Bionic Commando Rearmed

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2012-12-06 03:08:01 am

KennyMan666: 2012-12-06 02:48:26 am

KennyMan666: 2012-12-05 04:27:41 pm

KennyMan666: 2012-12-05 04:27:27 pm

KennyMan666: 2012-12-05 04:06:16 pm

2012-12-05 04:01:09 pm

Precursor

Alright, did my first full run with the gas and electricity skip. Was recording at first but when I failed at a grapple in the first FSA camp and fell down in the water I didn't feel like resetting so I just shut off the recording and kept playing to get a feel for about how long it would take.

And?

30-35 minutes realtime, 23:46.63 on the timer. I am not yet ready to call sub-23 possible, but we'll see... messed up one map movement, died in Furnace and Albatross, think I only had three trucks. Did the gas/electricity skip on the first try.

I have a handful of small things left to experiment with, but other than that, I think all that's left is pulling everything off in the same run now. Well, actually, I still need to figure out the smoothest path through the orange room of the Albatross. I have an idea I'm going to try out.

EDIT: Oh wow, my assumption of having to communicate was just wrong almost everywhere. Just made an experiment run. Communicating is not actually necessary in Areas 6, 7, 10 and 11, either... meaning that area 5 is the only stage where you actually need to enter the communication room. You need the proper communicator chips to actually enter the stages, though, so the route goes unchanged - but this saves a few seconds, at least.

Still need to completely figure out: Path through orange Albatross room, best way to minimize trucks.

Alright, did my first full run with the gas and electricity skip. Was recording at first but when I failed at a grapple in the first FSA camp and fell down in the water I didn't feel like resetting so I just shut off the recording and kept playing to get a feel for about how long it would take.

And?

30-35 minutes realtime, 23:46.63 on the timer. I am not yet ready to call sub-23 possible, but we'll see... messed up one map movement, died in Furnace and Albatross, think I only had three trucks. Did the gas/electricity skip on the first try.

I have a handful of small things left to experiment with, but other than that, I think all that's left is pulling everything off in the same run now. Well, actually, I still need to figure out the smoothest path through the orange room of the Albatross. I have an idea I'm going to try out.

EDIT: Oh wow, my assumption of having to communicate was just wrong almost everywhere. Just made an experiment run. Communicating is not actually necessary in Areas 6, 7, 10 and 11, either... meaning that area 5 is the only stage where you actually need to enter the communication room. You need the proper communicator chips to actually [i]enter[/i] the stages, though, so the route goes unchanged - but this saves a few seconds, at least.

Still need to completely figure out: Path through orange Albatross room, best way to minimize trucks.

KennyMan666

2012-12-06 02:47:57 pm

Precursor

Here's some ~~highlights~~ from my latest run attempt.

UraniumAnchor

2012-12-06 07:48:27 pm

Not a walrus

The one at 3:45 about made me choke on my dinner, thanks.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2012-12-11 01:33:51 pm

KennyMan666: 2012-12-11 07:51:35 am

KennyMan666: 2012-12-11 06:34:56 am

2012-12-11 06:32:07 am

Precursor

Sub-23 happened with major mistakes. Is recorded, compressing now, will upload to Youtube. Not sure exactly how the timer works but with the time I wasted in Area 10 alone I think sub-22 is within my grasp if I just can get a run where everything goes right.

Shiden

2012-12-14 07:41:16 pm

Quote from KennyMan666:

Here's some ~~highlights~~ from my latest run attempt.

Bloopers ftw.

KennyMan666

2012-12-18 05:56:53 am

Precursor

Hah, should have recorded the practice run I just did. 21:59.56.

So that should mean my final minute target is broken. Sub-22 is possible with a little leeway, ~21:30 is probably what I want to be going for. I can't see sub-21 being doable without skipping Power Claw.

ozzy88

2012-12-18 09:39:33 am

Should maybe grind out some parts and optimize them more if possible. Always good to get 100% sure about how you approach areas so that you are more confident at all times during full runs.

At least you are progressing and pushing down the times Smiley

Good luck ^^

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-01-20 03:34:53 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-01-19 02:11:37 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-01-19 01:54:40 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-01-19 01:35:54 pm

KennyMan666: 2013-01-19 01:30:09 pm

2013-01-19 08:29:46 am

Precursor

No updates on the any% yet (though playing challenge rooms taught me one thing. It won't save much time, we're talking perhaps half a second saved on some swings where it's doable, but...), but I spent some time today plotting and trying out a 100% route. With 100%, I mean getting all secrets and collecting all items, but are not including the challenge rooms you get in the neutral areas. Am including the BC Purple Matrix and BC Prototype Weapon, though.

