autosave abusing within a segment

2009-06-02 02:21:48 pm

I discovered a glitch in a game that can be pulled of using some sort of autosave abusing. It basically goes like this:

* cast a teleport spell (note: the teleport spell teleports the character within the current area)
* leave the current area before the character finishes casting the spell
* immediately reload the autosave that was created (the game creates an autosave when leaving the area)
* the teleport spell screwed up because of the autosave and the character is teleported to some otherwise unreachable place in the original area

Now I'm not sure if such a glitch would be allowed without creating a new segment because of the autosave. What do you think?

Thread title:

ZenicReverie

2009-06-02 02:53:58 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

my guess, it would be a new segment because you loaded the game from a save, but it might depend on how loading an autosave works.

julien

2009-06-02 03:04:16 pm

Loading the save requires you to go through the normal save game menu.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-06-02 04:58:36 pm

I presume you're basically asking whether this would be allowed in a SS run since in a segmented run there'd be no disadvantage to just putting in the extra segment?

I'm fairly sure the answer to that question is no.

julien

2009-06-02 09:34:43 pm

Well for a segmented run this would still add the 0.5s penalty for the segment but yes, I'm primarily asking for single segment.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-06-03 03:48:20 am

I don't think the admins would allow this, and I don't think they should. If you start allowing things like this in SS, you'll pretty much have to allow things like reloading to abuse save warping and the glitch in Q3 (I think) where you can reload a game in front of a thin wall while holding forwards to run through it. Soon there'll be no clear reason why SS runners can't just reload over and over to reattempt a difficult trick (as long as they time the failed attempts too) and then you've lost most of the distinction between a SS and a segmented run - the SS is just a shoddier version of the latter.

I can appreciate the philosophy you're coming at this from (that the SS should show the fastest you can complete the game in one sitting, and saving and reloading is a legitimate tool to use as long as the full time it takes is included) but I disagree with you.

Incidentally, surely the autosaves in BG don't attract the segmentation penalty? Isn't it only manual saves that get it?

ZenicReverie

2009-06-03 08:24:01 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

I believe it's all saves in a game where you can save anywhere that get the penalty when you segment, by the way the rule is worded.

There have been some rare cases where reloading/reseting during a SS were allowed because it would otherwise be impossible to get a 100% completion. Other than that, I can't think of any cases where a SS ever loads from a save game.

mikwuyma

2009-06-03 08:55:45 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

For segmented run that glitch is fine, but it can't be used in a single-segment run because you're loading the game.

Poesta

2009-06-03 09:06:32 am

Yarr

Quote from julien:

Well for a segmented run this would still add the 0.5s penalty for the segment but yes, I'm primarily asking for single segment.

I thought there was no time penalty for using autosaves?

ZenicReverie

2009-06-03 09:10:32 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Poesta:

Quote from julien:

Well for a segmented run this would still add the 0.5s penalty for the segment but yes, I'm primarily asking for single segment.

I thought there was no time penalty for using autosaves?

Oh, looks like you're right, no penalty for autosaves... this save penalty thing seems kind of weird.

Smilge

2009-06-04 08:45:27 pm

I was under the impression that there was no penalty for the game's autosaves, but there is a penalty for loading the game from any sort of save, which is .5 seconds.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-06-05 05:35:29 am

I think the penalty only applies when loading from a manually-created save.

dex

2009-06-05 07:23:53 am

Invisible avatar

Quote from ZenicReverie:

Oh, looks like you're right, no penalty for autosaves... this save penalty thing seems kind of weird.

It's to combat the you-can-save-anywhere-so-you-save-every-5-seconds philosophy. Autosaves are generally more spaced out, and the game does them for you, so it makes sense to me ;).

And yes, it is 'if the game has save anywhere, autosaves no penalty, quicksaves or normal saves 0.5 penalty', as per the FAQ:

Quote:

For games that let you save anywhere (i.e. without save points), a half second save penalty is added for each save. This is designed to discourage someone from potentially using thousands of segments in a run. We do not restrict segmentation in games with save points because the save points themselves are already a form of restriction. The half second penalty applies to both regular saves and quicksaves; menu time isn't counted for regular saves. However, autosaves incur no save penalty since the runner cannot avoid them.

[quote="ZenicReverie"]
Oh, looks like you're right, no penalty for autosaves... this save penalty thing seems kind of weird.
[/quote]
It's to combat the you-can-save-anywhere-so-you-save-every-5-seconds philosophy. Autosaves are generally more spaced out, and the game does them for you, so it makes sense to me ;).

And yes, it is 'if the game has save anywhere, autosaves no penalty, quicksaves or normal saves 0.5 penalty', as per the [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/lang/faq_en.html]FAQ[/url]:
[quote author=FAQ]
For games that let you save anywhere (i.e. without save points), a half second save penalty is added for each save. This is designed to discourage someone from potentially using thousands of segments in a run. We do not restrict segmentation in games with save points because the save points themselves are already a form of restriction. The half second penalty applies to both regular saves and quicksaves; menu time isn't counted for regular saves. However, autosaves incur no save penalty since the runner cannot avoid them.[/quote]