Wanting to do a FFII speedrun(Origins, not IV)

2009-08-30 08:19:11 pm

Bwahahaha... there WILL be domination!

awesome...

Still kinda bummed that the run was rejected, but I'm totally thrilled to hear that you're going to improve it because of the downstep...

good luck!

Caracarn

2009-08-30 10:01:05 pm

I was initially not planning on redoing it since I was mad at the rejection, but after getting everything sorted out, the video does look a lot better at full framerate. And since I know that it can be done slightly faster, the new run will be better to have on SDA. If my previous run had been accepted, I wouldn't be redoing it at all.

After Segment 15, I have saved nearly a minute. At this pace, the final time should be 4-5 minutes faster, although that pace may change later on.

Aitamen

2009-08-31 08:25:39 am

Bwahahaha... there WILL be domination!

^ Right

I was just saying that good (an even better time) will come out of the bad (the rejection).

Mostly I just wanted to throw you some more support without just posting "good luck!" >_>

Caracarn

2009-09-02 11:34:40 pm

Small update, no need to give long details this time around. Done with Segment 19, which is Adamantoise + Borghen. So far about 1 minute 22 seconds faster than the previous run. Total time saved will be 5 minutes 10 seconds at the current pace.

SoulReaver911

2009-09-05 05:15:01 pm

Needs More Long Runs

Pretty damn awesome. That's all I really have to say.

Oh and props for starting all over again.

Caracarn

2009-09-06 06:34:01 am

I've finished Segment 24 which is getting the Chocobo and running to the Dreadnought. Time saved is about 2 minutes 8 seconds now. The current pace puts the finishing time at about 6 minutes 24 seconds faster. Those values are based on the differences in video length, so the actual game time saved is slightly less, but not by too much.

I also have 3 less steps at this point than I did in the previous run, so it will be interesting to see how that affects encounters later in the game. Most notably Deist Cavern B2, which I believe will have 4 encounters instead of 3 now, if I do everything the same until then.

Caracarn

2010-11-03 08:24:58 pm

This run is back in the works after an almost 14 month hiatus. I have finally found the motivation to keep working on it, for the time being anyway. I finished the Dreadnought segments (25-29). It's still around 2 minutes faster than the original run at this point, so it's looking pretty good. Still got a long way to go, so it's most likely not going to be done before the end of this year. I might have a better estimate when I get a bit farther, considering I still have some really hard segments to get through.

Rilo

2010-11-05 10:08:20 pm

just posting to say i'm a huge fan of FF2. Watched your run and facepalmed at how stupid good going barehand is. Would have never thought of that, great find! Your mastery of the game was present throughout the entire run, shame it didnt get verified. Looking forward to an improved run!

Caracarn

2010-11-09 03:07:57 am

Finished Segments 30-32.

Segment 30 is where i sell the Diamond shield and buy Fire scrolls and get the ship + Leila and park at tropical island

Segment 31 is running through Tropical Island up to the boss

Segment 32 is the boss Gigan Rhino, getting the Black Mask, and taking the ship up to the Deist Cavern entrance.

There hasn't been much room to improve over the original run in the last several segments so it's still only about 2 minutes faster, or slightly less actually. Hopefully i will be able to cut the time down more in later segments through better execution or other changes.

Carcinogen

2010-11-11 02:05:52 pm

I'm glad you're still working on this. FFII is not a popular game by any stretch (as a matter of fact, I hated it a lot at first), but its leveling mechanics makes for some very interesting replay value.

I actually picked this game up again not too long ago and started piddling around with the idea of an initial stats game if it were possible. That Japanese FFII site by 'Surume' claims it possible to beat the game with only weapon levels being raised at all, but I can only think of possible strategies for an initial HP/MP game. Particularly, grinding strength, restoring Maria's MP every time she uses Ice, and trashing the spell when it raises a level to keep her from consuming any more, in effect raising her Magic stat but not her MP. Although it's probably just as well to use Magic Books as items for the battles in which it actually does matter. Surume also mentions something about 'one hit kills', but I'm drawing some serious blanks.

