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mikwuyma: 2008-07-12 01:38:28 am
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
This post will briefly discuss the SDA Frontend system I created with the appreciated help of others. For lack of creativity, I'm calling it SDA beta.

First the disclosures:
This is a personal project of mine and is no way related to any other projects at SDA.
This project is not endorsed by any SDA staff, nor are there any plans, arrangements, or even subliminal agreements to have it replace, reorganize, or even prioritize over any sections of SDA.
This project is NOT SDA 2.0, and is not related to or in competition with anything being done publicly or privately at sda.

Sorry for the disclosures, but I'm still a new guy here, and politics is what it is. I have no wish to step on any toes. I'm really just doing this out of good will.

- So what is this?

LINK

I started this project 2 weeks ago and am mostly done with a working version. This site occasionally parses the main SDA website and organizes all of its data into a structured database. This data is presented in a flexible way allowing users to search, make reviews, and access information easier.

- 2 Weeks? I don't think so.
This project was built on a framework called CleverTree which I have created over 2 years. My motivation for this project comes half from helping SDA and half from wanting to test out and improve my framework, which I did.

- Why did you do it?
I've been long coming to SDA and love the site, but lets face it. HTML pages, while serving their purpose, limit SDA from reaching its full potential.

- Ok, so whats done?

The primary design (loosely based on another design I did) is finished. I'm not a web designer, but I think it turned out ok for a beta. Every page (Node) is based on templates, giving the site a standard feel.

Searching by any field (Runner Name, Game Title, Game System, many many others). Pulling up all runs by a particular person.

Sorting by any field (Release date, System, SpeedRun Duration)

User/Admin Accounts. Users may register accounts for the purposes of writing reviews and customizing the interface, as well as using features to come. Admin accounts can change anything about a node and add child sections to them. This also allows certain users (namely speed runners themselves) to be given access to the pages containing their runs so they can change comments, upload images, whatever)

Users can write speed run reviews and assign ratings 0-5 for each run. Later, sorting by review score will be made available.

Streaming most runs via a custom flash player directly from the run page (not all runs have streamable data on the server yet).

Other stuff I'm forgetting I'm sure.

- What's planned but not done

Flash Video - bookmarks (A list identifying key moments in a streamed video, ie stages or tricks)

Flash Video - Audio Commentary selectable option for runs with commentary while streaming video.

Website skins that completely customize the look and functionality of every page, user selectable. This is actually already done, but theres only one skin right now. I use smarty, so its cake to add another skin.

IL Speed Runs are not being parsed yet since the nature of their structure requires a different parser to be made, as well as a different method of storing and displaying information. Shouldn't be long. The Quake Section will most likely not be parsed into this system.

Game-specific Run discussion shown on the game pages allowing runners to discuss common tricks for a game. The forum allows this, but this would be more accessible.

Email notification (ie Speed Runners can be told when someone commented on their run if they wish, Users can be notified when a run from a specific game or system has been added)

Sky is the limit, I'm open to ideas.

- So what do you want? a cookie?
Yep! But otherwise I am not looking for anything for the project, save for everyone to at least try it out.

- Wait, how do we know this isn't a ploy to steal passwords/ take over the site?
Feel free to use the site without registering. You won't lose out on too many options. As this site is hosted at SDA, the staff have full access to the code/db. If they felt so inclined, they could see the user account passwords use salted hashes and are unrecoverable. The entire project exists in a separate user space from the main site, and cannot access or modify any files on sda. There isn't much I could do.

- Uh, hosted at SDA? how did that happen?
A very generous and extremely helpful xnate.

- Could this become the new SDA?
Potentially yea, but that's not the primary goal at this time. I don't believe the staff have any interest in changing things, so I built this project around that eventuality. The parser works automatically. Any new runs added to the site would appear on this project within minutes. If some day the sentiment changes to favor this project, it could very easily become the primary system. For the time being, if you like this interface, then feel free to use it as your primary front end for SDA. I'll be fixing bugs and adding features.

