Wanting to do a FFII speedrun(Origins, not IV)

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-17 07:54:05 pm

2011-01-17 07:33:15 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Hey Caracarn, I know you aren't thinking about a SS run on Origins yet, but what do you think would be the minimum requirements to quickly and consistently beat each of the dungeons in that version?

[EDIT] BTW there is a totally sweet encounter table showing the order of fights and which fights you can run from from that FF2 PSX ultimagarden page.

Quote:

http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/encounter/index.htm
I used the translation from this website: http://honyaku.nifty.com/
direct link to the translation http://honyaku-result.nifty.com/LUCNIFTY/ns/wt.cgi/http%3a//surume5.han%2dbe.com/Home/FF2/encounter/index.htm?SLANG=ja&TLANG=en&XMODE=1&XCHARSET=utf-8

Caracarn

2011-01-17 10:37:40 pm

I pretty much have those encounter tables memorized for the entire game :p

As far as minimum requirements, im thinking Firion needs level 16 sword/shield and at least 1k hp. I also need to be able to resist petrify and Toad, if I run into those. As far as magic goes, I'm really not sure whether leveling any magic other than Cure, would be very effective in the PS version. Fire for the undeads is the only one that I can think of atm, but I'm not sure if leveling that up would be better than just using Fire Scrolls from the equipment slot (especially cause I don't need MP to use the scrolls).

Since I open very few chests in the segmented run, I need to review the item list and see what might help for a single segment run that isn't too far out of the way.

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-17 11:42:48 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-17 11:40:30 pm

2011-01-17 11:11:52 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Doesn't the White Robe protect against status effects? We can get one in Mysidia Tower and protect Maria so no wipes occur.
For Toad I'm thinking of relying on Maiden's Kiss and Esuna 4
For petrify I'm thinking of giving Maria the Aegis Shield from Jade Passage B4. Up until that point I have to rely on Golden Needle and Esuna 5.

Isn't Toad just cast by Wizards? I think the main danger in any SS run is going to be a pack of Salamanders/Basilisk that ambush you Shocked

.

oh BTW I'm currently looking at how the SS of FF1 was done to get some insight into how to properly do a SS run. You may want to look at his notes too, they are quite thorough and much of the same tactics can carry over to FF2.

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-02-06 01:52:30 am

2011-01-18 03:09:55 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

I looked at the JP SS run on the FC (no report just time stamps for the SS run on GBA Cry

) and the runner definitely uses saves.
Source: http://ultimagarden.net/ff_rta.html
FC RTA: http://ultimagarden.net/report/dominator_ff2fc_rta.txt

Quote:

Power supply turned on 0:00:00
Ring obtained 0:18:57
Sargent defeated 1:12:45
Borghen defeated 2:07:54
Red Seoul defeated 2:15:58
Great war warship blasted/ Dreadnaught destroyed 2:23:52
Chimera defeated 2:38:37
Bighorn defeated 2:43:22
Lamia Queen defeated 2:47:57
Gottos defeated 2:59:11
Ultima obtained 3:23:21
Tornado/Cyclone cleared 3:30:30
Jade Passage 3:40:50
Emperor defeated 3:52:43
THE END
3:56:58

Borghen defeated : because it took the strategy to which the character is firmly forged by the first stage.
It advances smoothly since it is middle though it considerably takes time.

Apparently Borghen is his toughest fight and he is already beefed up enough to not have to worry about Red Soul.

GBA RTA: http://ultimagarden.net/ealis/bbs-log/9.html (near the bottom, post 543)

Quote:

GBAFF2RTA About: GBAFF2 From: [Takahashi] on 06/12/27 23:59:12
Minwu joined 0:15
Sargent defeated 0:24
Red Soul (Shrieker) defeated 1:03
Chimera defeated 1:27
Crystal rod obtained 2:01
One emperor defeated 2:28
Two emperor defeated 3:03
THE END 3:10

Maybe I'm being too strict on what the definition of SS is for FF2. I think saving and reloading is okay as long as it was recorded including time spent going to the main menu. What do you guys think? I also think I don't need Holy which means no early Mysidia to defeat Red Soul.

I looked at the JP SS run on the FC (no report just time stamps for the SS run on GBA :'( ) and the runner definitely uses saves. 
Source: http://ultimagarden.net/ff_rta.html
FC RTA: http://ultimagarden.net/report/dominator_ff2fc_rta.txt
[hidden][quote]Power supply turned on 0:00:00
Ring obtained 0:18:57
Sargent defeated 1:12:45
Borghen defeated 2:07:54
Red Seoul defeated 2:15:58
Great war warship blasted/ Dreadnaught destroyed 2:23:52
Chimera defeated 2:38:37
Bighorn defeated 2:43:22
Lamia Queen defeated 2:47:57
Gottos defeated 2:59:11
Ultima obtained 3:23:21
Tornado/Cyclone cleared 3:30:30
Jade Passage 3:40:50
Emperor defeated 3:52:43
THE END 
3:56:58

Borghen defeated : because it took the strategy to which the character is firmly forged by the first stage. 
It advances smoothly since it is middle though it considerably takes time. [/quote]
Apparently Borghen is his toughest fight and he is already beefed up enough to not have to worry about Red Soul.[/hidden]

GBA RTA: http://ultimagarden.net/ealis/bbs-log/9.html  (near the bottom, post 543)
[hidden][quote]GBAFF2RTA About: GBAFF2 From: [Takahashi] on 06/12/27 23:59:12
Minwu joined 0:15
Sargent defeated 0:24
Red Soul (Shrieker) defeated 1:03
Chimera defeated 1:27
Crystal rod obtained 2:01
One emperor defeated 2:28
Two emperor defeated 3:03
THE END 3:10 [/quote][/hidden]

Maybe I'm being too strict on what the definition of SS is for FF2. I think saving and reloading is okay as long as it was recorded including time spent going to the main menu. What do you guys think? I also think I don't need Holy which means no early Mysidia to defeat Red Soul.

