Vectorman 1 and 2 - May 21st, 2010

2010-05-21 09:25:55 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Pages: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Vectorman.html and http://speeddemosarchive.com/Vectorman2.html

PAL runs from an exceptional Englishman

Verifier Responses

Quote:

Verifier: oh i tihnk i did download it
Verifier: and just didn't watch it
Verifier: lol
Verifier: oh no i did watch it
Verifier: both were super solid
Verifier: and good improvements
Verifier: not really much else to say about them

Quote:

Vectorman 1

Damn. Watching this run, makes me wanna play this game. I remember how sweet this game was back when. But this runner knows this game extremely well. And the runner did a great job overall. Knocking off nearly 4 min off the current run is great.

This is me being just noticing things. Could you have made the jumps at 2:31 and landed on the plat form if the jump was made at the edge of the original platform? At 2:55, would just blasting through the mines be faster rather than jump over them? I am unsure if it is doable or if it would make a huge difference or not, but when using the boosts from your feet to damage bosses, could you shoot down a few times while going up cause more damage and still not lose any speed coming back down? And I also feel that the runner were a lil bit lazy on Day 15 because I believe it would be possible (but rather tough and prolly why the runner did not do it) to drop down from platform to platform instead of waiting on the elevator to go down. And throughout the run, the second jump does give a speed boost that the runner does not use all that much after Day 6. Also cliff jumps could help out a bit as well instead of just walking off them.

Over all I believe this a a great run. I am impressed. Grats to the runner. Smiley

Audio and Video was good. Accept

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Vectorman 2

Audio and video is good.

I'm loving the scene 4 kill and 15 start. To bad Slimer from Ghost Busters has to die in this game...

This runner knows this game rather well. I believe this run will stand for a long time. I see some room for improvement but all that is listed in the notes along with the run.

Great run. Accept

Vectorman 1

Quote:

The video and audio are good. Better than the current run. I couldn't spot anything strange, so it appears to be a legit run.

The runner starts out by giving credits and stuff in the comments. He seems to be certain that the run will be accepted. Cocky. I'm actually on the fence here. It's true that the run is faster than the current sda run. However, it didn't take me long searching the internet to find a run that was slightly faster than the submitted run. It's done by some guy going under the acronym "TAS". I wish he would submit his run instead... Nah, just kidding. This run is absolutely suberb. It's an improvement over the current run in basically every aspect and is minutes faster (even though I'm not completely sure if you can just compare the in-game timer between ntsc and pal like that).

I recommend this run to be accepted (well, in this case it's not only a recommendation, it's a strict order) and also that it obsoletes the ntsc-run despite being in another category. I hope we will see more runs from the runner in the future. (being more of a Nintendo guy myself, I would be ravished if he could grace the snes with some of his skills as well)

Vectorman 2

Quote:

(Fyi, I verified Vectorman 2 after Vectorman 1)

The video and audio are good. The run appears to be legit.

As the Vectorman 1 run, this one is a massive improvement over the existing run on the site. The improvement comes from better routes, but to some extent also from better execution. I'd say that the run for the first game of the series was a notch preciser, but this is also very good.

My recommendation is to accept this run. Bravo to the runner for two nice runs !

Decision: Accept

Reason: They're both improvements.

Thread title:

Game Pages: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Vectorman.html and http://speeddemosarchive.com/Vectorman2.html

PAL runs from an exceptional Englishman

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]Verifier: oh i tihnk i did download it
Verifier: and just didn't watch it
Verifier: lol
Verifier: oh no i did watch it
Verifier: both were super solid
Verifier: and good improvements
Verifier: not really much else to say about them[/quote]

[quote]Vectorman 1

Damn. Watching this run, makes me wanna play this game. I remember how sweet this game was back when. But this runner knows this game extremely well. And the runner did a great job overall. Knocking off nearly 4 min off the current run is great.

This is me being just noticing things. Could you have made the jumps at 2:31 and landed on the plat form if the jump was made at the edge of the original platform? At 2:55, would just blasting through the mines be faster rather than jump over them? I am unsure if it is doable or if it would make a huge difference or not, but when using the boosts from your feet to damage bosses, could you shoot down a few times while going up cause more damage and still not lose any speed coming back down? And I also feel that the runner were a lil bit lazy on Day 15 because I believe it would be possible (but rather tough and prolly why the runner did not do it) to drop down from platform to platform instead of waiting on the elevator to go down. And throughout the run, the second jump does give a speed boost that the runner does not use all that much after Day 6. Also cliff jumps could help out a bit as well instead of just walking off them.

