An Untitled Story [any%, Insanity difficulty]

Patashu

2011-05-30 03:21:32 pm

Yeah just hit him earlier Cheesy

Arcanod

2011-05-30 05:49:22 pm

Quote from Patashu:

Yeah just hit him earlier Cheesy

Hitting him earlier to save up to 4 seconds?... You have really high standards! Grin

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Going back and redoing stuff because of a mistake in an earlier segment is pretty demotivating, I know, but four segments isn't massively much to redo in a run that has this many segments anyway. Given how tightly optimised the rest of the run is, I expect the mistake in the Curtain will just bug you forever if you don't fix it now.

Very demotivating, indeed, even for a few segments, but your arguments have finally convinced me (as I was really torn between the two possible decisions). Now I am forced to beat all my previous times, because I won't accept something slower than what I have already done...
That being said, it wouldn't have bug me that much, as I am mostly interested in the execution - and it wasn't strictly speaking an execution mistake.

Patashu

2011-05-30 11:48:33 pm

Haha, I apologise if you're making it look too easy.

Rooting for you to re-pull off the curtain, that new trick looks really snazzy and it'll make 99% of viewers go 'woah'

Arcanod

2011-05-31 03:30:43 pm

Dear friends and SDA members: IceBall is dead (again) 1,9 seconds faster than before. It is now a really great fight and I hope you will appreciate it, although I’m still far behind Patashu’s "requirements"! Wink

For the three new segments (12, 13 and 14), please see the first post for details about time differences.

The next orb guardian to pass away will be StoneEye, and the fight promises to be very, very hard.

Patashu

Edit history:

Patashu: 2011-05-31 09:30:57 pm

2011-05-31 09:22:09 pm

Okay, maybe 4 seconds was a bit optimistic, still a great improvement Wink

You should consider making an outtakes video for Stoneeye, that boss is so ridiculous! I had a tough time with it in Masterful mode, I found not jumping whenever possible to help survivability

EDIT: And don't feel like I'm hassling you, I'm just excited somebody's doing this! Feel free to ignore my posts Cheesy

Arcanod

2011-06-02 07:45:20 am

Your spectral Highness,

StoneEye has somehow passed away and Fluffy is looking for his gold orb after the suspicious red bird was venturing in his territory. I think the bird tries to collect all the gold orbs to enter our castle and challenge us. FarBall or DarkRed should be his next target; he has evaded all our ambushs so far, but I will send ghosts in these two locations to catch him once and for all before he becomes a threat. Please rest assured of our imminent success.

- BlackNinja, your faithful servant

Quote from Patashu:

EDIT: And don't feel like I'm hassling you, I'm just excited somebody's doing this! Feel free to ignore my posts Cheesy

No no, not at all, and I appreciate your posts (plus they make the thread more lively). Wink

BlueGlass

2011-06-02 07:10:48 pm

Yep yep yep!

Awesome FarBall fight; I doubt there's much room for improvement there. You're getting these segments out incredibly fast, like you're speedrunning your speedrun!

Also, whatever the weirdness is with the music, it's been pretty noticeable the last few segments. I'm assuming Blancland is next?

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 04:24:23 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 04:12:53 am

2011-06-03 04:12:13 am

Yeah, I wouldn't want to swear that there's no possible way to do that boss faster, but if your way isn't perfect it must be damn close.

You lose time in the room after the boss, though. You don't need to jump onto the higher floor directly below the teleporter in order to be able to jump into the teleporter; you can do so straight from the floor below the orb.

Also, at 0:42 after you split the one remaining enemy into two at the right hand side of the screen, I was surprised to see you then attack the rightmost enemy that was produced, and then have to chase the left-hand one over to the other side of the screen. My gut tells me that attacking the left-hand one should be faster. Did you try that?

Arcanod

2011-06-03 06:54:44 am

Quote from BlueGlass:

I'm assuming Blancland is next?

You're right. And thank you for your support. Smiley

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

You lose time in the room after the boss, though. You don't need to jump onto the higher floor directly below the teleporter in order to be able to jump into the teleporter; you can do so straight from the floor below the orb.