So the route I came up with was this ("communicate" is included to remind myself of which stages you actually need to communicate in):

Area 13: Flares, extract
Area 15: Communicator chip, extract
Area 5: Yashichi, secret challenge 5, communicate, bazooka
Area 1: Communicate, yashichi, secret challenge 1, grenades
Area 4: Communicate, secret challenge 4, yashichi, plasma rifle
Area 14: Communicator chip, extract
Area 6: Yashichi, plasma upgrade, power claw
Area 3: Secret challenge 3, yashichi, permit
Area 2: Yashichi, secret challenge 2, grenade upgrade, shotgun
Area 16: Iron boots, extract
Area 19: Unlock tunnels, extract
Area 17: Communicator chip, extract
Tunnel 17-14: Secret dossier, extract
Area 9: Yashichi, vector cannon
Area 7: Secret challenge 6, yashichi, Joe
Area 18: Machine gun, extract
Area 7: Machine gun upgrade, extract
Area 8: Shotgun upgrade, communicate, communicate, yashichi, shin guards
Area 10: Vector cannon upgrade, yashichi, health recovery pills
Area 11: Yashichi, secret challenge 7, bulletproof vest
Area 12: Yashichi, Albatross
Tunnel 18-15: Helmet
Area 0: Revolver upgrade, purple matrix, extract
Albatross: Prototype weapon, bazooka upgrade, win game

Somehow, the playthrough, which was pretty horrible and had a lot of restarting stages and death everywhere, had one hour and seven minutes on the ingame timer, meaning sub-hour there is more than possible. After that, we'll see.

So, any comments on that route? I considered moving some areas around a bit, but in the end, I realized this should be the most efficient route. I would like to get the revolver upgrade first thing, but I don't think it would save any time - I have to return to area 0 to grab the Purple Matrix after getting all yashichis anyway.

EDIT: Actually, tweaked the route. It's better to do the tunnels earlier, when you're close to them. Unlocking them won't cost any extra time to come earlier. The one with the helmet can technically be done when you're going back to Area 0, but might as well pick up the helmet so that it might get some use in areas 7 and 10. And the best thing: Doing the tunnel with the dossier when you go to Area 17 anyway means you can just extract and not have to do the stupidly tricky swing back from that platform.

EDIT 2: My next project is to figure out what the hell the ingame timer actually counts, because I spent about one and a half hour on a 100% run with the old, slightly slower route, had a bunch of deaths and stupid trucks, and the insame timer for that ended up at 00:48:43.90. There's no way it counts map time, but I'm starting to suspect it doesn't count the overhead stages either.

EDIT 3: Apparently I was wrong about how the tunnels work. I thought that you only had to beat each tunnel stage once, but apparently that's not the case - you can only freely pass through a tunnel if you haven't visited another stage after clearing it. Meaning that while the tunnel with the dossier stays where it is, the tunnel with the helmet gets moved back to being moved through when heading towards Area 0.

No updates on the any% yet (though playing challenge rooms taught me one thing. It won't save much time, we're talking perhaps half a second saved on some swings where it's doable, but...), but I spent some time today plotting and trying out a 100% route. With 100%, I mean getting all secrets and collecting all items, but are not including the challenge rooms you get in the neutral areas. Am including the BC Purple Matrix and BC Prototype Weapon, though.

So the route I came up with was this ("communicate" is included to remind myself of which stages you actually need to communicate in):

Area 13: Flares, extract
Area 15: Communicator chip, extract
Area 5: Yashichi, secret challenge 5, communicate, bazooka
Area 1: Communicate, yashichi, secret challenge 1, grenades
Area 4: Communicate, secret challenge 4, yashichi, plasma rifle
Area 14: Communicator chip, extract
Area 6: Yashichi, plasma upgrade, power claw
Area 3: Secret challenge 3, yashichi, permit
Area 2: Yashichi, secret challenge 2, grenade upgrade, shotgun
Area 16: Iron boots, extract
Area 19: Unlock tunnels, extract
Area 17: Communicator chip, extract
Tunnel 17-14: Secret dossier, extract
Area 9: Yashichi, vector cannon
Area 7: Secret challenge 6, yashichi, Joe
Area 18: Machine gun, extract
Area 7: Machine gun upgrade, extract
Area 8: Shotgun upgrade, communicate, communicate, yashichi, shin guards
Area 10: Vector cannon upgrade, yashichi, health recovery pills
Area 11: Yashichi, secret challenge 7, bulletproof vest
Area 12: Yashichi, Albatross
Tunnel 18-15: Helmet
Area 0: Revolver upgrade, purple matrix, extract
Albatross: Prototype weapon, bazooka upgrade, win game

Somehow, the playthrough, which was pretty horrible and had a lot of restarting stages and death everywhere, had one hour and seven minutes on the ingame timer, meaning sub-hour there is more than possible. After that, we'll see.

