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scottm: 2014-08-19 02:32:11 pm
Very nice routes PJ, loved the inventiveness in a few of the boomerang strats. 100% will make for a really entertaining speedrun!
Using Frogs at the start of the first finale will save a bit of time - Just depends on whether or not if you'll need to switch back to the energy ball at the beginning of the 5th chapter - though two switches may still be quicker.
Is PJ
I thought I replied to this, but I apparently didn't.  Oops!

For some reason I didn't even consider using frog bomb in the finale.  Muscle memory is too strong!  This is why I post these videos.  Haha.  It does save a lot of time to use frog there, but I have a few concerns with it.  It saves a good amount of time to use boomerang in the finale, so I'd probably switch to frog bomb/boomerang.  The issue then is that energy ball and frog bomb both save time in 5-1 and 5-2, and energy ball/boomerang is needed for 5-3 onwards.  I want to avoid all these menus but it seems like not using the sequence breaks would be slower.  When I get a chance, I'll have to make a lot of videos for comparison.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Where are you using the frog bomb in 5-1 and 5-2? It's a little weird but you can skip the ducks in both stages with energy ball. Getting to the 5-1 goal is probably faster with frog though, especially if you don't get a good cycle or the cats misbehave.
Edit history:
PJ: 2014-08-22 03:27:08 pm
Is PJ
Somehow didn't see this post.  Sorry, rheno!  Yea, you can use a mid-air energy ball boost off like...the inside of a ceiling block to get across those gaps.  It is slower and more dangerous than frog iirc.  The main thing is that frog bomb can be used to get the yarn without creating the bridge with the rock in 5-2.  Boomerang can't get it and sometimes the buzzsaw cycles/dart placement really make it difficult and time consuming that get that rock.

In other news, I finished routing chapter 2 and I'm glad.  That is the worst chapter is the entire game.  I cannot stress enough how horrible the levels are.  They're all ridiculously random, and if you play on insane mode that means you can lose like 50 seconds pretty quickly just from chance.  I wrote a TON of stuff in the youtube description but can obviously elaborate more if there are questions/concerns/suggestions.



Edit:  If you don't read the description and are just glancing at the final time or something, take note that I died on the last few jumps of the 2nd finale and lost like 40 seconds.  I am tired of playing this chapter though, so I just stuck with this video.  I'm going to lose a TON of time on this chapter during attempts.  Haha.
It is actually possible to get the 5-2 yarn with boomerang, but it's pretty stupid. You have to punch the cat out of the way and wait for his darts to fall off the wall then do a really precise throw from about here (pretty sure it's either 1 or 2 pixels). I really doubt it'd be worth using in a run, haha. That room sucks so much.
Edit history:
PJ: 2014-08-24 08:55:02 pm
PJ: 2014-08-23 09:56:21 pm
PJ: 2014-08-23 09:52:56 pm
Is PJ
Hm.  Punching the cat isn't time consuming, but waiting for darts is no good.  I might have to do some more testing on those levels.  I want to hammer out a chapter 3 route first, so the first 4 chapters are finished, but I'll probably fool around with 5-1 and 5-2 some more soon.  Thanks for the idea!

Edit:  Just had a completely crazy idea and it turns out that it works!  In 2-E1, I don't need to use the paper airplane to skip that teleporter puzzle.  I can just use a really precise air overhead swat (jump + attack).  You carry your horizontal momentum with this attack without losing height, so with really clever spacing you can hover just above the teleporter.  Sweet!

Edit2:  I am dumb as hell.  There's a gem by the rock in 5-2 that I was trying to skip.  That solves the issue of needing the frog bomb.  :|

Edit3:  Chapter 3 routing is complete.  I'm pretty happy with how this turned out.  There's one boomerang throw in finale-1 that isn't in this video (found it while reviewing the video), but it's not a big deal.  There is also a frog bomb strat that is 0.4-0.5s faster than using the intended solution, but it is significantly harder.  I need frog bomb for 4-1 though, so I may just go for it. 

