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fluojn: 2011-04-10 09:56:23 am
fluojn: 2011-04-10 09:47:38 am
Right now there is going on an amazing marathon Japan Relief Done Quick and I have been watching it all time I could. It has inspired me so much I decided to register to these forums I've been following for years now Cheesy

About the topic. Assassin's Creed games have not been very popular to run and the threads for the first two games are not either. This is the case: Like many PS3 players know Assassin's Creed Brotherhood had infamously glitched trophies and I was no exeption in experiencing them. I needed to play the game all over again for a single trophy and of course I did it fast 'cause I didn't want to waste any time for my Platinum Trophy. Doing so I realised that the game could be speedrunned pretty fast. Much faster than AC II at least. Cutscenes are skippable and if the execution is tight, the missions are not an issue either. Ezio's mproved fighting skills and weapons speed up the game a lot.

What I'm asking is: There are probably many better AC players out there, but I think it's a big shame that there are no runs of any of the games. That is why I am going to collect suggestions where to save time in running the game and attempt (after lot of practice) to do a run. Single segment run would be awesome, but perhaps it could be  a little tense for a first run. And btw if someone is interested doing the run, I'd support 100%

Suggestions anyone? Cheesy (Back to the marathon)
Thread title:  
aka theenglishman
My best suggestion would be to run the PC version, if only for optimizing the camera.
I've already submitted my ACII segmented run for PC. In a few days I'll buy Brotherhood ; I won't speedrun it (at least in the next 18 months), but I'll be glad to help for planning.
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-16 02:09:35 am
fluojn: 2011-04-16 02:09:02 am
What are your thoughts about using the Assassin Recruits? Their Arrow storm ability is very useful for example at Sequence 6 but is their training and burning Borgia towers worth the saved time? If one is very skilled fighter, it might just be faster to kill the enemies with big kill chain than using time to recruiting...  Memory sequence 1 can be done in 18 minutes and I noticed that some of the cutscenes should not be skipped cause of the loading times. Sometimes it's faster just watch a cutscene that lasts less, than going into the menu, skipping the cinematic and watching the loading screen. It just needs to be timed what are those cutscenes.
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Hello Fluojn and welcome to the SDA forums, may your stay be a very pleasant one Smiley .

Anyway, to the topic, you are right about one thing, Assassin's creed is a great series to come out in recent time and it is a bit of a shocker why no one has submitted any runs (besides Mr. Fed), but part of the reason why I would think so is not just the length of the game, but how complex it can be.  I'm also sure that it took Fed a couple of months to know the best ways to get the kills in, precisely as well.  I'm not the best AC player, but I know enough of it to leave in a few small pointers.

I've seen the Recruits to be very effective (at times) when it comes to getting me the kills I need.  Granted that Arrow Storm is also good, but you might want to hang on to your recruits for as long as possible since they are very good when it comes to distractions.  If anything, I would probably say, get enough recruits to pull off the arrow storm and leave the rest behind.  You don't really need that many assassins to get the job done...

Outside of that, I would just say to practice your platforming with the game.  Especially at the end of the game where there is a heavy importance on how you stick your landings.  If you are going to be the one to run AC: Brotherhood, then let me be the first to wish you the best of luck.  Also when you record, it wouldn't be a bad idea to share your segmented WIPs with us on the forums so that we can see your progress and mention for anything that should be touched up.
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-18 10:00:03 pm
Training the sequence 1 (doesn't need so much planning) I noticed that the game's inner timer doesn't keep track of everything happening in the game. After sequence 1 timer would say below 18 minutes, when in real time there has been 25 minutes... With SDA rules the run time is determined using the game's inner clock, isn't it? I was just wondering, if the timer stops, like, at the loading screen, then all the cutscenes should be skipped. Is this the case, or does the timer stop during the cutscenes even if you don't skip them? O_o BTW during the Villa cannon fight, does the people flee faster if you shoot the big towers and then cannons or are the cannons way to go. In my experience thre is no much difference... Thanks for the encouragement MAS8705 Cheesy
Here is a quote from SDA rules :


We prefer to use consistent in-game timers wherever possible. If an in-game timer isn't available, a simple real-time measure is used. Timing begins when the player first gains control of the game's character, and stops when control is lost after the final event in a game. For segmented runs, timing for a segment stops at the first system-dependent activity, usually the actual saving. When loading, timing resumes at the point when the game was saving or displaying the password.

