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BaronHaynes: 2013-09-08 03:46:30 pm
Strange days, incredible days
I think 151 could be a really exciting run if the room is hype and keep tracks of how many pokemon have been picked up. Imagine having a big whiteboard behind the couch with all 151 names on it, and somebody crosses them off as they're caught. If it's as much an event as a run, and there's a lot of enthusiasm in the room, then anyone who's played a Gen 1 pokemon game will have fun following along, whether they know anything about running Pokemon games or not.

There's a lot of runs in past marathons that have really taken off and become something special, not because the game itself, but because it's well-suited for a live event. I think this could easily be something like that if done well.

Edit: I also think Blasto would be a sleeper hit as long you have PJ commentating for it.
Quote from Aaron_Haynes:
There's a lot of runs in past marathons that have really taken off and become something special, not because the game itself, but because it's well-suited for a live event. I think this could easily be something like that if done well.


I think the Sim City / Maniac Mansion run a few years back was a great example of this.  Neither run is particularly exciting in itself, but the way they were done together, along with the commentary, really made that a standout part of all the GDQs I've watched.  Definitely something to be said for games transcending the run itself and become their own event.
Edit history:
dwangoAC: 2013-09-08 03:54:49 pm
Keeper of TASBot
Quote from RoboSparkle:
On the subject of live TAS, while what I know about TAS could fit on the back of a postage stamp that itself already contained my entire knowledge of Nintendo systems, is there anyway of having a DS TAS that will play on console?  Because if so I really liked this:



Thanks for the suggestion!  That is one of my favorite TAS's to watch, even though it's only a playaround.  Unfortunately, I have no idea how we would create a TASBot that could interface with a DS, and I say this based on how fragile DS's are and how difficult creating the software interface would be to reliably send touchscreen data to a DS.  I'm not saying this is impossible and will never be done, but the liklihood that it can be done before AGDQ 2014 is slim to none unless someone else develops it.

Perhaps as GDQ viewers become more accustomed to TAS's, a future GDQ could have moments where TAS's are played back on an emulator to demonstrate glitches that are not marathon safe or for other purposes (with appropriate captioning, as always).  This Brain Age playaround would definitely be a fun game to show off.  Thanks again,

A.C.
******
Quote from mikwuyma:
I decided add Super Mario 64 one-handed one-star back onto the list. I can make the one-handed portion a donation incentive. I think people misinterpreted (or I didn't explain well enough) what I said about Mario 64, I was already open to the idea (see my response to PEACHES_), but I didn't want to add it because we were overstuffed.

uh one-handed 1 star? I'm pretty sure there is noone on earth that can do that. Peaches suggested 1 handed 16 star.
Old Iron Giant
Quote:
This I have doubts about. Pretty much every modern console FPS we've run has had bad or mixed reactions at best. Gears of War at SGDQ 2012 is a good indication of this. A lot of people complain about Halo, Gears of War and Call of Duty as making FPS games casual and dumbing down the genre in general, and I've seen a lot of bitching about that, not just in marathons but in chats and forums and pretty much any video featuring a classic fps.


So people bitching played in this? You realize the chat shits on every run right?

Your reasoning for cutting it is insanely weak, I'm really confused on how nostalgia plays into it either considering some of the games on the list.
Quote from Paradox Karl:
uh one-handed 1 star? I'm pretty sure there is noone on earth that can do that.


Then I guess Peaches will have to be the first! Tongue
Quote from Countneko:
Quote from Paradox Karl:
uh one-handed 1 star? I'm pretty sure there is noone on earth that can do that.


Then I guess Peaches will have to be the first! Tongue


Too bad it is humanly impossible (without the use of some sort of modded controller. peaches can't even do 1 star with 2 hands afaik.)
Edit history:
Saint Connor: 2013-09-08 04:36:12 pm
Saint Connor: 2013-09-08 04:15:27 pm
Quote from mikwuyma:
SaintConnor: There's some nice clipping glitches in Blasto, but from what I saw, they're not very numerous. Aside from those glitches, there isn't too much that sticks out. The platforming and movement is kind of slow, and there's nothing that leaps out as haha funny awful. This is one of the few PS1 games where the graphics are actually decent, and that kind of hurts the game for AwfulGDQ, to be honest.


I can agree with that for the most part. Especially for the first 3 stages as there is really not much of anything game breaking except for maybe the door climb for stage 2 (which also has a clip glitch on the left wall), and certainly for stage 8 which is just running for your life the entire time. But I would like to point out there is some new tech, specifically for stage 7, that involves 3 clips with some out of bounds that have greatly improved on the old route. These things were found just a couple weeks ago, and unfortunately, just after I made the submission for AGDQ. If this was considered for the cut, then you can disregard, but as I said, it's new and I don't know what the decision making process is so I'm just kind of assuming at this point.

