Big Nose the Caveman (NES)

2013-01-15 02:31:59 pm

Anyone ever hear of/play this game? I tried running it a few years ago for TG but didn't really have a proper setup to do the recording and ended up losing motivation. I've briefly looked around and found the following video showing what appears to be the fastest time (TAS) achieved (24:37.8):

From a speed running perspective this game is fairly simple. The fastest path through each level is very obvious. Some levels give you a choice of going underground or staying above, and that's about as complicated as it gets. Outside of boss fights and shop sequences the vast majority of runs will be nearly identical time-wise. Buying items at shops can add anywhere from fractions of a second to over a second based on the items being purchased, and can save multiple seconds during some fights. I'm not yet sure if there's room for improvement over the choices made in the video above.

While I won't be able to defeat bosses and navigate the shop menus quite as fast as the TAS, I'm confident that I can shave at least a minute off of that time due to some level warps that I've found that don't appear to be documented anywhere online (as far as I can tell). I'm in the process of looking for more of these warps and other glitches to assist in a better time.

Before I spend any more time on this, I'd like to know if this game should even be considered "runnable"? As I said above, outside of boss fights and shop sequences, I don't see there being any variation in strategy for the actual levels themselves (although getting through every one of them mistake free would certainly be difficult). Every level does in a boss fight, so that's 20+ opportunities for mistakes because I doubt any human could handle them as quickly as the TAS above without taking a single hit (which would more than likely kill the run). I suspect runs will be mighty boring to watch. I'll probably end up finishing my work regardless, just for fun, but I wanted to see if there would be any interest from the community for a run of this game.

Thread title:

Anyone ever hear of/play this game?  I tried running it a few years ago for TG but didn't really have a proper setup to do the recording and ended up losing motivation.  I've briefly looked around and found the following video showing what appears to be the fastest time (TAS) achieved (24:37.8):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8uvRU0QfZs

From a speed running perspective this game is fairly simple.  The fastest path through each level is very obvious.  Some levels give you a choice of going underground or staying above, and that's about as complicated as it gets.  Outside of boss fights and shop sequences the vast majority of runs will be nearly identical time-wise.  Buying items at shops can add anywhere from fractions of a second to over a second based on the items being purchased, and can save multiple seconds during some fights.  I'm not yet sure if there's room for improvement over the choices made in the video above.

While I won't be able to defeat bosses and navigate the shop menus quite as fast as the TAS, I'm confident that I can shave at least a minute off of that time due to some level warps that I've found that don't appear to be documented anywhere online (as far as I can tell).  I'm in the process of looking for more of these warps and other glitches to assist in a better time.

Before I spend any more time on this, I'd like to know if this game should even be considered "runnable"?  As I said above, outside of boss fights and shop sequences, I don't see there being any variation in strategy for the actual levels themselves (although getting through every one of them mistake free would certainly be difficult).  Every level does in a boss fight, so that's 20+ opportunities for mistakes because I doubt any human could handle them as quickly as the TAS above without taking a single hit (which would more than likely kill the run).  I suspect runs will be mighty boring to watch.  I'll probably end up finishing my work regardless, just for fun, but I wanted to see if there would be any interest from the community for a run of this game.

LackAttack24

Edit history:

LackAttack24: 2015-03-26 05:50:54 am

2014-05-21 11:17:48 pm

I've started to run this game. First completed attempt was 38:21 with 4-5 deaths. I wrote down which shops are "best" to go to without any advanced routing. These are the shops that come up on the map, no in-level shops.

1: Right - Extra Life (15)
2: Right - Extra Life (15), Invincible (12)
3: Left - Extra Life (18), Invincible (15)
4: Right - Extra Life (18)
5: Right - (not sure what's here yet)
6: Right - Extra Life
7: Left - Extra Life (18), Invincible (15)
8: Middle - Invincible (18)
9: Middle - Invincbile (18)

What needs to be done:
-Figure out what's in each shop.
-Figure out number of bones in each level (not from enemies)
-Find other warps
-Determine best spells to buy and use.

At this point, most bones are used for extra lives. Less dying would mean more spells (i.e. Light Spell) to quickly kill bosses. That's all for now, more to come!

darbian

2014-05-22 05:15:13 pm

I did some work on this last year.

My strategy was to load up on upgrades early and never die (a death would almost always be a reset unless it was close to a shop where I could get some essential upgrades back). I have 3 sets of notes, but they're kind of a mess and appear to contradict themselves. I do think I have all the shop items listed though (but not with prices, unfortunately). I'll try to add that info to this thread in the next couple of days.

