Alone in the Dark 3

2016-06-17 08:08:44 am

Shut up and go back to another earth

Hi there !

I finally have enough motivation to work on this damn episode, and I really hope we'll find anything able to make a run shorter or less boring than I think it actually is. I don't delude myself though, I'll be glad if at least one person is on board with me on this one =p

To have a good start I suggest you to look the actual official WR, a brand new one from a week ago. You can find it on Speedrun.com or on Tweet. Here's a link:
http://www.speedrun.com/run/0y625gpz

I also put a link where you can download Tigrou's viewer, it can be an huge help to find something, or eeven have a good perspective of the general map of the game: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Alone_in_the_Dark_(1-3)/Additional_Resources

I played and tested severel things in the game and as far as I know, the route on the video is really good. The guy was pretty clever and thought about a lot of things. It'll be a good standard route to begin with. On the other hand he didn't apply it quite well and the run as itself is not clean, he evens dies one time and loses like 30sec. To be honest I already have a record with a better time despite the fact that my performance is ugly. But anyway, I'll talk about the modifications I brought for my own route, without talking too much about menu interactions.

Roof of the prison:
-Kill Jim Burris the "Lone Miner": I chose to kill him by using the shotgun with the gold you can steal him (by using the whip). it asks less actions and the menuing is easier/faster
-The fuse for the dynamite: I take it only after I took the dynamite, instead of grabbing it during Lone Miner's death, I open the door where the hangman is.

Saloon 2nd floor:
- Key behind the mirror: As soon as the mirror begins to move after you pushed it, you can runaway. The game'll give you the key no matter how far you are.

Indian cave:
it is possible to do the section with 8 jumps instead of 9. However, it asks to position yourself correctly, wich may cost more time than doing it normally.

Bank 1st floor:
It is useless to kill the whip guy, you only have to kick him three times to make the other one appears. He'll be stuck by Morrison later so he won't be a problem.

Bank 2nd floor:
The code device: as far as I know you can't manipulate how many time Carnby'll take before trying the good number so... RNG manipulation
The stolen amulet: if you drop the amulet before opening the safe, you won't have to kill the banker to take it back.

Inside the mine:
Spider-guy: There's a chance he directly goes drink into the red fountain as soon as you enter the room. If you manage to use the potion on the fountain before the end of his animation he'll die a lot faster, allowing you to moving forward. Maybe there's a way to manipulate him to do so ? As far as I know, climbing the wall without him dead is impossible, as he'll instantly target you if you try.
Cobra: If you're lucky enough he won't jump into you before the first shot. If it's the case you'll be able to kill him easily. If not, he can be pretty annoying. Beating without the shotgun seems very impossible.
Trapped corridor: Kill the guy and take directly his knife. Then just after launching the Amnoniac bottle, press down. Carnby'll step back during the "cut-scene" and he'll be directly at the end of the corridor when you'll take back. Nice little trick. Also, the more you'll awake Emily, the less it'll take time for the trap to come back to its neutral position
Boss: Two things here ! It's not an obligation to use the evil wand on the Totem to make Elwood brothers dissapear. If you directly go open the water and cut the electric cable, Jed Stone'll be at the good spot to die (usually he walks in the whole room before having his feet into water). Doing this creates a little bug though. Usually Carnby steps back when he cuts the cable. As, in this sequence, Jed Stones dies instantly, it cancels the step-back animation. As a result, direction controls do not anwser anymore AND Carnby is stuck into the wall. Fortunately You can still make it out: dropping an item'll bring back controls, then you'll just have to hit forward with the knife and you'll be free from the wall.

Here it is, that's all I discovered so far. No OOB, clip, big skip or anything. My actual ugly run has a time of 29:08. For now a clean run could probably make sub28 or at least something around 28. Except if someone finds other tricks of course. If someone know something or have any ideas, please don't be shy =p

I also have te report a bug that happens sometimes, I'm not sure what causes it. On the roof the prison, sometimes Carnby kinda "noclips". He can't fall anymore. So I Can't go back into the prison, I can't "jump" into saloon's window anymore and I can grab the golden eagle that I normally grab as a puma. This last detail may be interesting as there may be a way to skip the whole puma section. I doubt it though because every item dropped on the floor disappears after Carnby reborns as a beast (well to be more accurate, I can say that items disappear when Carnby re-born, I didn't check it as a Puma). I think what causes this weird bug is when you use the scorpion bag too close to the hole, but I'm not sure. I'll try to figure it out. In any case, if it's impossible to cancel the bug after grabbing the golden eagle, it'll be useless anyway.

Thread title:

Hi there !