So, any comments on that route? I considered moving some areas around a bit, but in the end, I realized this should be the most efficient route. I would like to get the revolver upgrade first thing, but I don't think it would save any time - I have to return to area 0 to grab the Purple Matrix after getting all yashichis anyway.

EDIT: Actually, tweaked the route. It's better to do the tunnels earlier, when you're close to them. Unlocking them won't cost any extra time to come earlier. The one with the helmet can technically be done when you're going back to Area 0, but might as well pick up the helmet so that it might get some use in areas 7 and 10. And the best thing: Doing the tunnel with the dossier when you go to Area 17 anyway means you can just extract and not have to do the stupidly tricky swing back from that platform.

EDIT 2: My next project is to figure out what the hell the ingame timer actually counts, because I spent about one and a half hour on a 100% run with the old, slightly slower route, had a bunch of deaths and stupid trucks, and the insame timer for that ended up at 00:48:43.90. There's no way it counts map time, but I'm starting to suspect it doesn't count the overhead stages either.

EDIT 3: Apparently I was wrong about how the tunnels work. I thought that you only had to beat each tunnel stage once, but apparently that's not the case - you can only freely pass through a tunnel if you haven't visited another stage after clearing it. Meaning that while the tunnel with the dossier stays where it is, the tunnel with the helmet gets moved back to being moved through when heading towards Area 0.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-01-20 07:28:01 am

KennyMan666: 2013-01-20 07:26:21 am

KennyMan666: 2013-01-20 07:25:23 am

2013-01-20 07:23:46 am

Precursor

Okay, I just did a test run to test the timer. To artificially inflate play time, I spent 10 minutes doing nothing in an overhead stage, and 5 minutes just flying back and forth on the map. The run took about 40 minutes realtime...

...and ended with a new personal best on the ingame timer, 21:43.26.

Which means that my verdict is that the ingame timer is stupid and should not be used for this game. It only counts time spent inside the actual sidescrolling stages, completely neglecting the overhead stages and map movements. So I'm just going to say that all Bionic Commando Rearmed runs should be manually timed, starting the timer when the helicopter starts doing its first movement away from Area 0 on the map and stopping the timer when the final platform is reached and control is lost in the Albatross escape.

...it does however hit me that this comes with a problem of its own since the Xbox 360 version of the game has longer loading times than the PS3 or PC versions. But still.

Okay, I just did a test run to test the timer. To artificially inflate play time, I spent 10 minutes doing nothing in an overhead stage, and 5 minutes just flying back and forth on the map. The run took about 40 minutes realtime...

...and ended with a new personal best on the ingame timer, 21:43.26.

Which means that my verdict is that [b]the ingame timer is stupid and should not be used for this game[/b]. It only counts time spent inside the actual sidescrolling stages, completely neglecting the overhead stages and map movements. So I'm just going to say that [b]all Bionic Commando Rearmed runs should be manually timed[/b], starting the timer when the helicopter starts doing its first movement away from Area 0 on the map and stopping the timer when the final platform is reached and control is lost in the Albatross escape.

...it does however hit me that this comes with a problem of its own since the Xbox 360 version of the game has longer loading times than the PS3 or PC versions. But still.

KennyMan666

2013-03-06 05:51:10 pm

Precursor

Got myself a 100% run clocking in at 1:07:14 today, though didn't bother to record or stream. Had some sloppy parts, the tunnel sections don't like me at all, but above listed route should be the best one. Can't think of any way to improve it, unless I can figure out exactly how the trucks work. Managed to go without any trucks at all when heading to the Albatross after grabbing the Purple Matrix, so that was fun.

Sub-hour is probably possible, but don't quote me on that just yet...

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2013-05-17 05:41:48 pm

2013-05-17 05:41:36 pm

Precursor

With there now being a Rearmed 2 topic, I figured I might give a little update here.

That update is that I did some figuring out of the trucks, getting the amount of them in an any% down to two, and pushing the any% time down below 30 minutes. My current PB is 29:49.48, with a run I don't remember much of. I'm guessing my target should be 29:30-ish at the moment.

