Bioshock Infinite - Modern Day Speedrunning!?

2015-06-09 07:50:44 am

Oh man, more skips like this could shake things up for this game haha

Imagine skipping a plenty of cutscenes *_*

If any of you guys are familiar with game programing stuff, I have a request. Is there a way to look the values on the gear boxes while you do certain actions in places other than the room where the gear box is in?

I have a theory that the gear pool inside the box changes according to movement, or ammo comsuption, or even HP percentage. I say that because during all my attempts in the past, one thing was clear to me: I got the same gear (non-HRH, let's call it X) many and many times in a row (after reloading the game) during a certain attempt. In the next attempt I got the gear Y more times than any other. Another attempt and gear Z appears more....and so it goes. It really intricates me that I have such a good luck to get the same gear X, Y or Z many and many times in a row during the same attempt!

This definitely needs better looking for those who can Smiley

RealLink

Edit history:

RealLink: 2015-06-09 08:25:06 am

2015-06-09 08:04:42 am

I think someone here tried looking up values with cheat engine, but didn't find anything interesting as far as I remember. The most useful thing I could think of is somehow unlocking the dev console, if thats even possible, to do some testing.
It's a modern game though so I would assume there is no need to use values like that to generate random numbers, but who knows.

e: Thanks hummeldon for making a video Smiley

hummeldon

Edit history:

hummeldon: 2015-06-09 10:22:00 am

2015-06-09 08:59:24 am

No problem! It's a really fun skip. Any cutscene skips are a win in my book.

For the gear box thing, I watched a bunch of different videos just to see the differences in HP and when they got HRH

Teliot's WR run: 3rd try and HP was below half
Ferret's 2:06:36 run: 1st try and HP was full
My 2:07:16 run: 1st try and HP was full
Stoic's 2:02:15 run: 1st try and HP was full
Ferrets's 1:57:38 run: 12th try and HP was below half
Heny's 1:55:14 run: 7th try and HP was below half
Pentaleks' 1:58:19 run: 1st try and HP was below half

As you can see it appears that most of the 1st try attempts I watched also had full HP. I want to believe so badly. I kept watching videos until I saw an attempt with 1st try and below half HP just to prove this wrong. To further disprove this I'd want to find a video that took many tries while having full HP. As of right now I'm convinced the videos I watched just got very lucky when they happened to grab the whiskey. If this isn't the case and drinking that whiskey actually gives you a better chance at getting HRH than that would be amazing. But I'm skeptical.

EDIT: Ok, Heny's first run 2:42:22 takes around 30 minutes for HRH and his HP is full. So HP probably doesn't have an effect.

No problem! It's a really fun skip. Any cutscene skips are a win in my book.

For the gear box thing, I watched a bunch of different videos just to see the differences in HP and when they got HRH

Teliot's WR run: 3rd try and HP was below half
Ferret's 2:06:36 run: 1st try and HP was full
My 2:07:16 run: 1st try and HP was full
Stoic's 2:02:15 run: 1st try and HP was full
Ferrets's 1:57:38 run: 12th try and HP was below half
Heny's 1:55:14 run: 7th try and HP was below half
Pentaleks' 1:58:19 run: 1st try and HP was below half

As you can see it appears that most of the 1st try attempts I watched also had full HP. I want to believe so badly. I kept watching videos until I saw an attempt with 1st try and below half HP just to prove this wrong. To further disprove this I'd want to find a video that took many tries while having full HP. As of right now I'm convinced the videos I watched just got very lucky when they happened to grab the whiskey. If this isn't the case and drinking that whiskey actually gives you a better chance at getting HRH than that would be amazing. But I'm skeptical.

EDIT: Ok, Heny's first run 2:42:22 takes around 30 minutes for HRH and his HP is full. So HP probably doesn't have an effect.

penta

2015-06-09 10:32:38 am

Nobody ever did this I think (assuming everyone is sane around here): After getting HRH in the first few attempts, reload and keep trying to see if it appears easily again.

