AGDQ 2015 Game Submissions - Due date is September 3rd 11:59 EDT [locked]

luigimeister

Edit history:

luigimeister: 2014-08-21 10:37:22 pm

2014-08-21 10:36:14 pm

Likes SoM far too much

Quote from Kirua:

About Secret of Mana, I'm wondering what the reasons were to reject the 1 player 2 controllers run? Maybe because SoM was played last AGDQ?

Just a few words about it in case that submission was overlooked: two controllers is not a dumb gimmick by any mean, it's way harder to optimize but allows you to beat the game faster. It's also a relatively unique mechanic/playstyle for a speedrun I think (I don't know any other run that uses two controllers at once but maybe I'm forgetting something) so seeing such an intense execution process on a game widely appreciated and remembered by a lot of people would definitely not be a waste of time in the schedule.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think the run (& type of game) is suited for a race like it was suggested in the submission, but both StingerPA and Yagamoth are amazing at handling two controllers at once and could provide a great single player run.

seconded. (I'm totally biased b/c I used to run the game and still want to get sub two hours, but :P) I personally think its really entertaining and I know the whole double controller thing will be a crowd pleaser if there's a controller cam (which could be donated for)

[quote="Kirua"]About Secret of Mana, I'm wondering what the reasons were to reject the 1 player 2 controllers run? Maybe because SoM was played last AGDQ?

Just a few words about it in case that submission was overlooked: two controllers is not a dumb gimmick by any mean, it's way harder to optimize but allows you to beat the game faster. It's also a relatively unique mechanic/playstyle for a speedrun I think (I don't know any other run that uses two controllers at once but maybe I'm forgetting something) so seeing such an intense execution process on a game widely appreciated and remembered by a lot of people would definitely not be a waste of time in the schedule.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think the run (& type of game) is suited for a race like it was suggested in the submission, but both StingerPA and Yagamoth are amazing at handling two controllers at once and could provide a great single player run.[/quote]

seconded. (I'm totally biased b/c I used to run the game and still want to get sub two hours, but :P) I personally think its really entertaining and I know the whole double controller thing will be a crowd pleaser if there's a controller cam (which could be donated for)

Tterraj42

2014-08-21 10:37:02 pm

Games!

Another example: SGDQ 2013 Double Dragon II by Sinister1 - 1 player, 2 controllers

But yeah, those runs are always cool. Especially with a proper controller cam.

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 10:49:53 pm

Quote from DingDongBabyBoy:

Gonna agree with Zewing here. It doesn't really say much when you're trying to make this process seem impartial and not like a popularity contest when all one person has to do is essentially type "I'm a badass" in the submission and get it in. I know he has WR, and I know he gets a lot of viewers, but there are plenty of people who have WR in their games who submitted and made great pitches for their games and got rejected. Also, I honestly don't know this myself, but how many GDQs have there been WITHOUT Megaman X? Personally I'd rather see a refreshing new game being run and getting exposure as opposed to the same game again and again.

There's always the argument that these games get in because they make money, but the GDQ streams are ALWAYS gonna raise a ton of money regardless. Once again I know that the submission process isn't supposed to be viewed as a popularity contest, but it's really hard sometimes in these situations.

the thing is they're accepting the runs based on the merits of the actual run, not just the submission. caleb's a beast. we all already know. why would the picking crew need a description to judge it? it doesn't matter if tales of symphonia has the best submission pitch in the whole list, because if there's already a couple long RPG's that they're putting in, it aint getting in. the mega man x games are probably the best examples of games shining in a marathon setting, and if u have someone as fast as caleb doing it, it'd be real weird not to put them in.

[quote="DingDongBabyBoy"]Gonna agree with Zewing here.  It doesn't really say much when you're trying to make this process seem impartial and not like a popularity contest when all one person has to do is essentially type "I'm a badass" in the submission and get it in.  I know he has WR, and I know he gets a lot of viewers, but there are plenty of people who have WR in their games who submitted and made great pitches for their games and got rejected.  Also, I  honestly don't know this myself, but how many GDQs have there been WITHOUT Megaman X?  Personally I'd rather see a refreshing new game being run and getting exposure as opposed to the same game again and again.

