with Roach Gunners. Furthermore there are no Roach Gunners until the last gorge leading to the processor so the path you take really doesnt matter. Just fly high and the numerous jellies wont hit you. My original hug the shield wall strategy is actually the WORST way to do storm skip since it exposes you to more Roach Gunners and causes game freezing(so much for me being this huge BH expert).

As far as a hypothetical SS goes with the strats I have now it should be smooth sailing from post jump Greece 3 all the way to the Siberia Shield Generator, which I dont really have a good strategy for mainly due to helicopter bug randomness. If several turn there machine guns on you all at once you can lose the VTOL in like 5 seconds.

Finally some unrelated funny things:
- One time while fighting the Siberia 4 process it just vanished but the bugs where still there. After checking and finding the portal still unopened, I start flying around looking for it. I finally found it floating 30 feet above the building where you get the nuke launch code.
- If you go into the your inventory during the temporary darkness when a harvester wave beams in it will stay dark until you go in a building or another wave beams in. I jokingly refer to this as Armageddon mode since the darkness is very fitting for the doomsday alien invasion theme.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:16:38 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:16:09 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:15:59 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:14:59 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:14:32 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:13:44 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:10:28 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:09:03 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:03:12 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-19 06:01:48 pm

2011-03-19 06:00:13 pm

Jack of all Trades

If you're serious about doing a single segment run with all the tricks then I fold since you're obviously way out of my league. I'll ask to have my old run taken down when yours is published. I guess you don't do my siberia lake seam walk, but if you don't lobby to have the time standard changed then it won't matter since you won't lose any time going through the tunnel. Can't imagine doing the sub lift trick 40 minutes into an SS run, but I would never even get that far anyway. You're a machine. Just make sure to credit Bush, Kid Einstein, someone else in this thread I can't remember, and maybe me (was I even useful at all besides inspiration for the run/java3 early airplane? Did you already know about the siberia2 beach run thing?).

If I did a really good segmented run it'd be like what, a minute better than yours? At best? Probably about the same, especially considering the 20 sec hit I'd take saving in greece. It's funny because the only reason I bought this capture card was to do a BH run.

EDIT: 2 years ago I did a sloppy segmented test run that was like 1:20 in the game clock and I didn't do greece 3 jump, java 1 skip, sub lift, and that was back when we didn't do early airplane in java 3 and I didn't have a good proc 3 strat. And my boss runs and energy towers were probably still terrible. And the comet was probably pretty slow too. I wouldn't be surprised if the best time was sub hour.

If you're serious about doing a single segment run with all the tricks then I fold since you're obviously way out of my league. I'll ask to have my old run taken down when yours is published. I guess you don't do my siberia lake seam walk, but if you don't lobby to have the time standard changed then it won't matter since you won't lose any time going through the tunnel. Can't imagine doing the sub lift trick 40 minutes into an SS run, but I would never even get that far anyway. You're a machine. Just make sure to credit Bush, Kid Einstein, someone else in this thread I can't remember, and maybe me (was I even useful at all besides inspiration for the run/java3 early airplane? Did you already know about the siberia2 beach run thing?).

If I did a really good segmented run it'd be like what, a minute better than yours? At best? Probably about the same, especially considering the 20 sec hit I'd take saving in greece. It's funny because the only reason I bought this capture card was to do a BH run.

EDIT: 2 years ago I did a sloppy segmented test run that was like 1:20 in the game clock and I didn't do greece 3 jump, java 1 skip, sub lift, and that was back when we didn't do early airplane in java 3 and I didn't have a good proc 3 strat. And my boss runs and energy towers were probably still terrible. And the comet was probably pretty slow too. I wouldn't be surprised if the best time was sub hour.

leftysheroes

2011-03-20 12:56:45 pm

I have to strongly disagree with your estimate of the time difference between a ideal single-segment and a SS. Here is a list of all the places I could lose time to a real good segmented.
- The bosses. In a SS its quite likely that one of these wont go very well. A segmented would also be able to use luck manipulation to have 3-6 extra resonators for the final boss which speeds things up considerably.
- My strategy for java3/4 processors is fairly cautious. More aggressive attack lines/ not swapping to the zero would save 20-30 seconds here.
- 10-15 seconds in America 1 with good golden scorpion luck which most likely wont happen for me.
- A real fast sub lift would save about 30 seconds and a real aggressive/lucky Siberia 4 could gain another 30 seconds at least.
- I will have to be very careful in the Alien City on the Comet. A damn the jade dragons full speed ahead strat would be 30+ seconds faster. I also have to stop to pick up extra lazer missles/fragcannon for the final boss since theres no guarantee the eliminators will drop anything useful.

