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That's an interesting trick, but I wonder if you could keep the chain going? if the enemies are close enough could it be possible? Although it would only save a few seconds altogether.
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-05-16 11:24:04 pm
Yeah, the double kill is a common knowledge between the veteran players of this game... It surely could save some seconds alltogether, but when you double kill, you use whether a gun bullet, or a throwing knife depending are you using the sword or the dagger. Those spplies are pretty limited when you speedrun, because looting/buying more of them takes more time than the double killing saves... BUt in some selected places if the ranged weapon management is good enough it could make things faster... For example say... In the Castello Crashers you could throw two throwing knives at those two guards in front of Caterina's cell... but again, it maybe be anly a second faster than killing them individually with the hidden blade...

About the Assassin's Recruits again. You are forced to visit a pigeon coop and the map at the Tiberius hideout 2 times in the game. Should the recruits put to a mission at the first pigeon coop so they would be at least a bit tougher at the sequence 8 when I need them most against the allmighty brutes. If one is a quick thumbed, it should not take more than couple of seconds, and they should be back in the beginning of sequence 5 when thay are needed in the senator misson. And if you want to live risky, they could be put to a mission with 50% success for more exp... But then again, they would not level up more than one level still...
You should first try to send recruits that are at the worst level to a great battle (for instance the one where you have the apple), in order to see if they will die or not. Then you'll have a reason to train them, or not.
Ok, I tried that just a minute ago, and if apple is used wisely, you really don't need to use time to upgrade them. I didn't lose any of them this time... But on the other hand, now I had 6 of them instead of 4 like my previous attempts. I think I should maybe even use the arrow storm during the "All roads lead to..." misson, 'cause there are many many Brutes in the beginning and those poor Recruits get slaughtered pretty easily by their axes.

OMG how I hate the Desmond parts in the end. It's so easy to screw everything up especially in the last room... Well, more training, more training Cheesy How much longer 'till the Halls of Nero ? x) LOL
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-17 06:17:56 am
Fed981: 2011-05-17 06:15:12 am
Fed981: 2011-05-17 05:04:36 am
Fed981: 2011-05-17 04:57:58 am
For the Desmond part at the end (I guess you mean the way to the apple on the weird walls/platforms) I can help also, but for this I have to finish the game again. I'll do it in the next days or weeks.

For the halls of Nero, I have to wait about 29 hours from now (look at the post time). Of course I'll continue to record the other missions.

Edit : have you had a look at thehiddenblade's forum? I just saw the method to use the hidden blade (!) in sequence 8 : go on a horse and then get down. Apparently it works each time.

Edit : the missions in the castello would be another great climbing moment, don't you think? ^^ Also I have a tip for hyperblending with a horse : actually you can't keep the glitch while simply going from the ground to a horse ; but you only have to jump, either from something higher, or from a guardrail (?).
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-05-17 07:22:44 am
fluojn: 2011-05-17 07:22:22 am
fluojn: 2011-05-17 07:18:06 am
fluojn: 2011-05-17 07:10:39 am
I have to try the horse thing... Hidden Blade would be soooo useful in that chapter...

I agree with you that the both visits in the Castello provide some serious Climbing action. I have climbed to the top of the flagpole and parachuted from there about 329 times 'cause my Fly Like an Eagle trophy was glitched... Cheesy I know the route pretty well Tongue

About the Halls of Nero... Does your run utilize the Leap Gloves much? It's sad I can't be using them in my attempt x) I usually finish the Lair about 2:45 to 2:30 left in the timer when I reach the treasure vault... And just realised that one can skip also those scenes where the water is filling the pool in the beginning!

I realised your videos have helped me very much, I tried a couple of your routes when running the sequence 1 again and got better time than ever (Horse catching tactic). Even did a couple double kills when fighting on the walls. I'm almost certain that the cannon part lasts always the same amount of time. I shot down more enemy cannons than ever and it didn't make it faster at all... Then I tried the way to the doctor at the beginning of sequence 2. LOL it took precisely the same amount of time both routes xD

And then I need to check how much money the Romulus Vault provides in their chests. If there is a good amount of loot, then I could also punch Macciavelli forward. I believe the Lair + pickpocketing while tailing the guards at the beginning could just make enough money to the Courtesan mission... It could make my third segment much better. (It's my favourite sequence to speedrun, nothing too hard)

edit: Also, have you noticed differences about the horses? I think the first horse you get from Macciavelli is the fastest. When you swith to another, say, the one that is waiting you at the bank of the river after the Thieves mission at the sequence 3 you can get much slower animal. I mean MUCH slower! I intend to try and keep the first horse as long as I can
I don't use the leap gloves in the halls of Nero (yeah, at the end, but you really don't need it). For the water cutscenes, I haven't been able to skip the cutscenes except the last one, where all is destroyed.