Over all I believe this a a great run. I am impressed. Grats to the runner. :)

Audio and Video was good. Accept

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Vectorman 2

Audio and video is good.

I'm loving the scene 4 kill and 15 start. To bad Slimer from Ghost Busters has to die in this game...

This runner knows this game rather well. I believe this run will stand for a long time. I see some room for improvement but all that is listed in the notes along with the run.

Great run. Accept
[/quote]

Vectorman 1

[quote]The video and audio are good. Better than the current run. I couldn't spot anything strange, so it appears to be a legit run.

The runner starts out by giving credits and stuff in the comments. He seems to be certain that the run will be accepted. Cocky. I'm actually on the fence here. It's true that the run is faster than the current sda run. However, it didn't take me long searching the internet to find a run that was slightly faster than the submitted run. It's done by some guy going under the acronym "TAS". I wish he would submit his run instead... Nah, just kidding. This run is absolutely suberb. It's an improvement over the current run in basically every aspect and is minutes faster (even though I'm not completely sure if you can just compare the in-game timer between ntsc and pal like that).

I recommend this run to be accepted (well, in this case it's not only a recommendation, it's a strict order) and also that it obsoletes the ntsc-run despite being in another category. I hope we will see more runs from the runner in the future. (being more of a Nintendo guy myself, I would be ravished if he could grace the snes with some of his skills as well)[/quote]

Vectorman 2

[quote](Fyi, I verified Vectorman 2 after Vectorman 1)

The video and audio are good. The run appears to be legit.

As the Vectorman 1 run, this one is a massive improvement over the existing run on the site. The improvement comes from better routes, but to some extent also from better execution. I'd say that the run for the first game of the series was a notch preciser, but this is also very good.

My recommendation is to accept this run. Bravo to the runner for two nice runs ![/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: They're both improvements.

mike89

2010-05-21 09:57:36 pm

SEGA Junkie

Cheers guys!

[quote author=Verifier 2]This is me being just noticing things. Could you have made the jumps at 2:31 and landed on the plat form if the jump was made at the edge of the original platform? At 2:55, would just blasting through the mines be faster rather than jump over them? I am unsure if it is doable or if it would make a huge difference or not, but when using the boosts from your feet to damage bosses, could you shoot down a few times while going up cause more damage and still not lose any speed coming back down? And I also feel that the runner were a lil bit lazy on Day 15 because I believe it would be possible (but rather tough and prolly why the runner did not do it) to drop down from platform to platform instead of waiting on the elevator to go down. And throughout the run, the second jump does give a speed boost that the runner does not use all that much after Day 6. Also cliff jumps could help out a bit as well instead of just walking off them.[/quote]

Mike already forwarded these comments to me and I did my best to respond to them, but for all to see:

2:31: You actually can make it onto the platform, the reason I don't is that if you don't land on the very left edge of the platform at practically zero speed the turret just knocks you off it anyway. The speed management required for it is too difficult and there's nowhere near enough reward for pulling it off.

2:55: Depending on where I was and/or just what came into my head at the time I tried both jumping over and shooting through those mines. I didn't notice any real difference in the times either way. I'd also got into the habit of jumping over them because I had been practicing on Hard just before getting this run out, and the mines take six hits there which shifts the balance in favour of jumping.

Bosses: Shooting down while boosting up is just as hard as it sounds, plus boosting is that much more effective that it's not worth your trouble. The main problem is that if you are right over the top of it you'll just take a hit when you come to ground, and if you shoot on an angle you're going to drift towards it as well. Also shots carry some of your vertical velocity with them, so if you shoot down a handful of frames after boosting your shot can actually go upwards.

Day 15: I actually did do this at least once. The first time you jump on the elevators, where it's the largest drop between the horizontal conveyor belts, I drop off there and get on a lower platform. I think I skipped three platforms there. On any of the others I don't think it skips any more than one, and I run a significant risk of missing the elevator entirely and losing time.