- I want to help/hurt, so what should I do?
If you think this is a great idea, then please feel free to do the following: Comment on it here. Use the site regularly. Find bugs, mistakes, missing features. Let people know whats going on.
If you think this is stupid and I should get off the site and take my pathetic little project with me, please comment as well. I am interested in determining the general sentiment towards something like this for better or worse.

And that's about it. Enjoy!
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Protricity: 2008-06-28 10:23:42 pm
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Oh, forgot to mention. If you encounter errors or enjoy debugging projects, please reply to this thread in this fashion:

omg like i totally found a bug, you suck!

My Browser: Firefox/Opera/IE/Notepad
My OS: Windows/Linux/TI-83
The page I'm on: http://...
I tried to ... while [not] logged in.
and I got:
Code:
Output ... 


Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
A few things I noticed: it would be better to have the runs somewhere besides way off to the right. The link to the game list should be more prominent IMO. Pokemon Red/Blue is missing, along with Yellow.

Overall, I think the current SDA design is much more intuitive and it is easier to find things.

EDIT: Now I have "Insufficient 'View' Rights."...
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Sorry about that error. its gone now.
Pokemon has some special characters, so it isn't parsing right. I should have mentioned that. I don't think there are any other missing games, except for IL.
Thanks for the input.
Ōkami is in the full game list, but not in the list of games starting with O.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Ōkami doesn't start with O.

You can assume these issues will occur with any game using other than a-z characters until the outlier is solved.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
data wise looks cool, but the layout sucks and I don't mean the style which obviously does too Smiley

I'd get rid of the banner area and have something like 1.5em tall at most if you still want it to say speeddemosarchive as a title (logo can be in the page background, so no need to waste the space), since you are showing so much information in a single page then it should be higher

Personally I am a css nazi so I cringe to so many tables, but whatever. Drop the image backgrounds for the tables and stuff they slow down my slow comp, javascript is already enough overhead.

I'd use the banner space to put the navi there (with bigger text), with the demo links on a separate page since loading them automatically is sort of useless for both the server and browsers since they still have to use the paging, better just to have a search form at the top (with ajax if you wish so it searches early). Then the game list can simply be a looong page with at least 500 games so you can ctrl-f easily... and have the site 2 column which allows more text area with your third column becoming the first one.

Basically you have three columns with about the same width so I don't know which one is the "main" one, right now it seems it is the third.

There's nothing to put instead of the "This section contains speed demos", the news are better there.

For some reason MSG2 was put on 2008 despite it says 2007.
Selecting a run from the dropdown suggestions list in the search field should load the run data instead of entering the name into the search box, having to search for it AND clicking on a single link. The way it is now it's a useful feature gone wrong, as it doesn't save time over a conventional search.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Thanks for the tips. Theres a lot of empty sections because I have yet to fill them up with page data. I'm looking into ways to pull data from other sites as I do with the demo data. Just a matter of time to fill in all the missing sections, fill up faq, hide admin etc etc. Lots left to do

Quote from gia:
I'd get rid of the banner area and have something like 1.5em tall at most if you still want it to say speeddemosarchive as a title (logo can be in the page background, so no need to waste the space), since you are showing so much information in a single page then it should be higher

I left the space there for the google ads basically.
There should still be drop-down boxes to list ONLY items for a specific category, instead of going through page after page of stuff to get what you want.

I do like how you did the individual game pages though. =D

Another thing I noticed is the "Status: Accepted". Dumb question, but does that mean that we'll get to see some kind of preview some sort while a run is in queue?

Lastly, the text in the scroll boxes kind-of overlaps. I'm thinking there shouldn't be so many scroll boxes and to just have the page conform (length-wise) to whatever avalanche of bullshit is in said boxes =p
Well, to me this beta site looks very chaotic. When I first saw it, it immediately reminded me of these media sites where you get completely lost.

That's what I like about SDA now, it's very simplistic.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Carcinogen:
There should still be drop-down boxes to list ONLY items for a specific category, instead of going through page after page of stuff to get what you want.