My videos are there to help, of course.

Finally, I continue to think that you don't need any money for the courtesan's mission. Only for the one with the banker. But I'll see.
I actually don't need the money? Always when I start the mission and I don't have the money, it says to me: "Collect 2500 florins" and gives tips about looting the chests and pickpocketing! Is there a way around it?
No, I'm sorry. It's only that you use the money you stole back to the bad guys to rebuild the building.
I did today a single-segment run of this game using the route I've been planning. As you can imagne, I had couple disasters on the way:

- At sequence 2 some people noticed me stealing when walking with Macciavelli and the guards came running. There were only 4 so I thought I kill them quickly, but nooooo, a horse guard joined also the fray.
- The running thief you need to tackle when he steals your money hid begind people and horses. Didn't lose so much time but it was annoying.
- Lacked 150 florins at the beginning of the sequence 3. Had to collect them.
- I tackled 4 Borgia towers at sequence 3. The 3rd one I didn't get the first try, cause I targeted a Brute instead the captain. And I got desync when escorting the thief boy... Can't leave sucker 1m behind Angry
- Fell from the Castello when first climbing and trying a heroic trick. Didn't try that again. Lucrecia is just annoying. Never running to the right way. Desync when escorting Caterina out. She got caught in a wall.
- Got 5 recruits at the sequence 4. When recruiting one of them, shitloads of guards attacked from the side of the road and the fight took waaaay too long. One desync when going for the blueprints of the machine gun.
- I forgot to recruit the sixth assassin so I didn't have the arrow storm at the sequence 5... Which was painful. One major fight against the guards at the senator escort mission... and ONE DEAD recruit. So now I had 4 left...
- One desync when tailing the box guy at the orgies.
- Didn't have the arrow storm at the beginning of sequence 6 so the first mission was painful. To add insult to injury, I tried to change the horse at the end of mission and triggered a war in the enemy camp. I picked replay memory and it went all the way to closing the gates bussines. I was so pissed!
- Didn't have the arrow storm when collecting the French suits. But it seemed it was faster to just use the individual assassin recruits. I got all 20 suits from one place. After collectin' them, I got the last 2 recruits and got arrow storm. Everything went smoothly from there at sequence 6.
- One desync at sequence 7. Micheletto saw my recruit...
- One gunman decided to camp beside a wall so I couldn't point him to the recruit. Had to climb Colosseums wall to get behind him.
- Second desync when assassinating the guy at the stage. Killed a wrong guy xD
- Messed massively inside the Castello at sequence 8. Fell 3 times in the first climbing room. Got my horse owned by Papal Guards when running for the Apple...
- My all assassin recruits died at the second Apple fight so I was left alone to face the legion of Brutes.
- 2 Desyncs against the Cesare... I tried the Blitzkrieg method, but he slaughtered me x)

And at the end the game clock was 3:31:45. What the heck!? So many mistakes and better than my test run, where I tried to polish the first 5 sequences so good I could... When segmented and done without those horrible mistakes this game can be played easily below 3 hours. As for the game clock goes at least. There were a little less than an hour of Desmond also...

What I noticed when playing was that the game uses every opportunity it gets to give you the slow-ass white horse. It's so slow that I almost desynched at the sequence 7 when tailing Micheletto! When you play the first Thieves Guild mission, the white horse waits at the bank. Bartholomeo gives you white horse at the sequence 6. All horses you get when riding with La Volpe at sequence 7 are those slow whites, even if you change to faster on in between the fights. The horses when tailing Micheletto are all white. What the heck?? Thats BS Cheesy You can wait to see LOTS of horse changing in my run!!

As for the purchases:
- I think it will be more effective to buy the smoke bomb pouch at the beginning of sequence 6 than crossbow... It makes the first mission so much easier.
- If there is enough money at the sequence 7, the crossbow is essential...
- At the end of sequence 7 before going to the last mission you start literally in front of Blacksmith shop. It's easy to replenish everything here.

Ok, after getting so good time single-segment and with horrible, horrible mistakes, I'm even more motivated for this run Cheesy
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-17 01:11:50 pm
As previously said, you really have to train yourself. Keep doing some stuff like this (SS training). Also, remember that you can use luck manipulation in a segmented run.