All told I believe a good segmented run will be AT LEAST 3 minutes faster than the best SS that I could possibly pull off. That being said there is no reason that my future plans to stop you. I think that both runs done well would certainly have a place here.

I have to strongly disagree with your estimate of the time difference between a ideal single-segment and a SS. Here is a list of all the places I could lose time to a real good segmented.
- The bosses. In a SS its quite likely that one of these wont go very well. A segmented would also be able to use luck manipulation to have 3-6 extra resonators for the final boss which speeds things up considerably.
- My strategy for java3/4 processors is fairly cautious. More aggressive attack lines/ not swapping to the zero would save 20-30 seconds here.
- 10-15 seconds in America 1 with good golden scorpion luck which most likely wont happen for me.
- A real fast sub lift would save about 30 seconds and a real aggressive/lucky Siberia 4 could gain another 30 seconds at least.
- I will have to be very careful in the Alien City on the Comet. A damn the jade dragons full speed ahead strat would be 30+ seconds faster. I also have to stop to pick up extra lazer missles/fragcannon for the final boss since theres no guarantee the eliminators will drop anything useful.

All told I believe a good segmented run will be AT LEAST 3 minutes faster than the best SS that I could possibly pull off. That being said there is no reason that my future plans to stop you. I think that both runs done well would certainly have a place here.

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-21 04:52:48 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-21 04:52:06 pm

2011-03-21 02:03:38 pm

Jack of all Trades

Quote from leftysheroes:

- In Greece 1 there is another path to the village with the motorcylce that doesnt take the road to the grenade bunker. If you go this way its a couple seconds faster to just keep the Nico's Supplies(as opposed to switching to the saloon.). You can also drive over mountains as a shortcut to the bridge and for a shortcut to the bike immediately after crossing.

Assuming you mean this, yeah, it's one of the first things I did when coming back to BH.

I tried it with the Nico and it seemed to be the same time, but getting the saloon is marginally riskier, so I guess I'll stick with the Nico from now on.

Quote:

- After getting the bike there is a minor shortcut to the processor. Instead of taking the long way around the mountain just drive along the hill next to the water.

Didn't know about this, it's a fun little 2 sec shortcut. Do you hold down the gas all the way or do you have to tap it to prevent it from going in the water? Because I do the latter.

Quote:

- In Greece 3 immediately after the bike jump there is a small dirt road bridge to the east. This saves at least 30 seconds driving to the airport.

If you mean this then yes.

Quote:

About Java 4 storm skip freezing: I am almost certain at this point that the freezing has nothing to do with the storm and everything to do with Roach Gunners.

The storm surely pushes the sprite/effects way up and then the game engine probably goes over the limit for something with all the enemies spawning + their projectiles as well. And the proc probably pushes it over the top. Although I wonder what's going on in the American desert...

Quote:

As far as a hypothetical SS goes with the strats I have now it should be smooth sailing from post jump Greece 3 all the way to the Siberia Shield Generator, which I dont really have a good strategy for mainly due to helicopter bug randomness. If several turn there machine guns on you all at once you can lose the VTOL in like 5 seconds.

Yeah, I'm still pretty uncomfortable there. It's all about killing the missile caps from far away as you zoom in and not getting stuck on the copter enemies.

Quote:

- One time while fighting the Siberia 4 process it just vanished but the bugs where still there. After checking and finding the portal still unopened, I start flying around looking for it. I finally found it floating 30 feet above the building where you get the nuke launch code.

This game is pretty screwed up.

Quote from leftysheroes:

- My strategy for java3/4 processors is fairly cautious. More aggressive attack lines/ not swapping to the zero would save 20-30 seconds here.

