Beyond Good & Evil [locked]

2005-05-08 04:13:33 am

Sleeping Terror

<rant>

"Smart" Bob SUCKS. I turned the sensitivity all the way down to 2, after noticing errors in the preview. I thought that was fine, but I found some small errors in the finished high quality video. They're pretty much unnoticeable at full speed, so I don't think I'll take the time to compress another one. But next time I'll be using a plain old "dumb" bob.

In fact, "smart" anything seems to suck. I've been seeing more and more errors with various smart deinterlacers that I once thought worked well.

You know what else sucks? Audio desync. I set up AviSynth to reduce the video dimensions for the low quality encoding, and the audio is way off in the result. Why the fsck should the audio be desyncing? How hard can it be to keep the audio and video frames matched together properly?

</rant>

Lightweight

2005-05-08 05:41:58 pm

That's why I record on VHS and let the others deal with the problems later. Grin

Excelent time, BTW.

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-08 08:30:31 pm

Sleeping Terror

Oh, I think I've gotten it figured out now. And I'd rather solve problems myself than depend on others.

Fieari

2005-05-09 12:14:49 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It's just that if you mail in the VHS, we can get a DVD.

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-09 09:18:29 pm

Sleeping Terror

It's hard to mail in a VHS that doesn't exist.

But, a DVD, you say? I suppose I could make one... I don't have a DVD burner, but I can borrow one... don't know if I want to go to the effort of making one, but I could.

xeen

2005-05-14 11:17:36 am

hwen do you think the run will be finally uploaded to radix'?

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-14 11:20:46 am

Sleeping Terror

Already sent in.

xeen

2005-05-14 11:24:34 am

meh, hopefully it'll be in the sunday update if radix does one...

Lightweight

Edit history:

Lightweight: 2005-05-14 07:15:30 pm

2005-05-14 07:15:14 pm

Great! Looking forward to surpass... eh... I mean, see your speedrun!

Yeah, that's right.

see.

Then surpass...

Uhh... I hope I didn't just say that out loud.

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-19 03:43:04 am

Sleeping Terror

It's up! ^_^

What do you all think of it?

Exinex

2005-05-19 03:48:11 am

O_0

38% done with the HQ version. It should be done sometime tomorrow morning! Tongue

Baxter

2005-05-19 02:22:58 pm

Just finished watching it. Very nice! I have no idea how I would do on a single segment, but I'm really impressed. Especially the Spider fight was good, and the final boss was very nice aswell!

I just picked up the Jump upgrade in my run. Don't expect it to be finished very soon, I'm still working on it a little every weekend, but I don't wanna rush it.

stx-Vile

2005-05-19 06:51:45 pm

The man made of sticks

Watched the first 25 minutes and it's quite well done, I must say. Great job!

An aside, but I also have to say this is an extremely well-crafted game that never did get the respect it deserved as far as sales goes. Watching the speedrun makes it feel like an animated film.

Tub

2005-05-19 08:03:56 pm

m00

Quote:

An aside, but I also have to say this is an extremely well-crafted game that never did get the respect it deserved as far as sales goes.

I couldn't agree more. I love this game.

I only watched up to getting the flight stabilizer, will watch the rest later. Until now: extremely well done. Nice route and tactic choices, and a great performance.

BoltR

2005-05-20 02:10:25 am

yes, mario riding nothing

I watched it all yesterday night when I got back from Star Wars and I really enjoyed it. Nice job, the run was very well done.

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-20 05:00:55 am

Sleeping Terror

Thanks. I'm glad you all like it. ^_^

Anybody spotted any tricks I didn't use, things I could've done faster, or anything like that? Besides the ones that are obvious mistakes, of course; I already know about those.

Quote:

An aside, but I also have to say this is an extremely well-crafted game that never did get the respect it deserved as far as sales goes. Watching the speedrun makes it feel like an animated film.

Quote:

I couldn't agree more. I love this game.

There aren't many games that aren't designed to be played dozens and dozens of times, yet can keep me entertained for as long as I spent on this one.

