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The first SDA run for this game is out now.

That's why I wanted to get this public thread started. So far the runner (NHG), Aqfaq and myself have been discussing all sorts of strategies and tricks in a private thread because we wanted to leave some of them as a surprise (maybe watch the run first). You can read the strategy guide page and the notes I'm going to copy paste over here to get an understanding of what's been found out so far.


-You could clip through the library door to get out. I think it's faster.
-Doing clips faster! NHG didn't realize in most cases you just need to get the clip started and you can already run through the wall without having to slowly clip further and further. This would save 5 seconds or more easily.
-Pass the bird with one jump: if you do air curving during the jump to go round the bird the bird's second attack misses you and you save a tiny bit of time albeit with slightly increased risk.
-Push the boulder behind the pirate chest from the left not the right. This is probably both safer and faster.
-Find a way to do the talisman or false book missile grab. To summarize, it seems you have to make the arrow or axe enter the room from a side where it immediately touches the item in question with the camera following it. This is what causes the game to think the player is collecting the item. This is easier said than done and there is no known easy setup for it but it's probably possible to do.
-Get the cutscene skips after placing the talisman and after throwing the lantern. This is mentioned in the tricks page.
-Is it faster to throw the drawer key at the bird instead of hitting it? It might not be.
-Could you clip into the secret room using the vagabond? (so far no luck)

If you wanted to do a segmented run more strategies (incl. the ones mentioned here) could be incorporated and further time saved. Feel free to use the thread for discussing any of this. The clips table linked in the strategy guide is incomplete (and a little bit messy). I'll get back on it later.
Thread title:  
Before I forget about this, because we know that during "cutscenes" (whenever the camera focuses on anything other than the player) only objects close to the cutscene are loaded in even though you retain control. Because of this, during the nightgaunt deaths you can actually get anywhere on the 3rd floor, including places you're not supposed to be able to reach (walking across the deadly floor for instance). Whenever birds appear (and other cutscenes), it should be tested whether this could be used for any sort of skip. Bird cutscenes are far shorter than the nightgaunt deaths are though.
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-06-25 08:12:14 am
NHG: 2015-06-25 06:39:12 am
Shut up and go back to another earth

I just read your post about cutscenes, it gave me an idea kinda tricky to realize but I tried it and it freaking works !!!
Let me explain: first I found a thing more or less interesting. In 3rd floor, there are two ways to trigger the zombi-chicken: it appears 3 or 4 secondes after taking the vase OR it appears if you come in the room, leave it and come back. It is interesting to note that if you come in the room, leave it and save&load, it brings back counter to 0 so you can enter the room 2 times again before the monster is coming. Another thing about that, if you manage to leave quickly the room after taking the vase (frankly you have to be perfect with your move, the time is short), the monster wont come. In another words, in a way or another the room itself is a trigger, the monster can't appears if you're not in it. But that's a detail.

When you said that "during cutscenes you can actually get anywhere, including places you're not supposed to be able to reach", I thought "hey, maybe it includes monsters hitbox too"... See where I'm going ? I hope so because it totally works !!! If you're make a good move, you actually can pass through nightgaunts during zombi-chicken cutscene and use the stairs ! I didn't route the move yet because I came here litterally 5 secs after founding this but except in the improbable case where the actual route with mirrors is faster, it could be an huge improvment AND a really cool trick ! I work on that now. I'll eventually upload a video to show you that !

Edit: Well it seems that my good old Myrillis recorder doesn't work anymore with this wonderful Windows Last Update so I can't record for now. I have to find my way to a new Myrillis first !

Edit 2: Here's the result ! I kinda mess up with my move at some points but it shows the trick
Edit history:
LotBlind: 2015-06-25 12:24:49 pm
LotBlind: 2015-06-25 12:18:34 pm
It should be tested for once and for all which side of the stairs is faster now that you can choose one. Or is there a problem with reaching the other side? EDIT: Just tested it and the right side (if you were standing at the door looking towards the nightgaunts) is about 1 second faster, but is the other side faster to reach?

