Baten Kaitos EWatLO Speedrun

2011-02-07 06:21:39 pm

I am doing a speed run of this game. I chose to start this thread for people to comment with their ideas. I don't have any ground breaking tactics at this point except to just keep things moving forward and tuning up for boss battles. Much of this game is luck as far as drawing the random spirit cards and whether or not a boss chooses a five hit combo or a two hit combo. There isn't any level grinding and any money I can muster up is used to purchase Magnus to fill my players decks. I purchase zero equipment and hammer through the dialogue. I skip anything that wastes time, including a class up Magnus for Savyna. I save immediately after acceptable battles and do all of the card optimization in my menu screen after I save. I will never try to optimize my deck before I save because I will screw it up. It has been about a month since I started and I hope that it's good enough so far. If anyone has any ideas please feel free to let me know...Rush especially.

Thread title:

RingRush

2011-02-07 06:45:35 pm

Going for a month without getting any comments was a risky maneuver, I hope your segments are up to SDA quality.

There was a thread or two about this game a while back, you can find it using the search feature. It discusses a lot of ideas that you may find helpful.

Some things off the top of my head:
1. As I learned late in my run, save in the church instead of saving just outside and entering the church next segment. You'll save about a quarter second of loading time. If you haven't been doing this so far, no big deal, but add it in whenever applicable.
2. I hope you are using Kalas/Xelha/Gibari/(4th for when Kalas is gone). I thought other teams would be faster, but the last runner who attempted this made the great point that classing up faster is a huge advantage. Although, if your characters are sufficiently underleveled, I could see Mizuti or Savyna being used. Really, I have no point here, just make sure the team you are using is fastest.
3. Are you doing any character sidequests? The last runner planned on doing Xelha’s for her final class up and better magic, but I am a bit skeptical of whether it is better to do that or just luck manipulate more in Cor Hydrae. Again, make sure you consider both options.
4. Make sure everything you are doing is necessary. Don’t level up/class up characters you won’t use, etc. Most of this is pretty obvious, but make sure everything you do is necessary or saves time somewhere.

There are many more details, but most of them I’ll just assume you are already doing. It would be cool if you could upload your segments as you complete them, so that we can alert you if your run isn’t up to SDA quality, or if we have any idea for a strategy change in an individual area.

Good luck...with a game this long and luck based you'll need it (dodging all the enemies without heartwing dash...I don't exactly envy you for doing this).

Going for a month without getting any comments was a risky maneuver, I hope your segments are up to SDA quality.

There was a thread or two about this game a while back, you can find it using the search feature. It discusses a lot of ideas that you may find helpful.

Some things off the top of my head:
1. As I learned late in my run, save in the church instead of saving just outside and entering the church next segment. You'll save about a quarter second of loading time. If you haven't been doing this so far, no big deal, but add it in whenever applicable.
2. I hope you are using Kalas/Xelha/Gibari/(4th for when Kalas is gone). I thought other teams would be faster, but the last runner who attempted this made the great point that classing up faster is a huge advantage. Although, if your characters are sufficiently underleveled, I could see Mizuti or Savyna being used. Really, I have no point here, just make sure the team you are using is fastest.
3. Are you doing any character sidequests? The last runner planned on doing Xelha’s for her final class up and better magic, but I am a bit skeptical of whether it is better to do that or just luck manipulate more in Cor Hydrae. Again, make sure you consider both options.
4. Make sure everything you are doing is necessary. Don’t level up/class up characters you won’t use, etc. Most of this is pretty obvious, but make sure everything you do is necessary or saves time somewhere.

There are many more details, but most of them I’ll just assume you are already doing. It would be cool if you could upload your segments as you complete them, so that we can alert you if your run isn’t up to SDA quality, or if we have any idea for a strategy change in an individual area.

Good luck...with a game this long and luck based you'll need it (dodging all the enemies without heartwing dash...I don't exactly envy you for doing this).

scottimu5

Edit history:

scottimu5: 2011-02-07 07:12:21 pm

2011-02-07 07:12:07 pm

Awesome. Valid points. I don't envy myself either since in a game this long there is bound to be times when I must move on without being totally satisfied. I will say this though, I am using multiple party members. This game boils down to proper management of the boss battles and this means I have to switch characters once in a blue moon. I don't like to do it but it doesn't take that long to do the switch. So far I have managed to keep good Magnus in my deck for all characters without going out of my way to acquire any. You are right about the class up and level up and the time spent there. I am always looking to be able to skip a specific level up and just wait for the next chuch visit to save time, but I'll be damned if I don't need to visit to heal myself. Most notably when I fought the Rainbow Spider he punished me down to a single hit point in the run that I kept. I had to visit the church and had the option to level up twice. I leveled up one time to regain my life and then leveled up again before the Giacomo fight. I didn't lose any time really because I had to level up Xelha anyway. You make some valid points and I will comment more later on.

scottimu5

2011-02-07 07:17:45 pm

I learned my lesson a while ago not to post vids before I finished so I can't help there. I am sure I will have about 300+ hours of footage to sort through so I need to actually concentrate to get it right. I just finished the Mystical Garden and expect to have another month to finish the run and a couple of weeks to do the vids.

peteyboo

2011-02-07 10:16:31 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

What's your projected time for finish? I believe my fastest time for completion is just over 18 hours, and I was sure I could get that well below 13 if I actually completed it. I just want to know if that guess was right or way off.