I do like how you did the individual game pages though. =D

Another thing I noticed is the "Status: Accepted". Dumb question, but does that mean that we'll get to see some kind of preview some sort while a run is in queue?

Lastly, the text in the scroll boxes kind-of overlaps. I'm thinking there shouldn't be so many scroll boxes and to just have the page conform (length-wise) to whatever avalanche of bullshit is in said boxes =p


The category idea could be done, but its just another thing to clutter up that little box. The cool part is that right now if you searched 'Super Nintendo' in the search box, it should pull up all super nintendo runs, which is effectively the same thing. Sure its not as easy, but this is still pretty early.

The Status: accepted is something I built that isnt being used now. Its part of the system that would allow users to submit their runs directly into a queue, and get rejected/accepted by the staff. This would only happen if the staff decides to use this system instead of their current setup. I wouldn't expect for that to happen any time soon if at all.

I actually got rid of the middle scroll bar just cause it effectively kills the mouse wheel especially on Firefox3. Either way, design elements aren't as much of a focus right now as functionality. The design could be a hell of a lot better. Right now I'm just seeing if there will be enough interest in this to even warrant a redesign.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from TheVoid:
Well, to me this beta site looks very chaotic. When I first saw it, it immediately reminded me of these media sites where you get completely lost.

That's what I like about SDA now, it's very simplistic.


It would be trivial to add another skin resembling the current simple style of SDA, which a user can set as his default skin, while retaining the functionality of the site and database. If more people share this sentiment, I may do just that.
Doin Good
So far I'm liking this quite a bit, and hope it catches on. I've managed to create an account after a little work, and doing so seems to be running smoothly now. I look forward to this as it progresses. Let's get other users registered!

The concept of being able to manage the game page of your particular run does seems like a great bonus. Also I think this would be a good alternative to Lag.Com's ill fated board for commenting on new runs...
two rows of links on main page pretty nifty
I've registered under this name, does that mean I'm in control of my runs under this name? If so, couldn't some jerk just register under a different runner's name?
I like being able to download runs and read comments on the same page, clears up tabs.
I actually really like it.  Sure, the skin's a little... tacky as all hell, but I like the layout and search features.

The only minor annoyance is when I'm going through the Game List.  Say I'm looking for Kirby: Super Star and I go to the "K" listing.  I end up clicking on Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland instead.  No bother, I just hit the back button and... it drops me back at the default game list page 1, not at the page I was on. 

Also, a feature request.  I'm looking through at the Active Users Tab and I click on a few names.  This shows the profile page for that user as well as his contact information, but it's otherwise pretty barren.  As I understand it, eventually runners would be able to edit and manage their run page.  So would it be possible to allow runs performed by that specific user to be displayed on their User Page as well with links and all to said runs (Say, under their profile quote/paragraph/thingie-ma-bob) by default?  I.E. You see "Psychochild" browsing and you click on his tab to figure out who the Hell he is to see...

__________________________________

I OWN U LOLOLolo1!  SUCK IT NOOBPASTE


__________________________________

Runs:

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening

DevilMayCry3SE - SuperDante - Turbo - HoH (1:03:03)
DevilMayCry3SE - Vergil - Hard (1:40:07)

Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

DonkeyKongCountry2 - GBA - Single Segment (0:56)

Oh. And on that note, it seems that although it picks up the DMC3: Special Edition runs (Super Dante HoH and Vergil), the beta.speeddemosarchive.com site doesn't pick up anything released on the Vanilla "Dante's Awakening" release which was on the same page on the normal website.  Just found that curious. 

On the topic of feature requests, I second allowing us to adjust how many games to display on a given page in the Game List, I.E. "10, 20, 50, 100, All."  It would be nice.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from RJWaters2:
I've registered under this name, does that mean I'm in control of my runs under this name? If so, couldn't some jerk just register under a different runner's name?
I like being able to download runs and read comments on the same page, clears up tabs.


