Addams Family (NES)

2009-03-28 04:49:40 am

I try my luck on Addam's Family (NES, PAL) at the moment. It's the first game (the one where you play as Gomez) if somebody's wondering. As there are a couple of spots where dying saves time, I'm working on a run with deaths, but no continues as I suppose that's forbidden by default (even though there's basically no difference between continue and normal death in this game). My best run up until now is around 16.30 (approximately 1 minute slower than the tas if recalculated with the 6/5 rule), but that must go down quite a bit before I think it's worth to bother any verifier with it. I will put some research in a no-death run as well, which should be possible despite the pretty unforgiving hit detection, but that's a later problem...
Anyways, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to see if someone was sitting on some good information that is not readily available on the net. So, here are my questions :
- Is there something in Fester's room ? The manual hints in a way that leads one to think there is something other than the visible money bag in there ?
- Is the middle music manuscript in the library of any use ? The manual states that "each piece of music may help you".
- Has anyone found any hidden stashes (or 1-ups !) outside the four secret rooms detailed in the walkthrough on gamefaqs ? (these are also hinted out in the manual)
- ...

Well, I'm not sure I actually expects someone to have a positive answer on any of the above questions, but then I can at least say that I'm not missing out on anything obvious.

Thread title:

I try my luck on Addam's Family (NES, PAL) at the moment. It's the first game (the one where you play as Gomez) if somebody's wondering. As there are a couple of spots where dying saves time, I'm working on a run with deaths, but no continues as I suppose that's forbidden by default (even though there's basically no difference between continue and normal death in this game). My best run up until now is around 16.30 (approximately 1 minute slower than the tas if recalculated with the 6/5 rule), but that must go down quite a bit before I think it's worth to bother any verifier with it. I will put some research in a no-death run as well, which should be possible despite the pretty unforgiving hit detection, but that's a later problem...
Anyways, I thought that it wouldn't hurt to see if someone was sitting on some good information that is not readily available on the net. So, here are my questions :
- Is there something in Fester's room ? The manual hints in a way that leads one to think there is something other than the visible money bag in there ?
- Is the middle music manuscript in the library of any use ? The manual states that "each piece of music may help you".
- Has anyone found any hidden stashes (or 1-ups !) outside the four secret rooms detailed in the walkthrough on gamefaqs ? (these are also hinted out in the manual)
- ...

Well, I'm not sure I actually expects someone to have a positive answer on any of the above questions, but then I can at least say that I'm not missing out on anything obvious.

kareshi

2009-03-28 06:36:50 am

If you're 1 minute behind a TAS adjusting for PAL, it sounds like you've got a great start. Finish it so we can have one update with this and Fester's Quest!

Toothache

2009-03-28 08:15:51 am

Let the music play!

Da da da dum *click click*

This is my way of giving approval for this run :-)

ColonelFatso

2009-03-28 02:05:13 pm

I would help, but the NES and SNES versions are so wildly different that it'll be impossible (in fact, the SNES version of this game actually became the NES version of Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt). Instead I can merely offer words of encouragement.

ktwo

2009-03-29 11:31:25 am

Quote from kareshi:

Finish it so we can have one update with this and Fester's Quest!

Couldn't agree more ! I'm glad you're doing FQ and not the other way around though. I have bad memories of the red enemies that can go through walls and just keep respawning later on in the game. I'm curious to see how you will handle those.
I played AF again today and tried some more strategies. It's funny, I had high hopes for a new route and pulled off a good run that I was very excited to time. Turned out that while better executed, the route was actually slower for some reason. Sad

A rough estimation of the route I'm currently working on indicates that a run of just above 16 min would look pretty clean. So 30s to shave off. I will see how close to that I can come...

kareshi

2009-03-29 05:58:25 pm

Emptyeye ~~"Mr. Battletoads"~~ ~~"Mr. Rygar"~~ "Mr. Willow" is doing Fester's Quest, I'm just waiting for it.