There's always the argument that these games get in because they make money, but the GDQ streams are ALWAYS gonna raise a ton of money regardless.  Once again I know that the submission process isn't supposed to be viewed as a popularity contest, but it's really hard sometimes in these situations.[/quote]
the thing is they're accepting the runs based on the merits of the actual run, not just the submission. caleb's a beast. we all already know. why would the picking crew need a description to judge it? it doesn't matter if tales of symphonia has the best submission pitch in the whole list, because if there's already a couple long RPG's that they're putting in, it aint getting in. the mega man x games are probably the best examples of games shining in a marathon setting, and if u have someone as fast as caleb doing it, it'd be real weird not to put them in.

CVagts

2014-08-21 10:51:10 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I don't think he's arguing that the MMX runs shouldn't be in, but it is a bit lame to see a guy post "I'm a beast" and no PB video and it just skates by.

Karls_Friend

Edit history:

Karls_Friend: 2014-08-21 10:52:15 pm

2014-08-21 10:52:00 pm

well its not a huge deal people should get over things like that haha

edit: idk

Tterraj42

2014-08-21 10:52:53 pm

Games!

You're right. Double Standards are cool.

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 10:56:12 pm

i changed my mind. caleb u better check your wr holding sub button privilege or else im gonna freaking burst!

Kefka14

2014-08-21 10:56:46 pm

I am more than hype that Sneak King made it past first cuts. I hope it gets all the way in, as I run it actively on stream and won't let you guys down! This means that I might want to start looking into cosplay options haha. Thanks a lot. Regarding my other submissions, I totally understand the rejection.

Kirby 64: Great game, nostalgic, not a great speed game. Simple as that. Plus it seems Oxwas has submitted which would be a much better showing than me running it.

Wii Music Pitch Perfect: While I run it well, no explanation needed. Can't hurt to submit ya know?

Powerpuff Girls: Short and dumb. Not what the bill calls for all the time. Simple.

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Placeholder submission. Curious to see what is said regarding the main submission for the game.

Sneak King: Beyond hype, thanks for it! Let me know what category if it goes all the way through. I am more than down for a hype run!

zewing

2014-08-21 10:59:09 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Karls_Friend you're missing the point. There was NO pitch at all. It was just a statement. We all know he's a beast, but if you didn't know who the runner was, would you accept this as a valid reason to put the game in?

The whole point of a pitch is to do something to persuade the organizers that your game deserves a chance in the marathon. Like, I'm a beast at my speedruns.....but what if I submit Star Fox Assault and say "I'm 2 fast it should be illegal." Same kind of pitch, similar skilled runner, but different game. Using that logic, we should allow the worst star fox game (sorry.....even I understand it's bad, but doesn't mean I hate it) in because of either my name.....or because I'm a beast.

This is not meant to target people, but to reiterate my recent post, you are pitching a game because you are serious enough to attend a live marathon, willing to pay to attend, and otherwise hope that your seriousness of your pitch has convinced the organizers to give you a shot. I'm sorry, but accepting a few of these pitches clearly means special privileges, be it by the game's name, or the runner.

Karls_Friend you're missing the point.  There was NO pitch at all.  It was just a statement.  We all know he's a beast, but if you didn't know who the runner was, would you accept this as a valid reason to put the game in?

The whole point of a pitch is to do something to persuade the organizers that your game deserves a chance in the marathon.  Like, I'm a beast at  my speedruns.....but what if I submit Star Fox Assault and say "I'm 2 fast it should be illegal."  Same kind of pitch, similar skilled runner, but different game.  Using that logic, we should allow the worst star fox game (sorry.....even I understand it's bad, but doesn't mean I hate it) in because of either my name.....or because I'm a beast.

This is not meant to target people, but to reiterate my recent post, you are pitching a game because you are serious enough to attend a live marathon, willing to pay to attend, and otherwise hope that your seriousness of your pitch has convinced the organizers to give you a shot.  I'm sorry, but accepting a few of these pitches clearly means special privileges, be it by the game's name, or the runner.

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 11:05:46 pm

im not saying it was a sweet pitch or anything. im saying it would be literally pointless to have him write one up, because he's one of the handful of people with the track record at GDQ marathons to get away with it. obv if other people try it for their games it probably won't work, but the games are past the first round, like they would have gotten anyways whether caleb wrote a full description or not.

idk why it being a double standard is an issue. the runner themselves is a big part of the choosing process. if they didn't take into account who offered the run it would be ridiculous.

CVagts

2014-08-21 11:07:07 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

zewing's argument I think is just that you should at least try, or at least include a video. Linking a video takes very little time and would forgive the no-pitch part of it.

RatFunk

2014-08-21 11:07:28 pm

so if i had a dozen WR's i would get anything? or do ialso need sub? (I dont care that he can get away with this its for charity)

FFR Pro 21

2014-08-21 11:09:05 pm

Aww, all my submissions got rejected Sad

. Oh well, maybe next year.

