An SDA Decline...

2016-01-20 09:27:39 pm

I'm addicted to games

As far as I know there is no current effort under way to port old runs into the database. New submissions are all put into the database before posting. So the easiest way to get all of SDA into a database is to obsolete all those old runs by submitting improvements. Tongue

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2016-01-21 09:43:41 pm

2016-01-21 06:14:37 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from Radix:

As far as I know there is no current effort under way to port old runs into the database. New submissions are all put into the database before posting. So the easiest way to get all of SDA into a database is to obsolete all those old runs by submitting improvements. Tongue

Gonna have to admit...that's quite a tall order since apparently people don't want to submit improvements now. So it might just be better off to get started on porting those old runs unless somehow people are more convinced to start submitting again. :/

I don't mean any disrespect, I just thought it might be better to think of something at least to work off of. I apologize if that came off as rude.

Xelotath

2016-01-22 10:48:01 pm

Don't know if it would be doable but maybe it would be possible to make a "template" for data migration, that way people can take the content of a page and format it correctly in that template for import after reviewing. That way nobody has to have admin access to the database. I am working on a database migration project at work and that's pretty much how we do it. We can export the data but some things just can't be done by the machine.

The front page really needs improvements, I like the news posts but it shouldn't be just that. A column with runs needing verification, maybe community spotlights, hot topics of discussion. If solving the database issue would enable something like that I think it's worth it to try and fix it.

I have no knowledge on the backend of the site and I don't want to put pressure on anyone by the way, everyone has an outside life and I applaud anyone doing admin work in their spare time. I used to come here a lot to lurk back before marathons started before registering, this place is how I discovered this hobby and the reason I started speedrunning, I think this place is still relevant, it's just that some adjustments are needed.

I'm not very active right now but I love the speedrunning community and hope we can grow while maintaining respect, I think there's a big focus on drama right now and I think it affects us negatively. Constructive criticism can get lost in the drama and the drama often overshadows the good things happening.

I apologize if any of this seems insulting, I'm not the greatest with words...

Don't know if it would be doable but maybe it would be possible to make a "template" for data migration, that way people can take the content of a page and format it correctly in that template for import after reviewing. That way nobody has to have admin access to the database. I am working on a database migration project at work and that's pretty much how we do it. We can export the data but some things just can't be done by the machine.

The front page really needs improvements, I like the news posts but it shouldn't be just that. A column with runs needing verification, maybe community spotlights, hot topics of discussion. If solving the database issue would enable something like that I think it's worth it to try and fix it.

I have no knowledge on the backend of the site and I don't want to put pressure on anyone by the way, everyone has an outside life and I applaud anyone doing admin work in their spare time. I used to come here a lot to lurk back before marathons started before registering, this place is how I discovered this hobby and the reason I started speedrunning, I think this place is still relevant, it's just that some adjustments are needed.

I'm not very active right now but I love the speedrunning community and hope we can grow while maintaining respect, I think there's a big focus on drama right now and I think it affects us negatively. Constructive criticism can get lost in the drama and the drama often overshadows the good things happening.

I apologize if any of this seems insulting, I'm not the greatest with words...

Radix

2016-01-23 08:07:16 am

I'm addicted to games

I'm sorry to say it but there have been way too many times over the years when someone offers to redesign the site, does a little work, and then stops without completion. I can't pay money to do this. A "professional designer" would probably charge thousands of dollars. We've had redesign threads in the past. People offer help. We talk to them. We get sketches. That's all that's happened. I'm sorry the news looks ugly but there's the reason. There's only so many times I feel like I can bug someone for progress, and I don't really blame them for not wanting to work on something for free.

Sonikkustar

2016-01-23 11:26:44 am

The Great Farming Empire

Quote from Radix:

I'm sorry to say it but there have been way too many times over the years when someone offers to redesign the site, does a little work, and then stops without completion. I can't pay money to do this. A "professional designer" would probably charge thousands of dollars. We've had redesign threads in the past. People offer help. We talk to them. We get sketches. That's all that's happened. I'm sorry the news looks ugly but there's the reason. There's only so many times I feel like I can bug someone for progress, and I don't really blame them for not wanting to work on something for free.