And thankfully someone is doing this. It just got too much for me to manipulate that freaking first Giacomo battle... and then I lost my DVD recording possibilities and my files, so I just gave up.

ZenicReverie

2011-02-08 12:14:24 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Flip

2011-02-08 07:56:45 am

1-Up!

Quote from ZenicReverie:

Don't bother with the first topic. It's the one I made a long time ago and discussion almost immediately descends to BK:O discussion.
The second topic might be somewhat helpful, but peteyboo didn't make it very far into his run and had trouble with losing his saves.

scottimu5

Edit history:

scottimu5: 2011-02-08 07:36:21 pm

scottimu5: 2011-02-08 07:32:08 pm

scottimu5: 2011-02-08 07:30:59 pm

scottimu5: 2011-02-08 07:30:41 pm

2011-02-08 07:30:09 pm

I saw what peteyboo had done and it was inspiring. How he got that double demons of darkness on the Rainbow spider guy I will never know. I thought, if I have to maintain this throughout the entire game I'm screwed. Luckily I found a quicker route to the spider which involved entering that particular area from the south and run up to the location. I believe I only had a single battle en route which was only a Shawra. Needless to say I was able to stay ahead of Peteyboo for what was published. I chose to skip the ice dagger obtained by offering a Magnus apple in the beginning for example.
As for how long this will take me, I can't say. You would expect the boss battles to get longer as the games goes on but when I am continously resetting for the premium run I am ripping through certain areas. There is nothing quite like a six card straight ending with a finisher that does major damage. To give you an idea, when I saved after I beat the Magnus Gigantus I was at 4 hours 14 minutes and 55 seconds. Is that good?

I saw what peteyboo had done and it was inspiring. How he got that double demons of darkness on the Rainbow spider guy I will never know. I thought, if I have to maintain this throughout the entire game I'm screwed. Luckily I found a quicker route to the spider which involved entering that particular area from the south and run up to the location. I believe I only had a single battle en route which was only a Shawra. Needless to say I was able to stay ahead of Peteyboo for what was published. I chose to skip the ice dagger obtained by offering a Magnus apple in the beginning for example. 
  As for how long this will take me, I can't say. You would expect the boss battles to get longer as the games goes on but when I am continously resetting for the premium run I am ripping through certain areas. There is nothing quite like a six card straight ending with a finisher that does major damage. To give you an idea, when I saved after I beat the Magnus Gigantus I was at 4 hours 14 minutes and 55 seconds. Is that good?

scottimu5

2011-02-08 07:45:48 pm

Thanks Flip, I checked out that link. A couple things make me nervous. One is the idea of keeping the same characters. I understand how this saves time, creates stronger characters, and allows for the best Magnus to be with the right people but I am not convinced this is totally necessary. Both Lyude and Savyna have starting decks who's spirit numbers combo nicely. The percentage bonus become huge as character elemental immunities come into play. It helps to get tax free damage. For this reason I have switched characters a couple of times already and it seems to work out fine. I have yet to feel shorted on the proper Magnus cards even when I distribute them amongst the five characters I have right now. At some point I will have to break a characters cards up but probably only once near the end of the game. I do plan to strip Mizuti when I finally get her.

peteyboo

2011-02-09 07:40:59 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from scottimu5:

To give you an idea, when I saved after I beat the Magnus Gigantus I was at 4 hours 14 minutes and 55 seconds. Is that good?

Well when I finished Giacomo in my run, I was under an hour for the first island. Magnus Giganticus is the final boss of Mira, right? So just over four hours for four islands, without many long cutscenes, and taking into account longer boss battles? Pretty good I guess. I should try to do another run up to there, although I can't record it...

However, the second half of the game will take very long. Even with my extra magic Magnus for Xelha, each of the Sibling Gods were taking fifteen minutes each, not including the paths up to them. Of course, this was only a test run and I would definitely strive for better cards in the real thing, but over ten minutes a battle still puts the final dungeon at well over an hour and a half, including all the cutscenes and stuff. Not to mention battles like the double triple that will probably take half an hour alone, and the block tower that must be done all in two segments, with that horrible boss at the end. If you can finish this and still be sane, good for you.

[quote="scottimu5"] To give you an idea, when I saved after I beat the Magnus Gigantus I was at 4 hours 14 minutes and 55 seconds. Is that good? [/quote]

Well when I finished Giacomo in my run, I was under an hour for the first island. Magnus Giganticus is the final boss of Mira, right? So just over four hours for four islands, without many long cutscenes, and taking into account longer boss battles? Pretty good I guess. I should try to do another run up to there, although I can't record it...