Tub

2005-05-20 06:33:56 am

m00

you're going for a better time? Smiley

Quote:

- The hovercraft nearly always kicks me out once when I try to leave Mammago Garage. I don't know why it does that.

I had the same problem when playing the PC version. It seems I just wasn't patient enough and pressed the button too often. To enter your hovercraft, just tap the button once, then don't touch your gamepad again until you left the area Wink

Hope that helps..

aside from that I noticed that you sometimes just run, and sometimes roll. Did you measure what is faster? If you did, stick to it.

there was one point in the game where I thought "wait, he doesn't have to do that".. it was only 2 or 3 seconds, and I forgot what it was. But if I watch the run again, I'll make sure to write it down.

if Pey'j doesn't freeze again, sub-2:40 seems possible.
I have no ideas for further shortcuts, except to get less PA-1's Roll Eyes

by the way, how do you keep track of all the codes you don't use immediately (e.g. Pey'j's boots)? Piece of Paper next to your gamepad? Or can you memorize them?

you're going for a better time? :)

[quote]- The hovercraft nearly always kicks me out once when I try to leave Mammago Garage. I don't know why it does that.[/quote]
I had the same problem when playing the PC version. It seems I just wasn't patient enough and pressed the button too often. To enter your hovercraft, just tap the button once, then don't touch your gamepad again until you left the area ;) Hope that helps..

aside from that I noticed that you sometimes just run, and sometimes roll. Did you measure what is faster? If you did, stick to it.

there was one point in the game where I thought "wait, he doesn't have to do that".. it was only 2 or 3 seconds, and I forgot what it was. But if I watch the run again, I'll make sure to write it down.

if Pey'j doesn't freeze again, sub-2:40 seems possible.
I have no ideas for further shortcuts, except to get less PA-1's  ::)

by the way, how do you keep track of all the codes you don't use immediately (e.g. Pey'j's boots)? Piece of Paper next to your gamepad? Or can you memorize them?

StrangenessDSS

2005-05-20 11:29:50 am

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

you're going for a better time? Smiley

Not immediately, but I probably will come back to this later.

Quote:

I had the same problem when playing the PC version. It seems I just wasn't patient enough and pressed the button too often. To enter your hovercraft, just tap the button once, then don't touch your gamepad again until you left the area Wink

Hope that helps..

That might be it. I didn't think I was pressing the button more than once, but the changing camera angles there are confusing, so it's possible.

Quote:

aside from that I noticed that you sometimes just run, and sometimes roll. Did you measure what is faster? If you did, stick to it.

Running is faster, rolling is silent. I was somewhat conservative - need to play through again and test exactly how much I need - but most of the rolling would've alerted guards if it had been running.

Quote:

if Pey'j doesn't freeze again, sub-2:40 seems possible.

I'd bet sub-2:35 is possible... maybe even sub 2:30.

Quote:

I have no ideas for further shortcuts, except to get less PA-1's Roll Eyes

If I run again, I'll get a lot less PA-1s. It's better to get multiple K-Bups, because they don't show you the scanning screen every time you pick one up.

Quote:

by the way, how do you keep track of all the codes you don't use immediately (e.g. Pey'j's boots)? Piece of Paper next to your gamepad? Or can you memorize them?

Pey'j's boots is the only one where I have a significant amount of time before I use it. I hadn't tried memorizing it before, because I didn't think I could do it... I was just checking it in the menu once I got to the spot where I needed it... but I had the crazy idea to try memorizing it that run. Turned out to be easy. I wrote it down on a piece of paper during the next cutscene, but I didn't need it.

I did get a bit thrown off when the last factory code turned out to be almost the same thing (like J5G5 and J5G6 or something), and was slow on the password entry because of it. I was slow on a lot of password entries that run. :/

By the way, I'm a she, not a he.

[quote]you're going for a better time? :)[/quote]
Not immediately, but I probably will come back to this later.