EDIT: My computer is running slow for some reason, I'll see if it's better tomorrow or Sat. I edited the new trick in.
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-06-25 01:26:25 pm
NHG: 2015-06-25 01:25:52 pm
Shut up and go back to another earth
I just succeed by taking the other way. It seems faster, also kinda harder. At least it's easier to miss the move but I'm sure it wont be a problem with training. I think you're right, even if both of the paths were equidistant I'm pretty sure the animation where Carnby goes down is shorter by the right !

Edit: I just compared two videos, Right is faster indeed by something like 2 sec. So right side it'll be ! ^^
Shut up and go back to another earth
Hi again !

After our conversation LotBlind I tried many things in the library floor and here's some results:

When I'm OOBing to through the library to reach the clock room, we saw that I could find some solid object in the way. To be sure of what it was I simply launched an item against him and then I came back to the real world to see where it was. The solid wall happens to be the fake desk who leads to the hidden room (with the talisman). The clock is also here, a little bit further to the right and it's possible to push it even if it's totally useless. The book is also here as a solid wall, useless as well.

As for arrows and axes, I wanted to check if it was considered as "cutscenes". As we now know, during a cutscene ("whenever the camera focuses on anything other than the player" as LotBlind said) it's possible to avoid certain things. I think in a sense it works almost as OOB works. The game only loads the room where "the action" is. When Carnby is in the room where the first chicken Zombi is, the room is loaded with everything: items, various triggers, decor hitboxes and borders of the map (wich seems to be different than decor). At the same time, some rooms next to this one are loaded but  not entirely. Borders are here, but triggers and decor hitboxes seem missing. So when the chicken zombi appears, a cutscene happens (the camera focuses on the monster). During this time I can quit the room. As "the action" is not in the corridor, not everything is loaded. Walls are here because it's considered as map borders, but decors (the door), items (I left one to the floor and Carnby did not felt it,it's also important to note that items with an hitbox can't be grabbed but still block the way by their physical presence, we saw that with the fake book in my old path) and triggers (broken floor) are not here. And as the next room shows us, monsters hitbox aren't loaded neither.

To come back to arrows/Axes in painting corridor, I wanted to be sure it worked the same. It's complicated to try because as the weapon follows you it's hard to be in a different room than it. I succeed to pass through a door though, so as far as I know it works as the chicken zombi does. After that, I naturally tried to pass through the hidden room using this method. Saddly it does not work. Somehow this damn fake library is not considered as a simple door (decor) but as a map border only disappearing after using the fake book. If I try to cross observations I even want to think that this piece of wall works as an item-hitbox because I can't pass through it while OOBing whereas I can pass through traditionnal walls. In any case, it seems really impossible to glitch the game in this part, except using the reeeaaaaally random arrow method (that I did again by accident during my tests).
Edit history:
LotBlind: 2015-07-12 04:21:04 pm
You should read all the stuff I wrote and copy-pasted in the strategy guide: I had already mentioned that the arrows etc. are exactly the same as the bird crashing through the window. Also I tried to come up with names for everything so we should just call them "objects" and "walls".

TBF the book and the triggers that give you the book were always different so it's not a surprise that it exists as a physical object you can't pass through, or rather it is rather pointless that it exists in that form... It's just normally inside the desk which won't let you collide with it. I guess placing the false book removes the secret door (which clearly is NOT a wall because it wouldn't be loaded in when OOB-ing) the same way as the nightgaunts disappear after placing the mirrors. I don't know why an arrow can make the secret room load in but you can't OOB into it in any way.
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-07-13 05:31:13 am
Shut up and go back to another earth
Okay okay, sorry xp I read everything ! Do you wanna me to put everything I find, even useless things ? Because I remember one or two things ^^

Also, I'd like to find the famous hidden corridor behind the the gramophone room that Aqfaq once showed us but I did not find it yet. This glitched corridor seems to be a link between this room and the hidden room. I wanna test it, maybe there's a hope with that. But the thing is, I can't reach this zone. With OOB I managed to reach the gramophone room by the right perspective (the only camera you don't see in the actual speedrun) but I don't find what to do next. Maybe it happens by running toward infinite blackness: most of the time it's a good way to make the game change camera angle without using triggers inside of rooms, even if it's hard to predict results.