Why do you swap out for the zero? The only thing I can think of is that it's smaller and less likely to get hung up on a canyon outcropping or the proc shell, but that doesn't seems like it'd happen very often.

EDIT: Well, I finally got around to doing a good plane strat for the greece 1 shield tower. 25 secs vs. 40 secs for the croc tank, but much more difficult. I hate this and the java 2 gyro vs. shield tower strats because it's very easy to catastrophically fail. Lefty, for SS do you use plane/gyro for the first 2 shield towers?

[quote="leftysheroes"]
- In Greece 1 there is another path to the village with the motorcylce that doesnt take the road to the grenade bunker. If you go this way its a couple seconds faster to just keep the Nico's Supplies(as opposed to switching to the saloon.). You can also drive over mountains as a shortcut to the bridge and for a shortcut to the bike immediately after crossing.[/quote]

Assuming you mean this, yeah, it's one of the first things I did when coming back to BH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFaQJ6J0o60

I tried it with the Nico and it seemed to be the same time, but getting the saloon is marginally riskier, so I guess I'll stick with the Nico from now on.

[quote]- After getting the bike there is a minor shortcut to the processor. Instead of taking the long way around the mountain just drive along the hill next to the water.[/quote]

Didn't know about this, it's a fun little 2 sec shortcut. Do you hold down the gas all the way or do you have to tap it to prevent it from going in the water? Because I do the latter.

[quote]- In Greece 3 immediately after the bike jump there is a small dirt road bridge to the east. This saves at least 30 seconds driving to the airport.[/quote]

If you mean this then yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3iyYduXHUk

[quote]About Java 4 storm skip freezing: I am almost certain at this point that the freezing has nothing to do with the storm and everything to do with Roach Gunners.[/quote]

The storm surely pushes the sprite/effects way up and then the game engine probably goes over the limit for something with all the enemies spawning + their projectiles as well. And the proc probably pushes it over the top. Although I wonder what's going on in the American desert...

[quote]As far as a hypothetical SS goes with the strats I have now it should be smooth sailing from post jump Greece 3 all the way to the Siberia Shield Generator, which I dont really have a good strategy for mainly due to helicopter bug randomness. If several turn there machine guns on you all at once you can lose the VTOL in like 5 seconds.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm still pretty uncomfortable there. It's all about killing the missile caps from far away as you zoom in and not getting stuck on the copter enemies.

[quote]
- One time while fighting the Siberia 4 process it just vanished but the bugs where still there. After checking and finding the portal still unopened, I start flying around looking for it. I finally found it floating 30 feet above the building where you get the nuke launch code.[/quote]

This game is pretty screwed up.

[quote="leftysheroes"]
- My strategy for java3/4 processors is fairly cautious. More aggressive attack lines/ not swapping to the zero would save 20-30 seconds here.[/quote]

Why do you swap out for the zero? The only thing I can think of is that it's smaller and less likely to get hung up on a canyon outcropping or the proc shell, but that doesn't seems like it'd happen very often.

EDIT: Well, I finally got around to doing a good plane strat for the greece 1 shield tower. 25 secs vs. 40 secs for the croc tank, but much more difficult. I hate this and the java 2 gyro vs. shield tower strats because it's very easy to catastrophically fail. Lefty, for SS do you use plane/gyro for the first 2 shield towers?

leftysheroes

Edit history:

leftysheroes: 2011-03-21 11:25:20 pm

leftysheroes: 2011-03-21 11:18:26 pm

leftysheroes: 2011-03-21 11:09:13 pm

2011-03-21 10:51:11 pm

Heres what I do for the shield generators.

GREECE: I kamikaze into it with the plane hopefully taking out at least 2 pods and finish it with the pistol. You can hit the pods safely if you stand at the base of the tower. Done well I think this is the fastest way to do it.

- JAVA: I use the bulldog. Optimal Gyrocopter is slightly faster but bulldog is much more consistent.

-AMERICA: UFO obviously!

-SIBERIA: I quickly take out a scorpion and then just bum rush it. If I get in trouble I pick up the health that the scorpion dropped. I probably should come up with a better idea for this.