That's kinda the reason why I said that we shouldn't rely on one person to do this. If only one person was doing this, of course they would be demotivated to continue. Nobody want's to do all the work by themselves. Tongue

Also, I thought before any redesign work can be done, all of the pages have to be migrated anyway. So the least we can do is to start by just trying to bring more things into the database before we start talking about new paint jobs. I do like Xelotath's idea about making a standardized template, although i'm not sure if that's already happening since pages seem to be updated automatically now. I guess we can try to see how many variations in templates there already are and to group them based on similarities. From there, it would be a matter of working with the right template to port. The only things is that I don't know how many variations there are. So that might also take a while... :|

[quote="Radix"]I'm sorry to say it but there have been way too many times over the years when someone offers to redesign the site, does a little work, and then stops without completion. I can't pay money to do this. A "professional designer" would probably charge thousands of dollars. We've had redesign threads in the past. People offer help. We talk to them. We get sketches. That's all that's happened. I'm sorry the news looks ugly but there's the reason. There's only so many times I feel like I can bug someone for progress, and I don't really blame them for not wanting to work on something for free.[/quote]
That's kinda the reason why I said that we shouldn't rely on one person to do this. If only one person was doing this, of course they would be demotivated to continue. Nobody want's to do all the work by themselves. :P

Also, I thought before any redesign work can be done, all of the pages have to be migrated anyway. So the least we can do is to start by just trying to bring more things into the database before we start talking about new paint jobs. I do like Xelotath's idea about making a standardized template, although i'm not sure if that's already happening since pages seem to be updated automatically now. I guess we can try to see how many variations in templates there already are and to group them based on similarities. From there, it would be a matter of working with the right template to port. The only things is that I don't know how many variations there are. So that might also take a while... :|

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2016-01-23 11:30:17 am

2016-01-23 11:30:05 am

I'm addicted to games

The redesign and the database migration are independent. I'd like to see just the front page / news / rules / faq redesigned. That can be separately from anything else. The next step could be to redesign the game pages, and use that as a template for any game pages being generated by runs in the database. So then some game pages would show the old design and some the new. After that as runs migrate to the database, the old design eventually goes away. Unfortunately I don't know what all is involved in that particular process.

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2016-01-23 10:52:11 pm

2016-01-23 10:51:54 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Showing the game pages that are already in the database with a new design would be a great indicator of which pages still need to be ported. It would just be a matter of making a design itself.

If those pages you mention can be redesigned and replaced separately from everything else, then it's just a matter of deciding on a design to work with. But first, we probably should find people that are willing to implement it through and through since I can't code for shit. Tongue

Perhaps we should take this to PM if you want to continue our little conversation, unless there are others that want to chime in. I just don't want to derail anything here that's all.

Sonikkustar

2016-02-04 06:25:32 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Well, It's been quite a while. I came up with some ideas that might help aside from simply saying "redesign the pages" or "migrate all the pages". Although, It depends on whether or not other people are gonna actually be invested in helping or not.

I guess it would be nice to have it in a separate discussion, but I'd rather not just start a topic only to have it die out again.

AlecK47

2016-02-05 01:18:35 am

I'd like to help out, but I have no expertise in the needed fields. If some of your ideas involve things that don't require any web development or programming experience, I'm all ears.

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2016-02-08 08:44:31 pm

2016-02-07 11:13:17 am

The Great Farming Empire

Oh god no. I wouldn't want to try and induce any programming/web dev stuff immediately out of the gate. That would be awful Tongue

. I guess you could say that I would want to first start out small before I try to do more ambitious things.

I guess to put it quite simply, why don't we just make a page with a list of all of the game pages that need to be migrated/updated to the database? From what I can tell, people can get really motivated seeing a giant list of things to do go down. At the top of this page would just be a short statement like "These are the pages that need to be updated. All you have to do is either PM a mod to help migrate or simply submit an improvement for that page!" I dunno, something like that I guess.

Also, If the biggest worry about a redesign is having someone commit to actually making code for it without getting burnt out, then why don't you set up something like a sourceforge or github? That way, more than one person could work on it at the same time.

I know these ideas are so simple it's stupid, but I guess this would be a start at least to help gather interest from others that want to help.

Oh god no. I wouldn't want to try and induce any programming/web dev stuff immediately out of the gate. That would be awful :P . I guess you could say that I would want to first start out small before I try to do more ambitious things.