I'm saying this because of the horse. Yeah, a "tank" horse is slower, that's sure, but I'm also sure that you can have another one.

About your mistakes, I can't say much except : try to get luck and, most important, get more skill. I just recorded sequence 3, so you'll see how to do with the thief : don't hold constantly {feet} button.

Edit : my times for ACII. very first planning 9:19. then training and getting more tricks 7:50, 7:39, 6:34, 6:29, 6:11. first SS with capture 6:03. then, with SDA's help (!), another SS 5:53. final segmented time 5:42. Those are only a few of all the tries I did.
I usually don't get desync at the thief boy, bout this time he just got stuck with the people Cheesy It' s very good to have the luck manipulation option. There are suprisingly much randomness in this game... Where the horses spawn, where the crowds spawn. It's always different. I'm intending to grind and polish the segments before uploading anything... BTW how many segments did you have, and is the Desmond parts added to the total time? Because if it is, your run is phenomenal, because you can't skip the cuts at ACII which has I guess well over an hour worth of cutscenes... Well I'll be keeping a little break from running, lots of work the next two weeks x)
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-17 03:44:55 pm
Fed981: 2011-05-17 03:44:42 pm
18 segments (from 5 to 40 minutes). In-game timer time 5:42. Total video time 6:52 (I think I remember). And, yeah, I timed it : about 3 hours of cutscenes, including end credits and all the ones with Desmond.

But hey, that was just for you to see the times. We're speaking of ACB here xD. So I'll have time in the next two weeks to record some more missions. But tomorrow you'll watch until end of sequence 3 I guess.

Edit : by the way, I've got many ideas for the castello (horizontal jump while climbing, etc) ^^
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-05-17 10:11:56 pm
fluojn: 2011-05-17 10:11:28 pm
OMG, horizontal jumps are the worst xD They usually destroy my run at some point... If camera is even slightly to the wrong direction, wheee, Ezio jumps to his death.. Cheesy On the other hand, the run wouldn't be worth SDA if it didn't include some serious tricks. After deciding to take the arrow storm to he run, I've raised the number of my planned segments to 12. Every sequence, 2 of Desmond and sequence 4 in two parts, Castello and Man of the People mission in the first, the guild assassinations and the Machinegun at the second. The Machinegun itself is annoying enough... I have so short healthbar, that it's very easy to die at the chase. I thought that could be the only place I use my medicines if things get too hot... I think getting almost a desync costs time, because the screen slows down for a while. And last but not least, I think it would be a good idea to buy some armor at the end of sequence 7 at the same time when one replenishes the ammunitions. The longer health bar means wider apple destruction circle --> more kills --> faster. Money is pretty limited tough so I think maybe I should loot the chests at the Romulus Lair even if I didn't need them for the seq 3... What I need are Smoke Bombs 9800 florins, Leap Gloves 6800 florins and the Crossbow 11,000 florins... And 5500 florins for the story missions. It's 33,000 at least... I need to do a money management run to see which armors are in the price fork at the end Cheesy
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-18 03:27:53 am
Fed981: 2011-05-18 03:23:59 am
Fed981: 2011-05-18 03:23:06 am
Yeah, you should look how much money you can have at each point. Also remember that you can have luck manipulation, that means probably Borgia's messengers (and they're rich!) or random thieves.

If I manage to record it during my lunch break, the castello mission will be uploaded this evening ; tomorrow in the worst case. Also I thought that the colosseum will be a great climbing moment, but for this one the leap gloves are almost an obligation (?).

I've also replayed the fight against Cesare, and he's really a tank! But, if you don't fight him directly, maybe all pistol + knives ammo can be enough to kill him. I don't know yet.
I actually encountered a Borgia courier at sequence 2. He ran straight to me and could've been easily tackled, but I let him be, 'cause I wanted to test my route... But yeah, I should take them into account...

Colosseum climb I think is soooo much easier with the gloves. Actually, I have never done it without. It could be made pretty fast, 'cause getting to the floor you need to jump down to kill the gunmen isn't all the way at the top.

I encountered Cesare with 6 bullets, 5 throwing knives and 15 crossbow bolts... 6 bullets hit, 2 cutscenes. Then the other soldiers overwhelmed me and I needed to put them down before continuing with the crossbow. It takes way more bolts (and time) to get another cutscene so it might just be faster to hack and slash him after kicking him to the balls. Maybe a better sword could be added to the shopping list? Perhaps it's too much... I need to test the knives and overall make the battle faster. It's not the hardest pooint in the game... Cheesy
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-18 10:00:27 am
Actually I managed to beat him only with the crossbow (I don't remember how many bolts). At the beginning it's easy, and when the other guards come, you just have to run so that you have enough space to shoot Cesare. I definitely think that a sword or dagger isn't better than the hidden blade. But I'll see when I'll test this part for real.