Caracarn

2011-01-18 08:09:51 pm

Single Segment, by SDA definition, you have to play the game straight through from start to finish, without using any save states, unless it is specifically required by the game for you to save in order to progress. Saving/reloading and including that in the run time is what Real-Time Attack is defined as, which is not a valid SDA category at this time.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-18 08:32:40 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Then I won't feel bad for getting a ~4.5 hour time so I can properly level up when I need to play it a bit safer for a dungeon. I think that if I can safely defeat Red Soul (Shrieker), I'll have a good idea for what it takes to beat the other dungeons.

I think the hardest portions are going to be Red Soul, Dreadnaught (Ghast Cry

), and Lamia Queen.
What's your take on hardest sections so I can plan what I need for those better? I feel like I'm over looking something.

Caracarn

2011-01-18 11:03:40 pm

well I don't know what the hardest part will be in the GBA version, but the Dreadnaught, Deist Cavern, Cyclone, and Pandemonium will be among the hardest parts in the PS version, mainly due to the low chance to flee there. I think the main problem I have is figuring out how to quickly dispatch enemies that I can't flee from, since magic sucks so badly in the PS version. If I run into some 8 enemy encounter that I can't flee from, it's going to waste a lot of time hacking away at each one with Firion's sword.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-21 12:18:16 am

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Been spending too much time looking over the awesome runs from the marathon to work on my run. How is yours coming along Caracarn?

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-23 05:33:23 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-23 05:26:27 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-23 05:23:32 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-23 05:21:08 pm

2011-01-23 01:11:42 am

SS Any% FF2 GBA

So I did a run to see how my current strategy is working out for me for a SS run. (Test run done with saves, verifying stability of build)
Essentially the main three have the following roles:
Firion - Red Mage - uses swords, spells (order: Fire, Cure, Blink, Esuna, Life, Teleport)
Maria - Main mage - never attacks with anything but shields and spells (order: Fire, Cure, Teleport, Life, Holy, Esuna, Blink)
Guy - Main physical damage - uses fist, gets life and teleport when returning to Mysidia at the end

Need to get Esuna to Level 5 ASAP to deal with Break/Petrify/Stone. First enemy to be able to do this that I can recall are the Specter in the Coliseum. Hope your magic is def is up enough (I don't know the number needed to ensure more safety but it's rare that everyone gets hits by Break in the same cast.

Leon just joined, current party stats are:

Code:

Firion: 750 HP, 90 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-57%, Sword 8, Shield 7, Fire 6, Cure 7, Blink 6, Esuna 5, Teleport 1, Life 3
    Attack Set: Flame Sword, Gaia Blade, Gold Hairpin, Black Garb, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: Gaia Blade, Diamond Shield
Maria: 650 HP, 150 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-73%, Shield 6, Fire 6, Cure 8, Teleport 8, Holy 5, Esuna 5, Blink 6, Life 3
    Attack Set: Mythril Shield, Golden Shield, Gold Hairpin, Black Robe, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: White Robe
Guy: 950 HP, 10 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-58%, Fists 9, Shield 8, Life 1, Teleport 1,
    Attack Set: Gold Hairpin, Black Garb, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: Golden Shield
Leon: 1000 HP, 5 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 3-69%, Sword 9, Life 1, Teleport 1
    Defender, Blood Sword, Twist Headband, Power Vest, Power Armlet

I expect to be able to go through Jade and Pandemonium without many problems.

Break Down of Current Run:

My current game time is 10:30 hours. The reason why it is so long is that I got lost a couple times, had to back track a few times since I forgot something, visited the inn inefficiently, too many saves, and had quite a few times of leaving the game on while I was looking up some info online to verify some stuff as I was playing. Estimated time actually progressing is about 7:00 hours.

I expect my game time to drop to about 5 hours or less as I get more familiar with the route and properly plan for outings.

The route I'm using is the same as the one you used Caracarn for the Origins run. The only difference is where and how I level, which chest I go for, and which cities I stop at to get geared up appropriately. I also still make a dash for Mysidia while Minwu is with me so I can get Holy for Red Soul. Having only level 6 weapons makes that fight too hard and going to Mysidia early isn't as dangerous nor time consuming now that I know how to properly prepare for it.

For leveling up HP, it's best to cast Fire on the party with Minwu using Shell. The party does too much damage with physical attacks to make gaining HP early by physically attacking each other unstable. This has the added benefit of also leveling up MP. This is done is whenever I go to a town that I was going to use the Inn.

I was able to arrive at Mysidia at the 1 hour mark in my current run but should be able to get that down to around 30-45 mins without many problems.

Scariest parts of the run is when Specters or Basilisks ambush me. This is very rare. It should be able to be remedied by not running around a dungeon with twp weapons out. In dungeons that Break can be cast, just putting on a shield on everyone and switching out when a battle with mobs that I can't run away from appear, seems to be a decent strategy.

So I did a run to see how my current strategy is working out for me for a SS run. (Test run done with saves, verifying stability of build)
Essentially the main three have the following roles:
    Firion - Red Mage - uses swords, spells (order: Fire, Cure, Blink, Esuna, Life, Teleport)
    Maria - Main mage - never attacks with anything but shields and spells (order: Fire, Cure, Teleport, Life, Holy, Esuna, Blink)
    Guy - Main physical damage - uses fist, gets life and teleport when returning to Mysidia at the end

Need to get Esuna to Level 5 ASAP to deal with Break/Petrify/Stone. First enemy to be able to do this that I can recall are the Specter in the Coliseum. Hope your magic is def is up enough (I don't know the number needed to ensure more safety but it's rare that everyone gets hits by Break in the same cast.