Edit: Found it but so far so nothing. It's just a lost perspective of the gramophone room. I'll continue to search with it but I think I'm going to give up about this floor x)
Yeah edit useless things in IF you can see some potential in them. I haven't mentioned all the silly things. In fact you should bring them up in the thread first so we can discuss them.

I don't know how to reach the black room either yet [oh I see you found it]. But yeah I've noticed the same that you can change views OOB seemingly randomly by just running somewhere. No theories as to why except maybe it's when you wrap around and the game suddenly looks at your coordinates and determines you're NOW closest to THIS view (out of all the views that are available) and changes.

So far all I've done is taken some screenshots.
Shut up and go back to another earth
I agree with your theory about running in OOB. I'm going to describe you how I reached the hidden screen just so you know. First of course, you have to OOB against the Gramophone room door. When you pass through the wall you can "choose" if you want the game to consider that you're in the hall or in the gramo-room (you know, with the frame-lag). Well choose, the gramophone room (you know that you're in if the walls exist. From that, just try to run aproximatly in the same direction the the ghost is looking, maybe a little to the right. The goal is simply to trigger another perspective of the same room. It could be the one of the empty angle of the room or the one where the screen is behind the ghost (the same you see when you take the matchbox). I think it doesnt work if you are in the perspective that you see when you normally enter in the room. Anyway, once you have that other vamera angle, all you have to do is run against the wall behind the ghost (where you can touch the gramophone) but slightly to the right. Eventually you'll touch the spot that makes the game think you're in the hall (the same you touch just when you OOB against the door) but this time the screen you'll see is the one when you pass the door of the tiny corridor (just before the painting corridor). When you have this screen, all you have to do is come back to the left and when the game'll think that you came back in the gramophone room you'll have this weird forbiden pespective where there's no texture.

About the maybe useless trick, just the fact that if you drink something when you're in the falling bridge at the tunnel entrance just before falling down, you'll survive and be abble to run into the pit. I'm pretty sure it's useless though. It just shows you how this death works. It is not the fall who kills you but the fact that the floor falls under your feet. Proof is the "Game Over" words appears as soon as soon as Carnby begins to fall. So if you skip this moment you'll skip the death.

Oh, and another place when you skip useless screen changing is the first door of the game. If you touch it by it's right there'll be a screen changing at the end of the opening animation so you HAVE to touch it by its left. I think that's it u_u
Sorry I'm trying to do more for this game but I also said I'd write front page updates etc.

What do you mean by "empty angle"?

I never tried the falling bridge survival trick (but I never got that far anyway). Pretty cool. I wonder what happens if you take a rifle shot upstairs (or get knocked back by a zombie) then quickly drink a potion. Could you somehow survive the crack in the floor? I doubt it because the death clearly triggers immediately.

By first door do you mean 3rd floor storage door? Are there really two different views you can emerge in? I noticed the gramophone room door behaves this way (I think it was that one) so the one side gives you one view and the other the other view. But it could have been another door somewhere, sorry my notes don't mention it unfortunately. Could you mention the screen change trick in the guide please?
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-07-19 06:01:41 am
Shut up and go back to another earth
Don't apologize ! All the work you did is astronomical, I really can't say the same thing ^^'

The "empty angle" is the only perspective that you don't see in the speedrun. You trigger it by running againt the angle at the opposite of the entrance. By running in OOB world you can triggger it too. It's easier to do the "trick" when you have this screen but as I said it sometimes is the screen behind the sofa who comes.