I guess to put it quite simply, why don't we just make a page with a list of all of the game pages that need to be migrated/updated to the database? From what I can tell, people can get really motivated seeing a giant list of things to do go down. At the top of this page would just be a short statement like "These are the pages that need to be updated. All you have to do is either PM a mod to help migrate or simply submit an improvement for that page!" I dunno, something like that I guess.

Also, If the biggest worry about a redesign is having someone commit to actually making code for it without getting burnt out, then why don't you set up something like a sourceforge or github? That way, more than one person could work on it at the same time.

I know these ideas are so simple it's stupid, but I guess this would be a start at least to help gather interest from others that want to help.

TheMG2

2016-03-30 12:51:06 pm

Quote from moooh:

Some quick notes regarding some things people wrote:

Game page code format not being changed: This is incorrect. Game pages were changed to be automatically generated for all new games and for pages containing only runs submitted after October 2012. Pages with mixed old (pre-oct-2012) and new runs still have to be updated manually though. This, until all the old data has been migrated.

Site re-design: We are pretty much tied down when it comes to this. We can't really do a re-design until all runs are migrated and migration is a pain (see below).

Migrating old runs: This is a huge block of work that remains. Runs from before October 2012 only exists on the game page, so they are not in a database. Since pages were done manually, there are tons of variations to the templates unfortunately which would make scripting imports of this info a very very time consuming thing to construct. The migration will likely require a lot of human help who can match unstructured data way better than a machine.

Adding human help: We've wanted to crowd source the migration process for years now but have always been stopped by the fact that the way the backend is set up, a user would have to have full trust in order to use it. Recently UA made work to have the backend support split privileges which has enabled us to add more news updaters without giving full access. I'm hoping this feature can be expanded enough so that we can start adding people that has the time to work with and oversee migration as well. This requires UA's time though, and his availability has been low for quite some time now unfortunately.

Time: This year, several staff members have seen their available spare time drop slightly due to various reasons not only related to GDQ events. We've had barely enough time to maintain daily operations but still not in the pace we would like. Since almost all of our available time has gone to daily operations, no one has really had the time neccessary to screen for, add and teach any new people for some of these parts. This will obviously not work in the long run so I wish I had time to appoint someone that could appoint other people Cheesy

I hope we can free up some of IsraeliRD's time with all of this (because he's doing a huge amount of work atm) so that he can help me free up some of my time so that we together can start working with all the various things that can make this site better and allow us to work with more people. There's really not a lack of visions or ideas, I've got plenty of those.

Any updates on this?

[quote="moooh"]Some quick notes regarding some things people wrote:

Game page code format not being changed: This is incorrect. Game pages were changed to be automatically generated for all new games and for pages containing only runs submitted after October 2012. Pages with mixed old (pre-oct-2012) and new runs still have to be updated manually though. This, until all the old data has been migrated.

Site re-design: We are pretty much tied down when it comes to this. We can't really do a re-design until all runs are migrated and migration is a pain (see below).

Migrating old runs: This is a huge block of work that remains. Runs from before October 2012 only exists on the game page, so they are not in a database. Since pages were done manually, there are tons of variations to the templates unfortunately which would make scripting imports of this info a very very time consuming thing to construct. The migration will likely require a lot of human help who can match unstructured data way better than a machine.

Adding human help: We've wanted to crowd source the migration process for years now but have always been stopped by the fact that the way the backend is set up, a user would have to have full trust in order to use it. Recently UA made work to have the backend support split privileges which has enabled us to add more news updaters without giving full access. I'm hoping this feature can be expanded enough so that we can start adding people that has the time to work with and oversee migration as well. This requires UA's time though, and his availability has been low for quite some time now unfortunately.

Time: This year, several staff members have seen their available spare time drop slightly due to various reasons not only related to GDQ events. We've had barely enough time to maintain daily operations but still not in the pace we would like. Since almost all of our available time has gone to daily operations, no one has really had the time neccessary to screen for, add and teach any new people for some of these parts. This will obviously not work in the long run so I wish I had time to appoint someone that could appoint other people :D
I hope we can free up some of IsraeliRD's time with all of this (because he's doing a huge amount of work atm) so that he can help me free up some of my time so that we together can start working with all the various things that can make this site better and allow us to work with more people. There's really not a lack of visions or ideas, I've got plenty of those.[/quote]
Any updates on this?