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marshmallow: 2012-04-06 02:54:51 pm
marshmallow: 2012-03-15 05:35:53 pm
Jack of all Trades
Sorry, didn't see your edit.

Couldn't you just do segmented and roflstomp the game?

If not...the only reason I haven't yet is because of the jump and I really don't know how to do it at all. I'd even like to see a failed clip just to see how you approach it. You do it basically the same way everytime, right? The way you remember when you actually performed it in the past, I'd assume.
Willing to teach you the impossible
Quote from leftysheroes:
EDIT: After all the pain and aggravation of attempting to get the Greece jump on video(which still isn't over after 10 hours>:() I've pretty much concluded that its not feasible in a SS run. So my question would be; could a SS that skips that jump still be accepted given that the jump is probably something like a 1 in 150-400 shot and there is still 50 minutes of speedrun to finish afterwards.

If the trick is known by the verifiers and they know just how tough it is (I think I get the idea of how hard it is as I have been trying just about every trick mentioned in this thread), then they would most likely talk about it. A single trick being left out will not get a run rejected outright, but it does look bad. Like you said the run is REALLY long, so this can be looked over. Just have to realize that another runner might be stupid enough to come along and try and topple your run by adding it in (being how this game is, I dont see that happening... But I did it with Super C...). I recommend producing the best run you can and watch it a few days later and be your own critic. If you believe the run is strong then send it in.
Jack of all Trades
I'd still be willing to do this but the Greece jump is a problem. I'm not really feeling the urge to sit down for like 8 hours in order to figure it out without a reference, either.

Lefty, if you're still out there, are my fail attempt videos I posted earlier in the thread similar to how you approach the jump? Could I actually pull it off with what I was doing?
Quote from marshmallow:
I'd still be willing to do this but the Greece jump is a problem. I'm not really feeling the urge to sit down for like 8 hours in order to figure it out without a reference, either.

Lefty, if you're still out there, are my fail attempt videos I posted earlier in the thread similar to how you approach the jump? Could I actually pull it off with what I was doing?

I have never made the jump without lining myself up before backing into position. Even then you can do the same thing 10 times and get 10 different results.  I would line it up and then back up the hill. If done quick it takes like 15 seconds and it IMO increases your chances of making the jump from practically impossible to very improbable which I'm sure isn't very comforting.
If I can get my NTSC version working I will probably get back to learning this game, otherwise I might re-route it for PAL. The Greece jump is pretty stupid, each time I get it I feel like "Oh I know what I did differently this time so it should work better now" then I'll try again and fail a whole bunch, The only consistently helpful thing I found is try and flick left right before the edge.
Jack of all Trades
A challenger appears?
I guess so, I had been trying this out for a few months and then realised how screwed I was using the PAL version, so tried to get the NTSC copy working (which finally started working today not sure why).
Unfortunately because the PAL copy is stupid and project64 doesn't have collision I still haven't gotten any further then USA, and from my practice today I've clearly forgotten/got worse at a lot.
I'm largely comfortable with all the tricks, bar greece jump, up to Siberia though. Hopefully I will get some streaming up with it too but I need to work on Java 3-4 mostly the proc kills, it'd be awesome if you guys started trying attempts again, i'm trying to work on the greece jump to make it more bearable but nothing as of yet.

Also I apologise for that mess of tangents and odd sentences was just kind of saying what came to mind in not particular order
I just did a SS playthrough sans Greece3 just to see where I was at. It wasn't the prettiest thing in the world but the fact that I made it all the way to Scorpio(who roflstomped me because I didn't remember how to fight him) was very surprising. Most of the tricks are really easy for me(seriously that Goliath in Java 1 is my bitch always doing exactly what I want it to do).

Some things that I have noticed that may or may not be completely true.
- If a mutant is chasing you and you get to the processor it will back off.
- It seems that if you get far enough from an active Harvester wave it will deactivate(this seems to come into play for me on Java 2 in which the first wave can make a mutant real quick if you don't stop it but if you can get across the river where the roach gunners get blown up before it produces one it doesn't seem to ever end up producing one but maybe its just in my head.)
- If you lose the Alpha one in a boss fight and manage to finish the boss off with adam the game still warps you to the next level and gives you a new Alpha one(or Alpha two perhaps).
Edit history:
leftysheroes: 2012-08-10 11:40:29 pm
A somewhat difficult bike jump:

As far as how I set it up, I did the exact thing using this video as a guide and it took me 34! attempts to make it again. I'm sure its possible to make it driving down the hill but if you do it quick(and not take forever like me since this was literally my second attempt in a recording session) it only costs 30 seconds of extra time which I believe is a fair trade for your sanity.

Here's what I do to lure the Goliath in Java 1. Its really fast and 100% reliable.