The repetition effect should be the same as other gears if the theory I'm thinking is plausible

hummeldon

2015-06-09 10:36:17 am

Ok, I think I understand what you mean. My only question is would this effect anything? I mean it would be interesting to know but I can't think of a practical use. I dunno if I can bring myself to grind for HRH only to reload but maybe I can muster the power to test your theory out when I get home from work!

penta

2015-06-09 10:37:56 am

Maybe it would prove that there are pre determined gears for each attempt based on something we don't know.

It sounds like a conspiracy theory. Fits well the game story though :p

hummeldon

2015-06-09 10:44:10 am

Haha, that's reason enough for me to test it I suppose!

161803398874989

2015-06-09 12:30:17 pm

MATHEMATICS

Quote from hummeldon:

Ok, I think I understand what you mean. My only question is would this effect anything? I mean it would be interesting to know but I can't think of a practical use. I dunno if I can bring myself to grind for HRH only to reload but maybe I can muster the power to test your theory out when I get home from work!

If we can find out what makes HRH more likely, we can potentially make strats that significantly cut the grinding for it.

Stoic_Squirrel

2015-06-09 07:45:53 pm

Quote from penta:

Nobody ever did this I think (assuming everyone is sane around here): After getting HRH in the first few attempts, reload and keep trying to see if it appears easily again.

The repetition effect should be the same as other gears if the theory I'm thinking is plausible

It's just anecdotal penta, but I did something similar and I noticed that when I would get HrH to spawn during testing, it sure seemed to show up more often. Maybe I'll do some crazy stuff and grind out some numbers on it..hmm

Stoic_Squirrel

Edit history:

Stoic_Squirrel: 2015-06-09 08:16:43 pm

2015-06-09 08:15:58 pm

Quote from hummeldon:

Yep, got it pretty easily. Shame you can't just go back and skip HoH like you mentioned.

EDIT: A rough timing shows it saves about a minute

EDIT 2: What would happen if you jumped to the area, somehow landed on a railing, turned around and jumped into the elevator? Seems like it would be almost impossible to do but I'm just theorizing.

EDIT 3: dammit, I manage to get a setup where I land on the railing but I accidentally ran off while trying to adjust.

I actually had the same idea before I read your post...I've managed to land right next to the elevator and jump back into it before the area fully loads, unfortunately you get an Infinite Death Loop when you fall out of bounds by doing this. Something similar happened when we were testing for Comstock Gate, we think it happens when the game has no spot to put you after falling off a ledge that is too tall. As a side note, it's fun listening to Booker and Elizabeth have their bee discussion outside the elevator :-)

Edit: Got so excited I double posted...heh

[quote="hummeldon"]Yep, got it pretty easily. Shame you can't just go back and skip HoH like you mentioned.

EDIT: A rough timing shows it saves about a minute

EDIT 2: What would happen if you jumped to the area, somehow landed on a railing, turned around and jumped into the elevator? Seems like it would be almost impossible to do but I'm just theorizing.

EDIT 3: dammit, I manage to get a setup where I land on the railing but I accidentally ran off while trying to adjust. [/quote]

I actually had the same idea before I read your post...I've managed to land right next to the elevator and jump back into it before the area fully loads, unfortunately you get an Infinite Death Loop when you fall out of bounds by doing this.  Something similar happened when we were testing for Comstock Gate, we think it happens when the game has no spot to put you after falling off a ledge that is too tall.  As a side note, it's fun listening to Booker and Elizabeth have their bee discussion outside the elevator :-)

Edit:  Got so excited I double posted...heh

hummeldon

Edit history:

hummeldon: 2015-06-09 10:28:10 pm

hummeldon: 2015-06-09 08:26:12 pm

2015-06-09 08:23:25 pm

Quote from Stoic_Squirrel:

Quote from penta:

Nobody ever did this I think (assuming everyone is sane around here): After getting HRH in the first few attempts, reload and keep trying to see if it appears easily again.