The upgrades I always tried to get were auto club, fast club, fast stone, double club, power stones and hard feet.

Have a few instances where I buy invincibility (probably when light spell isn't available).

I only know the location of 2 warps: 1-4 (somewhere in the trees near the beginning) and 2-3 ("fall in pit at beginning" - that's all my notes say). I think I put the game on hold until I knew where all the warps were.

Outside of the normal use of light spell on bosses, I do have a level where I use float and jump spells as well:
"4-2
Possibly try jump spell here, saves ~5 seconds
Use float at beginning"

I recall using jump spell at one point in the level to get on an elevator faster.

I don't have a PB yet since I was never able to finish a run.

I did some work on this last year.

My strategy was to load up on upgrades early and never die (a death would almost always be a reset unless it was close to a shop where I could get some essential upgrades back).  I have 3 sets of notes, but they're kind of a mess and appear to contradict themselves.  I do think I have all the shop items listed though (but not with prices, unfortunately).  I'll try to add that info to this thread in the next couple of days.

The upgrades I always tried to get were auto club, fast club, fast stone, double club, power stones and hard feet.

Have a few instances where I buy invincibility (probably when light spell isn't available).

I only know the location of 2 warps: 1-4 (somewhere in the trees near the beginning) and 2-3 ("fall in pit at beginning" - that's all my notes say).  I think I put the game on hold until I knew where all the warps were.

Outside of the normal use of light spell on bosses, I do have a level where I use float and jump spells as well:
"4-2
Possibly try jump spell here, saves ~5 seconds
Use float at beginning"

I recall using jump spell at one point in the level to get on an elevator faster.

I don't have a PB yet since I was never able to finish a run.

LackAttack24

2014-05-22 07:59:13 pm

Awesome, thanks darbian. I would usually just load up on extra lives since I would die a bunch. These are excellent additions/changes to my current strats. Obviously getting less extra lives would speed up the run, that will come with time in getting better in the current run.

I have some more warps for you. This is my run from lastnight: http://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24/c/4302970

(6:20) 2-1: jump off of the first top tree limb to the left.
(7:28) 2-3: jump in that pit you are speaking of.
(10:15) 2-6: jump high and left off of the first stump.

I didn't know about 1-4! I'll look for that.

darbian

2014-05-22 08:13:26 pm

Actually I might be mixing up 1-4 and 2-1 for the warp (sorry my notes are really bad). The description you have for 2-1 warp matches what I had pictured, so I don't think 1-4 has one (that I know of)

LackAttack24

2014-05-22 08:30:21 pm

OK cool. I'll continue to hunt for some more secrets and keep the post updated.

CarpetCrawler

2015-03-17 04:40:30 am

So I was supposed to be helping Lack route this game/find warps last May/June, but had to bow out due to some personal circumstances. I've kept meaning to get back to the game at some point. Decided to work on making some interesting goals for the game for an upcoming episode of SGL and happened to find a previously unknown warp on accident. Turns out darbian is unintentionally correct, and there's indeed a warp in 1-4. You have to jump through a certain part of the trees to create the warp. Here's a link: http://www.twitch.tv/carpetcrawlerdc/c/6339407

LackAttack24

2015-03-17 05:10:51 am

This makes me think that all 'woods' levels have a warp. I believe there are 6 total 'woods' stages, and this is the 4th warp found. There are potentially two more: one on Monster Island and one on Chaos Island. Great find!

darbian

2015-03-19 03:19:22 pm

I just watched the highlights in here, and my first post was right - I knew about 1-4 and 2-3. I didn't know about 2-1 and 2-6. This is interesting. I remember trying to mess with the FCEUX to find a way to reveal these warps. maybe a hitbox detector of some sort would do it? never written anything like that myself though.

LackAttack24

Edit history:

LackAttack24: 2015-03-25 07:22:34 pm

2015-03-25 07:13:36 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24/c/6396770

24:37 Deathless run.

Utilized the powerups in the first shop and held them for half the run. Bought them back and held them the rest of the way. Barring any other warps, this is a pretty solid run. Could use spells more efficiently also. I'm going to submit this to SDA soon. Thanks carpetcrawler and darbian for helping me put together the route with their findings.

The hitbox detector idea is interesting. The 'woods' levels theory still holds true. I jumped around with emulator and found the warp in 2-6. It figures that there are more warps to be discovered, hopefully in the underground stages.

LackAttack24

2015-06-15 08:08:04 pm

Found by twitch.tv/jeffXvX:

In 1-1, as soon you start, go right just until the first dinosaur appears. Then walk left and jump just to the left of the tree. In 1-3 destroy the first gray rock and the ground will shake. Destroy the next gray rock and you'll warp.