For games that let players save and reload anywhere, a half-second penalty is added for each manual save. This penalty counters a common problem where games drop frames immediately after a load and discourages players from potentially using thousands of segments in a run. The half second penalty applies to both quick-saves and saves made through a menu, but menu time is not counted when saving in a menu. We do not apply a penalty for segmentation in games where saves can only be performed at save points or in games where players warp to a predefined location upon reloading, since only being able to save at save points or reload at warp points is itself a restriction on segmentation.

Some games have a timer that can't be seen at the end of the game. In most of these cases the timer will be ignored. For some games, however, such timers are displayed on a menu screen that would be visible before the final event in the game; if this is the case, that time will be noted and real time will be appended from that point.
aka theenglishman
The in-game timer tracks only time spent in the Animus, much like Assassin's Creed II did.
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-18 10:00:33 pm
fluojn: 2011-04-14 12:33:21 pm
fluojn: 2011-04-14 02:10:27 am
fluojn: 2011-04-14 02:08:23 am
That is correct. I just was overjoyed to have 18 minutes played at the beginning of sequence 2... LOL. This being said, the Desmond parts should maybe be clocked manually or forget the inner timer alltogether.

Sequence 3 requires lot's of planning. In which order should the three ally missions be done? Courtesan mission is closest, but you need 2500 florines for it. Maybe it is possible to steal enough at the sequence 2 when tailing the Borgia guards and walking with Macciavelli... Or then do other missions first and have well enough money for rescuing the courtesan...
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-04-14 02:29:12 pm
I just received the game today, but the 2500 florins are stealed stolen to the slave merchants, so you don't need the money before the mission (I'm right, am I not?). Let me finish the game once and then I could start help planning for real Smiley
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Welcome to the joys of planning speed runs Fluojn... Smiley

Anyway, let me try and remember really fast... If I recall correctly, pickpocketing doesn't give you much florines, so unless if you are planning on mugging more than a hundred people, I don't think that will work... That said, (from what I read in gamefaqs) if you are short on money, then you need to pickpocket to get the florins then continue, it wouldn't seem right to go try and pickpocket during times you need to be moving, but if you try and start pickpocketing during the more slower times, then you might be able to make 2500 or get very close to it by the time the mission comes up...

But to clarify that last overlong sentence, You can have 2500 at the start of the mission and that should allow you to move on without trying to score another 2500..  Just remember to pickpocket whoever took the money so that you can still use it yourself...
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-04-15 03:18:33 am
Have you had a look at this playlist? It could be a help. (I haven't watched)

Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-16 02:01:27 am
I have indeed watched that playlist and unfortunately I wouldn't call it a speedrun... It includes all the cutscenes and the execution is not tight at all Sad I have searched for information about running this game around the internet but it seems many have not attempted it seriously... One guy wrote he finished the game inner clock time 5 hours and a few more (Desmond parts not included I quess) and had for example 16 desyncs and no retries because of the autosaves. I have now the inner clock time 1h 5 minutes at the end of sequence 2 doing a very loose test and planning run...

BTW I think the courtesan should be done first at the sequence 3 Cheesy 
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-04-15 06:15:14 am
Fed981: 2011-04-15 06:14:55 am
A few months after the release of ACII, a guy wanted to speedrun it in less than 10 hours. My time is 5:42:16, and the total videos are less than 7 hours long. Also, the first time I ran through the game with the idea of speedrunning, it was in 9:19:XX.

That's why I think ACB can be done in less than 4 hours with efficient planning and execution.

Do you want to do it in a single segment or...?
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-04-15 06:15:04 pm
Fed981: 2011-04-15 06:12:52 pm
Ok, I just finished the main story... great ^^

I may be wrong sometimes, but here are a few things I want to say (maybe they're obvious, maybe you know already, but let's do it) :

- moving : I could be totally wrong, but you should use tunnels as often as possible. If it's not efficient, use a horse ; it's a VERY good thing that you can't fall by bumping people while riding a horse. Despite the run with {active profile}+{feet} is unavailable most of the time, it's still faster than without horse. And if I'm right, the maximum speed with a horse is equal to the maximum speed of the fastest ennemies.

- climbing : do it as few as possible, try to focus on horizontal running rather than vertical climbing. It's really a shame that the up-jump (?) has been disabled, but, a new and pleasant movement is grabbing something at an perpendicular direction. What I mean there is : when travelling horizontally while climbing, jumb/grab/jump/grab/etc would be faster than simply hold the direction.