After a lot more attempts on the Greece 3 jump I'm convinced that its easier on PAL which is annoying since the other drawbacks make it pointless but anyway. That's a nice set up I'll give it a try later on, interestingly I had been aiming the other way and getting the jump height 40-50% of the time just at the wrong angle.
As for the Java 1 trick I thought I'd post up my set up, its only slightly faster though and more like 70-80%. (also this particular clip is poorly executed because I was still messing with my capture card which is acting up)

I also found what I think is a new glitch, from what I remember it wasn't mentioned anywhere in this thread at least. It only saves a few seconds and ATM I don't fully understand how it works but essentially you can enter a door without leaving the vehicle. I'm going to try and work mupen to see how exactly its working but I think you need to press down-c on the same frame you collide with the door.
I was aware of your method for Java 1 but I would have issues with the Goliath getting stuck on the buildings, and its much easier to accidently kill it with the machine gun on the jeep. I will practice it some more but for a SS that will presumably include the Greece 3 jump I will want a strategy for that which is guaranteed even if it costs a little bit of time.
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2012-08-11 07:08:47 pm
marshmallow: 2012-08-11 07:08:11 pm
Jack of all Trades
Since we're probably going to be each other's verifiers, what do you guys think about segmented timing? The game auto-saves during the red transition screen between levels so if a runner were to turn their system off during the intro cinematic of the next level they could maybe save time compared to waiting for Adam to come out, pausing, and then exiting from the menu. That might be an unfair trick compared to a SS. I don't know if there's some sort of SDA rule or convention about this.

For Java, after killing the last proc, do either of you get the plane through the shield portal to the shield tower? Or do you ditch it for the kubelwagon and drive to the gyro like I do? I never tried but I thought about it recently when reviewing videos. The portal seems off center from the road and the plane is really fat so I kinda think not, but I want to make sure.



Seeing a video after all this time is like finding the holy grail. You got the collision damage too.

Another thing on my to do list would be to check out that America trick you mentioned awhile back.


My java goliath boost strat is the same as yours except I turn the jeep parallel to the shore at the last moment, seems to help. Or maybe not.

I did have that instant door use thing happen to me a long time ago, I have a clip of it too but I never uploaded it for whatever reason. Only difference is mine happened accidentally and I parked the car at an angle to the door so I didn't immediately hop back inside when I exited the building. I could never get it to work again so I figured it wasn't worth worrying about too much.

I experienced another weird Greece 1 thing after I killed the proc. As I went into the next area one of the dialogue boxes from your partner didn't stop the action like usual, so I just kept driving along with it up. The dialogue box started to appear right before the cinema for the save point launch. So that would save like...0.1 seconds.

I'll ask you some questions that I never figured out:

- Do you kill the java 2 proc with jeep grenades to the face and kill him super fast like lefty said he does? Because I never got that to work. I might suck though.

- Did you ever figure a way to easily run up the ice lake shore in siberia 3 instead of doing the (imo) difficult seam walk up the temple thingy on the east side of the lake?
Edit history:
Rueake: 2012-08-11 07:19:15 pm
It is possible to get the plane through the shield and its what I tend to do, occasionally it likes to be awkward in which case I give up after 2-3 tries.

I personally kill proc 2 with jeep's machine gun but that's mainly because I just always figured the nades were useless

The problem with that dialogue glitch is you need to be further behind to get the dialogue to freeze, I think its about 3 seconds behind, unless you mean something different to what I'm thinking that is.

Finally I'm not sure what you mean about the segmented idea, the intro sequence replays every time you load, I think I maybe misunderstanding
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2012-08-11 07:53:05 pm
marshmallow: 2012-08-11 07:36:50 pm
Jack of all Trades
Timing would be real time because BH's clock is horrible.

The timing wouldn't start until character control begins, which is after the level intro cinematic. If I skip the cinema in the previous segment by resetting or turning off the N64 I can make sure the cinema wouldn't count for either segment. Pretty cheap though.

Time for old clips that have been sitting on my hd for a year.

Here's the dialogue glitch. Didn't seem to be particularly slow.

Greece 1 insta-door:

Siberia 3 door trick. Known but I don't think I ever made a clip of it. Can be done earlier too.

Is this a good way of navigating the comet city after the wall jump?

About the Java 2 proc: If you can hit it in the head with a grenade(hand thrown or jeep launched) it will remove like half of its life bar. This is pretty hard to do so I also generally use the machine gun to but I believe it is possible to charge it with the jeep firing grenades and get lucky and kill it in like 2 seconds. I never actually tried it but its possible that grenades may work pretty well against the Java shield generator to. You would have to find a place where you aren't under constant fire though.

The post-jump comet jump is the same route that I do.

Getting the zero it through the portal to the Java generator is way easier than you would expect it to be.

I'm not sure which America trick you are refering to. I remember doing this thing where I was trying to jump/bounce over the fence in America 1 with the hotrod to skip knocking it down with the dumptruck and while I did pull off some crazy jumps bouncing off of houses and shit I never actually got over it. I tried getting the helicopter by the two cacti since you said someone on gamefaqs said it was possible but I never came close.