I tried to do the survival trick with the cracking floor but as you exactly said it does not work because you die instantly as soon as you enter in the floor hitbox. I also tried the same trick with the entrance. You know if you survive the... jelly thing and try to stay outside when the door is closed, you'll die. I tried to drink a potion at this moment but Carnby just died after the potion x)

By first door, I talk about the one I open just after taking the oil. Yes there are two different views, I know that well because every time I trigger it during a run I reset it x) it's ugly and stuff. All you have to do to avoid it is to touch the door by its left to open it. So naturally if want to see that other view (wich is in the fact the same that you see when you first come in the place from the attic), touch the door by its right. I'm going to add it right now. I'll also do some tests just to be sure wich path is the shortest one in the cellar considering how many time there's a perspective switch. I think I already did that by the past but I want to be sure and I'll add it in notes.
Why thanks! Smiley

Can you possibly create a video of how to get into the black view? I can't quite follow the instructions (could be me).

Did you try to instantly clip at the front door before dying? I doubt it'll work because there's hardly a reason for the victory trigger to be there before Pregzt is dead.

Ok, I get what you mean by the camera skip now... it's something I always do so I never thought about that. Still, yes mention it. The technical way to say that is "when exiting the 3rd floor storage room, open the door on the left side to avoid entering the view towards the stairs again".
Shut up and go back to another earth
I'm going to record that !

Instantly clip ? I'm not sure to understand the maneuver x)

Oh, okay I'll edit the guide with this sentence =p
Instantly clip just means "clip instantly", straight away, before you're dead. I meant doing something like shooting towards the corridor with your back towards the door to make it open but giving yourself time to run away from getting sucked in. Then you run back to the door to open it again (I don't think it does the sucking this time) and try to clip somewhere by using the open door's frame.
Shut up and go back to another earth
I'll try that x)

Talking about trying... I trained for the run 5 minuts ago and just for fun I took  Emily instead of Carnby and... I think we are idiots to notice a really important difference between them... SHE RUNS FASTER GOD DAMN IT. I'm going to do some video comparaisons just to be sure but franckly I think I already am.
Hmm... well that's something you should have noticed Smiley I noticed she's taller so it makes sense.
Shut up and go back to another earth
Well at the time I did not really compare that. I compared damages, fight animations... Stuff like that. It is really the fact to try to run with her who makes it obvious to me. There were a lot of changes. I can can save one fireball cycle against Pregzt with the good timing (and it allows me to do the Pregzt cutscene-skip). I began to train with her and I'll have to accommodate myself to her (wich mainly ask to be faster and more accurate with moves, as if the game was faster x) ), so far the only problem with her is that somehow her climbing animation doesn't work so well during the bridge maze area and she very often falls after the first climb, it's really annoying. The Nightgaunt skip is easier of course (not so much but still) and I think even some animations are faster.
I've noticed the falling thing too.
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-07-27 06:25:13 am
Shut up and go back to another earth
Found an easy solution who seems to work well. All you have to do is to not change your trajectory (by using left or right) between the moment where you jump out of water and the next climb. It's probably something about game recalculating wrongly your position at screen transition. I'll do some tests just to be ABSOLUTLY SURE that Emily is faster and I'll begin to record. I also did not forget about the "how to reach hidden screen" video, I'm going to to do it right now !

Edit: Done

I found an easier access to the spot. Note that I proceed to an half-turn at the moment when the screen comes behind sofa ghost.
Shut up and go back to another earth
Sorry about the double post !

LotBlind I need a second opinion, I'm still not sure if there's a difference between the two characters. I compared two videos with both of them running in the attic and making turns over and over. the synchronisation between videos was frame perfect and there wasn't any difference between them. But still I feel it when I'm playing. I tried the fireball trick with Carnby (as I succeed to have just the good timing with Emily to take the 5th fireball after putting the talisman) and somehow I can't do it with him. How is it possible ?  Do you think plausible that Emily is faster only in straight lines or something like that ? Can you make some tests too and tell me your observations about that ?
Edit history:
LotBlind: 2015-08-02 01:30:12 pm
LotBlind: 2015-08-02 01:29:54 pm
LotBlind: 2015-08-02 01:22:07 pm
I tried something new today: throwing objects through doors and loading points. It's a bit unpredictable what happens to them. Ofc the game has to stop them pretty soon or they'll fly right through objects and walls that are not loaded in, so I wonder if maybe every loading trigger is also set to not let them through. I'm thinking you could maybe use throwing objects as a way to tell where trigger lines are exactly if it's not otherwise obvious.