Yes, I realized that too... a very stupid mistake, isn't it?

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Also, at 0:42 after you split the one remaining enemy into two at the right hand side of the screen, I was surprised to see you then attack the rightmost enemy that was produced, and then have to chase the left-hand one over to the other side of the screen. My gut tells me that attacking the left-hand one should be faster. Did you try that?

I didn't try that way. But indeed, it could be faster... Actually, I'm now pretty sure it will be significantly faster, as I made a test video to see what could be done:

At 30s, its is (certainly) possible to kill the small enemy who evades me, and kill the last ones on the right even before they jump towards the red barrier and split.

[quote="BlueGlass"]I'm assuming Blancland is next?[/quote]
You're right. And thank you for your support. :)

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]You lose time in the room after the boss, though. You don't need to jump onto the higher floor directly below the teleporter in order to be able to jump into the teleporter; you can do so straight from the floor below the orb.[/quote]
Yes, I realized that too... a very stupid mistake, isn't it?

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]Also, at 0:42 after you split the one remaining enemy into two at the right hand side of the screen, I was surprised to see you then attack the rightmost enemy that was produced, and then have to chase the left-hand one over to the other side of the screen. My gut tells me that attacking the left-hand one should be faster. Did you try that?[/quote]
I didn't try that way. But indeed, it could be faster... Actually, I'm now pretty sure it will be significantly faster, as I made a test video to see what could be done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtqHzkecWF8

At 30s, its is (certainly) possible to kill the small enemy who evades me, and kill the last ones on the right even before they jump towards the red barrier and split.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-06-03 07:29:17 am

Quote from Arcanod:

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

You lose time in the room after the boss, though. You don't need to jump onto the higher floor directly below the teleporter in order to be able to jump into the teleporter; you can do so straight from the floor below the orb.

Yes, I realized that too... a very stupid mistake, isn't it?

Yep.

Stupid mistakes happen to everyone, though, and are one of the reasons that posting segments as you go along, like you've done, is such a good idea and more people should do it. Smiley

Quote:

I didn't try that way. But indeed, it could be faster... Actually, I'm now pretty sure it will be significantly faster, as I made a test video to see what could be done:

At 30s, its is (certainly) possible to kill the small enemy who evades me, and kill the last ones on the right even before they jump towards the red barrier and split.

Nice.

I look forward to seeing v2 of this.

By the way, do you reckon you could upload your save so that we can have a play with that boss and see if there's any other faster methods? Even in this new route, there's still quite a few seconds spent travelling left and right without bouncing on any enemies and I'd be interested in seeing if that travel time can be reduced further.

[quote="Arcanod"][quote="ExplodingCabbage"]You lose time in the room after the boss, though. You don't need to jump onto the higher floor directly below the teleporter in order to be able to jump into the teleporter; you can do so straight from the floor below the orb.[/quote]
Yes, I realized that too... a very stupid mistake, isn't it?[/quote]

Yep. :P

Stupid mistakes happen to everyone, though, and are one of the reasons that posting segments as you go along, like you've done, is such a good idea and more people should do it. :)

[quote]I didn't try that way. But indeed, it could be faster... Actually, I'm now pretty sure it will be significantly faster, as I made a test video to see what could be done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtqHzkecWF8

At 30s, its is (certainly) possible to kill the small enemy who evades me, and kill the last ones on the right even before they jump towards the red barrier and split.[/quote]

Nice. :) I look forward to seeing v2 of this.

By the way, do you reckon you could upload your save so that we can have a play with that boss and see if there's any other faster methods? Even in this new route, there's still quite a few seconds spent travelling left and right without bouncing on any enemies and I'd be interested in seeing if that travel time can be reduced further.

Arcanod

2011-06-03 08:31:26 am

If you wish (see attachment), but I think - don't take it wrong - that you are really optimistic this time... Lips Sealed

A minimal amount of travels will always be necessary, and testing different executions (by dive-bombing on enemies in mid-air, for example) to reduce it will take you a very long time.