Leon just joined, current party stats are:
[hidden][code]Firion: 750 HP, 90 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-57%, Sword 8, Shield 7, Fire 6, Cure 7, Blink 6, Esuna 5, Teleport 1, Life 3
    Attack Set: Flame Sword, Gaia Blade, Gold Hairpin, Black Garb, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: Gaia Blade, Diamond Shield
Maria: 650 HP, 150 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-73%, Shield 6, Fire 6, Cure 8, Teleport 8, Holy 5, Esuna 5, Blink 6, Life 3
    Attack Set: Mythril Shield, Golden Shield, Gold Hairpin, Black Robe, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: White Robe
Guy: 950 HP, 10 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 4-58%, Fists 9, Shield 8, Life 1, Teleport 1,
    Attack Set: Gold Hairpin, Black Garb, Thief's Gloves
    Escape Set: Golden Shield
Leon: 1000 HP, 5 MP, Evasion 3-99%, Magic Def 3-69%, Sword 9, Life 1, Teleport 1
    Defender, Blood Sword, Twist Headband, Power Vest, Power Armlet[/code]
I expect to be able to go through Jade and Pandemonium without many problems.[/hidden]

Break Down of Current Run:
[hidden]My current game time is 10:30 hours. The reason why it is so long is that I got lost a couple times, had to back track a few times since I forgot something, visited the inn inefficiently, too many saves, and had quite a few times of leaving the game on while I was looking up some info online to verify some stuff as I was playing. Estimated time actually progressing is about 7:00 hours.

I expect my game time to drop to about 5 hours or less as I get more familiar with the route and properly plan for outings.

The route I'm using is the same as the one you used Caracarn for the Origins run. The only difference is where and how I level, which chest I go for, and which cities I stop at to get geared up appropriately. I also still make a dash for Mysidia while Minwu is with me so I can get Holy for Red Soul. Having only level 6 weapons makes that fight too hard and going to Mysidia early isn't as dangerous nor time consuming now that I know how to properly prepare for it.

For leveling up HP, it's best to cast Fire on the party with Minwu using Shell. The party does too much damage with physical attacks to make gaining HP early by physically attacking each other unstable. This has the added benefit of also leveling up MP. This is done is whenever I go to a town that I was going to use the Inn.

I was able to arrive at Mysidia at the 1 hour mark in my current run but should be able to get that down to around 30-45 mins without many problems.

Scariest parts of the run is when Specters or Basilisks ambush me. This is very rare. It should be able to be remedied by not running around a dungeon with twp weapons out. In dungeons that Break can be cast, just putting on a shield on everyone and switching out when a battle with mobs that I can't run away from appear, seems to be a decent strategy.[/hidden]

Eisenefaust

2011-01-23 10:42:57 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

I've been thinking more about it and I think that curative items are cheap enough that I don't need Esuna at all. I also don't have the same item limitations as the other versions. Thoughts?

Caracarn

2011-01-24 03:46:49 am

Well im not having much luck with the Cyclone segments, I've had to go back and redo it a few times now figuring out the best places to save.

And I also realized that I am a complete idiot for not buying Banish in Mysidia at the same time I buy Life for Gareth, because I totally forgot that you can use Banish to port up one level. So instead of Banishing myself out of 5F after picking up the Defender, I have to run back through 2 encounters to get back to 4F. Banish would place me right at the stairs going to 5F also, which is right next to the stairs going to 6F. But yeah, it is far too late to go back and get that now, and I don't have the save for it anymore either. I would guess that Banish would save at least 20 seconds here, maybe more, so it is pretty unfortunate that I will be unable to implement it.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-24 09:59:11 am

SS Any% FF2 GBA

That's a good idea! I can use that to save some time in my SS run. (Banish in PSX is Warp in GBA and Warp in PSX is Teleport in GBA LOL!).

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2011-01-25 12:58:46 am

2011-01-24 11:41:08 am

Another place Banish would be useful would be Dreadnought 2F, after you rescue Cid, to go back to 1F quickly. There's no way I can get enough Gil to buy Banish that early in the segmented run though.

Since you start at 7F in Palamecia castle, it would be really funny if you could banish down to 6F, instead of falling down to 1F, but I'm almost positive that Banish/Warp cannot be used there. If I could use it, i would probably have to redo the entire run to put that in.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-24 12:11:58 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

For not getting destroyed by status effects I was thinking before I head into Jade Passage to have the Excalibur (from Deist) and White Robe (Tower of Mysidia 1F)
Then while heading to Emperor, I could pick up Aegis Shield (Jade Passage B4), and Ribbon (Pandaemonium 6F). Maybe even Protect Ring (Jade Passage B5).

I could equip White Robe on Maria, Aegis Shield on Firion (also has Masamune(Pandaemonium 4F) for using Haste turn #1 on Leon), Ribbon on Guy, and Excalibur on Leon (with Blood Sword).

Ribbon may be too long of a fight with Astaroth and not worth it.

What do you think?

Toothache

2011-01-25 01:20:21 pm

Let the music play!

Quote from Eisenefaust:

Ribbon may be too long of a fight with Astaroth and not worth it.

That's why you get it from Queen Lamia instead.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-25 01:59:48 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Quote from Toothache:

Quote from Eisenefaust:

Ribbon

That's why you get it from Queen Lamia instead.