There is one more thing that I attempt from time to time if you guys want to try it to. In the area of the alien city before you go into the main area and activate the force fields trapping you in I think that it may be possible to use the terrain to rampjump the Alpha 1 into the path leading to the hivemind. After doing this you could theoretically use the glitch through gates trick to get to the savepoint and then reload and fight the final boss thus skipping the engines/Black Adam fight.

Jack of all Trades
Quote from leftysheroes:
Getting the zero it through the portal to the Java generator is way easier than you would expect it to be.

You wouldn't have a zero unless you switched out though, you'd have the bigger red plane from the airfield in the previous level (where you go up the big hill).

Do you kill the tower with the plane? After the proc and storm my health is usually almost gone so I'd think I'd ditch it anyway so the tower doesn't kill me.
I use the gyrocopter on Java 3 proc since there eliminates the chance of getting hung up on the stupid turret things. I then switch to the zero in Java 4. The gyro is actually faster than the big red planes so that makes up some of the time lost from switching. It doesn''t really take that much time to switch out for the zero anyway so I'm guessing that it is maybe 10 seconds slower than taking out both proc's with the red plane. 

I switch to the bulldog since its safer. I'm not sure why but I Roach Gunners just hammer me when I use the gyro and I almost invariably end up having it blow up(I can sometimes finish off the SG on foot by using it as cover).
Heres a video of how to avoid spawning a gazillion enemies when traveling to/jumping the acid river in the Alien Comet.

The strategy I use here is for SS considerations. The only difference is that I would get the resonator from the crystal by the river to make sure I get some. In a segmented you can ignore it and luck manipulate getting the pickup from the crystal in the river. Some other points:
- If your fast jumping the wall you can actually skip killing the first suppressor. You have to be really quick setting up the trick on the other side though.
- The flying things that I kill immediately before jumping can be ignored in a segmented. Just hope you get lucky and they leave you alone.
- In theory, 3 resonator ammo should be enough for the whole comet stage. With a little luck you can kill the dark alpha one by whittling half of its health off with fragcannon and then finish it with one resonator. The other 2 would be used to knock off the final boss' first set of arms. For SS I will probably have to use 2 for a hopefully guaranteed quick kill on the dark alpha one and save the third to probably save my ass at some point in the alien city while destroying the engines. I would use plasma bombs on the final boss' first phase.
Edit history:
leftysheroes: 2012-08-22 04:04:11 pm
leftysheroes: 2012-08-22 11:05:07 am
leftysheroes: 2012-08-22 11:03:55 am
EDIT2:  I don't know whats going on with the Siberia Tower now. I was practicing it last night and trying to find a consistent way to fight it and was experimenting with approach lines that would hopefully let me take out some of the helicopter things before starting to attack the tower since they are the main problem and for some reason the enemies didn't spawn when I flew in from ENE. Naturally I retried the fight several times to see if it was just a fluke and I didn't count the attempts but it was at least 15 and it worked every time. At that point I just reloaded again and rushed the tower like normal and got mugged by a bunch of pain in the ass helicopter things like I usually do.

Today, I did a run through the game and I get there and use my awesome new strategy and it doesn't work. I get attacked like usual and die since I wasn't really ready for it. At first I thought that I took a bad line so I played through Siberia a few more times. Same thing except I managed to take tower down a few times since the attack didn't catch me off guard this time. After doing this I went to the practice file that I had for fighting the Siberia Tower and I try it out on that file and at first it seems to work but then I just started flying around the whole area and NOTHING HAPPENS. NO ALIENS! Nothing. I then reloaded and just rushed the tower. Same thing.

Anyway, I decided to time exactly how long you get between finishing off the Siberia Proc and the destruction of your base if you ignore the Hoveros' and you get 3 minutes. The boss fight along with the cutscenes of the tower exploding/base landing and changing into fight mode/boss destruction will probably use up at least two of those minutes which means that there is likely no alternative to bumrushing the tower and hoping for the best with the aliens since any conservative strategy will most likely result in game over before you defeat the boss.
Anyone still working on this?

Willing to teach you the impossible
Ya, it has been a while...
I've actually picked this back up and have found a possible alternate route for Greece 3

This is almost certainly slower but the trade off for consistency is probably worth it. The initial trick to get up the cliff is a little strange to get used to but in the short time of testing things I've got fairly consistent with it. At the end I show that you can get across with the bike, with practice I think it'll be fairly easy and there's the back up if needed.
I'm still learning Siberia because apparently I was lazy before and I found some small tricks that I think are new but I'm not 100%
The Siberia tricks are known.

Did you check to see if beating the proc opens up the plane hanger on the south island?
Yea unfortunately they stay locked.
As far as I can tell it is how we believed, they only unlock after going to the pilot