Attachment:

UntitledSave1

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 09:06:48 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 08:59:09 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 08:58:37 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-03 08:56:44 am

2011-06-03 08:55:46 am

Hmm, actually I'm not skilled enough to test what I wanted to test, but essentially my idea is this: always attack whichever enemy is furthest to the left of the screen. Ideally, that way you could keep all the enemies to the right of you, bunched up more than they would otherwise be, and you can just keep on getting in hit after hit and finish at the right hand side of the screen. It certainly feels like this boss should be beatable just bouncing straight from one enemy's head to the next, without ever having to travel along the screen to chase enemies down.

It just feels wrong to me that at 0:05 in your new vid, where you first have to choose between attacking the enemies on the left or on the right, you go for the ones on the right, who are trapped by the right-hand wall, and allow the ones to the left to escape to the other side of the screen where you'll later have to track them down.

Arcanod

2011-06-03 09:41:20 am

The version 2 of the segment is out.
I'm leaving right now; we'll discuss your last post a bit later. Wink

Arcanod

2011-06-03 01:46:32 pm

Well, sorry but I will move on. It is probably possible to save a small amount of time here or there but, as I said, it would take so much time to test the different possible hypothesis.

What you’re saying here seems easy on paper, but I fear it definitively can’t be achieved in practice. Also, you’re talking about attacking the left enemies at the start of the battle. I strongly believe it is pointless; you couldn’t handle the right ones and would be immediately surrounded. Plus, the initial plan is to focus on destroying the most enemies as possible at the start, and, if you attack by the left, you can only hit half of them. If time can be saved, it must be during the 2nd part of the battle, I’m pretty sure about it.

Anyway, I thank you for having incited me to modify the strategy at 42s (on the first video). A time-savings of 2,8 seconds is a very nice improvement. I just hope you won’t be angry when reading these lines.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-06-04 03:23:27 am

Your reasoning seems sound. I hadn't really noted how many simultaneous hits you were getting that wouldn't be possible if you went left first.

Looking forward to segment 22. Smiley

Patashu

2011-06-04 07:15:41 am

You leave the water with 8 ticks of breathing left - how much time would it save to leave with 1 tick of breathing left? Not to mention look totally badass.

Also, cleanest kill of farball I've ever seen

Arcanod

Edit history:

Arcanod: 2011-06-04 08:45:26 am

2011-06-04 07:31:36 am

~~It would save around 1,3 seconds. You're right: leaving the water with 8 units is too much. But leaving with only 1 unit is rather... precise!~~ (edit: I'm tired, sorry.)
I will improve it and post the v2 when I'm done.

EDIT: to answer your question, it would save 0,233 seconds (and not 1,3 as I said!).
Regardless, I just did a v2, which is 0,067 seconds faster (yeah!). But, there is a ghosts ambush and I leave DeepDive with only 1 air unit! Wink

Patashu

2011-06-04 10:08:06 am

lol yesssss

Arcanod

2011-06-04 10:44:32 am

Sorry Patashu, I eventually made a v3 because I wanted to improve the first jump in the next to last room, and there's no ambush anymore. Plus I leave the water with 3 air units. embarassed

This v3 is 0,234 seconds faster than the v1. I will now begin the next segment (which will be extremely easy).

Too bad that the following attempt was not successful; it would have been quite epic:

Patashu

2011-06-05 07:39:51 pm

The trick you mention for darkred (hitting the big fireball before it even comes out) really only works on the first hit? It'd be a big timesaver if you could do it on all four hits. Still an interesting thing I didn't know Smiley

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:01:05 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 04:54:25 am

2011-06-06 04:09:59 am

Sorry to say there's (what I'm fairly certain is) another obvious/stupid mistake in segment 24. In the room below the save point, you don't need to cross to the other side of the room to be able to jump up to the screen above. The platform at the left hand side of the screen is at the same height as the one on the right hand side.

Indeed, you can even start your jump on the screen before.

Also, there's a slightly faster way to activate the torches to summon DarkRed, which is to fire the shot fired towards the final torch ASAP, then light the first torch while waiting for that shot to reach the final one.

Also, you can save yourself three screens of falling in the Longbeach segment by starting from the final Icecastle save point instead of from the one in The Curtain.