I have a solid vid of the run w/ just some minor commentary on the run itself here: http://www.twitch.tv/saintconnor/c/2878802 (sorry for the quality, my stream settings were kind of shitty and I've since adjusted them, but for now, this will have to do). Don't take this as me being argumentative, as that is not the case, but I just wanted to make you and other decision makers aware that there are some improvements (if you didn't already know). I'm also not trying to change your mind, but would like to offer myself as a backup should there be some time allowed or if someone drops out in the coming weeks.

Quote:
Either way, I'm glad you're handling this with such a good attitude.


Not a problem! Like I said, I'm still somewhat new and constantly improving, I just thought it would be a fun run to suggest. But end of the day, I know AGDQ isn't about me and my game making the cut, it's about the viewers and the charity. I'll just have to keep at it and hopefully I'll make it next time :).

Also, the games list this year is too stronk ;). Seriously, a lot of great games offered.
It is upsetting that Halo 2 has been cut, especially with the justification for the cut being past instances of other Halo games by a completely different person. We should make cuts based on the merits of the current runner, not the mistakes made in the past by someone completely different. It should honestly be reconsidered based on Monopoli's merits as a speedrunner alone. As for the concern about the length, the 2:40:00 time has a large amount of wiggle room in it; Monopoli's recent attempts have brought the Legendary time to 2:11:00, with room to improve below 2 hours.
Strange days, incredible days
Quote from Binary Dragon:
Quote from Aaron_Haynes:
There's a lot of runs in past marathons that have really taken off and become something special, not because the game itself, but because it's well-suited for a live event. I think this could easily be something like that if done well.


I think the Sim City / Maniac Mansion run a few years back was a great example of this.  Neither run is particularly exciting in itself, but the way they were done together, along with the commentary, really made that a standout part of all the GDQs I've watched.  Definitely something to be said for games transcending the run itself and become their own event.


Exactly. Also, when there's something particularly weird or broken about a game, and the room (and chat) are surprised and laughing about it, it outweighs quality/popularity concerns about the run itself. I think my favorite moments in marathons are of games I had no prior knowledge of, but got to discover it along with the runner and other viewers. There's definitely a performance element to good GDQ runs. To put on a good show, you're not just running the game, you're sort of narrating what a run of the game is like.

AwfulGDQ is a great example of this. Games like Metal Morph or Deadly Towers are horrible to look at or play on their own terms, but as a shared experience in a marathon, they're worth as much as any good game. I think virtually any game could be a success at a marathon, it's just about finding a way to make the experience interesting and unique.
Why not simply add sm64 any% and forget the 1-hand gimmick?
For Fun! For GLORY!!
Because 1 handed. Tongue
Quote from Melkor:
It is upsetting that Halo 2 has been cut, especially with the justification for the cut being past instances of other Halo games by a completely different person. We should make cuts based on the merits of the current runner, not the mistakes made in the past by someone completely different. It should honestly be reconsidered based on Monopoli's merits as a speedrunner alone. As for the concern about the length, the 2:40:00 time has a large amount of wiggle room in it; Monopoli's recent attempts have brought the Legendary time to 2:11:00, with room to improve below 2 hours.


I think that the reasoning here isn't that the current runner is unable, but that there are concerns that Halo games have shown themselves to not be very marathon safe as a general rule, especially when compared to other FPSes that could fill the space.  I don't know enough about the Halo games to know if that concern is justified or not, but I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind it is a bit more subtle than just "previous runner wasn't that good, so no runner can be."
My feelings on The Demon Rush
So after doing some more research into Crash games and the runners, it's obvious that CaneofPacci is the most qualified runner. That being said, I don't think it's worth bumping it up to 100%.

Monopoli: I'll have to look at the chat logs for Reach then.

Halo 2 sales, I'm aware of this, but sales are not a great indicator of whether a game will be well-received at a marathon. This is an extreme example, but Gran Turismo is one of the best selling games for PS1, but I think we can all agree it would be an awful watch for a marathon. That being said, I'm looking forward to a no-reset run video so I can see what a run looks like.

Alt: Actually, I've seen chat logs for games and to be honest, people generally don't talk about the run unless if they a. really like it or they see a very impressive trick, or b. they really do not like the run. So no, people don't go out of their way to shit on every run.

Also, while we have some stuff that is admittedly more obscure, it's also shorter and less risky since the games haven't had a bad reception in the past.

SM64: Whoops! I misread that one. D: Should be fixed now.