I agree that this would be ideal but in an SS run I can't guarantee luck like I can in a segmented run.

Does anyone have any tips for making the random rare encounters easier and is there anyway to reduce chance of being ambushed? As far as I know it's just evasion based, but I don't know what the formula is or how monster ranks/stats affect it.

Caracarn

2011-01-25 03:57:04 pm

I can't speak for GBA version, but in the PS version Pre-emptive Strike/Enemy Strikes First is affected by Agility.

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 10:38:04 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 09:56:12 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 07:45:40 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 06:33:04 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 06:25:33 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-25 05:50:36 pm

2011-01-25 05:47:52 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

OH MY GOSH!

Quote:

FFII - Easy weapon skill levels
Platform: GameBoy Advance

Get into a battle with enemies that CAN'T run away, then kill all but one enemy. Equip everybody in the party with two shields (this can be done in the Item menu) and keep holding down the A button for about 30-50 turns. Then equip everybody with the weapons that you would like to level up, and kill the remaining enemy. You will get weapon skill experience in the weapons that you are equipped with at the end of the battle instead of leveling up your shield skill.

Just tried this and verified. WOW! I can't AB select but I can manipulate weaponskills like crazy with a level 1 shield skill early on and get an easy bunch of levels.

[EDIT]Also note that the rank of an ally is always considered 2. So at the start it's best to target your allies first then attack an enemy.
[EDIT2]This also has the effect of raising your party's evasion level since you are targeting them of course.

BTW the formula from Sky Render's guide on GameFAQs has it as this:

Quote:

RNK = Rank of first target
ACT = Number of attacks after first attack
EXP = Experience
WLV = Weapon skill level
EXP = (10 + RNK + ACT) - WLV
If (RNK + ACT) < WLV then EXP = 0

Looks like I was right in why I noticed I didn't get any experience early on in previous posts. Sweet! MOAR DATA!

So many great formulas in it as well. I'm sure a lot of it is the same for the other version just exp needed to level is different (100 for all other versions, I think). The guide linked above basically has the translated versions of the formulas found here.

[EDIT3] I just tried this at the very start to see what the effect would be when I got Minwu to my party and Firion had Sword 7, Shield 3; Maria had Shield 7; Guy had Unarmed 5, Shield 4. I got really unlucky with not being able to unequip my shield since they would run away before I could do so. I think the best tactic would be to do 4 rounds before switching weapons. This means that weapon level can be 6 before getting no exp for only using 4 turns since your party are all counted as rank 2. FINALLY SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS ME TO GET LEVELED UP FASTER on the GBA version happy

(previously I was rank 3-4 before getting Minwu Grin

[EDIT4] Another OMG moment: I just realized with this trick I don't even need to stop by Mysidia early for Holy + Thief Gloves + Blink anymore. I can get high enough weapon level to ignore the defense on Red Soul and shield high enough level to not need Thief Gloves for random encounters. The only thing the gloves get me is the extra agility, which is good but I can hold off on it. THIS TRICK JUST SAVED ME ABOUT 30 MINUTES on my time!!

[EDIT5] By the time I had Unarmed 10 on Guy in this manner, I had Sword 11 on Firion. With the Ancient Sword it was a 1st turn Curse (dropping Def) and Guy hit it for 1200 damage. Verified no need for Holy, WOOHOO!! Best part about this method is that it is a safe way to level up weapon skill AND evasion. This makes me soooo happy! happy

[url=http://www.cheats-area.com/GameBoy-Advance-cheats/Final-Fantasy-1-and-2-Dawn-of-Souls-cheat-codes.html]OH MY GOSH![/url]
[quote]FFII - Easy weapon skill levels
Platform: GameBoy Advance

Get into a battle with enemies that CAN'T run away, then kill all but one enemy. Equip everybody in the party with two shields (this can be done in the Item menu) and keep holding down the A button for about 30-50 turns. Then equip everybody with the weapons that you would like to level up, and kill the remaining enemy. You will get weapon skill experience in the weapons that you are equipped with at the end of the battle instead of leveling up your shield skill.[/quote] Just tried this and verified. WOW! I can't AB select but I can manipulate weaponskills like crazy with a level 1 shield skill early on and get an easy bunch of levels.

[EDIT]Also note that the rank of an ally is always considered 2. So at the start it's best to target your allies first then attack an enemy.
[EDIT2]This also has the effect of raising your party's evasion level since you are targeting them of course.

BTW the formula from [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/920240-final-fantasy-i-and-ii-dawn-of-souls/faqs/34834]Sky Render's guide on GameFAQs[/url] has it as this: [quote]RNK = Rank of first target
ACT = Number of attacks after first attack
EXP = Experience
WLV = Weapon skill level
EXP = (10 + RNK + ACT) - WLV
If (RNK + ACT) < WLV then EXP = 0
[/quote] Looks like I was right in why I noticed I didn't get any experience early on in previous posts. Sweet! MOAR DATA!

So many great formulas in it as well. I'm sure a lot of it is the same for the other version just exp needed to level is different (100 for all other versions, I think). The guide linked above basically has the translated versions of the formulas [url=http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/gba/difference.htm]found here[/url].