Caracarn

Edit history:

Caracarn: 2010-11-15 11:36:17 pm

2010-11-15 11:32:32 pm

I finally finished the Deist Cavern segments, which took forever, as I knew they would. The B3-B4 segment alone took over 600 attempts. Actually that one (Segment 38) was the only really long one, the rest were not too bad. I've kind of lost track of the exact time saved, since theres no second timer in the game, I'm just going to maintain that it's about 2 minutes faster than the old run still.

Segment 33 - Getting the pendant and Dragon Egg

Segment 34 - Getting through B1

Segment 35, 36, 37 - Getting through B2 in 3 separate segments ( fleeing is insanely rare here).

Segment 38 - Getting through B3 and part of B4 (one of the most annoying segments in the run).

Segment 39 - Getting through the rest of B4, killing the Chimera, dropping the egg in the Spring, warping out.

Carc, can you give me a link to the site you were looking at? I went back to the links you posted earlier in this thread ( i hadn't looked at them for a year), but some of the links/pages are dead now. Googling for japanese webpages is rather difficult, lol.

I finally finished the Deist Cavern segments, which took forever, as I knew they would. The B3-B4 segment alone took over 600 attempts. Actually that one (Segment 38) was the only really long one, the rest were not too bad.  I've kind of lost track of the exact time saved, since theres no second timer in the game, I'm just going to maintain that it's about 2 minutes faster than the old run still.

Segment 33 - Getting the pendant and Dragon Egg

Segment 34 - Getting through B1

Segment 35, 36, 37 - Getting through B2 in 3 separate segments ( fleeing is insanely rare here).

Segment 38 - Getting through B3 and part of B4 (one of the most annoying segments in the run).

Segment 39 - Getting through the rest of B4, killing the Chimera, dropping the egg in the Spring, warping out.

Carc, can you give me a link to the site you were looking at?  I went back to the links you posted earlier in this thread ( i hadn't looked at them for a year), but some of the links/pages are dead now.  Googling for japanese webpages is rather difficult, lol.

Carcinogen

2010-11-16 07:28:22 am

Sure.

http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/replay/index.htm

Surume has a really weird page layout. He puts links in some really funny places, so keep a lookout for 'em.

http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/replay/text7.htm

That's the time attack page. If you're using google translate, it'll be pretty hard to understand unless you know some rudimentary Japanese. Plenty of words that don't translate very well into English.

Caracarn

2010-11-18 02:52:52 pm

Finished Segments 40-42, nothing too difficult here.

Segment 40 is going from Deist up to Hilda's room in Altair. Took some time to get through without Enemy strikes first, but not too bad.

Segment 41 is the Lamia Queen. I still get the Diamond Plate from it, since Firion will need to take some hits in the Fynn Basement.

Segment 42 is going from Altair to the Coliseum. I played around with using a different route on this segment, to park the ship farther up and walking down to the coliseum, but i ended up having 1 more encounter than the original route. I also tested out some later segments using that route, and it doesn't look promising. Even though i take more "steps" with the original route, most of those extra steps are in the ocean, and i don't have to cover as much land. So even though the original route seems to be longer, it is actually the fastest, so I'm sticking with it.

Caracarn

2010-12-03 01:21:03 am

Finally got a couple more segments done. Segment 43 was a pain in the ass this time, as well as me being busy with other stuff, so that's why it took so long.

Segment 43 is killing the Behemoth, getting an Elixir to recover Firion's HP/MP, rescuing Hilda, and escaping the Coliseum. It took quite a while to get the luck to 2 hit the Behemoth without it killing Firion AND escaping all the encounters on B1, not to mention I screwed up unequipping/equipping the shields numerous times. Saved a few seconds from faster menuing than on the original run.

Segment 44 took less than 30 minutes, on the other hand, just have to travel from the Coliseum to Fynn. The boat trip was much smoother than the original run, which may have saved a couple seconds.

Caracarn

2010-12-12 04:39:20 am

Finally done with the Castle Fynn segments. These took so long to finish, but I saved more than a minute overall compared to the original run. Most of that time saved is from a better encounter pattern on B5 and saving before the 3rd encounter, adding it to the beginning of the next segment instead. That way I ended up with 3 enemies Pre-emptive strike on the 3rd encounter instead of 6 enemies; a pretty significant time difference.