UraniumAnchor

2009-03-30 04:37:46 pm

Not a walrus

I don't see why a continue would be forbidden, I abused the hell out of them in one of my Blaster Master runs. Sounds like regular old death abuse to me.

I remember this game being a pain in the ass to control and very slow paced, though I did manage to beat it (can't remember if I ever did a deathless playthrough or not), so I'll be watching for this.

ktwo

Edit history:

ktwo: 2009-04-30 04:23:58 pm

2009-04-17 09:39:39 am

Just an update.
Regarding the questions in my first post, I haven't found anything yet (I also asked the tas authors, but they were unable to answer). I think I will conclude that I'm not missing out on much. I also found a site that kind of looks like a place where nostalgic ocean gamers hang out (or whatever), called the ocean experience. I have asked the same questions as here in their forum. I was hoping that one of the developers would lurk around and release something that has not published before, but no reply so far.

Of greater interest, I just got a run of around 16.07 (with deaths). My target time remains at 16 min, so I'm homing in...

Edit:
----
New best is 15.42. Looks like I was a bit conservative in my initial estimate about the time to aim for. It was a nice run, but with a couple of completely retarded mistakes (5-6s lost). The luck was good, but not perfect. If I can get it down to 15.35, it would be fantastic. However, right now my thumb is soar, I feel dizzy and I'm tired of "make-it-or-break-it" jumps and waiting for the right luck...

Edit2 (300409):
---------------
One good news and another good news. New best is 15.27. The other good news is that there are still unacceptable mistakes so more time can be shaved off (around 10s of mistakes, so new target time is 15.20). The new run might not be for the sensitive viewer though. There are a whopping 7 deaths... Finding new spots to death warp is the main reason for the improvement.

Just an update.
Regarding the questions in my first post, I haven't found anything yet (I also asked the tas authors, but they were unable to answer). I think I will conclude that I'm not missing out on much. I also found a site that kind of looks like a place where nostalgic ocean gamers hang out (or whatever), called the ocean experience. I have asked the same questions as here in their forum. I was hoping that one of the developers would lurk around and release something that has not published before, but no reply so far.

Of greater interest, I just got a run of around 16.07 (with deaths). My target time remains at 16 min, so I'm homing in...

Edit:
----
New best is 15.42. Looks like I was a bit conservative in my initial estimate about the time to aim for. It was a nice run, but with a couple of completely retarded mistakes (5-6s lost). The luck was good, but not perfect. If I can get it down to 15.35, it would be fantastic. However, right now my thumb is soar, I feel dizzy and I'm tired of "make-it-or-break-it" jumps and waiting for the right luck...

Edit2 (300409):
---------------
One good news and another good news. New best is 15.27. The other good news is that there are still unacceptable mistakes so more time can be shaved off (around 10s of mistakes, so new target time is 15.20). The new run might not be for the sensitive viewer though. There are a whopping 7 deaths... Finding new spots to death warp is the main reason for the improvement.

ZenicReverie

2009-04-22 03:21:00 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

You'll surprise yourself quite often by the amount of time you save on repeat attempts. A lot of time is saved just based on all around tighter gameplay not to mention better luck.

ktwo

Edit history:

ktwo: 2009-05-11 08:04:10 am

2009-05-03 05:31:45 pm

Ok, my strategy (including 7 deaths) and completion times have seriously started to converge the last sessions. I have therefor requested to get my best run into verification. It's far from godly (read: Contra III:ly), but (in my opinion) with no big mistakes either. The most glaring ones come towards the end where you apparently need better jumping skills than I was able to muster this time around (in the attic, where my nerves always freak out before the said jumps).

I doubt there are many people with a lot of experience with this game (for reasons I fully understand), but I hope it will still be possible to find verifyers. It's a pretty slow-paced game, so even with rudimentary knowledge, it should be easy enough to follow what's going on. In the meantime, I'll start working on a no-death run. I have not started planning it and I have no idea what it will look like or how hard it is. Anyways, at least I won't stop until I beat the 40+ minute run published on twingalaxies Wink

(yeck, I can't even imagine what that must look like).

