Banjo Kazooie - July 20, 2015

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2015-07-20 04:38:46 am

2015-06-23 10:16:42 am

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Banjo Kazooie (ntscus) (n64) [100 %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Reject

Reason: The video is heavily interlaced and not acceptable for sda. We have not received a reply on this topic from the runner. If someone has a reliable way of contacting stivitybobo, feel free to alert him about this thread.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/1665/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2015-06-23 10:16:43 am

Run Information

Banjo Kazooie (ntscus) (n64) [100 %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/BanjoKazooie-20150610/Banjo-Kazooie%20100%25%20SDA.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting. Verifications are due by July 7, 2015.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

After 2 weeks I will read all of the verifications and move this thread to the main verification board and post my verdict.

Uilnslcoap

Edit history:

Uilnslcoap: 2015-06-23 11:58:23 pm

Uilnslcoap: 2015-06-23 11:56:09 pm

Uilnslcoap: 2015-06-23 11:54:36 pm

2015-06-23 01:13:23 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

I have all my notes from the Youtube version of this run documented at home, and after I get back from work and watch this file tonight after family stuff (to make sure A/V is good), I'll put those comments in here, but for now, let me just say, if you are a fan of runs of this game, you should be on your knees thanking the universe or deity of your choice that stivitybobo exists and was willing to work on this for as long as he did. Just an incredible run. I wrote a speed guide for this game in 2003 where pushing 3 hours seemed the limit of possibilities. Times change.

Edit, here it is:

Just to get the fawning out of the way before I start nitpicking: if you are a fan of Banjo-Kazooie and speedruns, your moment has arrived. This run is delivered to you by the one person on Earth who is even close to this good at the game and playing publically. Really exciting to watch this run get so much better in the last few years. Stiv has realistically been racing himself for a long time (the 2nd place person is about four minutes behind him), but the community has kept finding new things, and he’s never stopped. Caught this one live from RBB on. Quite the treat.

I think it's 2:07:38 or 2:07:39 by SDA timing (stiv calls it 2:07:45, but SDA starts from character control, not file select). The statid has the in-game time of 1:59:44 (the first sub-2:00:00 in-game time ever achieved).

The A/V looks a little washed out, but I don't think it's worse than what's on the site already, and it's a 1998 game.

Some examples of the little things that add up:

Using the flip flap jump to slide forward quickly when the amount of space is just right for the momentum into trigger points or similar.

Triggering the talon trot when going into doorways or other transitions so that the animation time does not overlap with gameplay.

Stomping just on the edge of switches (a couple of screw-ups as expected when you play it so fine, but a net positive anyway).

Using damage (bees in CCW) or “bounce off” properties (Tiptup in BS) to control B-K during cutscenes

A lot of clever Jiggyjig (that’s what I call the dance/cutscene when a Jiggy is collected) skips/overlaps (especially the two Jinjo “jump into water just at the right moment” skips in MMM and RBB)

Now for the nitpicking (I’m sure I missed some things and it's likely a couple of things I call out as mistakes actually aren't) hidden behind a spoiler wall…

SM: essentially flawless, Colliwobble location could have been better

MM: no significant mistakes

-3:02: gets hooked on a bit of collision in a roll toward the puzzle

TTC: very good

-9:00: pulls out talon trot too early, before the transition into the next room

+10:58: gets lucky with Blubber’s position to overlap Jiggyjig with Blubber’s exit

-12:43: messes up the talon trot slide to drop quickly underwater, has to dive (closest thing to a big mistake so far)

-14:06: slightly unlucky that he doesn’t get hit by the crab right after Jiggy collection, has to walk up to it to take the hit

-16:21: claw swipe instead of roll leading to…

-16:23: misses first stomp, has to stomp twice on “J”

CC: good

-17:04: messes up the flap flip off the cannon

-21:29: fires a fourth egg unnecessarily at the tooth

-23:20: doesn’t peck the grating as fast as possible

-23:52: a little late on the blowhole entry

-26:24: doesn’t reach the Jiggy spawn point in time to overlap the cutscene with the Jiggyjig (Mutie Snippets positioning luck?)

BS: very good

-34:05: misses egg shot on croc from behind (tough window)

-38:15: misses first jump at honeycomb in skull (on par with the "biggest" mistakes in the game so far)

-42:20: doesn’t get to avoid “play a harder game” text from Vile, Vile at the back of the room at finish

FP1: fucking fantastic

-44:28: messes up stomping switch

GV: very good

-50:20: fourth try Gobi clip (average-ish?)