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 11:12:55 pm

Quote from RatFunk:

so if i had a dozen WR's i would get anything? or do ialso need sub? (I dont care that he can get away with this its for charity)

yeah, i think that if you're a person who is known for delivering good runs at past marathons, you'll be more likely to get runs in future marathons as long as you keep it up. there's going to be a lot of cases where some games are picked because of the runner, just like how there are other cases where the game is picked on the speedrun alone. it would be pretty freaking dumb to assume everybody who offers a game is going to provide the same quality of commentary and play level at the marathon.

zewing

2014-08-21 11:14:59 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

It would also be something that everyone is given a fair shot and shouldn't assume they're given a free pass to a marathon. Just sayin'

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2014-08-21 11:22:13 pm

2014-08-21 11:19:38 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from RatFunk:

so if i had a dozen WR's i would get anything? or do ialso need sub? (I dont care that he can get away with this its for charity)

Exactly, it's for charity. He's been at the marathons before and put on a good run, so the organizers know he's a good bet to raise a lot of money for real world issues. The point is not to be fair, the point is to raise money. A lot of people are forgetting that.

You guys are bitching a lot about a non-issue. If your game is a no-name obscure title, you're going to have to pitch it more than OoT or SM64.

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 11:19:45 pm

marathon submissions are never going to be fair. there's always going to be a couple zelda games, while Bignose the Caveman might not ever get in a single marathon. the schedule is decided by a group of people working together to put together what they think is going to work the BEST, not to be the fairest schedule possible. if your run doesnt get in because they think another game is going to do better, well, sorry. they're not even halfway through the submissions, but i guarentee there are going to be quite a few great speedgames that won't make it on the schedule, just like every year.

Tterraj42

2014-08-21 11:23:55 pm

Games!

Yes, the human element is overrated. Forget community, we need metrics. METRICS!

Kirua

2014-08-21 11:25:35 pm

Is it really such a hard concept to grasp for people like zewing that a pitch is just there to give additional informations when they are needed? If the organizers know everything there is to know about a game and a runner, the only decision they are going to take is "do I want this run in again or not this time". Stop pretending that pointless additional informations should be needed for the sake of appearances, because the whole submission process is "private" (as in it'll only be read by actual speedrunners) and not something to inform a wider public. Do you want andrewg to reexplain to SDA what is a smb1 speedrun everytime he submits?

Karls_Friend

2014-08-21 11:26:42 pm

Quote from Tterraj42:

Yes, the human element is overrated. Forget community, we need metrics. METRICS!

dude, there are SEVERAL people being commissioned by the charity. they do need metrics. the GDQs are a big deal now, and its hard to justify not putting in what works.

Studio

Edit history:

Studio: 2014-08-21 11:31:30 pm

2014-08-21 11:27:04 pm

Caleb's example isn't the best comparison since X2 and X3 were already in the marathon, Earthbound got denied, which leaves X1 as the only run without a pitch. I bring up the other X2 and X3 submissions because if it was AGDQ's format we'd see Trogdor's pitch with Caleb's name attached to the submission.

X1 doesn't have a description, but it was already at this year's 'GDQs, people know how the run goes and it doesn't really need explanation. Like the pitches are really there to also explain the run to the organizers as to why they should be interested. When it's been in the past couple marathons, with the categories that have been ran listed, does it need an in-depth explanation? Not really. It's kind of an odd situation since most games aren't like that, but X1 is super well known.

Mike does first/second cuts though, so even if X1 is in right now, it doesn't mean there's going to going to be an X1 through X4 block, and I would assume at least one of the X runs won't survive second cuts (but not my decision so who knows).

vvv: Note that Caleb did put a bit more effort into Earthbound, so that logic is there.

Caleb's example isn't the best comparison since X2 and X3 were already in the marathon, Earthbound got denied, which leaves X1 as the only run without a pitch. I bring up the other X2 and X3 submissions because if it was AGDQ's format we'd see Trogdor's pitch with Caleb's name attached to the submission.

X1 doesn't have a description, but it was already at this year's 'GDQs, people know how the run goes and it doesn't really need explanation. Like the pitches are really there to also explain the run to the organizers as to why they should be interested. When it's been in the past couple marathons, with the categories that have been ran listed, does it need an in-depth explanation? Not really. It's kind of an odd situation since most games aren't like that, but X1 is super well known.