The other big "find" is that you can exit the menu with esc instead of confirm.  The weapon switches are WAY faster as a result, and way more consistent.  It only takes ~2.5 seconds to change weapons once, so I may review chapter 1 and consider switching more there.  That being said, the first 4 chapters are now "routed" for 100%.  There are still some minor things here and there I'm not happy with, but they're pretty much done.  I might do some test runs of ch1-4 at some point this week to see where my time is at.  I'd guess I can be entering chapter 5 by ~1:05.
Found a couple small improvements for 3-5 and 3-8! You can get a consistent launch into the 3rd gem in 3-5 by standing about here and throwing energy ball, then jumping onto it. This also lets you skip the second launch over the wall. For 3-8, you can stand to the left of the teleporter and throw a boomerang to get the gems. The positioning is extremely lenient from what I can tell, too.
Is PJ
That boost in 3-5 is great!  I'm not sure why I didn't try doing it from there.  I was determined to boost off of the gray block one tile higher.  Thanks for that!

Really smart boomerang in 3-8, too!  I love it.  Thanks.  ^_^

I found a few other minor improvements in some of the earlier levels (some in world 1, some in 2, etc) but they're nothing really spectacular so I'm not gonna bother with a new video.  The one big thing I've been testing more is frog bomb.  If you watch 3-2 in my Chapter 3 video (at ~1:45), I throw a frog bomb in the air and land on it.  I somehow never knew this could be done.  It surprisingly opens up a LOT of options, so I've been trying new things with it.  It just saves a second or two here and there (right now), but it certainly makes certain skips easier.  Since you can walk on it for so long before it explodes, it's really good for getting under spikes/fans/low ceilings.  I was *almost* able to skip the boat in 3-5.  Couldn't quite do it though.

Mecha Richter and I will be practicing/testing/routing stuff co-op tomorrow and will probably stream it.  Should be a lot of fun to try things with these new discoveries.  I think for a team, boomerang + energy ball will be good for one person and frog bomb + energy ball for the other.  Poison bubble is almost entirely obsolete now, especially if our coordination is good enough to throw each other without slowing down.  We'll see what works best.
Edit history:
scottm: 2014-09-03 12:03:37 pm

Bridge skip 1 - nice consistent timesaver found by PJ. The tricky part is getting on to the block above the treadmills, but with practice it won't be a problem.
Bridge skip 2 - don't hit your head on the first jump and you should be fine, I still get the CP as the timing is tight.
For the grenade cat I was able to manipulate the RNG of the teleports by switching weapons right after... Nope just got lucky there, haha
Air Frog comes in handy near the end.

EDIT: Not sure if this will come in handy; but it is possible to double jump - throw a frog - double jump off of the frog.
I'm sure the timing is the same as the jumping energy ball technique - not certain though
Is PJ
Oh nice, I didn't know you could do the first bridge skip without sliding on the conveyor.  That helps!  I'll work on the second one when I get a chance.  Thanks for suggesting these!

The double jump frog technique is something I suspected was possible.  Landing on a frog in mid-air is extremely useful for most of the water shortcuts, but I never really cared to look into using it as a raw double jump.  I can't think of anywhere offhand where it would be really useful, but I think there must be some situations that could benefit from it.


Here's a start to chapter 6. I've been playing around with some of the other levels but don't have anything I'm really satisfied with yet. There are a lot of sections that I can't find a good consistent strat for, or that I feel like should be a lot faster than they are (dern fuzzy bears). There are also a lot of really dumb boomerang throws but I'm not sure how much time those save.
Edit history:
OrangeCrix: 2014-09-12 04:57:24 am
OrangeCrix: 2014-09-11 09:18:52 pm
OrangeCrix: 2014-09-11 08:59:04 pm
OrangeCrix: 2014-09-11 08:58:42 pm
OrangeCrix: 2014-09-11 08:58:28 pm
Just a few small improvements and mechanics (I've known about these for a while now I just never posted):

The big one: After Finale 2 of chapter 8 you can simply exit the level at the cutscene where hatty is sitting in the chair and you'll skip the boat cutscene and be teleported to the ending cutscene.

For some reason items can only be used when you're facing the front of the boat.

Movable blocks under 1 block high ceiling: Jumping and grabbing these floating blocks will make the bridges disappear for a little bit letting the player fall through. A bunch of time can be saved in various places with this. One place I can think of is 3-5, where it looks like it saves a bunch of time.