- fighting : of course, try to avoid it ; for instance with smoke bombs or appropriate planning. For all the fights you can not skip, I found Ezio quite efficient with the hidden blade, especially because he can perform assassinations in a middle of a fight whereas the ennemy health is not at zero. Also I like the kicks you can use, and this would help for strong ennemies ; counterkills are quite easy (like in AC2 before learning it), and very efficient, you can even perform a counterkill against an annemy attacking from your back. For the recruits, I think you don't have to train so much. I remember that you recruit 1 friend in a story mission, and this one (at least) has to be used in one mission. Ezio can easily fight by himself otherwise.

- glitches : hyperblending still exists in this game. I also saw some teleporting (when Ezio is between a person and a wall without some much space for instance) on a few meters but I don't know if it can be used.

- money : hiring groups and buying ammo doesn't need much money. Again, if I remember, there's only one mission where you have to own 3000 florins ; and at this part of the game you can have it, if not, try to meet a Borgia's postman or a chest for example. The only important thing you'll probably have to buy is the crossbow (~12000 florins), with the medium and big quiver. It's very efficient (1 arrow per usual ennemy) and you can carry many arrows.

Are you going to post videos of a plan before attempting for real, like I did? Or something else?
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-17 02:22:39 am
fluojn: 2011-04-16 02:07:41 am
fluojn: 2011-04-16 01:17:26 am
Ok guys, I finished my test run yesterday, and the inner clock says 3:35:11 (+ about an hour worth of Desmond) and to be honest it was quite loose run. I attempted the first sequences more times, but I went trough sequences 6-9 without reattempts and I was writing stuff down to remember when running for real... So I guess it could be shaved off certainly 30-60 minutes if not more. About Fed's tips:

Moving - Luckily most of the main scenarios are near the three factions which you can tunnel yourself easily from Lake Tiberius (or what ever it is). That way I think you should not buy too much tunnels, especially 'cause they require a trip to a Borgia tower. Maybe if it could be done fast in the midst of another mission. You need 4 assassin recruits in the end after all so why not benefit the tower placements too. I guess a tunnel near the Vatican bridge would be very useful, because there are couple of missions that require being there to begin. And about the horsetravel, yes it's VERY useful because I almost ripped my hair off when random people got in my way when doing my test run.

Climbing - I avoided all climbing I could. Riding the roads is so much faster than jumping at the roofs. About some climbing scenarios... You need to be super careful with the camera or Ezio will jump off your target by a hair. Jump/grab/jump/grab is useful and efficient at some points, but it's RISKY. It could ruin your entire segment.

Fighting - At my test run I guess the Blacksmiths didn't sell me smoke bombs before sequence 8. Maybe it has something to do with Borgia towers/amount of blacksmiths you own. And after that they were kinda useless Sad Maybe if the Borgia towers are done earlier in the run, they can be gotten earlier. One of the most useful sequences to use them is the sequence 6. About the fighting system of this game: I love it. If you are skilled enough, even if surrounded tons of enemies, you can defeat them all in one kill chain. At the later sequences (especially 7) there are many fights that include many participants and enemies spread far away from you, so the kill chain is not an option. They need different kind of planning. I am pretty sure it's not faster to get more than 4 recruits for the arrow storm, 'cause again, the Borgia towers take more time.

Glitches: I have never heard of hyperblending Cheesy Only minor skips I've noticed are skipping the first Villa cutscene gives you a horse gallop boost so you can get to the villa more quickly and at the Castello Crashers you can skip one cutscene if you are chased Cheesy

Money: This might be the key issue to shave time off. It's possible to collect 2500 florins to save a courtisan (sequence 3) by stealing at sequence 2 while walking with Macciavelli. I guess it's not wise to buy anything before the Banker chapter is done, where you need 3000 florins... I didn't buy anything and got enough money just the mission before it x) I didn't worry too much about the money at the later sequences. I bought the climb jump gloves from Leonardo and they were pretty useful when climbing the Colosseum walls. At the end I had over 20,000 unused florins. Maybe the best way to spend them would be the crossbow. It's a shame that you get enough money just when the game is about to end... Sad

I'm keeping a week off from playing AC and try to collect more info. Then the next week I'm intending to buy a recorder and try to post some segments to youtube or somewhere so you people can give me your opinions Smiley I plan doing the run in 11 segments. One for every memory sequence and 2 for Desmond.