More are coming I think. Exciting stuff.

jeffxvx

2015-06-15 08:31:14 pm

There's kind of a trick for the 1-3 warp. For the second gray rock you need to move right until the left-hand side of the cliff has scrolled off the screen. Then face left and attack the gray stone from the left with your club.

Here's one more. In world 2-2, go to the right of the first gray stone, turn left and smash it. Again, you need to scroll the screen to the right a bit before doing this. This will warp you to the end of the level.

jeffxvx

Edit history:

jeffxvx: 2015-06-15 10:41:17 pm

jeffxvx: 2015-06-15 09:08:40 pm

jeffxvx: 2015-06-15 08:53:53 pm

2015-06-15 08:53:03 pm

Also, whenever you see a bone floating in the middle of a chasm in the ground, that's where you jump down to go underground. So all the undergrounds are marked. There's also some places where you can jump off the top of the screen and go into the clouds (sort of the reverse of going underground). I'm not sure if underground or clouds are always faster. This needs to be tested.

jeffxvx

Edit history:

jeffxvx: 2015-06-16 07:37:07 am

jeffxvx: 2015-06-16 07:34:50 am

jeffxvx: 2015-06-16 07:29:59 am

jeffxvx: 2015-06-15 11:34:46 pm

2015-06-15 10:39:19 pm

Warps discovered so far:
1-1 Go right until dinosaur appears. Go just left of tree and jump.
1-2 Basically same thing as 1-1
1-3 Destroy second gray rock for warp (need to move right until left-hand side of cliff is off-screen; update: you don't need to destroy first rock)
1-4 Jump right after getting on first tree limb
2-1 Jump off top tree limb of first tree to the left
2-2 go to the right of the first gray stone, turn left and smash it.
2-3 Jump into left-hand side of first pit with water that doesn't have turtles in it
2-4 ?
2-5 Jump left off bottom tree branch on second tree
2-6 Jump left off of tree trunk
2-7 ?
3-1 through end, none located yet

CarpetCrawler

2015-06-17 09:38:22 am

What a pleasant surprise!! I was always curious about the ground shaking rock in 1-3, and now I know it's actually the first step towards a warp. Extremely excited by all of these findings. Great stuff, jeffXvX!!

jeffxvx

Edit history:

jeffxvx: 2015-09-20 07:44:44 pm

jeffxvx: 2015-07-12 10:00:54 am

jeffxvx: 2015-07-12 10:00:30 am

2015-07-12 09:59:09 am

I finished routing Big Nose and found what is hopefully all of the skips. Also discovered a glitch that's useful for a few boss fights. Here's the info:

Note: Holding start during score-adding-up screen and traveling-the-island screens speeds it up.
1-1 Skip (Go right until dinosaur appears. Go just left of tree and jump)
1-2 Skip (Basically same thing as 1-1)
Hut screen, go directly to exit (on left side of screen)
1-3 Collect 2 bones from killing enemies and single stone power-up and then skip (Destroy second gray rock for warp (need to move right until left-hand side of cliff is off-screen))
1-4 Skip (Jump right after getting on first tree limb)
1-5 Autoscroller level, collect at least 13 bones and get double and triple stone power-up
Center hut, buy Light Spell
1-6 Helicopter level, collect at least 11 bones, use light spell on boss
2-1 Skip (Jump to the left off of top tree limb of first tree)
Right hut, buy power stones and fast club.
2-2 Skip (go to the right of the first gray stone, turn left and smash it)
2-3 Collect 2 bones and skip (Jump into left-hand side of first pit with water that doesn't have turtles in it)
2-4 In-level shop buy fast stoning and double club (you get to the in-level shop by not going down the first chasm in the level, but continuing right and then jumping off the top of the screen)
Hut screen, go directly to exit (on left side of screen)
2-5 Skip (Jump left off bottom tree branch on second tree; note: don’t let the tree scroll too far to the left before jumping)
2-6 Skip (Jump left off of tree trunk; note: don’t let tree stump scroll to far to the left before jumping)
2-7 Helicopter level, kill boss normal
Middle hut, buy light spell
3-1 Normal boss kill, but smash the rock right before the boss to get invincibility, which speeds up the kill a little bit because you can go right on top of the boss)
3-2 Use light spell on this boss
Hut on left, buy invincible
3-3 Skip (break the stone that is just before the boss fight)
3-4 Kill boss regular, use invincible spell so you can get right on top of the boss
Hut on right, buy light spell
3-5 Autoscroller level, kill boss with light spell
3-6 Helicopter level, kill boss normal
4-1 Kill boss normal
Hut on left, buy light spell
4-2 Kill boss with light spell
4-3 Kill boss normal (glitch: get pretty close to the dinosaur (there’s a particular spot you need to be in) and before his first fireball hits you, go to spell screen. You’ll see his fireball will go back towards him. Then exit the spell screen and you will be positioned such that the boss’s fireballs go right through you)
Hut on right, buy light spell
4-4 Kill boss normal (note that the lizards on this level walk right through you; glitch: when you get to the boss, if you’re firing while the screen auto-scrolls to the left, the bird will fly right through you; you should be able to kill the boss before the bird comes back)
4-5 Kill boss normal
4-6 Kill boss normal (glitch: jump like you’re about to land on the boss and then go to the spell screen and exit; you’ll land on top of him without taking damage and his fireballs go right through you)
4-7 Helicopter level, kill boss with light spell