Edit: Don't know if you've changed it already PJ, but the 4-8 gum block orb boost that you considered the hardest trick in the run is now one of the easiest orb tricks. Just stand here and shoot it. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.
http://puu.sh/bvuhP/36b2ed44fd.jpg

Edit 2: Apparently you're invincible for the first few seconds of the level against some traps. Easily shown on 5-3 and it's 100% pointless.
Is PJ
Nice!  Thanks for that 4-8 find!  That will certainly make things easier (though I'm sad to admit that I'm consistent at that boost now...)
I've wanted to run this game for some time now. It'll be the first game I've run also. Now to just find some free time between uni/work -_-
Here are some routes for chapter 6 and 7. I've finished routing a while ago but it's just a matter of actually recording and editing them (which is awful because recording makes the game lag).
The notes say a few things that can be done differently.



Hi. I'm learning 100% NG, was wondering if I should be doing secret levels? I routed chaps 1-4 doing them, but if it's not considered part of 100% I'd just skip them.
Edit history:
PJ: 2014-11-26 10:12:05 am
Is PJ
Yea I think there was some dissent on that earlier.  I'm not sure if we all ever agreed on the definition; at the time I was the only 100% runner and I wanted 100% to just be like...full "chapter progress meter".  That is, all A++ shown in the lobby and outside the chapter entrance.  So that's what I started routing for 100%.  I was talking with Mecha about it more last night and we both think 100% should do the secret levels.  They ARE tracked, but it doesn't show in the lobby.  The secret levels impact the progress meter on your player progress screen.  I'm not sure how others feel about this, but I now think 100% should do the secret levels.

Orange, those are nice vids!  I really really like your rock throwing.  That is spectacular!
Wake up and be awesome
I mess around with this game every once and a while, but I'd say 100% would be A++ all levels and the secret levels. If the game counts these two on the progress screen, then I say they count
Edit history:
SamxZero: 2014-11-26 05:54:24 pm
SamxZero: 2014-11-26 05:54:02 pm
Alright, cool! Thanks for the replies.



Mah 4-9. Strats for NG+ look pretty cool, but I'm doing NG so disc only.
Are there any official records for this game? Can't seem to see any on the front page
Is PJ
There are a bunch of single player any% times if you check a few pages back.  I don't think anybody has done single player 100% runs yet, or co-op any%.  The best NG+ co-op 100% time is currently 2:40:00 by Mecha Richter and I.  Didn't highlight on my channel because it is still bad.
Edit history:
seph: 2015-01-11 06:11:14 pm
Do you guys think when running a any% (no level skipping), it is okay to enter the secret level and immediately leave with out completing it?
It does give you a C-rating on the initial level, but what does the rules say?

(I hope this is the latest BBT thread, otherwise please refer me to it!)
Edit history:
scottm: 2015-01-11 07:48:58 pm
Yeah, that's ok, secret levels are basically just an alt exit in any%.
Also, congrats to Mecha and PJ for a great run at AGDQ! I don't normally venture into Twitch chat, but I had to give a 'Kappa //' in appreciation of that Blasterang
Alright, thanks scottm.
I'm currently running the any% (no level skip) with NG+ - are there any documented times out there for this type of run?
I only know of this one.
Edit history:
grahn: 2015-01-15 05:40:43 am
grahn: 2015-01-15 05:37:17 am
grahn: 2015-01-14 09:52:18 am
Monkiboy's run is great for reference but it seems it may have been recorded with the vsync video option off which gives an unfair advantage, so take that into consideration if you are to compare your time to that video. I found some times posted by Adikar and please correct me if I'm wrong but I would say this is the time to beat at this point for NG+ any% NLS.

EDIT: I'm dumb. The video you linked is not the run I was thinking of and is probably fine. The one I was thinking of is this VoD I guess? I'm afraid I can't be of any help then.

Quote from Adikar:
Updated: 7/12/14

Segmented Best Times [Vsync On]
Chapter 1: 07:50
Chapter 2: 09:27
Chapter 3: 10:22
Chapter 4: 09:56
Chapter 5: 12:42
Chapter 6: 12:17
Chapter 7: 12:26
Chapter 8: 14:16

Full Runs
Any%: 59:11 Played 8-2 Accidently
Any% NLS: 1:38:21
100%: 0:00:00