-54:09: has to turn around and go back for note

-56:54: unfavorable Mum-Mum position, has to to turn around for note

-57:51: maze skip second try

-59:25: has to turn around for note

MMM: fucking fantastic

-1:06:18: couple of mishaps getting egg in flowerpot

-1:09:29: misses Mumbo token, will have to collect a slightly more time-consuming one later (in the upstairs sink, per runner's notes)

-1:10:38: claw swipe instead of roll on piano keys

FP2: fucking fantastic

-1:25:54: pretty sure meant to go into frozen water with 1 fewer energy so as to jump and flap out instead of swimming at the end, but possibly a route change? Anyway, this is literally the only thing I see as possibly wrong with this level.

RBB: fucking fantastic (it was a personal best time and I'm being harsh with the nits I'm picking)

-1:27:44: didn’t hop forward into cutscene after hitting switch

-1:29:17: entrance into honeycomb tunnel could have been slightly faster/cleaner

-1:30:04: slightly long setup getting through second fan blade

+1:30:17: pretty sure it’s impossible to clip this wall faster than this, very TAS-looking

-1:30:46: messes up the insta-drop into the water

-1:33:15: couple of slight delays getting out of this room

-1:37:54: unintentional hit by shark (partly luck-based, I think) also forces honey collection in final room

+1:38:00: getting this Jiggyjig skip is very hard

CCW: very good (CCW is hard)

-1:40:35: messes up drop, gets stuck on tunnel edge

-1:44:09: third try at exit is pretty solid

-1:45:50: misses first stomp on switch

-1:49:11: misses note, has to go back

-1:51:01: takes hit, has to wait a while to collect note

-1:53:27: misses note, has to go back

-1:56:15: setup for egg fart onto window is a bit lengthy, takes two tries

-1:57:01: misses beak bomb onto roof, has to flap flip up

-1:57:11: pretty sure that slip off the roof was not intentional

-1:57:32: misses first jump up to platform with flight pad

-1:59:55: ascends prematurely, has to make second pass to grab flower Jiggy

GFF: bitten by RNG

-2:01:53: 5 missed Grunty questions!

-2:03:17: 2 missed Grunty questions

Final Fight: very good

-2:07:21: missed egg shot on Jinjo statue

In a 3-D platformer with a certain amount of RNG (especially late in the game), this is pretty damn close to as good as you can hope for. I wouldn’t be surprised if Stiv eventually goes to the low 2:07’s if he wants to keep going…but 2:06:XX would be very, very hard to get, though not impossible. It doesn’t really matter if he never runs this again; we’ve gotten the great run we were waiting for. The run from FP1 to RBB will leave you weeping with joy if this is your thing.

It’s the most obvious “ACCEPT” I’ve ever given.

I have all my notes from the Youtube version of this run documented at home, and after I get back from work and watch this file tonight after family stuff (to make sure A/V is good), I'll put those comments in here, but for now, let me just say, if you are a fan of runs of this game, you should be on your knees thanking the universe or deity of your choice that stivitybobo exists and was willing to work on this for as long as he did.  Just an incredible run.  I wrote a speed guide for this game in 2003 where pushing 3 hours seemed the limit of possibilities.  Times change.

Edit, here it is:

Just to get the fawning out of the way before I start nitpicking: if you are a fan of Banjo-Kazooie and speedruns, your moment has arrived.  This run is delivered to you by the one person on Earth who is even close to this good at the game and playing publically.  Really exciting to watch this run get so much better in the last few years.  Stiv has realistically been racing himself for a long time (the 2nd place person is about four minutes behind him), but the community has kept finding new things, and he’s never stopped.  Caught this one live from RBB on.  Quite the treat.

I think it's 2:07:38 or 2:07:39 by SDA timing (stiv calls it 2:07:45, but SDA starts from character control, not file select).  The statid has the in-game time of 1:59:44 (the first sub-2:00:00 in-game time ever achieved).

The A/V looks a little washed out, but I don't think it's worse than what's on the site already, and it's a 1998 game.

Some examples of the little things that add up:

Using the flip flap jump to slide forward quickly when the amount of space is just right for the momentum into trigger points or similar.

Triggering the talon trot when going into doorways or other transitions so that the animation time does not overlap with gameplay.

Stomping just on the edge of switches (a couple of screw-ups as expected when you play it so fine, but a net positive anyway).