Edit (110509) :
---------------
I have now managed to come up with a good route for the no-death run and have also managed to execute it once. As expected, it's considerably more difficult than with deaths because of a hit detection that is far beyond ultra cheap. Time ? A little over 17.10, but with a couple of mistakes. It's difficult to say how much time was lost, but my next target will be to improve the run by 15-20 seconds (16.50-55) and then take it from there.

Ok, my strategy (including 7 deaths) and completion times have seriously started to converge the last sessions. I have therefor requested to get my best run into verification. It's far from godly (read: Contra III:ly), but (in my opinion) with no big mistakes either. The most glaring ones come towards the end where you apparently need better jumping skills than I was able to muster this time around (in the attic, where my nerves always freak out before the said jumps).

I doubt there are many people with a lot of experience with this game (for reasons I fully understand), but I hope it will still be possible to find verifyers. It's a pretty slow-paced game, so even with rudimentary knowledge, it should be easy enough to follow what's going on. In the meantime, I'll start working on a no-death run. I have not started planning it and I have no idea what it will look like or how hard it is. Anyways, at least I won't stop until I beat the 40+ minute run published on twingalaxies   ;) (yeck, I can't even imagine what that must look like).

Edit (110509) :
---------------
I have now managed to come up with a good route for the no-death run and have also managed to execute it once. As expected, it's considerably more difficult than with deaths because of a hit detection that is far beyond ultra cheap. Time ? A little over 17.10, but with a couple of mistakes. It's difficult to say how much time was lost, but my next target will be to improve the run by 15-20 seconds (16.50-55) and then take it from there.

ktwo

Edit history:

ktwo: 2011-03-01 02:40:12 pm

ktwo: 2009-09-10 11:41:38 am

2009-05-16 02:15:37 am

First of all, sorry for double-posting, but I decided to share a no-death run with you.

~~www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd6HiYJYinM~~ (part 1)
~~www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RnoYxXGcKY~~ (part 2)

It's easily the best no-death run I have done so far, but it's still probably unaccetable for sda. There is a 7 second mistake (I have to excuse myself by saying that it's because of bad luck) around 5 min in of part 2. It will be a test of mental strength to play enough times to eventually get lucky in that part (= trigger the bat so you can run past unscathed). This game is tricky to no-death, so I hope you will enjoy the clip despite the flaws.

(at least I think this run would beat the current record at twin galaxies, 45.25 on ntsc Smiley

)

Edit (160509)
-------------
Bad weather in Scandinavia today, so I've been playing some more... I felt concentrated today and had several good attempts until I finally got a full no-death run with decent luck. It's not perfect, but I'm happy with the overall result. I'm submitting this together with the death abuse run.

Edit 10/09-09
-------------
Youtube clips have been removed.

First of all, sorry for double-posting, but I decided to share a no-death run with you.

[s]www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd6HiYJYinM[/s] (part 1)
[s]www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RnoYxXGcKY[/s] (part 2)

It's easily the best no-death run I have done so far, but it's still probably unaccetable for sda. There is a 7 second mistake (I have to excuse myself by saying that it's because of bad luck) around 5 min in of part 2. It will be a test of mental strength to play enough times to eventually get lucky in that part (= trigger the bat so you can run past unscathed). This game is tricky to no-death, so I hope you will enjoy the clip despite the flaws.

(at least I think this run would beat the current record at twin galaxies, 45.25 on ntsc  :) )

Edit (160509)
-------------
Bad weather in Scandinavia today, so I've been playing some more... I felt concentrated today and had several good attempts until I finally got a full no-death run with decent luck. It's not perfect, but I'm happy with the overall result. I'm submitting this together with the death abuse run.