I'll update as I tweak or find anything new.

Note: the glitches on the various bosses seem to only work on certain emulators. Will update when it's been tested on a cart.

I finished routing Big Nose and found what is hopefully all of the skips.  Also discovered a glitch that's useful for a few boss fights. Here's the info:

Note: Holding start during score-adding-up screen and traveling-the-island screens speeds it up.
1-1	Skip (Go right until dinosaur appears. Go just left of tree and jump)
1-2	Skip (Basically same thing as 1-1)
Hut screen, go directly to exit (on left side of screen)
1-3	Collect 2 bones from killing enemies and single stone power-up and then skip (Destroy second gray rock for warp (need to move right until left-hand side of cliff is off-screen))
1-4	Skip (Jump right after getting on first tree limb)
1-5	Autoscroller level, collect at least 13 bones and get double and triple stone power-up
Center hut, buy Light Spell
1-6	Helicopter level, collect at least 11 bones, use light spell on boss
2-1		Skip (Jump to the left off of top tree limb of first tree)
Right hut, buy power stones and fast club.
2-2		Skip (go to the right of the first gray stone, turn left and smash it)
2-3		Collect 2 bones and skip (Jump into left-hand side of first pit with water that doesn't have turtles in it)
2-4		In-level shop buy fast stoning and double club (you get to the in-level shop by not going down the first chasm in the level, but continuing right and then jumping off the top of the screen)
Hut screen, go directly to exit (on left side of screen)
2-5		Skip (Jump left off bottom tree branch on second tree; note: don’t let the tree scroll too far to the left before jumping)
2-6		Skip (Jump left off of tree trunk; note: don’t let tree stump scroll to far to the left before jumping)
2-7		Helicopter level, kill boss normal
Middle hut, buy light spell 
3-1		Normal boss kill, but smash the rock right before the boss to get invincibility, which speeds up the kill a little bit because you can go right on top of the boss)
3-2		Use light spell on this boss
Hut on left, buy invincible 
3-3		Skip (break the stone that is just before the boss fight)
3-4		Kill boss regular, use invincible spell so you can get right on top of the boss
Hut on right, buy light spell 
3-5		Autoscroller level, kill boss with light spell	
3-6		Helicopter level, kill boss normal 
4-1		Kill boss normal
Hut on left, buy light spell
4-2		Kill boss with light spell 
4-3		Kill boss normal (glitch: get pretty close to the dinosaur (there’s a particular spot you need to be in) and before his first fireball hits you, go to spell screen. You’ll see his fireball will go back towards him. Then exit the spell screen and you will be positioned such that the boss’s fireballs go right through you)
Hut on right, buy light spell
4-4		Kill boss normal (note that the lizards on this level walk right through you; glitch: when you get to the boss, if you’re firing while the screen auto-scrolls to the left, the bird will fly right through you; you should be able to kill the boss before the bird comes back)
4-5		Kill boss normal
4-6		Kill boss normal (glitch: jump like you’re about to land on the boss and then go to the spell screen and exit; you’ll land on top of him without taking damage and his fireballs go right through you)
4-7		Helicopter level, kill boss with light spell

I'll update as I tweak or find anything new.

Note: the glitches on the various bosses seem to only work on certain emulators. Will update when it's been tested on a cart.

darbian

2015-07-17 01:01:27 pm

Wow, jeff, amazing job with this game. Some really good info here. I'll add one minor time save that I remember from playing this game:

In 4-2 (it's a cave level, in case I'm off by one) there's a part where you have to wait on an elevator to take you to the top of the screen. I remember saving time by using Jump spell here so you don't have to wait the full cycle.