No. Its up to the staff to assign permissions however they want. Right now that's not going to happen because this project is simply the front end. The concept is that people would submit the runs to the site and thus be associated with them, so they can make changes whenever they want. For existing runs, users would have to submit requests to gain access to their runs, and the staff would have to verify their identities.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Psychochild:
I actually really like it.  Sure, the skin's a little... tacky as all hell, but I like the layout and search features.

The only minor annoyance is when I'm going through the Game List.  Say I'm looking for Kirby: Super Star and I go to the "K" listing.  I end up clicking on Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland instead.  No bother, I just hit the back button and... it drops me back at the default game list page 1, not at the page I was on. 

Also, a feature request.  I'm looking through at the Active Users Tab and I click on a few names.  This shows the profile page for that user as well as his contact information, but it's otherwise pretty barren.  As I understand it, eventually runners would be able to edit and manage their run page.  So would it be possible to allow runs performed by that specific user to be displayed on their User Page as well with links and all to said runs (Say, under their profile quote/paragraph/thingie-ma-bob) by default?  I.E. You see "Psychochild" browsing and you click on his tab to figure out who the Hell he is to see...

__________________________________

I OWN U LOLOLolo1!  SUCK IT NOOBPASTE


__________________________________

Runs:

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening

DevilMayCry3SE - SuperDante - Turbo - HoH (1:03:03)
DevilMayCry3SE - Vergil - Hard (1:40:07)

Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest

DonkeyKongCountry2 - GBA - Single Segment (0:56)

Oh. And on that note, it seems that although it picks up the DMC3: Special Edition runs (Super Dante HoH and Vergil), the beta.speeddemosarchive.com site doesn't pick up anything released on the Vanilla "Dante's Awakening" release which was on the same page on the normal website.  Just found that curious. 

On the topic of feature requests, I second allowing us to adjust how many games to display on a given page in the Game List, I.E. "10, 20, 50, 100, All."  It would be nice.


Runs appearing on one's user page is definitely an option, but I'm waiting to see if more people take interest in this before doing every last possible feature. It is actually possible at this time for a user to insert the demo list marker into his profile/workspace and display all demos within a certain search, like 'Where=e_SpeedDemo_Runner Equals=YourName' but thats advanced stuff.

Thanks for pointing out the Dante's Awakening missing page. I looked at the source page, and its because the page is using a slightly different format from the others. I just have to modify the parser to adapt to this.

Eventually I'll make it so each user can customize the look of the entire site, changing limits, boxes, pretty much everything. There will be advanced features like 'only show me demos I haven't downloaded/viewed yet' or 'show me all demos rated highly by xyz users'.
Hi! I'm andrewg!
Yeah, I've like this layout. I like being able to sort the runs.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote from Psychochild:
Oh. And on that note, it seems that although it picks up the DMC3: Special Edition runs (Super Dante HoH and Vergil), the beta.speeddemosarchive.com site doesn't pick up anything released on the Vanilla "Dante's Awakening" release which was on the same page on the normal website.  Just found that curious. 

Fixed.
The source html had an error after the time. <a> should be </a>. I added the allowance. If you see any other missing games let me know and I can fix them, IL excluded.
<li>Best time: Single-segment <a href="#SS">2:14:34<a> by James '<a href="mailto:Psychochild51&#064;hotmail.com">Psychochild</a>' Conway on 31.12.05.
The BaldurManiac
I hate the colors but the layout is quite amazing. We all know SDA needs a makeover and I would love to see it changed.
One feature I'd like to see in an SDA revamp is a place to view the history of the game's runs.  Previous times, runners, comments etc.  Keeping deprecated runs themselves is probably less plausible, but hey, we're an archive right?

It would take some time to see results for this kind of feature, though.
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
Quote from grndino:
Keeping deprecated runs themselves is probably less plausible, but hey, we're an archive right?

Obsoleted runs are all available at archive.org.
Quote from Manocheese:
Obsoleted runs are all available at archive.org.


New runs aren't uploaded to archive anymore.  Been that way for about a year I think.  And besides, is there anything attractive about this?
Quote from grndino:
New runs aren't uploaded to archive anymore.

wat