Arcanod

2011-06-06 05:01:17 am

For your pleasure, here’s a first attempt of BlackCastle full of serious flaws. Smiley

The second room (with all these damn bubbles falling off the ceiling) can be done at least 10-15 seconds faster. By the way, this room is a waste of time, and the author is really a sadistic man for putting it in such a long and hard segment.
At 1m46, yes, I almost died.
At 2m35, it is perhaps possible to not shoot the ghost before falling (need to try).
At 2m45, it will be slightly faster to dive-bomb.
The room at 3m06 is – at least partially – random, but it’s possible to improvise without decelerating (it went fine here).
At 3m12, I re-entered the room because I was not sure to be well-positioned.
At 3m27, I know I’m ridiculous, please don’t laugh.
And finally, I arrived too late at 3m43…

Quote from Patashu:

The trick you mention for darkred (hitting the big fireball before it even comes out) really only works on the first hit? It'd be a big timesaver if you could do it on all four hits. Still an interesting thing I didn't know Smiley

I tried, of course, but it really seems to work for the first hit only.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Sorry to say there's (what I'm fairly certain is) another obvious/stupid mistake in segment 24. In the room below the save point, you don't need to cross to the other side of the room to be able to jump up to the screen above. The platform at the left hand side of the screen is at the same height as the one on the right hand side.

Damn it! You're right! I don't know why, I was convinced that the two platforms were at a different height. Roll Eyes

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Also, there's a slightly faster way to activate the torches to summon DarkRed, which is to fire the shot fired towards the final torch ASAP, then light the first torch while waiting for that shot to reach the final one.

Omg, you are right again!

For your pleasure, here’s a first attempt of BlackCastle full of serious flaws. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rdHTLqmAM

The second room (with all these damn bubbles falling off the ceiling) can be done at least 10-15 seconds faster. By the way, this room is a waste of time, and the author is really a sadistic man for putting it in such a long and hard segment.
At 1m46, yes, I almost died.
At 2m35, it is perhaps possible to not shoot the ghost before falling (need to try).
At 2m45, it will be slightly faster to dive-bomb.
The room at 3m06 is – at least partially – random, but it’s possible to improvise without decelerating (it went fine here).
At 3m12, I re-entered the room because I was not sure to be well-positioned.
At 3m27, I know I’m ridiculous, please don’t laugh.
And finally, I arrived too late at 3m43…

[quote="Patashu"]The trick you mention for darkred (hitting the big fireball before it even comes out) really only works on the first hit? It'd be a big timesaver if you could do it on all four hits. Still an interesting thing I didn't know :)[/quote]
I tried, of course, but it really seems to work for the first hit only.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]Sorry to say there's (what I'm fairly certain is) another obvious/stupid mistake in segment 24. In the room below the save point, you don't need to cross to the other side of the room to be able to jump up to the screen above. The platform at the left hand side of the screen is at the same height as the one on the right hand side.[/quote]
Damn it! You're right! I don't know why, I was convinced that the two platforms were at a different height. ::)

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]Also, there's a slightly faster way to activate the torches to summon DarkRed, which is to fire the shot fired towards the final torch ASAP, then light the first torch while waiting for that shot to reach the final one.[/quote]
Omg, you are right again!

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:02:58 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:02:52 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:02:46 am

2011-06-06 05:02:18 am

Oops, you posted just as I was editing. In case you missed it:

Also, you can save yourself three screens of falling in the Longbeach segment by starting from the final Icecastle save point instead of from the one in The Curtain.

ExplodingCabbage

2011-06-06 05:06:46 am

BTW, I'm disappointed to see that you're choosing to waste time going to the save point in Blackcastle rather than combining your current segments 27 and 28 into one segment.

...

Just kidding. Smiley

Arcanod

2011-06-06 05:11:51 am

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Also, you can save yourself three screens of falling in the Longbeach segment by starting from the final Icecastle save point instead of from the one in The Curtain.

Well... you are right again. And it saves around 7 seconds. I don't know what I would do without you! Thank you.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Just kidding. Smiley

Wow... I thought you were serious! Please don't traumatize me like that! Grin