The repetition effect should be the same as other gears if the theory I'm thinking is plausible

It's just anecdotal penta, but I did something similar and I noticed that when I would get HrH to spawn during testing, it sure seemed to show up more often. Maybe I'll do some crazy stuff and grind out some numbers on it..hmm

I tried starting up a chapter from a save that got it first try and didn't have any luck getting it often that way. I know this is kinda the cheap way of doing it but I figured I'd try. My next option will be to grind runs until I get like a first try HRH and then test it out. That sounds so painful to do though.

Edit: Also, I've been noticing that my framerate hits a sweetspot or something when I have livesplit and obs recording. I seem to get the Neither Skip very easily now and I can climb the sticky wall for Soldier Field Skip much faster. I dunno if anyone else experiences this?

Edit: I wasn't really testing, but during a failed run I got the Vampire gear like 7 times out of like 4 minutes of grinding. Starting to think your theory is right.

[quote="Stoic_Squirrel"][quote="penta"]Nobody ever did this I think (assuming everyone is sane around here): After getting HRH in the first few attempts, reload and keep trying to see if it appears easily again.

The repetition effect should be the same as other gears if the theory I'm thinking is plausible[/quote]

It's just anecdotal penta, but I did something similar and I noticed that when I would get HrH to spawn during testing, it sure seemed to show up more often.  Maybe I'll do some crazy stuff and grind out some numbers on it..hmm[/quote]

I tried starting up a chapter from a save that got it first try and didn't have any luck getting it often that way. I know this is kinda the cheap way of doing it but I figured I'd try. My next option will be to grind runs until I get like a first try HRH and then test it out. That sounds so painful to do though.

Edit: Also, I've been noticing that my framerate hits a sweetspot or something when I have livesplit and obs recording. I seem to get the Neither Skip very easily now and I can climb the sticky wall for Soldier Field Skip much faster. I dunno if anyone else experiences this?

Edit: I wasn't really testing, but during a failed run I got the Vampire gear like 7 times out of like 4 minutes of grinding. Starting to think your theory is right.

teliot

Edit history:

teliot: 2015-06-10 08:37:19 pm

2015-06-10 05:04:08 am

That's a great skip. It looks like the hit detection isn't implemented quite as well on surfaces that are off the edge. Any other spots where this could work? I tried looking around Battleship Bay and Comstock's airship but couldn't find anything.

hummeldon

2015-06-10 06:44:20 am

I was trying to find something like that for Battleship Bay to skip to the upper level but I didn't have any luck.

RealLink

2015-06-10 06:51:53 am

The wall with the big Lady Comstock (?) Picture after you get the Necklace in Battleship Bay can be climbed, and you can even get OOB on top of the Arcade like that. Too bad we need to get HRH there >_>

hummeldon

2015-06-10 07:39:05 am

You know what's crazy. I was toying around with a cheat engine and you can fly from Soldier's Field to the First Lady's Aerodrome. Obviously there aren't any invisible walls we can use to just climb and run there. That'd be too glorious.

penta

2015-06-10 07:58:12 am

I'll share something Judgy told me about BioShock 1, it's a known trick. For those who don't know, theres a puzzle in the second level (Medical Pavilion) which remains the same as you first encountered if you close the game and open it again. That is used for consecutive attempts, so after each attempt you close the game and open again to make the puzzle stay the same.

So, he said that maybe the same happens for BioShock Infinite, and the seed of gears stay the same if you close the game and open again before doing another attempt.

hummeldon

2015-06-10 08:49:45 am

Thats cool. So if that would work we'd only need to get the good seed once and then before every attempt we would just exit to windows before starting a new game? Do you have a video example of what it is like in BS1?

Judgy

Edit history:

Judgy: 2015-06-10 09:09:52 am

2015-06-10 09:09:25 am

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

it's explained by BT here

So on the first play-through when starting the game from desktop the hacking is always a set pattern.

hummeldon

2015-06-10 06:37:05 pm

Quote from RealLink:

The wall with the big Lady Comstock (?) Picture after you get the Necklace in Battleship Bay can be climbed, and you can even get OOB on top of the Arcade like that. Too bad we need to get HRH there >_>

This is like. Disgustingly easy to do. It makes me wonder if there are other walls this easy to climb but we don't bother trying.