[quote]I had the same problem when playing the PC version. It seems I just wasn't patient enough and pressed the button too often. To enter your hovercraft, just tap the button once, then don't touch your gamepad again until you left the area ;) Hope that helps..[/quote]
That might be it. I didn't think I was pressing the button more than once, but the changing camera angles there are confusing, so it's possible.

[quote]aside from that I noticed that you sometimes just run, and sometimes roll. Did you measure what is faster? If you did, stick to it.[/quote]
Running is faster, rolling is silent. I was somewhat conservative - need to play through again and test exactly how much I need - but most of the rolling would've alerted guards if it had been running.

[quote]if Pey'j doesn't freeze again, sub-2:40 seems possible.[/quote]
I'd bet sub-2:35 is possible... maybe even sub 2:30.

[quote]I have no ideas for further shortcuts, except to get less PA-1's  ::)[/quote]
If I run again, I'll get a lot less PA-1s. It's better to get multiple K-Bups, because they don't show you the scanning screen every time you pick one up.

[quote]by the way, how do you keep track of all the codes you don't use immediately (e.g. Pey'j's boots)? Piece of Paper next to your gamepad? Or can you memorize them?[/quote]
Pey'j's boots is the only one where I have a significant amount of time before I use it. I hadn't tried memorizing it before, because I didn't think I could do it... I was just checking it in the menu once I got to the spot where I needed it... but I had the crazy idea to try memorizing it that run. Turned out to be easy. I wrote it down on a piece of paper during the next cutscene, but I didn't need it.

I did get a bit thrown off when the last factory code turned out to be almost the same thing (like J5G5 and J5G6 or something), and was slow on the password entry because of it. I was slow on a lot of password entries that run. :/

By the way, I'm a she, not a he.

Baxter

Edit history:

Baxter: 2005-05-21 04:20:26 pm

2005-05-20 11:04:59 pm

There are a few things you do better in this run, than I did in my segmented run (they're very small) and some other things I'd like to mention:

- You tried to do backflips on the first domz boss, I already knew it was faster, but 2 out of 3 times I get the attack where Jade makes a spin before attacking. This one takes longer than the normal attack, so I decided to do normal attacks (I think I might have done it a little faster than you, because you accidently hit him once more than needed, but I thought I'd mention it).

- You kill the first Crochax you fight in one attack. I don't know whether it's due to the fact that I'm playing the cube version or something, but I need to hit him once more after I do that attack (I don't remember me ever killing it in one attack) (some other crochax can be killed in one time, some others can't).

- I also kill all animals in the secondary shaft. I know that if Pey'j should accidently step on the panel, you wouldn't have to fight all, but he nearly always lacks behind trying to kill some enemy. I don't think killing all animals takes that much time.

- I didn't know the way you got the code from Rufus. I always got it by panning the camara. (this doesn't influence my time, since I don't include looking at the code in the run, I just enter it)

- In the city, right after you get killed, you must dodge lasers and enter the door before the get closed. You kneel for a short amount of time, I make a roll. Kneeling probebly looks a bit better, but I think it's equilly fast.

- You shoot the mine dropping robot right after you exit the factory. I should have done this aswell, now I had to make 2 small turns to dodge 2 mines.

\Edit

- One thing I forgot. The order I fix the elevator is different. First I supply the power, then place the fuse, and then I make Pey'j fix it. The reason I did this was because of the small pause the game has after the last of the 3 required are done and the cutscene. To me it appeared to be shorter if the last thing to fix the elevator was done by Pey'j. It could be that the xbox version doesn't have this wait at all.

- Another thing I noticed... I can skip Secundo talking about the first money you collect. I don't know if you forgot clicking it away, or if the xbox version won't let you skip it.

There are a few things you do better in this run, than I did in my segmented run (they're very small) and some other things I'd like to mention:

- You tried to do backflips on the first domz boss, I already knew it was faster, but 2 out of 3 times I get the attack where Jade makes a spin before attacking. This one takes longer than the normal attack, so I decided to do normal attacks (I think I might have done it a little faster than you, because you accidently hit him once more than needed, but I thought I'd mention it).