[EDIT3] I just tried this at the very start to see what the effect would be when I got Minwu to my party and Firion had Sword 7, Shield 3; Maria had Shield 7; Guy had Unarmed 5, Shield 4. I got really unlucky with not being able to unequip my shield since they would run away before I could do so. I think the best tactic would be to do 4 rounds before switching weapons. This means that weapon level can be 6 before getting no exp for only using 4 turns since your party are all counted as rank 2. FINALLY SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS ME TO GET LEVELED UP FASTER on the GBA version :happy: (previously I was rank 3-4 before getting Minwu ;D

[EDIT4] Another OMG moment: I just realized with this trick I don't even need to stop by Mysidia early for Holy + Thief Gloves + Blink anymore. I can get high enough weapon level to ignore the defense on Red Soul and shield high enough level to not need Thief Gloves for random encounters. The only thing the gloves get me is the extra agility, which is good but I can hold off on it. THIS TRICK JUST SAVED ME ABOUT 30 MINUTES on my time!!

[EDIT5] By the time I had Unarmed 10 on Guy in this manner, I had Sword 11 on Firion. With the Ancient Sword it was a 1st turn Curse (dropping Def) and Guy hit it for 1200 damage. Verified no need for Holy, WOOHOO!! Best part about this method is that it is a safe way to level up weapon skill AND evasion. This makes me soooo happy!:happy::thumbsup: ;D

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-29 02:51:10 am

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-29 02:44:10 am

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-29 02:43:58 am

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-29 02:09:44 am

2011-01-29 12:28:42 am

SS Any% FF2 GBA

So I did some more testing of the in the above post and I found out a couple things with it:

Since EXP is kept on each hand when you switch out weapons and go to unarmed you will only have gotten EXP as if you had one weapon since you can't dual wield fists. (Too bad, this would have considerably sped up leveling unarmed).
The actions are what are counted not EXP. What this means is that if you attack with two Shields lvl 1, then switch out to two Swords lvl 5, it will be as if you had taken two actions with the Swords and not count as experience points gained against a level 1 enemy due to the exp condition listed above.

[EDIT] So I did some calculating to see how many levels I need to get for the SS run. (Calculations should also work for any version of the game)
Evasion % is calculated by EVA = (AGI + Weapon Evasion + (Weapon Evasion * Weapon Lvl) + Shield Evasion + (Shield Evasion * Shield Lvl)) - Armor Evasion Penalty.
[Taken from GameFAQs guide linked here.]
In order to get Evasion % of 99 on Maria with two Mythril Shields (12%): only needs Shield 3: 96% evasion. This assumes AGI is zero and no penalty from armor. So in practice 3 is all you need to run from any encounter that is fleeable Shocked

For Firion and Guy Assuming using Golden or Diamond Shield (14%): only need Shield 6: 98% evasion Assuming AGI is zero and no penalty from armor. Probably can get away with Shield 4 honestly since they will be in Black Garb (20%), Golden Hairpin (8%), and Thief Gloves(7%): 95%.

[EDIT2] The real leveling time comes in to leveling up Unarmed 10 (Guy), Teleport 8 (Maria), Fire 6 (Maria and Firion), Blink 6 (Maria and Firion).
Firion doesn't need much past sword 6 to do his job well (Curse monkey).

So I did some more testing of the in the above post and I found out a couple things with it:
[list]
[*] Since EXP is kept on each hand when you switch out weapons and go to unarmed you will only have gotten EXP as if you had one weapon since you can't dual wield fists. (Too bad, this would have considerably sped up leveling unarmed).
[*] The actions are what are counted not EXP. What this means is that if you attack with two Shields lvl 1, then switch out to two Swords lvl 5, it will be as if you had taken two actions with the Swords and not count as experience points gained against a level 1 enemy due to the exp condition listed above.
[/list]
[EDIT] So I did some calculating to see how many levels I need to get for the SS run. (Calculations should also work for any version of the game)
Evasion % is calculated by EVA = (AGI + Weapon Evasion + (Weapon Evasion * Weapon Lvl) + Shield Evasion + (Shield Evasion * Shield Lvl)) - Armor Evasion Penalty. 
[Taken from GameFAQs guide linked [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/920240-final-fantasy-i-and-ii-dawn-of-souls/faqs/34834]here[/url].]
In order to get Evasion % of 99 on Maria with two Mythril Shields (12%): only needs Shield 3: 96% evasion. This assumes AGI is zero and no penalty from armor. So in practice 3 is all you need to run from any encounter that is fleeable :o
For Firion and Guy Assuming using Golden or Diamond Shield (14%): only need Shield 6: 98% evasion Assuming AGI is zero and no penalty from armor. Probably can get away with Shield 4 honestly since they will be in Black Garb (20%), Golden Hairpin (8%), and Thief Gloves(7%): 95%.

[EDIT2] The real leveling time comes in to leveling up Unarmed 10 (Guy), Teleport 8 (Maria), Fire 6 (Maria and Firion), Blink 6 (Maria and Firion). 
Firion doesn't need much past sword 6 to do his job well (Curse monkey).

Eisenefaust

2011-02-03 07:20:40 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

SS route update time!!!! (And time for another LONG POST! you know you missed them Tongue

