Beyond Good & Evil [locked]

2005-05-23 12:47:49 am

SSBM Fanatic

I'm downloading the run now.

Playing a run as if it was your first time is, in my opinion obviously, stupid. Who wants to watch someoone beat a game as if it was their first time? Why explore every room in Zelda 1's dungeons when they hold nothing important? That's basicly what you're saying.

Lightweight

2005-05-23 04:05:16 am

YAY! I'm seeing it as I write this.

Be on the lookout for my commentaries soon enough.

xeen

Edit history:

xeen: 2005-05-23 06:13:56 am

2005-05-23 06:11:58 am

@Liku: I didn't say that, read my post again.
@Radix: I just wanted to post as firefox crashed, damn. However, here in short: Yes, you should be able to read the code, regardless if it's only one frame. (and this doesn't mean that walking by is forbidden, but it should be readable if you do so).
So you need either to view the code completely in one frame, or all parts of it in more frames - so that you can click through each frame and note the code.
This maybe hard for some games as the quality is too low and/or the code written too small to be readable in the video. So it should be at least readable in the game - and verifying that is up to the verifier.
I think codes should be handeled like items, you need to grab them before using and cannot just create them with a cheat using the argumentation that you know the location of the item or the item itself. So, I think this example expresses exactly what I meant.
xeen

Gorash

2005-05-23 08:36:06 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Information is not created like items. In RPGs there's the term of player knowledge and character knowledge. If the developers are smart they change all the codes at game start to make it character knowledge. The basic stuff about the game (maps, enemy data, power up locations) is all player knowledge and is allowed to be used, so why not exploit the lazyness of the coder by using some stupid hardwired code every player knows by heart at his second play through? Is it cheating to know stuff about a game? In that case every run on this site is doomed.

Radix

2005-05-23 08:37:55 am

I'm addicted to games

Yeah... in the ff3 run he knows that sabin's first blist is left right left before being told. I'd better take it down!

xeen

2005-05-23 01:08:47 pm

@Gorsash: this is an explaination I can live with, but I still think it's stupid to skip that. (I won't comment any further as some guys [eg. Radix] find it funnier to make fun of me instead of writing an argumentated post, *why* they think my opinion is stupid...)

Liku

2005-05-24 05:55:15 am

SSBM Fanatic

Quote:

Well, you won't find the fastest routes playing the first time, but you (accidentally) *could* find them.

If the fastest route involves using a code ahead of time to get later in the game, it's impossible to find the fastest route whilst playing through the game a first time.

Your methodology of runs does not allow for sequence breaking. Without that, games[with it] remove ALL planning and critical thinking into making the run top-notch. Sure, there's some, but it would all come down to tricks.

xeen

2005-05-24 08:12:50 pm

Quote:

If the fastest route involves using a code ahead of time to get later in the game, it's impossible to find the fastest route whilst playing through the game a first time.

You could accidentally find the code shortest time possible and get using it in a short time too, I don't see the problem here.

However, regarding codes as items is a better example for what I mean. The explaination of Gorash is quite acceptable though I still think this is somehow skipping it. However this is somehow the same like skipping something (eg. door warping in that mario run) due a bug... though it's not really a game, it's by design...