- You kill the first Crochax you fight in one attack. I don't know whether it's due to the fact that I'm playing the cube version or something, but I need to hit him once more after I do that attack (I don't remember me ever killing it in one attack) (some other crochax can be killed in one time, some others can't).

- I also kill all animals in the secondary shaft. I know that if Pey'j should accidently step on the panel, you wouldn't have to fight all, but he nearly always lacks behind trying to kill some enemy. I don't think killing all animals takes that much time.

- I didn't know the way you got the code from Rufus. I always got it by panning the camara. (this doesn't influence my time, since I don't include looking at the code in the run, I just enter it)

- In the city, right after you get killed, you must dodge lasers and enter the door before the get closed. You kneel for a short amount of time, I make a roll. Kneeling probebly looks a bit better, but I think it's equilly fast.

- You shoot the mine dropping robot right after you exit the factory. I should have done this aswell, now I had to make 2 small turns to dodge 2 mines.

\Edit

- One thing I forgot. The order I fix the elevator is different. First I supply the power, then place the fuse, and then I make Pey'j fix it. The reason I did this was because of the small pause the game has after the last of the 3 required are done and the cutscene. To me it appeared to be shorter if the last thing to fix the elevator was done by Pey'j. It could be that the xbox version doesn't have this wait at all.

- Another thing I noticed... I can skip Secundo talking about the first money you collect. I don't know if you forgot clicking it away, or if the xbox version won't let you skip it.

xeen

2005-05-21 10:53:42 am

Quote:

- I didn't know the way you got the code from Rufus. I always got it by panning the camara. (this doesn't influence my time, since I don't include looking at the code in the run, I just enter it)

If I get this right, well, this won't be allowed at sda I think, because it's not allowed to use any codes you know because you played through once. You need to get them in the run itself otherwise this would be quite stupid...

Baxter

2005-05-21 12:05:30 pm

It would be quit stupid to look at a code I already know. How long would I have to look at it to make it valid? Eitherway, I would never add that in a speedrun, maybe in a walktrough.

Btw, in Majora's mask the entire bomber quest is skipped by playing ahead, I haven't heared Radix or someone else about that, and that's skipping a lot more than just looking at a code lying on some table.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-05-21 01:14:38 pm

2005-05-21 01:10:35 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Quote:

If I get this right, well, this won't be allowed at sda I think, because it's not allowed to use any codes you know because you played through once. You need to get them in the run itself otherwise this would be quite stupid...

Knowledge you got by playing through the game once was never a question in speedruns. Most sequence breaks force you to know what you're doing anyway, a code that's fixed is no exeption.

The only part that worried me was random knowledge that has to be gotten by playing, but it seems that playing ahead in a segmented run, getting the code, loading a save and entering the code is also acceptable (TSA does it in his MM run)

Lightweight

Edit history:

Lightweight: 2005-05-23 02:56:57 am

2005-05-21 06:17:18 pm

Well, that would be nice... If this wasn't single segment!

Rufus' code? probably looked at it before Rufus could slam his hand on the table.

Also, I'm sad. I can't watch it! I will someday, but I can't right now! Whaa!

xeen

2005-05-22 07:56:28 pm

Yeah, you may be right, but I don't think this is somehow "right" because it "breaks" the fluent run in my eyes. I think that speedruns need to be played like you were playing it the first time, with the advantage that you know the levels and what happens, but without skipping something you can't know without playing the game once. Well, you won't find the fastest routes playing the first time, but you (accidentally) *could* find them. A code is something that is unlikley to be found accidentally - well, you could try out all combinations, but come on, who'd do this.
However this is allowed by the rules, so you can skip it, but I still think this is stupid.
xeen

Radix

2005-05-22 08:01:49 pm

I'm addicted to games

Can you honestly tell me you've never played game that required finding a code and using it, but when you played it again later you just used the code anyway?

Restricing something like that is silly... like someone said, how long do you have to leave it on screen for it to "count"? 1 frame? 1 second? 1 second per word? It's pointless to try to control.