)
intro battle: remove all of Leon's gear and flee
Sell all armor, buy two bucklers, 1 cure, and 2 fire.
Firion: Equip Shield in main hand, Sword in off hand, learn Fire and Cure
Maria: Equip two Shields, learn Fire
Guy: Equip shield in main hand, nothing in off hand
(this is mainly done to maximize the # of attacks and level ups)
On road to Fynn and back again
Maria: Use fire as aoe to kill enemies faster, after no more mp attack with shields, if level 3 shields, equip sword in main hand and level it up some
Firion: Use Sword and shield combo until Maria is out of mp then use Fire. Use cure as needed.
Guy: attack with shield and fist, try to make sure to get at least the number of attacks as your level in fists in order to get exp.
If Maria is out of MP and only a single enemy just run away, better levels later.
After Minwu joins
Buy 4 more bucklers, 1 cure for Maria, equip Minwu with two bucklers and sell his other stuff.
Head to Paloom and take ship to Poft, walk to Salamand
the goal here is to level up Minwu's Teleport up to 1.5 and get experience with fire for Firion and Maria
Before entering Salamand make sure to use Sap by minwu on each party member to gain MP in battles.
Use INN at Salamand
Head to Sergent in Semitt falls
Run from every non goblin guard fight
In these fights, use teleport from minwu to single target kill them, cure with Firion, if still Fire 1 on either caster, cast on party and heal with other
Have everyone else use two shields and attack themselves
after Guy has attacked himself with two shields his weapon level number of times,
Swap to weapon and shield on everyone, finish the fight with Minwu
Get Teleport in B5 (take bridge across before fighting boss).
Make sure to have enough MP on Maria to Teleport out.
Walk back to Salamand.
make sure to have at least 1400 gil,
Before making it to salamand make sure to run party out of mp and use sap as needed after health is topped off
use INN, buy Life (1000g), teach it to Firion.
Normal route to Bafsk but instead of heading directly back to Altair, head from Paloom to Fynn and kill Captains
Easy way to do this is put Maria and Minwu in back row, have each cast teleport. If a member goes down, bring back with Minwu.
After Maria is out of MP, put her in front row and move Firion to back row for casting life and building hp on Maria.
Fight as long as Firion has enough mp life and Minwu can cast Teleport.
Get 12k - 15k gil
Golden Armor 1k, Flame Bow 2k, Curse Tome 4k, Toad Tome 5k
(This entire detour took me like 15 mins total time and made dreadnought and deist so much easier for me)
With the money, buy the following:
3 mythril shields (300g: 2 Maria, 1 Firion), 2 Life (1000g: Maria, Guy), 2 Teleport (1000g: Firion, Guy), 1 Warp (1000g: Firion),
2 Blink (300g: Firion, Maria), 1 Cure (100g: Guy), 1 Cottage (2000g), 2 Ether (1000g),
Airship to Kashuan (400g), 20 eyedrops (40g), 20 antidotes (30g),
Total money spent = 11400g (reason for extra gil is to make sure to have enough to use the INN as needed,
If more than 12k, buy extra mythril shields for party as available, max of 5. Always keep around 300g for INN.
*The reason why I need these spells this early is: Fire 5 for undead on Dreadnought, Blink 5-6 for Big Horn boss, Teleport 7 for Big Horn boss, Warp for easy backing after getting sunfire in Kashuan, in Deist cavern after pendant, and warp in cyclone after defender chest.

I make sure to have at least Fists 7 on Guy and Sword 6 on Firion for the Red Soul battle. Firion will use Ancient Sword and get Sleep Blade in Dreadnought.

Pretty normal after this just make sure keep stocked on ethers and cottages, I like to have a cottage between every dungeon if I'm unable to get back to a town (e.g. 1 between Kashuan and Dreadnought; or 2 between Cave of Mysidia, Leviathan, and Tower of Mysidia). I also like to have 5 ethers per dungeon and 25 of each curative item after Lamia Queen fight since every status effect can occur in Coliseum and all areas after that.

Well that's basically what I got for a route for now. It seems pretty stable so far. Also note I pick up: White Robe, Aegis Shield, Excalibur, and Protect Ring to help in Jade and onward. I also get Masamune to get Haste cast first turn of emperor 2 fight. If done right I have 99% evasion with everyone. Leon with Defender, others with a shield (Maria with two) in order to avoid battles on way to emperor.

tl;dr kill captains for money, two casters with Firion and Maria, Fists for Red Soul boss, Fire 5 for undead fights, Blink 5-6 and Teleport 7 for Big Horn boss. Use swords as back up skill for Maria when no MP, use shield swap for easy leveling, protect self with items (no esuna). Use Sap from Minwu to raise MP before and INN.