Figuring out of the trucks in the 100% route is a thing that hasn't been done yet, I ran into a ton of them during the 100% run I streamed today. But in general, I've figured out that if you start moving before the trucks have "spawned" on the map, sometimes you run into one because you're on top of the location where the truck started, and so you run into it before it has been moved to the position it actually was on on the map. At least, that's how I figure it works.

BagtheTea

2014-07-05 09:08:14 pm

Boom

I was not able to find this game on PB tracker (http://www.pbtracker.net/games) and I do not want to submit my horrible time and have it be the only one up there. Is there any other web page that is tracking records so I can see the best times (any% , 100%).

Id also like to know the difference between Xbox360 vs PC which would be load times vs the extra room in the Albatross (which is a pain).

Thanks for all the info LoF and KennyMan666 it has helped a lot.

BagtheTea

2014-07-05 09:41:00 pm

Boom

Found a possible time saver on the PC version (not confirmed on consoles).

Truck Skip / temp despawn

On the main map if you run into a truck and load into its mission then press start and return to main menu. Once you load back into game you will be back on the map screen and the truck is no longer there.

I did notice however! When in an Area mission if I 'Call for extraction' the next time I am on the map the trucks that were skipped/despawned are now back. (could cause loss of time) But you can use this method to skip them again.

The trucks did NOT respawn after completing a mission.

Still figuring out more as I go.

P.S.
Any new info on the power claw skip in Area 3 PLEASE post it. That skip is driving me insane.

BagtheTea

2014-07-21 02:39:20 pm

Boom

This is what I have been working on. (Any% 27:59 using live split) + PC version

I plan on putting up a cleaner run soon but we shall see how it goes.

Also the in game end of game timer reads 23:58 which we all know is useless.

Over all its a sloppy run with 3 or 4 deaths I think I can make sub 25 (using live split) but that will be the perfect run.

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-07-21 04:48:14 pm

PJ: 2014-07-21 04:47:48 pm

2014-07-21 03:24:46 pm

Is PJ

Nice progress!!

Edit: A few quick questions about your route:

Is it really faster to use revolver instead of rocket launcher for the area 3/10 boss? I thought he could be one-cycled with rocket launcher but I might be misremembering. Same question for area 9 boss. I thought it'd be faster to rocket launcher the final phase instead of making him charge. I've only fought him once so I don't recall if the battle has to be ended via charge in area 9, but I remember crushing him with rocket launcher in the area 5 fight.

I'm not sure if I like the beginning of area 9. Can that ceiling be grappled on? If so, it might be worth trying to look into a route that swings through there instead of walking underneath those first two guys. I may test later.

IIRC, it is possible to do the crusher section at the end of the first albatross room one cycle quicker. I remember testing it a lot my first time through and I'm pretty sure that's the case. I can test again if I ever play that far again. Haha. It is also possible to clip through elevators, which might be useful while descending. I don't think it'd save much time overall; I couldn't do it on the final elevator during the escape, so it'd only really save time on the first one where you have to aggro the soldiers. Not a big advantage.

Aside from those, the route looks good! Obviously there's mistakes but I'm just focusing on the route since you'll clean those up. Tongue

Nice progress!!

Edit:  A few quick questions about your route:

Is it really faster to use revolver instead of rocket launcher for the area 3/10 boss?  I thought he could be one-cycled with rocket launcher but I might be misremembering.  Same question for area 9 boss.  I thought it'd be faster to rocket launcher the final phase instead of making him charge.  I've only fought him once so I don't recall if the battle has to be ended via charge in area 9, but I remember crushing him with rocket launcher in the area 5 fight.

I'm not sure if I like the beginning of area 9.  Can that ceiling be grappled on?  If so, it might be worth trying to look into a route that swings through there instead of walking underneath those first two guys.  I may test later.

IIRC, it is possible to do the crusher section at the end of the first albatross room one cycle quicker.  I remember testing it a lot my first time through and I'm pretty sure that's the case.  I can test again if I ever play that far again.  Haha.  It is also possible to clip through elevators, which might be useful while descending.  I don't think it'd save much time overall; I couldn't do it on the final elevator during the escape, so it'd only really save time on the first one where you have to aggro the soldiers.  Not a big advantage.

Aside from those, the route looks good!  Obviously there's mistakes but I'm just focusing on the route since you'll clean those up.  :P

BagtheTea

Edit history:

BagtheTea: 2014-07-21 09:08:07 pm

2014-07-21 07:43:39 pm

Boom

Great tips and thank you PJ!

So I checked Area 9 and made a new rout that only involves me killing 1 of those grapple enemy's gonna practice it. As for swinging past the first 2, Id love to find a way but atm they block me on everything I try.