Edit 10/09-09
-------------
Youtube clips have been removed.

ventuz

2011-02-26 02:25:35 pm

Null

I discovered glitch, as explained at http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=147&start=27 , it allows Gomez fly and go thru wall but it's only has few uses in area with stairs or ladders.

Anyone with cartridge try it out, does it also work on console?

To do this glitch:
1. Find any stair / ladder (rope / curtains won't work)
2. Walk up (press up)
3. When you reach to top, continue holding UP.
4. Jump in air, release any button except UP. If Gomez is stuck in air, SUCCESS.

ktwo

2011-03-01 02:47:06 pm

Hi ventuz, cool to see you're playing Addams Family again.

As for the glitch, it works (unsurprisingly) on console as I just tried it out. I hadn't seen it before, but I can't say I'm much of a glitch finder either. I checked the thread on tasvideos and you mentioned that this glitch should save 10 seconds or more. I can see that it should save a second when going from the right landing to the left landing (avoid going down the right stairs), but other than that I'm not so sure. What other places did you have in mind ? The "floating" speed is the same as walking speed, right ?

It feels like it was ages since I touched this game, but I'm kind of motivated to try to improve the death abuse run some day...

ktwo

2011-03-26 01:08:43 pm

If you're a hardcore old-schooler and don't mind wip:s, then here is a little something for you (it's ~40s faster than my published death abuse run):

The run looks pretty poor near the end, but some areas are luck-dependent. When things didn't go my way, I lost concentration and this was the result. I hope the final product will be half a minute faster or so.

ktwo

2022-08-02 11:59:37 am

Even though there haven't been any new tricks discovered or major route improvements, the PAL runs I did a few years back are somewhat outdated. I've wanted to speedrun the NTSC version for quite some time now, but it's only recently that I decided to begin. I started out by updating the TAS (now on tasvideos) and documenting various aspects of the game in SDA's knowledge base, https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Addams_Family_(NES).

The last few days, I've focused on real-time attempts. I got a (high) 11:23 in the any% (death abuse) category earlier today (https://vimeo.com/735869929), which is comparatively a few seconds faster than my corresponding PAL-run (and 7s faster than the until now fastest NTSC run that was published). The run was more of a proof of concept for the route I'm using and very improvable. I played defensively, made several execution mistakes, used conservative strats and there are a few areas I need to look more at to figure out the best strats. Some of the splits were better than I what I expected, but I still hope at the very least to get below 11:20. It's difficult to say what would be a good goal time with so many things left to improve though.

Even though there haven't been any new tricks discovered or major route improvements, the PAL runs I did a few years back are somewhat outdated. I've wanted to speedrun the NTSC version for quite some time now, but it's only recently that I decided to begin. I started out by updating the TAS (now on tasvideos) and documenting various aspects of the game in SDA's knowledge base, https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Addams_Family_(NES).

The last few days, I've focused on real-time attempts. I got a (high) 11:23 in the any% (death abuse) category earlier today (https://vimeo.com/735869929), which is comparatively a few seconds faster than my corresponding PAL-run (and 7s faster than the until now fastest NTSC run that was published). The run was more of a proof of concept for the route I'm using and very improvable. I played defensively, made several execution mistakes, used conservative strats and there are a few areas I need to look more at to figure out the best strats. Some of the splits were better than I what I expected, but I still hope at the very least to get below 11:20. It's difficult to say what would be a good goal time with so many things left to improve though.

ktwo

2022-09-11 03:19:02 pm

I've continued to work on the any% (with death abuse) on and off and lowered my pb to 11:22, then 11:19 and today I got a (very high) 11:16. The latest pb contains a few mistakes, but nothing major and I had a very good run through the attic (good RNG and no big execution mistakes). Towards the end, I was thinking that 11:17 would be a challenging but also realistic goal time, so I'm satisfied with the 11:16 that I got and I will not try to improve it.

Next, I'll take a look at the no-death category. Once I have a better idea of what a route based on the current knowledge will look like, I will decide if that's something I will try to speedrun.