This would explain, btw, why the whole corridor is loaded in all at once - the player will be firing arrows.

Oh I see you've posted. Yes, I can confirm Emily is a bit faster. I ran back and forth across the loft and I found Emily can cross the room in 11 running steps whereas Carnby always seems to take 12. So Emily is 1/12 faster than him. I think the reason it looks the same when you make them run in circles is simply because their rotational speed is the same so Emily ends up running through a slightly wider circumference even though the angles are the same. I'm going to edit the guide...

BTW I added a bit of theorizing in the guide about the jelly if you want to read it. By jelly I mean the door monster.

PS: Is it confirmed that Emily's attacks are a bit faster? If they ARE, and it's only by 1/12, that explains why it's difficult to be sure. Not that we even use that command for anything Tongue
Edit history:
NHG: 2015-08-03 03:13:03 am
NHG: 2015-08-02 03:26:02 pm
NHG: 2015-08-02 03:25:28 pm
Shut up and go back to another earth
I tried few things yesterday. First of all, I realized there was a way to do the "don't die by falling bridge" in the 3rd floor by using the chicken-zombi cutscene so I tried and... Unfortunately it kills you anyway. The death trigger is the dissapearing floor so even if the drinking animation save you from the fall, the game over happens anyway. Funny thing though, it softblocks the game. Your character is still here but you can't control it. he can't take damages by the chicken-zombi and all you can do is quit the game (or load a save etc...).

The other thing concerns the hidden room trigger. I was wondering why the camera angles loaded weren't the good ones. I thought "hey, what happens if you do the exact same thing in another place ?". By the same thing I mean: be OOB in a room, run in the darkness until it shows another screen of the same room, then touch a room trigger and come back to the room you started in. I managed to do that in the painting corridor. Once the camera was changed, I eventually found the room trigger between painting corridor and the one just before. Weirdly when I loaded another room, the game showed me the exact same screen than in the video about the hidden room ( at 1:04) and when I came back to the painting corridor, it gave me the screen you normally see just before you enter (the one where you open the door leading to it). Soooo... yeah, I guess it could be interesting to try that anywhere we can. But it could be very long too as the path in OOB has to be very peculiar to load another camera. In any case, except of there are other hidden screens I'm pretty sure it'll be useless x)

Pretty good idea the item launching thing !

As I wanted to run, I trained with Emily before knowing if she was faster. After all even if she was not I apparently manage to do things with her I can't do with Carnby so the choice was logical. But thanks for the answer. I tried again to compare videos this morning but it was really complicated to lay exactly the same in both of sequences x)

Also good new, the new record will save more than 1 minut. One last thing ! Pass through the library door is indeed faster but I don't find a way to be stuck against the door for sure. Sometimes it works, sometimes Emily just slide against the wall until she opens the door. At this point I have the feeling it's just luck based, as if the game does not load the door at the exact same position everytime. Can I have your opinion about that ? x)

Edit: I did some quick tests and it seems completely random indeed. I thought maybe it just was a very precise angle to have when you come against the door, but it's not. Apparently it's decided when the screen is loaded. Sometimes there wont be any angle between the door and the wall, sometimes it'll be here and impossible to miss no matter your running angle. I hate RNG...
I'm sorry I'm too tired to really get the new things you mentioned but I'll check this out in a few days' time and give you more of a reply!
Shut up and go back to another earth
Done !
I'm going to submit it. The run is clean and the only thing I could regret is that I did not  consider the library door clip as a "thing I have to do !". I did not have the patience. If I have to optimize this damn game AGAIN, I'll add that as an obligation I promise.

Is it okay if I don't post a quality run ? I mean it'll be the same as the last one except that I changed the resolution (about that, the one that I choose in setting options seems wrong). Besides, I just added Windows 10 to my computer and it seems to have a bad influence with sounds/music, wich is not the case of the video as I recorded it before Windows upgrade.