Segment 45 - 2 encounters on Fynn 1F and 3F, then killing Gottos. He leaves Leila alive so I dont have to revive her at the end of the segment.

Segment 46 - Short segment with 1 encounter on B1, it is very difficult to get 2 good encounters in a row here.

Segment 47 - One more encounter on B1, then fleeing the rest until the Blood Sword chest on B4.

Segment 48 - Getting the Blood Sword, and running to B5

Segment 49 - Getting through 2 encounters on B5 and getting the White Mask. This could have been faster, but considering how long it took to get a good pattern, and knowing that I was going to save a lot of time overall, it was acceptable.

Segment 50 - This segment was easy in the original run, but it became much harder with the last B5 encounter at the start. Fortunately, I got an incredibly good encounter, being attacked only once and one-shotting all the Splinters, and then was able to flee the next two encounters in the sea and on the way to Mysidia. The shopping and White Mask in Mysidia went almost perfectly as well.

Time saved now is around 3 1/2 minutes, give or take.

Finally done with the Castle Fynn segments. These took so long to finish, but I saved more than a minute overall compared to the original run. Most of that time saved is from a better encounter pattern on B5 and saving before the 3rd encounter, adding it to the beginning of the next segment instead. That way I ended up with 3 enemies Pre-emptive strike on the 3rd encounter instead of 6 enemies; a pretty significant time difference.

Segment 45 - 2 encounters on Fynn 1F and 3F, then killing Gottos. He leaves Leila alive so I dont have to revive her at the end of the segment.

Segment 46 - Short segment with 1 encounter on B1, it is very difficult to get 2 good encounters in a row here.

Segment 47 - One more encounter on B1, then fleeing the rest until the Blood Sword chest on B4.

Segment 48 - Getting the Blood Sword, and running to B5

Segment 49 - Getting through 2 encounters on B5 and getting the White Mask. This could have been faster, but considering how long it took to get a good pattern, and knowing that I was going to save a lot of time overall, it was acceptable.

Segment 50 - This segment was easy in the original run, but it became much harder with the last B5 encounter at the start. Fortunately, I got an incredibly good encounter, being attacked only once and one-shotting all the Splinters, and then was able to flee the next two encounters in the sea and on the way to Mysidia. The shopping and White Mask in Mysidia went almost perfectly as well.

Time saved now is around 3 1/2 minutes, give or take.

Caracarn

2010-12-13 12:27:11 am

I went back and calculated the exact time saved, and it actually was almost exactly 3 1/2 minutes.

After the short and easy Segment 51 it is now 3 minutes 33 seconds saved.

Caracarn

2010-12-24 12:30:14 am

I went back and redid Segment 51, getting through Mysidian Cavern B1 before saving. This made B2-B4 on Segment 52 much easier to get through. B5 is by far the hardest floor, but it didn't take too long to get through it in Segment 53.

I skipped getting the Thief Gloves and Ninja Suit to save time, so hopefully having 20 less Agility will not be a huge problem in later segments. I am getting Gareth soon, so I think it will be ok.

Time saved now after the Mysidian Cavern is 4 minutes 1 second.

Caracarn

2010-12-30 11:58:10 pm

On Segment 54, I saved right before Gareth, instead of right after the cutscene, so I wouldnt have to go through the intestines before every attempt at Segment 55.

The Barrel Worm battle was pretty much perfect, but the menuing at the start could have been a couple seconds faster. And i tried to make it faster for many, many attempts and I could never get the boss battle to be good along with it, so I just stuck with the first saved attempt.

There was one more unavoidable encounter in the intenstines than there was on the original run, since the Mysidian Cave had one less, so I actually lost about 5 seconds over these two segments, compared to the original run, but that is not too bad.

Time saved now is about 3 minutes 56 seconds at Mysidian Tower

Eisenefaust

Edit history:

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-12 10:27:26 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-12 10:01:56 pm

Eisenefaust: 2011-01-12 10:01:36 pm

2011-01-12 09:48:03 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

Caracarn, I'm very interested in your run. I'm thinking of making a run on the GBA version as my first submitted run to SDA. I think I will try to have it be low segment rather than fully optimized. Eventually maybe even building up to a SS. But I want to play through the GBA version again using your youtube videos as a guide for optimal path before I attempt any speedrun. You have done a great job and I look forward to watching the even more optimized run that is currently underway. Keep the hope alive!