I finally have enough motivation to work on this damn episode, and I really hope we'll find anything able to make a run shorter or less boring than I think it actually is. I don't delude myself though, I'll be glad if at least one person is on board with me on this one =p

To have a good start I suggest you to look the actual official WR, a brand new one from a week ago. You can find it on Speedrun.com or on Tweet. Here's a link: 
[url]http://www.speedrun.com/run/0y625gpz[/url]

I also put a link where you can download Tigrou's viewer, it can be an huge help to find something, or eeven have a good perspective of the general map of the game: [url]https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Alone_in_the_Dark_(1-3)/Additional_Resources[/url]

I played and tested severel things in the game and as far as I know, the route on the video is really good. The guy was pretty clever and thought about a lot of things. It'll be a good standard route to begin with. On the other hand he didn't apply it quite well and the run as itself is not clean, he evens dies one time and loses like 30sec. To be honest I already have a record with a better time despite the fact that my performance is ugly. But anyway, I'll talk about the modifications I brought for my own route, without talking too much about menu interactions.

Roof of the prison:
-Kill Jim Burris the "Lone Miner": I chose to kill him by using the shotgun with the gold you can steal him (by using the whip). it asks less actions and the menuing is easier/faster
-The fuse for the dynamite: I take it only after I took the dynamite, instead of grabbing it during Lone Miner's death, I open the door where the hangman is.

Saloon 2nd floor:
- Key behind the mirror: As soon as the mirror begins to move after you pushed it, you can runaway. The game'll give you the key no matter how far you are.

Indian cave: 
it is possible to do the section with 8 jumps instead of 9. However, it asks to position yourself correctly, wich may cost more time than doing it normally.

Bank 1st floor:
It is useless to kill the whip guy, you only have to kick him three times to make the other one appears. He'll be stuck by Morrison later so he won't be a problem.

Bank 2nd floor:
The code device: as far as I know you can't manipulate how many time Carnby'll take before trying the good number so... RNG manipulation
The stolen amulet: if you drop the amulet before opening the safe, you won't have to kill the banker to take it back.

Inside the mine:
Spider-guy: There's a chance he directly goes drink into the red fountain as soon as you enter the room. If you manage to use the potion on the fountain before the end of his animation he'll die a lot faster, allowing you to moving forward. Maybe there's a way to manipulate him to do so ? As far as I know, climbing the wall without him dead is impossible, as he'll instantly target you if you try.
Cobra: If you're lucky enough he won't jump into you before the first shot. If it's the case you'll be able to kill him easily. If not, he can be pretty annoying. Beating without the shotgun seems very impossible.
Trapped corridor: Kill the guy and take directly his knife. Then just after launching the Amnoniac bottle, press down. Carnby'll step back during the "cut-scene" and he'll be directly at the end of the corridor when you'll take back. Nice little trick. Also, the more you'll awake Emily, the less it'll take time for the trap to come back to its neutral position
Boss: Two things here ! It's not an obligation to use the evil wand on the Totem to make Elwood brothers dissapear. If you directly go open the water and cut the electric cable,  Jed Stone'll be at the good spot to die (usually he walks in the whole room before having his feet into water). Doing this creates a little bug though. Usually Carnby steps back when he cuts the cable. As, in this sequence, Jed Stones dies instantly, it cancels the step-back animation. As a result, direction controls do not anwser anymore AND Carnby is stuck into the wall. Fortunately You can still make it out: dropping an item'll bring back controls, then you'll just have to hit forward with the knife and you'll be free from the wall.

Here it is, that's all I discovered so far. No OOB, clip, big skip or anything. My actual ugly run has a time of 29:08. For now a clean run could probably make sub28 or at least something around 28. Except if someone finds other tricks of course. If someone know something or have any ideas, please don't be shy =p

I also have te report a bug that happens sometimes, I'm not sure what causes it. On the roof the prison, sometimes Carnby kinda "noclips". He can't fall anymore. So I Can't go back into the prison, I can't "jump" into saloon's window anymore and I can grab the golden eagle that I normally grab as a puma. This last detail may be interesting as there may be a way to skip the whole puma section. I doubt it though because every item dropped on the floor disappears after Carnby reborns as a beast (well to be more accurate, I can say that items disappear when Carnby re-born, I didn't check it as a Puma). I think what causes this weird bug is when you use the scorpion bag too close to the hole, but I'm not sure. I'll try to figure it out. In any case, if it's impossible to cancel the bug after grabbing the golden eagle, it'll be useless anyway.

LotBlind

2016-06-17 01:14:21 pm

There's a whole bunch of "outtakes" from the work put into Alone 1 -- that is there's tricks that don't do anything for that game but that might do for 2 or 3 in case they didn't get patched. They're mostly in my personal notes for now (and a bunch of them are in the Alone guide itself, which is horribly dated now), but I'm going to make a shortlist of those that have any kind of potential. Keep an eye out for this kinda stuff NHG!