Also on the Boss in Area 9 I can take out the tracks in 2 rockets (1 track cycle shorter) which is amazing great idea! (I think I used to do that when I played this casually a few years ago)

YES! I can one cycle the Area 3 and 10 boss! (/faceplam) Thanks again PJ this will make a HUGE difference on my time.

** Update: Landed a 26:07 run when streaming. It was an ugly ugly run but these tips are making all the difference.

Again tho what is the World Record I want a target time to look at. (driving me crazy)

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-07-21 09:59:46 pm

2014-07-21 09:23:16 pm

Is PJ

Awesome! I'm glad they worked out. ^_^

I have no idea what Kennyman's PB is. I don't think anybody else runs this RTA (there are some beastly challenge-mode runners though), so I think his PB used to be "WR". He idles a lot on IRC; you could try asking him if you're there. Or I guess I could next time I see him.

I may try out some more things. I have a few ideas that might save time but I don't remember specifics very well for this.

Edit: Turns out my idea works. At least for area 2. Idk if it'd work on the area 11 boss or not.

BagtheTea

2014-07-22 03:12:03 pm

Boom

I had a feeling that boss could be one cycled. I have come so close but I never took that last hit so I could run there in time. I did however find out that you can get your claw inside his body (diagonal claw cancel + instant up hook) and you are able to shoot him from underneath. But I was always 1 shot away from the 1 cycle kill. (Maybe w/ practice and/or may never be viable).

I think its great your helping me out like this even though I know you do not like this game. Thank you much!

P.S.
This is the first game I have speed run (ran?) but I plan on doing a good(perfect) Any% run then move to BC nes. (The better game)

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-07-22 05:03:18 pm

2014-07-22 04:54:45 pm

Is PJ

Oh cool, I didn't know you could hit him from underneath. Nice!

I was trying a bit of stuff in area 9. The good news is that I found a pretty strong route through the level. The bad news is that my save file has iron boots so I'm not sure how it works without them. I'm too lazy to play up to area 9 while avoiding them, so I might just try to record the video anyways. I also found this weird thing with the boss door/gate/thing: http://imgur.com/1l5SpAD. Totally useless but pretty cool.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure about this anymore. The asshole that programmed this game gave the rocket launcher random velocity. Great job. I'm sure the strategy can still work but will require some adjustments based on the velocity your rocket decides to launch at.

BagtheTea

2014-07-22 05:17:21 pm

Boom

Yeah dude there are a few things that really bug me about this game that I noticed now that I am running it. My biggest problem is that a max range swing is the fastest but even if your aim is perfect the claw may or may not grab whatever you try and hook. (die a lot bc of this). You can see it best if you stand in one spot and claw a wall or ceiling then cancel it - dont move- claw the same spot (you can see it really well in the power claw skip attempts) but the hook does NOT hit the same spot every time even though you do not change your position. I have stood in one spot and tried to hook the edge of a ledge and it misses on the way up but catches it on the way back... like wtf.

And then yeah the rocket launcher has rng too.

In other words I am looking forward to getting on BC nes once I finish this any%.

PJ

2014-07-22 05:20:56 pm

Is PJ

Yea this game is pretty horrible. The physics have RNG. I wanted to test a few more things but I just cannot bring myself to play this game any longer. Haha. Sorry!

BagtheTea

2014-07-22 05:28:21 pm

Boom

LOL its cool I understand completely ty for the help so far!

I am sure you will see me on the BC nes forums within the next month or so.

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-07-22 06:17:40 pm

PJ: 2014-07-22 06:15:18 pm

PJ: 2014-07-22 06:04:06 pm

2014-07-22 05:33:09 pm

Is PJ

Oh just one quick thing: you don't have to pull the cement block at the start of area 7. You can just go a grapple cancel to get the hop thingy and then swing over the top of it. It is clunky as hell because this game's grapple is bad, but it does work.

Edit: Found an improvement for area 10 boss.

BagtheTea

2014-07-22 06:22:45 pm

Boom

DAAANG you keep doing things that make me say "Why didnt I think of that!"

Nice 1 again!

Are you sure you dont wanna just run this?

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2014-07-22 06:55:45 pm

2014-07-22 06:26:16 pm

Is PJ

Trust me, I definitely do not want to run this. Haha. This is painful. The reason I'm looking into all this route revision now is so that someone else can run it instead of me. Tongue

I just don't want to look at the finished run and see all these improvements, because that'll tempt me to run it myself.

Edit: Making video of elevator skips.