I did have one question for you though. Can you help me to better understand the step count : enemy encounter mechanic. Is it like every 8 steps or something? From what I was reading in this thread it almost seemed like saving reset the move counter. I was reading something on the JP/GameFAQs pages and it seems that there is a nice trick that uses cure to reset the enemy encounter randomizer or something.
here is a link to the guide: http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563414-final-fantasy-ii/faqs/3013
[QUOTE]
[THE TRICKS]
...
b. ...Walk, and after every step, save the game. Keep doing this until you get attacked. Load the save game RIGHT before you get attacked. Now, go to the Status Screen and cast the Cure spell on one of your party members. Exit the Status Screen, save your game again, then continue walking, until you get attacked again.
[END QUOTE]

I am aware that the GBA saves the encounter rate in between states, but I'm hopeful that I may be able to utilize the cure trick. if I can figure out the number of steps it takes that would be an amazing time saver for a SS run.

[EDIT] NVM, I just tested out the cure trick on my GBA copy and it didn't work for me. It may still work on the PSX version for your next set of segments you record. I don't think it will have much impact on the game timer with the extra menu selections but may end up saving you considerable time in the real world since you wouldn't have to flee anymore and you can avoid those encounters that you can't flee from as well if it works.

Caracarn, I'm very interested in your run. I'm thinking of making a run on the GBA version as my first submitted run to SDA. I think I will try to have it be low segment rather than fully optimized. Eventually maybe even building up to a SS. But I want to play through the GBA version again using your youtube videos as a guide for optimal path before I attempt any speedrun. You have done a great job and I look forward to watching the even more optimized run that is currently underway. Keep the hope alive!

I did have one question for you though. Can you help me to better understand the step count : enemy encounter mechanic. Is it like every 8 steps or something? From what I was reading in this thread it almost seemed like saving reset the move counter. I was reading something on the JP/GameFAQs pages and it seems that there is a nice trick that uses cure to reset the enemy encounter randomizer or something.
here is a link to the guide: http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563414-final-fantasy-ii/faqs/3013
[QUOTE]
[THE TRICKS]
...
b. ...Walk, and after every step, save the game. Keep doing this until you get attacked.  Load the save game RIGHT before you get attacked. Now, go to the Status Screen and cast the Cure spell on one of your party members. Exit the Status Screen, save your game again, then continue walking, until you get attacked again.
[END QUOTE]

I am aware that the GBA saves the encounter rate in between states, but I'm hopeful that I may be able to utilize the cure trick. if I can figure out the number of steps it takes that would be an amazing time saver for a SS run.

[EDIT] NVM, I just tested out the cure trick on my GBA copy and it didn't work for me. It may still work on the PSX version for your next set of segments you record. I don't think it will have much impact on the game timer with the extra menu selections but may end up saving you considerable time in the real world since you wouldn't have to flee anymore and you can avoid those encounters that you can't flee from as well if it works.

Caracarn

2011-01-12 11:50:55 pm

I'm not sure how it works on either the NES or GBA versions, but as far as I know, there is no way to completely avoid encounters using the Cure trick on the PS version. I think the only thing it does is change the random number pattern so you will get a different encounter than you would have without casting Cure. The weird thing about encounters in this game is that they are not totally random. A random number pattern is generated when you load the game, and this will pre-determine what encounters you get, the order of attacks, etc. As long as you do everything the same, you can get the exact same pattern several times while attempting a segment. In many difficult segments I actually wrote down every pattern I got, so I could predict what I was going to run into if I saw the same pattern again.

As far as the step count goes, saving does not prevent you from getting encounters, unlike FF1. If you save one step before an encounter, you will still get that encounter on the next step after reloading.