BTW I hate the sequence 5 first mission SOOOOO much. Is there a consistent way to avoid guards attention while escorting the senator? The guards seem to spawn (they just pop up) at every corner of the city and the route game makes you to take is just stupid Angry I've tried using many ways (including courtesans and recruits) but there are too many. Senator always gets dragged in the battle... No other mission gives me so much grief. If you have thoughts, I'd appriciate it Cheesy

And another BTW is that I'm playing PS3 PAL version which is slower? I'm very used to PS controls and don't want to buy NTCS PS3 just for the run, but guess it shouldn't be a problem when there are categories at other games also Tongue
Edit history:
Fed981: 2011-04-16 03:41:21 am
Fed981: 2011-04-16 03:38:47 am
Fed981: 2011-04-16 03:24:32 am
Quote from fluojn:
I have never heard of hyperblending

Especially because you can ride a horse inside the town, this could be absolutely useful. Here is the method :

- go to a group of people in order to blend
- stay blended, walk silently and quickly to a non-standing surface** and go on it
- while you stay on any non-standing surface, even running, you keep being blended

** A non-standing surface represents all elements where Ezio can not stand : walls, barriers, ladders, water, and... HORSES!!!

Edit : let me show you on one of my videos. Here it is :

Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-17 02:54:32 am
fluojn: 2011-04-16 07:46:17 am
Wow, that looks like a very useful technique! I keep that in mind when starting to record. I remember seeing videos of something like Airwalk and other glitches but not this Cheesy

edit: It should be mighty useful in the missions you are tailing someone especially at sequence 7 where you enter many restricted areas.
Edit history:
fluojn: 2011-04-19 11:18:49 am
fluojn: 2011-04-19 07:24:11 am
fluojn: 2011-04-19 07:23:14 am
To keep discussion up waiting my capture card drop from the mail I'd like to share with you my plannings for first 4 segments of the run. Please comment and add your own opinions. I'll keep you updated with videos as fast as I get proper gear for it.

Segment 1 - Sequence 1 to first Desmond part

- I skip every cutscene in this seqment exept the one where you are talking to the guy who has lost Mario's horse and the one entering the sanctuary. It's faster just to watch the scene. Also, the Title cutscene can't be skipped.
- At the Vatican you can't save much time 'cause you're running with Mario. I plan to kill the guards with one kill chain and run only to guards that are in group of two (2 times). When climbing to the final tower, it is ok to go before Mario, so you don't need to slow down when he is climbing in front of you. It's not possible to go much in advance, 'cause Mario will stop running and further running causes desync Sad
- At Monterrigioni skipping the first cutscene and pressing R1+X you get little gallop boost when normally you can only walk with the horse.(saving 0,5 seconds LOL)
- Those random quests (flower, horse and cannons) should be done in that order, because it's faster to use the lifts to get to the cannons after catching the horse (which itself can ruin a segment if the animal doesn't co-operate)
- Lots of skipping before the Villa attack. After that using cannon on the opposing forces can't be done faster or slower, even though you shoot 2 cannons with every shot. They just prevent Villa from falling.
- I have never managed to get one kill chain at the fight against the attackers after cannon part. If I don't get the first brute in the cahin I usually shoot him. The next brute can be stealth killed with the hidden blade when he enters the area. (He can't be shot through the vail of desync)
- If you kill Claudia's attacker and keep running with her, she doesn't stop in the way to sanctuary. Only thing left is skipping the cutscenes

Segment 2 - First Desmond part to sequence 2

- Cutscenes can't be skipped Sad The level is very straightforward platforming so I'd like to have some suggestions how to make it faster. After getting to the Sanctuary I place the fuse boxes (or what ever thay are) left side of the villa where there are 4 places where you can put them almost in straight line. No much planning to do here. The biggest effort is to listen the conversation over and over again.

Segment 3 - Sequence 2 to sequence 3

I skip all the cutscenes exept a couple short nes where Ezio is commenting something to Macciavelli