Using damage (bees in CCW) or “bounce off” properties (Tiptup in BS) to control B-K during cutscenes

A lot of clever Jiggyjig (that’s what I call the dance/cutscene when a Jiggy is collected) skips/overlaps (especially the two Jinjo “jump into water just at the right moment” skips in MMM and RBB)

Now for the nitpicking (I’m sure I missed some things and it's likely a couple of things I call out as mistakes actually aren't) hidden behind a spoiler wall…

[hidden]

SM: essentially flawless, Colliwobble location could have been better

MM: no significant mistakes

-3:02: gets hooked on a bit of collision in a roll toward the puzzle

TTC: very good

-9:00: pulls out talon trot too early, before the transition into the next room

+10:58: gets lucky with Blubber’s position to overlap Jiggyjig with Blubber’s exit

-12:43: messes up the talon trot slide to drop quickly underwater, has to dive (closest thing to a big mistake so far)

-14:06: slightly unlucky that he doesn’t get hit by the crab right after Jiggy collection, has to walk up to it to take the hit

-16:21: claw swipe instead of roll leading to…

-16:23: misses first stomp, has to stomp twice on “J”

CC: good

-17:04: messes up the flap flip off the cannon

-21:29: fires a fourth egg unnecessarily at the tooth

-23:20: doesn’t peck the grating as fast as possible

-23:52: a little late on the blowhole entry

-26:24: doesn’t reach the Jiggy spawn point in time to overlap the cutscene with the Jiggyjig (Mutie Snippets positioning luck?)

BS: very good

-34:05: misses egg shot on croc from behind (tough window)

-38:15: misses first jump at honeycomb in skull (on par with the "biggest" mistakes in the game so far)

-42:20: doesn’t get to avoid “play a harder game” text from Vile, Vile at the back of the room at finish

FP1: fucking fantastic

-44:28: messes up stomping switch

GV: very good

-50:20: fourth try Gobi clip (average-ish?)

-54:09: has to turn around and go back for note

-56:54: unfavorable Mum-Mum position, has to to turn around for note

-57:51: maze skip second try

-59:25: has to turn around for note

MMM: fucking fantastic

-1:06:18: couple of mishaps getting egg in flowerpot

-1:09:29: misses Mumbo token, will have to collect a slightly more time-consuming one later (in the upstairs sink, per runner's notes)

-1:10:38: claw swipe instead of roll on piano keys

FP2: fucking fantastic

-1:25:54: pretty sure meant to go into frozen water with 1 fewer energy so as to jump and flap out instead of swimming at the end, but possibly a route change?  Anyway, this is literally the only thing I see as possibly wrong with this level.

RBB: fucking fantastic (it was a personal best time and I'm being harsh with the nits I'm picking)

-1:27:44: didn’t hop forward into cutscene after hitting switch

-1:29:17: entrance into honeycomb tunnel could have been slightly faster/cleaner

-1:30:04: slightly long setup getting through second fan blade

+1:30:17: pretty sure it’s impossible to clip this wall faster than this, very TAS-looking

-1:30:46: messes up the insta-drop into the water

-1:33:15: couple of slight delays getting out of this room

-1:37:54: unintentional hit by shark (partly luck-based, I think) also forces honey collection in final room

+1:38:00: getting this Jiggyjig skip is very hard

CCW: very good (CCW is hard)

-1:40:35: messes up drop, gets stuck on tunnel edge

-1:44:09: third try at exit is pretty solid

-1:45:50: misses first stomp on switch

-1:49:11: misses note, has to go back

-1:51:01: takes hit, has to wait a while to collect note

-1:53:27: misses note, has to go back

-1:56:15: setup for egg fart onto window is a bit lengthy, takes two tries

-1:57:01: misses beak bomb onto roof, has to flap flip up

-1:57:11: pretty sure that slip off the roof was not intentional

-1:57:32: misses first jump up to platform with flight pad

-1:59:55: ascends prematurely, has to make second pass to grab flower Jiggy

GFF: bitten by RNG

-2:01:53: 5 missed Grunty questions!

-2:03:17: 2 missed Grunty questions

Final Fight: very good

-2:07:21: missed egg shot on Jinjo statue

[/hidden]

In a 3-D platformer with a certain amount of RNG (especially late in the game), this is pretty damn close to as good as you can hope for.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Stiv eventually goes to the low 2:07’s if he wants to keep going…but 2:06:XX would be very, very hard to get, though not impossible.  It doesn’t really matter if he never runs this again; we’ve gotten the great run we were waiting for.  The run from FP1 to RBB will leave you weeping with joy if this is your thing.