SS route update time!!!! (And time for another LONG POST! you know you missed them :P )
intro battle: remove all of Leon's gear and flee
Sell all armor, buy two bucklers, 1 cure, and 2 fire. 
    Firion: Equip Shield in main hand, Sword in off hand, learn Fire and Cure
    Maria: Equip two Shields, learn Fire
    Guy: Equip shield in main hand, nothing in off hand
    (this is mainly done to maximize the # of attacks and level ups)
On road to Fynn and back again
    Maria: Use fire as aoe to kill enemies faster, after no more mp attack with shields, if level 3 shields, equip sword in main hand and level it up some
    Firion: Use Sword and shield combo until Maria is out of mp then use Fire. Use cure as needed.
    Guy: attack with shield and fist, try to make sure to get at least the number of attacks as your level in fists in order to get exp.
    If Maria is out of MP and only a single enemy just run away, better levels later.
After Minwu joins 
    Buy 4 more bucklers, 1 cure for Maria, equip Minwu with two bucklers and sell his other stuff.
Head to Paloom and take ship to Poft, walk to Salamand
    the goal here is to level up Minwu's Teleport up to 1.5 and get experience with fire for Firion and Maria
    Before entering Salamand make sure to use Sap by minwu on each party member to gain MP in battles.
    Use INN at Salamand
Head to Sergent in Semitt falls
    Run from every non goblin guard fight
        In these fights, use teleport from minwu to single target kill them, cure with Firion, if still Fire 1 on either caster, cast on party and heal with other
        Have everyone else use two shields and attack themselves
        after Guy has attacked himself with two shields his weapon level number of times, 
        Swap to weapon and shield on everyone, finish the fight with Minwu
    Get Teleport in B5 (take bridge across before fighting boss).
    Make sure to have enough MP on Maria to Teleport out.
Walk back to Salamand.
    make sure to have at least 1400 gil,
    Before making it to salamand make sure to run party out of mp and use sap as needed after health is topped off
    use INN, buy Life (1000g), teach it to Firion.
Normal route to Bafsk but instead of heading directly back to Altair, head from Paloom to Fynn and kill Captains 
    Easy way to do this is put Maria and Minwu in back row, have each cast teleport. If a member goes down, bring back with Minwu.
    After Maria is out of MP, put her in front row and move Firion to back row for casting life and building hp on Maria.
    Fight as long as Firion has enough mp life and Minwu can cast Teleport.
    Get 12k - 15k gil
        Golden Armor 1k, Flame Bow 2k, Curse Tome 4k, Toad Tome 5k
    (This entire detour took me like 15 mins total time and made dreadnought and deist so much easier for me)
With the money, buy the following: 
    3 mythril shields (300g: 2 Maria, 1 Firion), 2 Life (1000g: Maria, Guy), 2 Teleport (1000g: Firion, Guy), 1 Warp (1000g: Firion),
    2 Blink (300g: Firion, Maria), 1 Cure (100g: Guy), 1 Cottage (2000g), 2 Ether (1000g), 
    Airship to Kashuan (400g), 20 eyedrops (40g), 20 antidotes (30g), 
Total money spent = 11400g (reason for extra gil is to make sure to have enough to use the INN as needed, 
    If more than 12k, buy extra mythril shields for party as available, max of 5. Always keep around 300g for INN.
    *The reason why I need these spells this early is: Fire 5 for undead on Dreadnought, Blink 5-6 for Big Horn boss, Teleport 7 for Big Horn boss, Warp for easy backing after getting sunfire in Kashuan, in Deist cavern after pendant, and warp in cyclone after defender chest.

I make sure to have at least Fists 7 on Guy and Sword 6 on Firion for the Red Soul battle. Firion will use Ancient Sword and get Sleep Blade in Dreadnought.

Pretty normal after this just make sure keep stocked on ethers and cottages, I like to have a cottage between every dungeon if I'm unable to get back to a town (e.g. 1 between Kashuan and Dreadnought; or 2 between Cave of Mysidia, Leviathan, and Tower of Mysidia). I also like to have 5 ethers per dungeon and 25 of each curative item after Lamia Queen fight since every status effect can occur in Coliseum and all areas after that.

Well that's basically what I got for a route for now. It seems pretty stable so far. Also note I pick up: White Robe, Aegis Shield, Excalibur, and Protect Ring to help in Jade and onward. I also get Masamune to get Haste cast first turn of emperor 2 fight. If done right I have 99% evasion with everyone. Leon with Defender, others with a shield (Maria with two) in order to avoid battles on way to emperor.

tl;dr kill captains for money, two casters with Firion and Maria, Fists for Red Soul boss, Fire 5 for undead fights, Blink 5-6 and Teleport 7 for Big Horn boss. Use swords as back up skill for Maria when no MP, use shield swap for easy leveling, protect self with items (no esuna). Use Sap from Minwu to raise MP before and INN.

Eisenefaust

2011-02-05 11:38:26 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Decided to take a look at nico and found a RTA GBA run (3:28:22). (I believe the runner's name is Takohiga if I am interpreting the page correctly)
If you are interested in watching it links are in the hidden.

Caracarn

2011-02-06 03:32:11 am

How do you view the video on that site? The links work but I don't see any video. I just set up my new computer, so I may be missing some plugins/codecs etc.

Dscaler seems to be working on my new computer so I should be able to keep working on the run now, I need a new controller though. The D-Pad is getting worn out badly.

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-02-06 12:10:18 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-02-06 12:05:09 pm

2011-02-06 12:02:29 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

You have to log into the site to view them on it.
Cyghfer and Zenic made a great post to help us do that: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/the_nicovideonicolive_index.html

However you can also go through: http://d.hatena.ne.jp
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/<sm#>
replace <sm#> with the one from the video you want to view
e.g. here is the first video: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm13286802

or you can use the nico redirector: http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html
just paste in the nico url into the box and done Smiley

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-02-06 05:05:28 pm

2011-02-06 05:03:55 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

I can't wait to see your run when you are done Caracarn.

I learned quite a few things watching the video and I think they can help improve my route substantially.

The main thing I forgot about was the snowfield memory mini-game to get lots of money. That will be even faster than my captain massacre.
Since he got so much money from the mini-game he was able to never level teleport and use scrolls the entire time. This is a great time and mp saver.
He better optimized his party formation a lot more than I was and guaranteed who the melee enemies would attack
He only leveled up Firion's Sword to 5 while he was in the back row so that guy would get better unarmed skill.
He bought his end game shields rather than collect them from chests (Golden Shields)
He unlearned Cure on Minwu and then had him learn it again so it would be cheaper to cast.
He bought 5 bucklers and 3 cures to start and didn't worry about leveling up Fire until after Bafsk.
He defeats Sergeant and Adamantoise without the use of Teleport
White Robe on Firion
Get Excalibur, skips protect ring and skips ancient sword. [Leon uses Excalibur up until Last Boss]
Buys Haste (learned by Maria) and Berserk [Uses Haste on Leon when fighting Lamia Queens]
Fire is level 5 when entering Jade

Strategy for Emperor: Everyone front row Berserk Scroll and Hermes Shoes used on Leon, Leon uses Blood Sword + Buckler (WTF!), Guy attacks with shields. (Very luck based) Better to have Leon dual wield with Blood Sword, have Guy attack, Firion Blink, and have Maria Haste Leon is a better strategy imo.