-Throwing sharp things actually hurts enemies (I learned of this today)
-having a different weapon in your hand (and other objects that affect the way your model looks) may in rare cases have an effect on how certain scripts work: this relies on the programmers having made a mistake though. Still worth testing e.g. falling to your death with different weapons out.
-can open a door behind you (or activate some other effect) while being knocked back by weapon recoil, enemies etc. but not necessarily by just backpedaling into it due to how the code works
-the new "hover"/jump trick: can also be activated by drinking a potion in the air
-having more zombies etc. objects in the same area may affect the game behaviour outside of just lag (or more like because of it)
-objects which can be pushed around without the push command may be pushed through doors (if they're small enough)
-entering menus may not completely freeze every process: if there is some wait somewhere that doesn't freeze when you're in the inventory, you could use the time to rearrange your items or something
-if you can lure enemies between places you normally couldn't, they may attack each other; also maybe you can get them to hit each other while aiming for you; or be hit by other hazards?
-going up stairs is fastest if you first rotate yourself to face them perpendicularly (confirm this plz!)
-double doors can be closed one door at a time (that's good to know right! Cheesy

)
-try shooting through doors or thin walls

Aside from the guide and that, I don't think I've got any leads for this game.

There's a whole bunch of "outtakes" from the work put into Alone 1 -- that is there's tricks that don't do anything for that game but that might do for 2 or 3 in case they didn't get patched. They're mostly in my personal notes for now (and a bunch of them are in the Alone guide itself, which is horribly dated now), but I'm going to make a shortlist of those that have any kind of potential. Keep an eye out for this kinda stuff NHG!

-Throwing sharp things actually hurts enemies (I learned of this today)
-having a different weapon in your hand (and other objects that affect the way your model looks) may in rare cases have an effect on how certain scripts work: this relies on the programmers having made a mistake though. Still worth testing e.g. falling to your death with different weapons out.
-can open a door behind you (or activate some other effect) while being knocked back by weapon recoil, enemies etc. but not necessarily by just backpedaling into it due to how the code works
-the new "hover"/jump trick: can also be activated by drinking a potion in the air
-having more zombies etc. objects in the same area may affect the game behaviour outside of just lag (or more like because of it)
-objects which can be pushed around without the push command may be pushed through doors (if they're small enough)
-entering menus may not completely freeze every process: if there is some wait somewhere that doesn't freeze when you're in the inventory, you could use the time to rearrange your items or something
-if you can lure enemies between places you normally couldn't, they may attack each other; also maybe you can get them to hit each other while aiming for you; or be hit by other hazards?
-going up stairs is fastest if you first rotate yourself to face them perpendicularly (confirm this plz!)
-double doors can be closed one door at a time (that's good to know right! :D )
-try shooting through doors or thin walls

Aside from the guide and that, I don't think I've got any leads for this game.

NHG

Edit history:

NHG: 2016-06-19 08:18:48 am

NHG: 2016-06-19 08:17:46 am

2016-06-17 03:00:50 pm

Shut up and go back to another earth

Oh I see, thanks a lot !

There's at least some of them that I already know they don't work for having tested it (you can't open the menu during a jump anymore) of simply because the situation doesn't exist anymore (guns don't have recoil, no objects to push without "push") but I'll keep that in mind. As far as I know I instantly tested every (even "useless") glitchs/tricks that we found in Alone 1 and there isn't a single thing who works. This game is so scripted, they weren't kidding with this one.

Edit: Okay I tested more or less everything and so far so nothing.

-Tigrou explained to me the "fly" glitch (it was indeed activated by using the scorpio bag too close from the hole) and as far as I know it's impossible to desactivate it (wich is an obligation to progress). It could be a way to skip the last door of the roof (that you have to open with sheriff star+ whip) because you can go OOB and come back behind the door. As for the golden eagle, it's impossible to drop it as Carnby so even if it did not dissapear after Carnby's death, it can't be useful anyway. Also, duplicate the fly-glitch somewhere else seems impossible as there is not such a situation somewhere else in the game (a hole where you have to use something in it). Simply dropping an item at the edge of a cliff does not work, Carnby will fall.