As for swapping for the zero its to guarantee optimal storm skip. Most of the time I take at least some damage during the proc 3 fight. Overall my safe strsts combined will be 1-1.5 minutes slower than proper agreesive ones but greece 3 makes it necessary since doing that saves at least 5 minutes real time and probably closer to 7 or 8 minutes. Even with the "safe" strats it would not surprise me at all it 1000+ runs come to an end with Adam drowning in the river to the east of the atlantous temple since theses still so many ways for things to go wrong.

For the second greece 1 shortcut you can get througg without losing speed it you hit it at the right angle. If you plan to do greece all in one shot just do it the careful way. No point in adding a tricky 2 extra second saver to an already brutal level.

Finally, you said a while back that greece 2 jump was easy for you. I would like to know how you do it since I tend to suck pretty bad at it(50% success rate maybe slightly worse).

Heres what I do for the shield generators.

GREECE: I kamikaze into it with the plane hopefully taking out at least 2 pods and finish it with the pistol. You can hit the pods safely if you stand at the base of the tower. Done well I think this is the fastest way to do it.

- JAVA: I use the bulldog. Optimal Gyrocopter is slightly faster but bulldog is much more consistent.

-AMERICA: UFO obviously!

-SIBERIA: I quickly take out a scorpion and then just bum rush it. If I get in trouble I pick up the health that the scorpion dropped. I probably should come up with a better idea for this.

As for swapping for the zero its to guarantee optimal storm skip. Most of the time I take at least some damage during the proc 3 fight. Overall my safe strsts combined will be 1-1.5 minutes slower than proper agreesive ones but greece 3 makes it necessary since doing that saves at least 5 minutes real time and probably closer to 7 or 8 minutes. Even with the "safe" strats it would not surprise me at all it 1000+ runs come to an end with Adam drowning in the river to the east of the atlantous temple since theses still so many ways for things to go wrong.

For the second greece 1 shortcut you can get througg without losing speed it you hit it at the right angle. If you plan to do greece all in one shot just do it the careful way. No point in adding a tricky 2 extra second saver to an already brutal level.

Finally, you said a while back that greece 2 jump was easy for you. I would like to know how you do it since I tend to suck pretty bad at it(50% success rate maybe slightly worse).

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-22 07:45:39 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-22 07:41:58 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-22 07:41:04 pm

2011-03-22 07:39:29 pm

Jack of all Trades

Greece 1-2 test run:

Only big mistake was on the first proc. Also gotta keep the bike on the road a bit better after the little shortcut. And I can get into the first house a fraction of a sec faster if I jam into the house so I appear closer to the door. And I bumped the bike with the Nico. Also may want to test going up the side of the proc 2 island differently. Never really thought about it before. For all I know there's a seam you can just shoot up easily.

Java 3-4 route:

This has been the only strat that has let me get to the shield tower, and it was a close one! Usually during the cinema of the alpha-1 launching the save point I take massive damage but I got lucky here. I'm not sure if this would have ended as well if I had to actually kill the proc with several rockets instead of him just suiciding. Is this close to what you do lefty?

At 2:00 I would've turned earlier before the line of jellies but I was a little too far to the right to see my landmark (green dot on the radar on the other side of the shield wall).

Quote from leftysheroes:

GREECE: I kamikaze into it with the plane hopefully taking out at least 2 pods and finish it with the pistol. You can hit the pods safely if you stand at the base of the tower. Done well I think this is the fastest way to do it.

Faster than this?

25 secs from going through the hole to watching it blow up. Seems like killing the tower with a pistol would take awhile. I know the enemies can help, but the greece 1 bugs are pretty wimpy.

Quote:

Finally, you said a while back that greece 2 jump was easy for you. I would like to know how you do it since I tend to suck pretty bad at it(50% success rate maybe slightly worse).

You can watch the above greece1-2 run or this:

The trick is that as you approach you seem to see spikes on the shore. But as you get closer they fade away and you see a new little ledge to the right. You want to fall on that. Once you know where to hit you can do it every time since it's pretty generous, you can be to the right or left it doesn't matter. If you try to perfectly hit the tip you may just go over it and into the water. You can hit it by swerving into it from the right, but it doesn't seem to help much more than hitting the edges.