Not sure how I feel about not teleporting the adamantoise and skipping the ancient sword honestly. He uses Antacrtic Wind (Firion), Fire twice (both Maria and Guy) and two Fire Scrolls (Josef then Firion) against the adamantoise. He ends up resetting a few times due to getting ambushed by the boss but then it works out for him.
Nearly all of the resets could have been prevented if he had also bought Blink Scrolls and used those along with the Teleport Scrolls. I would need some curative items still (He never bought any maiden kisses to cure toad since he could just reset and it's a rare encounter). The way he dealt with the Wood Golems was sub optimal, he just kept having the party use Fire when he could have just attacked them with the blood sword 2-3 times. His pathing was also sub optimal for walking to Semitt and through Bafsk, Emperor strategy was terrible, rest wasn't that bad.

When you get a chance to watch it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on his run.

I can't wait to see your run when you are done Caracarn.

I learned quite a few things watching the video and I think they can help improve my route substantially.
[list]
[*]The main thing I forgot about was the snowfield memory mini-game to get lots of money. That will be even faster than my captain massacre.
[*]Since he got so much money from the mini-game he was able to never level teleport and use scrolls the entire time. This is a great time and mp saver.
[*]He better optimized his party formation a lot more than I was and guaranteed who the melee enemies would attack
[*]He only leveled up Firion's Sword to 5 while he was in the back row so that guy would get better unarmed skill.
[*]He bought his end game shields rather than collect them from chests (Golden Shields)
[*]He unlearned Cure on Minwu and then had him learn it again so it would be cheaper to cast.
[*]He bought 5 bucklers and 3 cures to start and didn't worry about leveling up Fire until after Bafsk.
[*]He defeats Sergeant and Adamantoise without the use of Teleport 
[*]White Robe on Firion
[*]Get Excalibur, skips protect ring and skips ancient sword. [Leon uses Excalibur up until Last Boss]
[*]Buys Haste (learned by Maria) and Berserk [Uses Haste on Leon when fighting Lamia Queens]
[*]Fire is level 5 when entering Jade
[/list]
Strategy for Emperor: Everyone front row Berserk Scroll and Hermes Shoes used on Leon, Leon uses Blood Sword + Buckler (WTF!), Guy attacks with shields. (Very luck based) Better to have Leon dual wield with Blood Sword, have Guy attack, Firion Blink, and have Maria Haste Leon is a better strategy imo.

Not sure how I feel about not teleporting the adamantoise and skipping the ancient sword honestly. He uses Antacrtic Wind (Firion), Fire twice (both Maria and Guy) and two Fire Scrolls (Josef then Firion) against the adamantoise. He ends up resetting a few times due to getting ambushed by the boss but then it works out for him.
Nearly all of the resets could have been prevented if he had also bought Blink Scrolls and used those along with the Teleport Scrolls. I would need some curative items still (He never bought any maiden kisses to cure toad since he could just reset and it's a rare encounter). The way he dealt with the Wood Golems was sub optimal, he just kept having the party use Fire when he could have just attacked them with the blood sword 2-3 times. His pathing was also sub optimal for walking to Semitt and through Bafsk, Emperor strategy was terrible, rest wasn't that bad.

When you get a chance to watch it, I'd love to hear your thoughts on his run.

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-02-10 07:13:48 pm

2011-02-10 07:09:09 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Using the RTA route with a few modifactions I achieved a test run time of 5:45:xx but that easily had over an hour of mistakes. Sad

My goal for my SS run is < 4 hours; however, it should be possible to run ~3.5 hours with the route, if luck is good. I'll be streaming in about a month when I get my capture card and any advice would be much appreciated. thumbsup

I had three major problems with my run that contributed the most to the time delay

Being unfamiliar with the route, I had to double back a several times.
Had one death in Pandaemonium from Death Rider x2 and a Mythril Golem due to never facing those before. If you face them individually, you can flee from them. I found a strategy that works now though. Teleport scroll the Death Riders. Blood Sword kill the Mythril Golem. Same as Sergeants and Wood Golems in Paramecia.
I had a major brain fart when I equipped the blood sword into Leon's right hand for the entirety that he was in my party. I was trying to figure out why he was only dealing 2600 damage with it to the emperor for like 10 turns. Of course switching it to the left hand made him hit for the expected 4500+ and the emperor went down easily after that. [EDIT] just loaded the last save before emperor and tested what would happen if I did the fight correctly. Answer: 3 turns = dead emperor.

Using the RTA route with a few modifactions I achieved a test run time of 5:45:xx but that easily had over an hour of mistakes. :(
My goal for my SS run is < 4 hours; however, it should be possible to run ~3.5 hours with the route, if luck is good. I'll be streaming in about a month when I get my capture card and any advice would be much appreciated. :thumbsup:

I had three major problems with my run that contributed the most to the time delay
[list]
[*]Being unfamiliar with the route, I had to double back a several times.
[*]Had one death in Pandaemonium from Death Rider x2 and a Mythril Golem due to never facing those before. If you face them individually, you can flee from them. I found a strategy that works now though. Teleport scroll the Death Riders. Blood Sword kill the Mythril Golem. Same as Sergeants and Wood Golems in Paramecia.
[*]I had a major brain fart when I equipped the blood sword into Leon's right hand for the entirety that he was in my party. I was trying to figure out why he was only dealing 2600 damage with it to the emperor for like 10 turns. :( Of course switching it to the left hand made him hit for the expected 4500+ and the emperor went down easily after that. [EDIT] just loaded the last save before emperor and tested what would happen if I did the fight correctly. Answer: 3 turns = dead emperor.
[/list]