I'm really not sure if this applies to the GBA version or not, since I haven't played it. I'm considering the idea of a single segment run after I re-finish the segmented run, but it will be pretty hard to do. There is a sub 4 hour real-time attack on the NES version, but that uses saves I believe. Check out the links that Carcinogen posted earlier on this page and use google translate. It's kind of hard to decipher, but I did get some good information out of it.

Another thing about the Cure trick. It would not really be feasible in my run, because I don't have enough MP to keep using it, not to mention the fact that I never learn Cure anyway. I think it might work with potions too, but I don't go out of my way to get those either. I will definitely have to play around with some different ideas for a single segment run though; whether it is even possible to do on the PS version in a decent amount of time I am not sure right now.

I'm not sure how it works on either the NES or GBA versions, but as far as I know, there is no way to completely avoid encounters using the Cure trick on the PS version.  I think the only thing it does is change the  random number pattern so you will get a different encounter than you would have without casting Cure.  The weird thing about encounters in this game is that they are not totally random. A random number pattern is generated when you load the game, and this will pre-determine what encounters you get, the order of attacks, etc.  As long as you do everything the same, you can get the exact same pattern several times while attempting a segment.  In many difficult segments I actually wrote down every pattern I got, so I could predict what I was going to run into if I saw the same pattern again.

As far as the step count goes, saving does not prevent you from getting encounters, unlike FF1. If you save one step before an encounter, you will still get that encounter on the next step after reloading.

I'm really not sure if this applies to the GBA version or not, since I haven't played it.  I'm considering the idea of a single segment run after I re-finish the segmented run, but it will be pretty hard to do. There is a sub 4 hour real-time attack on the NES version, but that uses saves I believe.  Check out the links that Carcinogen posted earlier on this page and use google translate. It's kind of hard to decipher, but I did get some good information out of it.

Another thing about the Cure trick. It would not really be feasible in my run, because I don't have enough MP to keep using it, not to mention the fact that I never learn Cure anyway. I think it might work with potions too, but I don't go out of my way to get those either. I will definitely have to play around with some different ideas for a single segment run though; whether it is even possible to do on the PS version in a decent amount of time I am not sure right now.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-13 04:05:46 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

So I checked out some of the JP sites carcinogen posted, specifically: http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/gba/difference.htm
Popping it into the translate showed me a few things that I thought was interesting.
On the GBA version, cure levels faster than other spells. (HOORAY!) It also had a leveling chart for magic and weapons. It shows the exact number needed to level up cure, which is awesome since I will be relying heavily on that spell for my SS playthrough.
I was also sad to discover that although it does take less times to cast to level up a magic/ weapon it is random :(.
I filled up lvl 3 dagger meter by the 24th use but was unable to get it to level up until the 36th use.
I filled up lvl 2 sword meter by the 9th use but was unable to get it to level up until the 10th use. (Actually under the estimate given by the JP site)
I filled up lvl 3 axe meter by the 21st use but was unable to get it to level up even after the 34th use.

Cure however was EASY! I just tested by having someone learn it from a book and got them Cure levels exactly when the JP site listed it. Cure 2 after 10 uses and Cure 3 after another 13.

I was also able to level up even if all the enemies escaped (ALSO HOORAY!)

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure.
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.

This would give me some more chances on each extra attack of Firion to get a level and would boost everyone's HP, Guy and Maria's mp and cure as well.
I'm thinking Firion should use a shield in the offhand, Guy use axe and shield, and Maria use a sword and shield.

This would give everyone decent HP, evasion, and get guy and maria set up as back up mages. Later I would focus on maria getting the magic spells leveled up and would get some cure levels on Firion.

What do you think about this approach?

It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?

So I checked out some of the JP sites carcinogen posted, specifically: http://surume5.han-be.com/Home/FF2/gba/difference.htm
Popping it into the translate showed me a few things that I thought was interesting.
On the GBA version, cure levels faster than other spells. (HOORAY!) It also had a leveling chart for magic and weapons. It shows the exact number needed to level up cure, which is awesome since I will be relying heavily on that spell for my SS playthrough.
I was also sad to discover that although it does take less times to cast to level up a magic/ weapon it is random :(. 
I filled up lvl 3 dagger meter by the 24th use but was unable to get it to level up until the 36th use. 
I filled up lvl 2 sword meter by the 9th use but was unable to get it to level up until the 10th use. (Actually under the estimate given by the JP site)
I filled up lvl 3 axe meter by the 21st use but was unable to get it to level up even after the 34th use.