Stoic_Squirrel

Edit history:

Stoic_Squirrel: 2015-06-10 09:20:06 pm

Stoic_Squirrel: 2015-06-10 09:19:38 pm

2015-06-10 09:14:39 pm

If someone wants to try, I found it's possible to skip the parade cutscene right after the Welcome Center. You can jump onto the "air" where the bridge comes up and walk across before the parade floats come, but I can't figure out a way to do it w/o a trainer at the moment. Invisible walls stop you from getting on the bridge after triggering the parade, but , I think all the invisible walls spawn when you trigger the parade, so if we can figure out a way to not trip the parade trigger, it should be pretty simple to jump the gate and go across. Otherwise, we need to figure out a way to get above the walls and jump down.

hummeldon

2015-06-10 09:37:26 pm

I just had a run where Elizabeth was nowhere to be found after the final fight. Has anyone else had this happen? Luckily the run was bad anyway.

I don't really have an idea of how to not trigger the parade.

I also haven't had any luck at all with better HRH strats. It's extremely discouraging. Why is HRH so rare? It doesn't seem like it would be that useful in a casual setting so you'd think it would be one that would pop up a lot.

teliot

2015-06-10 09:50:13 pm

Yes I've had her disappear. I think Ferret has a recording of one.

Stoic_Squirrel

2015-06-10 10:03:14 pm

I have this theory that the gear are subject to weighted % chance. After running the game so much and testing so often, I feel like some gear appear more often than others. I wish I would have taken numbers to back this up, as I've spent more time than I'm happy to admit grinding that dumb gear to figure out it's secrets, and it really seems some gear are more common. For instance, some gears I feel I see more often are Vampire's Embrace (melee kills=health) and Fit as a Fiddle (revive=full health). These two gear have pretty straight forward effects and seem to be more common. A gear like HrH (delicious, 50% speed boost with shield break) does not seem nearly intuitive to a casual player. At first glance it seems to have a pretty weak effect, but veteran high difficulty casual players will attest its useful for running and hiding when their shield breaks on the Hard and 1999 modes, respectively. This effect won't be useful to a first time player on lower difficulty, and I feel that as a result it is less likely to appear. I honestly hope this isn't true, but again, I've ground out this gear so often in non-run situations, that I feel at this point the gear are weighted %. True, you can still get a godlike first try HrH, but the odds are so much lower then we think. Either that or the Devs had a thing for Twilight Kappa

I have this theory that the gear are subject to weighted % chance.  After running the game so much and testing so often, I feel like some gear appear more often than others.  I wish I would have taken numbers to back this up, as I've spent more time than I'm happy to admit grinding that dumb gear to figure out it's secrets, and it really seems some gear are more common.  For instance, some gears I feel I see more often are Vampire's Embrace (melee kills=health) and Fit as a Fiddle (revive=full health).  These two gear have pretty straight forward effects and seem to be more common.  A gear like HrH (delicious, 50% speed boost with shield break) does not seem nearly intuitive to a casual player.  At first glance it seems to have a  pretty weak effect, but veteran high difficulty casual players will attest its useful for running and hiding when their shield breaks on the Hard and 1999 modes, respectively.  This effect won't be useful to a first time player on lower difficulty, and I feel that as a result it is less likely to appear.  I honestly hope this isn't true, but again, I've ground out this gear so often in non-run situations, that I feel at this point the gear are weighted %.  True, you can still get a godlike first try HrH, but the odds are so much lower then we think. Either that or the Devs had a thing for Twilight Kappa

hummeldon

2015-06-10 10:27:26 pm

So do you think the gear is weighted to give you a better chance at HRH later in the game? Or do you think it's weighted based on difficulty?

Stoic_Squirrel

2015-06-10 10:38:37 pm

It's hard to say...I just feel some gear are more common than others, and I try to justify why based on what the casual player would interpret a good gear to be, regardless of difficulty. I've played through harder difficulty on purpose and still get similar gear results at the Arcade regardless.