Edit : playlist updated, with sequence 4 memory 1. Here it is :

Great runs man, great runs! Let me comment:

- I was amazed how similar our route was at the Halls of Nero. Without your superb wall jumps and the vertical jump, they are almost identical Cheesy I found only one thing that could make it faster and that is jumping to the first wooden platform in the throne room by wall jump, not via climbing the throne.
- Wow, the thieves guild mission doesn't involve losing your notoriety at the replay! That is very luck based for me, 'cause I want to encounter an eyewitness, and one poster when going back to La Volpe.
- Almost only the horse route in the Courtesan mission was different from my planned route in the entire sequence 3 missions (and of course leap gloveing the Borgia Tower). I'm glad to notice that you have thought the same way!
- OMG the castello climb!!! Amazing man! Those vertical jumps gave me the chills! Just brilliant. By the way, you don't need to get the next checkpoint that is on the walls after you climb and kill the guard with a hidden blade at the beginning of the mission. If you jump to the hay bale in the coutyard, the checkpoint changes automaticly to the scaffolds ahead... (or was it the roof?)

Very good job Cheesy I just hope I had the crossbow at that point xD I really want to see your runs of the Femme Fatale and the Burdens We Carry Cheesy Keep it up!
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-19 12:48:50 pm
First of all, remember that I won't speedrun for real. You will do it. But, yeah, thanks Smiley

I'm also glad you can find some more shortcuts comparing to the route I took.

I've finished Femme Fatale. It's not perfect but the mission is so annoying that I keep the one I have. I'll continue and see what I've done tomorrow evening to upload.

Edit : playlist updated, with sequence 4 complete.
Good job with the sequence 4! What the heck, you didn't have a guard waiting above the hay bale at the Burdens we Carry where you drop Caterina down Cheesy I always have a guard there x) And it never came to my mind that you could just dodge everything when making the stand after saving Caterina Cheesy I was just wondering how to best lose my notority after killing shitloads of guards. Even how much coolness a great kill chain would include, it's still faster to not get involved Cheesy Good call!

I have now everything to start recording (Yeah, the recording device actually works!). I need to wrestle a little bit with the quality, but I will be back sometime soon with segment 1 of my test recording Cheesy It may take more than a week, 'cause my real life needs attention now x)
I think that the guard above the hay bale with Caterina isn't there because I started the fight as soon as possible. In my first test walkthrough of the mission he was there.

And, yeah, after saving Caterina, the only thing you have to do is to wait, because otherwise the guards don't stop to spawn everywhere.

What do you think of Femme Fatale?
Quote from Fed981:
What do you think of Femme Fatale?

I really hate this mission... I liked the way how you triggered the fights together in the corridor, so Lucrezia doesn't have an opportunity to run away two times... I just thought would it be possible to run to trigger every fight before grabbing her, kill the guards, run to fetch her and carry to the cell without interruptions (not counting the struggles)? Would it be faster? I think it's good to let her run herself down the stairs, but if the guards interfere she could run all the way to the second courtyard or back to the garden (or what ever it is...) But I think there is no the best way to do this mission xD It's just plain annoying...
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-05-21 01:32:04 pm
Fed981: 2011-05-20 04:22:39 am
Despite it would be faster, I think you can't trigger all guards in one time : before catching her for the first time, they won't be triggered ; after, she'll escape and you'll be desync. But I'll make some tests in order to know exactly.

Edit : before struggling her for the first time, when Ezio speaks, you can trigger the first four guards and kill them. You can't do anything better in this mission. Also you can't move more than that, and I doubt about how much time it will save.

Edit : new videos in the playlist, with sequence 5 complete.
After getting the arrow storm the sequence 5 has become one of my favourites Cheesy It's sad that almost only the first and the last mission can be done faster, 'cause the others are tailing missions and going the right path with the chest... In the senator mission it helps tremendously if you have more assassin recruits! If they are sent to battle, the guards ignore the senator all together and one can run past them without them even flinching! The route to the top of the Pantheon was a new one to me, I always used to climb from the back of the building Cheesy Great!
New videos added, with sequence 6 complete.