Cure however was EASY! I just tested by having someone learn it from a book and got them Cure levels exactly when the JP site listed it. Cure 2 after 10 uses and Cure 3 after another 13.

I was also able to level up even if all the enemies escaped (ALSO HOORAY!)

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure. 
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy 
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.

This would give me some more chances on each extra attack of Firion to get a level and would boost everyone's HP, Guy and Maria's mp and cure as well.
I'm thinking Firion should use a shield in the offhand, Guy use axe and shield, and Maria use a sword and shield.

This would give everyone decent HP, evasion, and get guy and maria set up as back up mages. Later I would focus on maria getting the magic spells leveled up and would get some cure levels on Firion.

What do you think about this approach?

It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?

Caracarn

2011-01-13 05:00:41 pm

does the cancel trick work on the GBA version? If you select an action, then cancel it, then select it again, and keep repeating that over and over, you can level up a weapon or spell regardless of the enemy level. Although I actually can't say that for certain for spells, since I don't level up any spells in the segmented run.

For the weapons though, the first time you select attack it gives 11 points, then every other time gives 1 point, so the first encounter you need to attack 90 times to level it up. Then when the weapon level is at 2, the first attack gives nothing, the 2nd attack gives 11, and the rest give 1 each, so you need to attack 91 times, and so on till max level.

I hope this makes sense, this game's mechanics are kind of weird to explain.

Aftermath

2011-01-13 06:11:10 pm

Quits halfway

Lenophis says:

Quote:

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure.
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.

Equip two shields on your characters, and have them attack whoever/whatever until you get enough experience to level up the shield. You will do no damage, so levels will rise very very quickly. You can conceivably get level 16 shields in a matter of 20 minutes, give or take.

Quote:

It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?

The ability to level magic goes the same as it does with weapons. If monsters can survive your attacks, you can keep using them. If monsters are dying too quickly, you'll probably have to use the spells on yourself, or spread them out so they do less damage.

Quote:

does the cancel trick work on the GBA version?

No, it does not. Pretty sure that was fixed in the WSC version.

Lenophis says:

[quote]I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure.
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.[/quote]
Equip two shields on your characters, and have them attack whoever/whatever until you get enough experience to level up the shield. You will do no damage, so levels will rise very very quickly. You can conceivably get level 16 shields in a matter of 20 minutes, give or take.

[quote]It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?[/quote]
The ability to level magic goes the same as it does with weapons. If monsters can survive your attacks, you can keep using them. If monsters are dying too quickly, you'll probably have to use the spells on yourself, or spread them out so they do less damage.

[quote]does the cancel trick work on the GBA version?[/quote]
No, it does not. Pretty sure that was fixed in the WSC version.

Idkbutlike2

2011-01-13 06:11:41 pm

Lenophis requested that I post this, so here goes:

Quote:

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure.
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.

Equip two shields on your characters, and have them attack whoever/whatever until you get enough experience to level up the shield. You will do no damage, so levels will rise very very quickly. You can conceivably get level 16 shields in a matter of 20 minutes, give or take.

Quote:

It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?

The ability to level magic goes the same as it does with weapons. If monsters can survive your attacks, you can keep using them. If monsters are dying too quickly, you'll probably have to use the spells on yourself, or spread them out so they do less damage.

Quote:

does the cancel trick work on the GBA version?

No, it does not. Pretty sure that was fixed in the WSC version.

Lenophis requested that I post this, so here goes:

[quote]I'm trying to figure out the best way to get lvl 10 barehanded and lvl 10 shield on Firion on the GBA version. I'm thinking about having the battle go something like this:
Turn 1 - Firion and Guy beat up themselves while Maria casts aoe Cure.
Turn 2 - Firion and Maria beat up themselves while Guy casts aoe Cure.
Repeat until Cure would level up on both Maria and Guy
End the battle
Go to town and pay for an Inn or use an ether.
Repeat 10 times.[/quote]
Equip two shields on your characters, and have them attack whoever/whatever until you get enough experience to level up the shield. You will do no damage, so levels will rise very very quickly. You can conceivably get level 16 shields in a matter of 20 minutes, give or take.