It’s the most obvious “ACCEPT” I’ve ever given.

HavocProdigy

2015-06-23 11:10:32 pm

I honestly can't believe that Banjo-Kazooie made it to public verification. With that said, I haven't seen the most recent record but if I get a couple of hours to spare, I wouldn't mind verifying. Spoiler: It's going to be an accept either way.

Judgy

2015-06-24 01:27:18 am

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

I'll be doing this today and yeah I'm surprised this even got to PV also ....

Judgy

2015-06-24 05:51:09 am

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

A/V: Good enough, there are some points where quick camera movements over some textures make i liike a bit ... icky and blurry but its good for the most part.
Cheating: None
Gameplay: Very good, just going to keep it simple for a more in-depth analysis read Uilnslcoap's post.

Easy Accept

mike89

2015-06-24 08:07:36 pm

SEGA Junkie

Interesting, it seems the definition has changed again to not include the double health. I didn't hear about this, but I've never been especially fussed either way, as long as it's consistent.

A/V: All good
Cheating: None
Gameplay: Sickeningly good. I looked at the end times for each level and I remember thinking those would have been unthinkable even a year ago. And now they're all in one run!

Accept in the strongest terms!

AlecK47

2015-07-01 03:48:00 pm

A/V good, no cheating detected

Well this one is easy. As others have mentioned, it's strange to see it here in public, but it's not as if you need an expert to tell you this run is beastly. Accept

SDAVerification

2015-07-20 04:38:49 am

Decision posted.

Hyperresonance

2015-10-11 03:44:58 pm

Stivitybobo and I just noticed this now. We aren't on SDA that often.

Why was this run rejected for being "heavily interlaced" when on the SDA instructions for how to use YUA to encode your video it suggests to select "interlaced" as input type for runs recorded on standard definition capture devices? I helped Stiv submit this because my Tooie run was accepted and I knew how to use YUA, and the video quality of his run looks no different than mine.

Stiv doesn't have the raw recording of this run anymore and could only potentially extract it from youtube. If he were to do that would he be able to somehow fix the A/V to be accepted here?

Greenalink

2015-10-11 04:48:17 pm

DS Dictator

Quote:

the video quality of his run looks no different than mine.

Well I had a look at your run and there is something that makes your video fine and Stiv's not, ghosting frames which is a big no.
It makes me wonder if he used a completely different capture card/raw record settings?

A youtube rip is compressed so the quality is going to be worse, very unlikely SDA will accept that as an alternate solution.

Attachment:

interlaced.jpg

UraniumAnchor

2015-10-11 09:36:03 pm

Not a walrus

Quote from Hyperresonance:

Why was this run rejected for being "heavily interlaced" when on the SDA instructions for how to use YUA to encode your video it suggests to select "interlaced" as input type for runs recorded on standard definition capture devices? I helped Stiv submit this because my Tooie run was accepted and I knew how to use YUA, and the video quality of his run looks no different than mine.

The raw is going to be interlaced, but you have to pick the right options in Yua or it won't DE-interlace it properly, as the final copies need to not be interlaced, but that's all you're going to get out of the N64 initially. Unfortunately this looks like it didn't have the proper options selected and just blended the interlaced fields together, making frames bleed into each other. Your run doesn't have this problem, presumably the options were correct when you encoded yours.

It's possible that the Youtube copy would work, but unlikely, and we'd have to see it to know for sure.

[quote="Hyperresonance"]Why was this run rejected for being "heavily interlaced" when on the SDA instructions for how to use YUA to encode your video it suggests to select "interlaced" as input type for runs recorded on standard definition capture devices? I helped Stiv submit this because my Tooie run was accepted and I knew how to use YUA, and the video quality of his run looks no different than mine. [/quote]

The raw is going to be interlaced, but you have to pick the right options in Yua or it won't DE-interlace it properly, as the final copies need to not be interlaced, but that's all you're going to get out of the N64 initially. Unfortunately this looks like it didn't have the proper options selected and just blended the interlaced fields together, making frames bleed into each other. Your run doesn't have this problem, presumably the options were correct when you encoded yours.

It's possible that the Youtube copy would work, but unlikely, and we'd have to see it to know for sure.