-More generally in the game, all tricks&glitches based on "activate an animation during something" who worked on the first game don't work here. Carnby simply stops what he is doing to let the script happens. So, drink a potion before being assaulted by spikes does not do anything, drop something just before a camera de-focus or to pass through a "death line" does not do anything neither, etc...;
-As I said, no recoil with a weapon or shot. Some kind of hits can make Carnby stepback (like Cobra). As far as I can tell it can't be useful, most of the doors I use need keys anyway.;
-Hover/jump trick: Can't be activated here;
-No existing objects to psuh "freely";
-There are some spots where menu may not freeze some processes: in the room with Arizona Kid and just after Morrisson's meet (A FRIEND OF EMILY !!!), the timer before bad guys arrival is not influenced by menu, it may be an occasion to drop some items. I think the little "lag" between the moment when you press "enter" and the moment when the menu appears is wasted though. But you have enough time to drop 4 items, wich is useful for interacting with menu later so... It may be good (at this moment the inventory is a mess). There's also during the elevator at the end but there's nothing useful to do at this moment. Note that it's possible to obtain the same effect with "echap". Echap menu is usable with most of the doors, sometimes with funny results but nothing really interesting. As you can die for being too long shrunk into the mouse hole, keep the menu open don't stop the counter. I think that's it;
-Ennemies can fire themselves but as I avoid them constantly it's not really usable;
-The fast climb with stairs and ladders is still possible when perpendicular is still possible;
- There's not the "close" action anymore

Oh I see, thanks a lot !

There's at least some of them that I already know they don't work for having tested it (you can't open the menu during a jump anymore) of simply because the situation doesn't exist anymore (guns don't have recoil, no objects to push without "push") but I'll keep that in mind. As far as I know I instantly tested every (even "useless") glitchs/tricks that we found in Alone 1 and there isn't a single thing who works. This game is so scripted, they weren't kidding with this one.

Edit: Okay I tested more or less everything and so far so nothing.

-Tigrou explained to me the "fly" glitch (it was indeed activated by using the scorpio bag too close from the hole) and as far as I know it's impossible to desactivate it (wich is an obligation to progress). It could be a way to skip the last door of the roof (that you have to open with sheriff star+ whip) because you can go OOB and come back behind the door. As for the golden eagle, it's impossible to drop it as Carnby so even if it did not dissapear after Carnby's death, it can't be useful anyway. Also, duplicate the fly-glitch somewhere else seems impossible as there is not such a situation somewhere else in the game (a hole where you have to use something in it). Simply dropping an item at the edge of a cliff does not work, Carnby will fall.

-More generally in the game, all tricks&glitches based on "activate an animation during something" who worked on the first game don't work here. Carnby simply stops what he is doing to let the script happens. So, drink a potion before being assaulted by spikes does not do anything, drop something just before a camera de-focus or to pass through a "death line" does not do anything neither, etc...;
-As I said, no recoil with a weapon or shot. Some kind of hits can make Carnby stepback (like Cobra). As far as I can tell it can't be useful, most of the doors I use need keys anyway.;
-Hover/jump trick: Can't be activated here;
-No existing objects to psuh "freely";
-There are some spots where menu may not freeze some processes: in the room with Arizona Kid and just after Morrisson's meet (A FRIEND OF EMILY !!!), the timer before bad guys arrival is not influenced by menu, it may be an occasion to drop some items. I think the little "lag" between the moment when you press "enter" and the moment when the menu appears is wasted though. But you have enough time to drop 4 items, wich is useful for interacting with menu later so... It may be good (at this moment the inventory is a mess). There's also during the elevator at the end but there's nothing useful to do at this moment. Note that it's possible to obtain the same effect with "echap". Echap menu is usable with most of the doors, sometimes with funny results but nothing really interesting. As you can die for being too long shrunk into the mouse hole, keep the menu open don't stop the counter. I think that's it;
-Ennemies can fire themselves but as I avoid them constantly it's not really usable;
-The fast climb with stairs and ladders is still possible when perpendicular is still possible;
- There's not the "close" action anymore

LotBlind

2016-06-19 01:38:54 pm

In 1 (for what it's worth) I believe the zombie in the attic has a running countdown even when in the inventory, and the hook doors also have that.

Anyway good luck! Sounds like it's every bit as dry as the desert it's placed in...

Djeez12

2016-06-24 06:59:08 pm

Ah, I was wondering when you were gonna tackle this game down. I'm glad you're doing it because the run I got a couple of weeks ago was obviously awful, and wasn't even meant to be a speedrun per say. I had just beat the game casually in 4-5 hours and then did it again the day after and that was the result. I did watch your little series of videos on youtube about the game, being french myself, and tried out your pillar jumps in it which surprisingly worked.

NHG

2016-06-25 06:01:16 pm

Shut up and go back to another earth

Oh, you here, I am glad ! Don't get me wrong, as I said your route was excellent, you didn't let anything to chance and you even showed me a thing I did not know (using the war stick is not necessary in the graveyard). For someone who barely trained himself 5 hours, the result was pretty good ! Don't underestimate yourself ^^ I'm still trying to find anything who can be useful ans save a little time for now, I can't really say when the route'll be ready. In any case if you want us to talk (french'll be easier =p) don't hesitate to PM here or on Youtube ! It'll be a pleasure Smiley