[quote]It also seems that certain level of enemies will not improve a spell level past a certain point. Do you have any idea when this is so I don't waste time doing useless levels?[/quote]
The ability to level magic goes the same as it does with weapons. If monsters can survive your attacks, you can keep using them. If monsters are dying too quickly, you'll probably have to use the spells on yourself, or spread them out so they do less damage.

[quote]does the cancel trick work on the GBA version?[/quote]
No, it does not. Pretty sure that was fixed in the WSC version.

Eisenefaust

2011-01-13 06:17:04 pm

SS Any% FF2 GBA

The cancel trick doesn't work on the GBA version. But I should be able to use the fact that on level number of attack (1st attack at level 1, 15th attack at level 15) gives more points.
In fact, this may explain why people have the impression that you don't level up on weak monsters. What if what really happens is you need to hit the weapon level number of times in order to overcome the level barrier? e.g. you need to actually attack twice in a fight to level up a level 2 weapon and similarly you need to attack 15 times minimum to level up a level 15 weapon.

It's probably not true, but the JP site does offer this table:
For reference, indicates the minimum number of actions to increase the degree of skill in combat with the enemy in a fight one time level. You can see that simple skill rises. In one battle, if you can not raise the skill level is broken up into two fighting.
Level Master degree Magic Weapons
L1 20 9 10
L2 25 12 16
L3 25 13 17
L4 30 16 23
L5 35 19 29
L6 40 22 35
L7 45 25 41
L8 50 28 47
L9 60 33 58
L10 70 39 69
L11 80 44 80
L12 90 50 91
L13 100 30×2 52×2
L14 100 31×2 53×2
L15 100 31×2 54×2
L16 (100) - - - -

I really have no idea what "Master Degree" means. I think it may mean what it takes in the original version but I'm not sure. It had a table for Cure we could use it to verify if what I think master degree means is accurate:
Level Views Master degree
L1 10 20
L2 13 25
L3 13 25
L4 15 30

The first couple of entries' "Views" is accurate for leveling up Cure outside of combat on the world map. Could you or someone else verify that it takes 20 casts of level 1 Cure on the world map to level up Cure to Cure 2 and 25 casts of level 2 Cure to get Cure 3.

The cancel trick doesn't work on the GBA version. But I should be able to use the fact that on level number of attack (1st attack at level 1, 15th attack at level 15) gives more points.
In fact, this may explain why people have the impression that you don't level up on weak monsters. What if what really happens is you need to hit the weapon level number of times in order to overcome the level barrier? e.g. you need to actually attack twice in a fight to level up a level 2 weapon and similarly you need to attack 15 times minimum to level up a level 15 weapon.

It's probably not true, but the JP site does offer this table:
For reference, indicates the minimum number of actions to increase the degree of skill in combat with the enemy in a fight one time level. You can see that simple skill rises. In one battle, if you can not raise the skill level is broken up into two fighting.
Level   Master degree   Magic   Weapons
L1      20                       9        10
L2      25                      12       16
L3      25                      13       17
L4      30                      16       23
L5      35                      19       29
L6      40                      22       35
L7      45                      25       41
L8      50                      28       47
L9      60                      33       58
L10     70                     39       69
L11     80                     44       80
L12     90                     50       91
L13     100                 30×2    52×2
L14     100                 31×2    53×2
L15     100                 31×2    54×2
L16     (100)                 - -       - -

I really have no idea what "Master Degree" means. I think it may mean what it takes in the original version but I'm not sure. It had a table for Cure we could use it to verify if what I think master degree means is accurate:
Level 	Views 	Master degree
L1     	10     	20
L2     	13     	25
L3     	13     	25
L4     	15     	30

The first couple of entries' "Views" is accurate for leveling up Cure outside of combat on the world map. Could you or someone else verify that it takes 20 casts of level 1 Cure on the world map to level up Cure to Cure 2 and 25 casts of level 2 Cure to get Cure 3.