However, the second half of the game will take very long. Even with my extra magic Magnus for Xelha, each of the Sibling Gods were taking fifteen minutes each, not including the paths up to them. Of course, this was only a test run and I would definitely strive for better cards in the real thing, but over ten minutes a battle still puts the final dungeon at well over an hour and a half, including all the cutscenes and stuff. Not to mention battles like the double triple that will probably take half an hour alone, and the block tower that must be done all in two segments, with that horrible boss at the end. If you can finish this and still be sane, good for you.

scottimu5

2011-02-09 09:43:07 am

I'll definitely finish but I just hope I am happy with it. It is much easier playing to beat a time than to establish one. And certain levels do throw a monkey in the wrench. I remember the Holoholo jungle taking almost 15 minutes to cross. There were several forced encounters and two necessary item locations to visit, not ideal.

ZenicReverie

2011-02-09 10:06:40 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

So, play through and establish a time. Then beat it 10 times over. RPGs probably take the longest to complete due to all the planning and luck involved. It's easier to improve on something than it is to invent something, so set a time first, and then improve it.

I still have yet to play through these games Sad

RingRush

2011-02-09 11:26:11 am

I forgot, does this game have an escape magnus like Origins? Unless the exp gain from a fight is worth the full length of a battle, you should be using that wherever possible.

peteyboo

2011-02-09 02:10:19 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It does have an Escape Magnus, but you don't get the first one for a long time, and even then you have to rely on luck to get it AND it can only be used by one character. All in all, it's probably faster to get a one opponent battle, decimate it, and revel in the paltry EXP it gives. <_<

scottimu5

Edit history:

scottimu5: 2011-02-09 07:33:28 pm

2011-02-09 07:32:24 pm

I have the escape Magnus, I got it from Lyude. There is another one where you fight the Lochness Monster but it isn't worth the probable three minutes and single enemy encounter. Peteyboo is right, more often than nought it is just as fast to kill a single enemy than escape from it. I did however have to use the escape Magnus in the jungle. I even contemplated holding off on a class up to better the odds that it would appear during a fight. It has to be the first Magnus selected on a turn in order to work. When you have 30 cards total you can view 5 at the start of your turn, or a 16.6% of seeing the escape card. When you have 40 cards you can view 6 at the start for a 15% chance. Basically the lower the class level you are the better the odds but not enough to really mean anything.

scottimu5

2011-02-11 11:53:01 pm

I'm on disc 2, 4:52 minutes.

peteyboo

2011-02-12 12:16:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

If only it didn't take a few seconds, you should definitely turn voices back on for the big cutscene. Kalas is hilarious there. >_>

That said, I forget where the disc change occurs, but if it's right after Alfard, then 5 hours for 5 islands is amazing. Now for the hard part.

scottimu5

Edit history:

scottimu5: 2011-02-12 09:12:20 pm

2011-02-12 05:00:09 pm

Yeah. I think things are going well. I am only having minor doubts so far. The further I get into any speedrun I start to question whether I am utilizing everything correctly. I feel like I have unnecessarily leveled up characters a few times in the church when I could have waited till the next church visit. Not a big deal. I also feel like I could completely omit Savyna instead a battled with her once already. For disc 2 I need to consolidate Mizuti's stuff and give it to Xelha. At that time I will cut both Savyna and Mizuti loose and dispense their equipment accordingly. Everything else is going great and I feel like I haven't given in yet. Next up is the Giacomo, Ayme, Folon battle which I am looking forward to. The disc change is before Alfard.

scottimu5

2011-02-15 07:06:00 pm

I just defeated Giacamoo, Folon, and Ayme for the first time in the Goldoba. Interesting fight that was just under twenty minutes. My eyes hurt from not blinking. I am going to post the video tonight or tomorrow if all goes well.

peteyboo

2011-02-15 08:36:57 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

>_> You didn't blink?

Hell, you could almost take a NAP during one of Giacomo's attacks.

scottimu5

Edit history:

scottimu5: 2011-02-16 07:06:37 pm

scottimu5: 2011-02-16 07:06:25 pm

2011-02-16 07:05:04 pm

My eyes were burning the next day at work. Check this out. Please keep in mind that I am still underleveled quite a bit before comparing it to other battles online were their decks are stacked.

peteyboo

2011-02-17 01:25:38 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'll be in my bunk.

<_<

scottimu5

2011-02-23 09:26:30 pm

I just put Dark Kalas down and saved just under eight hours. Under ten is doubtful.

peteyboo

2011-02-24 04:54:41 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Under ten is DOUBTFUL? Sheesh, I thought 12 was wishful thinking.

Flip

2011-02-24 03:54:20 pm

1-Up!

Quote from scottimu5:

I just put Dark Kalas down and saved just under eight hours. Under ten is doubtful.

I bet that fight was a bitch to get through.