This could be a false memory, but I swear one time I got launched extra high and got to the island with 2/3 health remaining instead of the usual 1/2. Maybe I fell on the tip perfectly somehow. It'd only save like a sec or two, so meh.

Greece 1-2 test run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6xfipGU9ZI

Only big mistake was on the first proc. Also gotta keep the bike on the road a bit better after the little shortcut. And I can get into the first house a fraction of a sec faster if I jam into the house so I appear closer to the door. And I bumped the bike with the Nico. Also may want to test going up the side of the proc 2 island differently. Never really thought about it before. For all I know there's a seam you can just shoot up easily.

Java 3-4 route:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7FKBVUcJvM

This has been the only strat that has let me get to the shield tower, and it was a close one! Usually during the cinema of the alpha-1 launching the save point I take massive damage but I got lucky here. I'm not sure if this would have ended as well if I had to actually kill the proc with several rockets instead of him just suiciding. Is this close to what you do lefty?

At 2:00 I would've turned earlier before the line of jellies but I was a little too far to the right to see my landmark (green dot on the radar on the other side of the shield wall).

[quote="leftysheroes"]
GREECE: I kamikaze into it with the plane hopefully taking out at least 2 pods and finish it with the pistol. You can hit the pods safely if you stand at the base of the tower. Done well I think this is the fastest way to do it.[/quote]

Faster than this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8jSNioRx-g

25 secs from going through the hole to watching it blow up. Seems like killing the tower with a pistol would take awhile. I know the enemies can help, but the greece 1 bugs are pretty wimpy.

[quote]
Finally, you said a while back that greece 2 jump was easy for you. I would like to know how you do it since I tend to suck pretty bad at it(50% success rate maybe slightly worse).[/quote]

You can watch the above greece1-2 run or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ifafSRsa4

The trick is that as you approach you seem to see spikes on the shore. But as you get closer they fade away and you see a new little ledge to the right. You want to fall on that. Once you know where to hit you can do it every time since it's pretty generous, you can be to the right or left it doesn't matter. If you try to perfectly hit the tip you may just go over it and into the water. You can hit it by swerving into it from the right, but it doesn't seem to help much more than hitting the edges.

This could be a false memory, but I swear one time I got launched extra high and got to the island with 2/3 health remaining instead of the usual 1/2. Maybe I fell on the tip perfectly somehow. It'd only save like a sec or two, so meh.

leftysheroes

2011-03-22 09:15:03 pm

Okay for greece 2 I would hit the jump much closer to the pointer statue building, about 1 bike length to the left in fact. This is almost certainly faster than what you do but nowhere near as reliable. If you plan to segment after greece 2 then you will only have to make it once.

For Java 4 get into the middle of the map away from the shield wall instead of doing the u-turn later. You will spend less time getting zapped that way.

On a completely unrelated note I was testing to see what the fastest method(no Resonator) for taking out the final bosses first 2 arms. So what worked the best you ask, Plasma Bombs. Im actually not kidding apparently they are good for something, even if it is just comet speedruns.

marshmallow

2011-03-22 09:18:05 pm

Jack of all Trades

Guess I'll have to check that different Greece 2 jump later then. I just followed Bush's instructions. Cheesy

marshmallow

Edit history:

marshmallow: 2011-03-22 11:44:03 pm

marshmallow: 2011-03-22 11:42:47 pm

2011-03-22 11:41:48 pm

Jack of all Trades

Is this what you had in mind Lefty?

I'm guessing I could aim a little more to the right to get closer to the right part of the island, unless it messes up the takeoff. Or would aiming to the left be better? What I did in this clip is about 4 secs faster than my other one, so that's cool. It's funny too because I was about to give up and it just worked.

Oh yeah and I guess I was wrong about Bush's original directions, since he did say, "Take the motorcycle to the Talosus Statue, and ramp off the ground behind the statue..."

jack

2011-03-23 03:20:51 pm

I see it's coming along pretty nicely, well done. Are you going to include audio commentary in this run? Personally, I think it's in order because of the high amount of tricks and sequence breaking the run's going to have.

Keep it up!