- Limping from the left side is faster to get to the doctor I think. After healing yourself it's very staight run to the top of the church and to the hay bale.
- Tailing the guards is a perfect spot to steal some money for the first courtesan mission in sequence 3. I've gotten above 1000 florins at this little tailing mission. It's best not to have mad civilians start punching you, because it interests the guards a lot. I try to get very close to the guards before thay start the fight so I can finish them quickly in one kill chain.
- The next assassination is easy. You just run straight and take a lift to the upper cliff and air assassinate the victim. After that is my goal to run to Macciavelli so I'm beside him, when the chase sequence ends and the new mission pointer pops up.
- Walking with Macciavelli is another good opportunity to steal. In the way there is even one chest Cheesy
- It's very easy to killchain the Borgia guards and throw the captain in the scaffold to kill him fast.
- After catching the running thief it's fastest way to get back to Macciavelli taking a lift and climbing up the ramp.
- Pretty straightforward 'till the Followers of Romulus come in the picture. I plan to 1 killchain them and run for the Halls of Nero
- The Lair of Romulus is very good segment destroyer becouse all of the platforming. I usually tend to try faster movement and jump to wrong direction because the camera is not pointing the right way. There are some shortcuts you can take and many MANY risky jumps, where you need to be extra careful. I open the valves in the first room in the clockwise direction from 2 o'clock to 10 o'clock 'cause you don't need to go to the ground in between.
- That's it for that sequence. Only skipping left.

Segment 4 - Sequence 3 to sequence 4

- I should have more than 2500 florines in the beginning of the sequence so all I need to do is to gallop to the courtesans and go to butcher the thiefs. I plan to use horse as much as I can in this seqment 'cause there aren't any tunnels available yet.
- After getting back from the ship. It is galloping to the Barracks and catching the Borgia captain which is really easy and burning the Borgia tower. (2 Towers are story related. I'm trying to decide where I burn the other two towers that must be taken care of).
- It's a long way to La Volpe and the thieves, but with a horse it's not so bad. When rescuing the thief, I like to use throwing knives against the archers because they tend to go back and dodge your attacks. After escorting the boy it might be a good idea to burn the near Borgia tower 'cause it's pretty easy one. I'm planning to lose the notority going back to Thieves (that means I want to meet an eyewitness and rip one poster off). Ater doing these all I need to do is teleport to Tiberius Island and that's it for the seqment. Short and sweet.

Tell me what you think Cheesy I'd appreciate
Maybe I have to play again to really see, but all this sounds good. Just skip all cutscenes you can, because the pause and loading tiime isn't taken into account by the in-game timer.

For platforming, I can post a video, that would be better than writing a lot. You know, I finished AC2 about 50 times these months so my practice is good. It's only a shame in ACB that you can't change the camera angle while Ezio is climbing something.
Good call Fed, I was wondering if the loading time is taken into account. Ok, so every cutscene should be skipped.

Also I noticed, in sequence 3 there are 2 Borgia towers in the straight in your way when running the seqment so I figured it might be a good point to tackle those 2 other towers that needs to be done. It also helps when you have 4 Assassin Recruits from sequence 5 to 7.

I feel obsessed by this run x)
I was wondering if the time lost to burn the Borgia's tower will be balanced by the time saved with the arrow storm... I'm not sure.

For the in-game timer, yes, pausing, loading, and Desmond parts aren't taken into account.

Quote from fluojn:
I feel obsessed by this run x)

Don't spend too much of your time or energy for this, or you won't have some when you'll run for real anymore.
If burning one Borgia tower adds to your final time from 3-5 minutes (depending the position of the Captain and the climbing pattern in the tower itself) it's 6-10 minutes to the total time (6 towers burned is needed for arrow storm) which is not much, but I'm not sure if it really saves that much in return. The only big fights are at the sequence 6 and 8 and they are solved pretty fast with the killchain... And at the sequence 8 when you heve the Apple, I'd rather have my recruits fighti the repeatedly attacking guards than lose them all with the arrow storm... The Apple is not so reliable weapon when I don't inted to buy any new armor. But it needs to be investigated Cheesy I'll be watching your whole run sometime soon and try to produce as polished run as it is Cheesy
Ok, here is something for your "segment 2". Note that it contains obvious mistakes, but this is the idea.

I fell in I believe very common problem within the speedrunning community. I tried to find the cheapest way to record my footage purchasing EasyCap USB capturing device and I have to say that damn does it suck... It's not compatible with Win7 and the drivers I tried to find from the other sites give me Error error error... This might be a question to another forum alltogether but I'd like to know what would be a relatvely good and cheap capturing device for ps3.

Otherwise I would be ready to start recording test runs for everyone to review.

BTW I decided to tackle the other 2 Borgia towers at the end of sequence 3 and in the beginning of sequence 4. They are very fast towers and you can practically just run and kill the captains before climbing the tower. And Fed I think your video has a very good route and execution. Would you like running this game instead of me having the capture equipment and all? All I want to have is a speedrun of this game xD It's way shorter than ACII and the improved game mechanics have made it WAAAY faster to run Tongue But before I get the capture card that actually WORKS in any way this run is on hold at least for me...