Melkor, read my post on page 6 concerning Halo 2. If you think the skill level is my sole concern then that is misguided.
Quote from Aaron_Haynes:
Exactly. Also, when there's something particularly weird or broken about a game, and the room (and chat) are surprised and laughing about it, it outweighs quality/popularity concerns about the run itself. I think my favorite moments in marathons are of games I had no prior knowledge of, but got to discover it along with the runner and other viewers. There's definitely a performance element to good GDQ runs. To put on a good show, you're not just running the game, you're sort of narrating what a run of the game is like.
151 definitely fits the category of "wtf did he just do?", the amount of combined glitches always fill Werster's chat with confusion at every turn. It's honestly a unique feat, achieving something everyone dreamed of doing the first time they played their first Pokemon game, but barely anyone achieved. And Werster does it in under 5 hours.
When I first heard of the category I was concerned with how repetitive it might be ('oh you're just gonna ditto glitch 50 pokemon and that's all?') but as it gets more optimized it's really becoming a good watch. And it's decently marathon safe, unlike this year's Pokemon Gold run.
Edit history:
Linkinito: 2013-09-08 05:21:07 pm
Linkinito: 2013-09-08 05:09:06 pm
This is my avatar
Just passing by.



Basic stats:
Total time: 159:30:00
Number of runs: 156 (including bonus games)
Mean: 1:01:21
Standard deviation: 0:58:51
Q1: 0:25:00
Median: 0:45:00 (half of the runs are shorter or equal, the other half is equal or longer)
Q3: 1:10:00
Weighted median: 1:20:00 (all the runs shorter than this time represent 50 % of the total marathon time, and the rest of the runs, that are longer, make the other 50 % of the marathon - here we have 123 games shorter and 33 games longer, which is close to the 80/20 rule: 80% of the games take half of the total time, while the other 20% of the games take the other half)


What does all this mean?
As we can see, there's a huge amount of short games: exactly 100 are estimated to be finished in under an hour. But if they represent two-thirds of the games, they only represent one-third in terms of time. On the other end, one-fifth of the games nearly take half the time of the entire marathon. It's clearly seen on the Lorenz Curve, where the longer games actually take the biggest part of the marathon (which is of course completely logical).

What also surprised me was the pretty good balance between generations of games. If we except the 2nd generation which is too old, and the 8th generation which barely begun with Wii U, generations 3-7 are very balanced in terms of games (even if the 6th generation is a bit under-represented), but they are also balanced in terms of time. The 3rd generation games take much less time only because they are actually shorter to complete (the longest run for a 3rd generation game being SMB3 100% with 1:35:00).

The distribution in 5-year periods is quite different, and clearly shows a peak in the early 90s, eg the SNES/MegaDrive era before decreasing to get quite low in the late 2000s. The latest period (2010-2013) shows quite a boost thanks to the indie games. Then, in terms of time, there's a big difference in the distribution and is an interesting indicator of the length of the games through the ages.

And to end it up (not represented in graphs), the Big 9 sagas (Mario, Donkey Kong, Contra, Mega Man, Metroid, Castlevania, Sonic, Kirby, Zelda) have 44 games in the list, which represents 28.2% of the games (highest amount of games, but lowest proportion). In terms of time, 35.3% of the marathon is devoted to the Big 9 sagas. If Chrono Trigger is included (as the "Square classic"), the ratios goes up to 28.8% of the games and 39.2% of the time.

So to sum it up, very nice job to balance the games from various generations.
Fucking Weeaboo
Cool stats, bro.
Those stats just need a flowchart to be perfect
Quote from Linkinito:
80% of the games take half of the total time, while the other 20% of the games take the other half
This is my avatar

51 % of the games this AGDQ have never been seen in a previous GDQ marathon (if we except bonus streams). The other half have appeared in at least one GDQ marathon to date.
I'm another guy who'd like to throw my support behind Halo 2 at AGDQ. It is by no means boring or slow-paced. In fact, the current run on the site is one of the most amazing speedruns I've seen. I'm not really buying the argument of "We have a lot of FPSes already" especially considering most of the FPS runs are only about half an hour long. Plus, the hipsters who complain that Halo "ruined" the FPS genre can go screw. Considering Daikatana came out a year before the first Halo, I'd say the old-school FPS genre did a good enough job ruining itself.
I don't think Halo 'ruined' the FPS genre, at least not around the time of Halo 2, it was the influx of kiddies on Xbox Live plus the popularity of Call of Duty, plus the general oversaturation of FPS games.
You can always argue the "we have a lot of FPSes already" pretty hard, but eventually it's just going to come down to "what game will bring in more money/whats more popular". Remember, regardless of how great the game/run is, if people don't really know about it, it's probably not going to get put in versus games that people already know.
Clearly we already have far too many action RPGs and platformer games, we really should cut down on all those platformers so we can fit in some more Sim games.
mike: The first 10 minutes of a TR2013 run (up to getting the bow) is quite boring and slow, I can admit that.  It gets more active as the run goes on.  Your reasoning on picking TR2 over this is understandable and I wont argue it.  Thank you for the clarification, though, this makes more sense.