Mike does first/second cuts though, so even if X1 is in right now, it doesn't mean there's going to going to be an X1 through X4 block, and I would assume at least one of the X runs won't survive second cuts (but not my decision so who knows).

vvv: Note that Caleb did put a bit more effort into Earthbound, so that logic is there.

CVagts

2014-08-21 11:30:15 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

Quote from Kirua:

Is it really such a hard concept to grasp for people like zewing that a pitch is just there to give additional informations when they are needed? If the organizers know everything there is to know about a game and a runner, the only decision they are going to take is "do I want this run in again or not this time". Stop pretending that pointless additional informations should be needed for the sake of appearances, because the whole submission process is "private" (as in it'll only be read by actual speedrunners) and not something to inform a wider public. Do you want andrewg to reexplain to SDA what is a smb1 speedrun everytime he submits?

This is a very good point. Submissions are a case-by-case basis. If caleb submits Mega Man X with no pitch and no video, it's not a big deal because of how well-known it is and its presence at previous GDQs. If caleb submits an obscurer game with no pitch and no video, it's a much different scenario because there is no renown to it. It doesn't appear fair on the surface, but you have to take it in context.

[quote="Kirua"]Is it really such a hard concept to grasp for people like zewing that a pitch is just there to give additional informations when they are needed? If the organizers know everything there is to know about a game and a runner, the only decision they are going to take is "do I want this run in again or not this time". Stop pretending that pointless additional informations should be needed for the sake of appearances, because the whole submission process is "private" (as in it'll only be read by actual speedrunners) and not something to inform a wider public. Do you want andrewg to reexplain to SDA what is a smb1 speedrun everytime he submits?[/quote]

This is a very good point.  Submissions are a case-by-case basis.  If caleb submits Mega Man X with no pitch and no video, it's not a big deal because of how well-known it is and its presence at previous GDQs.  If caleb submits an obscurer game with no pitch and no video, it's a much different scenario because there is no renown to it.  It doesn't appear fair on the surface, but you have to take it in context.

zewing

2014-08-21 11:34:30 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

So where at in that description by either mitch or caleb says why it should be considered if it's been done so many times? From what I've gathered, there's a thing like "over saturation" or "nothing new present" that has rejected some runs already, this year and in the past. Nothing in the pitch's gives any indication as to why it should be in the marathon. Maybe we should always have a slot open for a mmx, zelda, or mario and leave the runners name blank so that it can be filled in later. That is sorta what you are telling me kirua.

Also, I'm just speaking out in terms of fairness for all those who make a pitch. Even if this will be ignored this year, I don't believe people should be able to get away with this as it clearly shows they don't have to put any effort into convincing WHY the game should be in. They are only convincing why the RUNNER should be in.

To answer your question Kirua, yes, I do believe andrewg should make a legit pitch instead of something like "it's mario."

So where at in that description by either mitch or caleb says why it should be considered if it's been done so many times?  From what I've gathered, there's a thing like "over saturation" or "nothing new present" that has rejected some runs already, this year and in the past.  Nothing in the pitch's gives any indication as to why it should be in the marathon.  Maybe we should always have a slot open for a mmx, zelda, or mario and leave the runners name blank so that it can be filled in later.  That is sorta what you are telling me kirua.

Also, I'm just speaking out in terms of fairness for all those who make a pitch.  Even if this will be ignored this year, I don't believe people should be able to get away with this as it clearly shows they don't have to put any effort into convincing WHY the game should be in.  They are only convincing why the RUNNER should be in.

To answer your question Kirua, yes, I do believe andrewg should make a legit pitch instead of something like "it's mario."

BaronHaynes

2014-08-21 11:35:24 pm

Strange days, incredible days

I get where Zewing is coming from, but I don't know what the organizers can really do about it. I'd say this kind of thing is better directed at the runners, i.e. don't basically write "yeah yeah here's some text, we all know my game is getting in", cause it makes the process look bad.

z1mb0bw4y

2014-08-21 11:38:20 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from Aaron_Haynes:

I get where Zewing is coming from, but I don't know what the organizers can really do about it. I'd say this kind of thing is better directed at the runners, i.e. don't basically write "yeah yeah here's some text, we all know my game is getting in", cause it makes the process look bad.

It's not about "here's some text, we all know my game is getting in". If the game is well-known, there's no reason for them to put effort into pitching it when the organizers know what they're getting into if they're thinking about accepting/rejecting the game. The pitch box is literally for the benefit of the organizers, not everyone else.