Double jumping: Yes, this is definitely the fastest form of movement (you are at a capped speed on the ground and can accelerate past that in the air, specifically) and there's a couple of places I should have used it and didn't (I think there's a particularly obvious one in Day 8). For the most part though, the latter levels are generally just in more confined spaces, and in the case of Days 14 and 15, there's a lot of vertical motion as well as horizontal. (This is systemic among this era of platformers, heh.)

[quote author=Verifier 3]It's an improvement over the current run in basically every aspect and is minutes faster (even though I'm not completely sure if you can just compare the in-game timer between ntsc and pal like that).[/quote]

I'm actually not 100% sure about this myself, since there seemed to be some interesting timing anomalies when I did levels on my system and compared them to times I got on emulator (since theoretically I should have the same skill as myself :P). I learned some stuff later regarding lag not actually slowing down the in-game timer which might have accounted for some of it though, as well as button mashing just plain being faster on PAL (for the dedicated boss levels). Even if it's not perfect though, it's certainly close enough, and I'd like to think it's a visibly better speedrun than the 14:16.

This one's a bit off topic, but...

[quote author=Verifier 3](being more of a Nintendo guy myself, I would be ravished if he could grace the snes with some of his skills as well)[/quote]

I get this a lot, especially after Classic Games Done Quick where I made the terrible mistake of admitting that I had never actually held a SNES controller! Long story short, I grew up with a MegaDrive and loved it to bits. I have gone and discovered some of the more awesome SNES games for myself though (no, that doesn't include DKC3...), but the SNES library is generally covered pretty well by people with much more experience than me.

BTW I might have left stuff out of my responses because I've just recently done an audio commentary and it answers some of the questions here, so I feel like I've answered some stuff already and I'd just be repeating myself. Oh well. I hope you guys enjoy that as well, when it's ready of course!

Cheers guys!

[quote author=Verifier 2]This is me being just noticing things. Could you have made the jumps at 2:31 and landed on the plat form if the jump was made at the edge of the original platform? At 2:55, would just blasting through the mines be faster rather than jump over them? I am unsure if it is doable or if it would make a huge difference or not, but when using the boosts from your feet to damage bosses, could you shoot down a few times while going up cause more damage and still not lose any speed coming back down? And I also feel that the runner were a lil bit lazy on Day 15 because I believe it would be possible (but rather tough and prolly why the runner did not do it) to drop down from platform to platform instead of waiting on the elevator to go down. And throughout the run, the second jump does give a speed boost that the runner does not use all that much after Day 6. Also cliff jumps could help out a bit as well instead of just walking off them.[/quote]

Mike already forwarded these comments to me and I did my best to respond to them, but for all to see:

2:31: You actually can make it onto the platform, the reason I don't is that if you don't land on the [i]very[/i] left edge of the platform at practically zero speed the turret just knocks you off it anyway. The speed management required for it is too difficult and there's nowhere near enough reward for pulling it off.

2:55: Depending on where I was and/or just what came into my head at the time I tried both jumping over and shooting through those mines. I didn't notice any real difference in the times either way. I'd also got into the habit of jumping over them because I had been practicing on Hard just before getting this run out, and the mines take six hits there which shifts the balance in favour of jumping.

Bosses: Shooting down while boosting up is just as hard as it sounds, plus boosting is that much more effective that it's not worth your trouble. The main problem is that if you are right over the top of it you'll just take a hit when you come to ground, and if you shoot on an angle you're going to drift towards it as well. Also shots carry some of your vertical velocity with them, so if you shoot down a handful of frames after boosting your shot can actually go [i]upwards[/i].

Day 15: I actually did do this at least once. The first time you jump on the elevators, where it's the largest drop between the horizontal conveyor belts, I drop off there and get on a lower platform. I think I skipped three platforms there. On any of the others I don't think it skips any more than one, and I run a significant risk of missing the elevator entirely and losing time.

Double jumping: Yes, this is definitely the fastest form of movement (you are at a capped speed on the ground and can accelerate past that in the air, specifically) and there's a couple of places I should have used it and didn't (I think there's a particularly obvious one in Day 8). For the most part though, the latter levels are generally just in more confined spaces, and in the case of Days 14 and 15, there's a lot of vertical motion as well as horizontal. (This is systemic among this era of platformers, heh.)

[quote author=Verifier 3]It's an improvement over the current run in basically every aspect and is minutes faster (even though I'm not completely sure if you can just compare the in-game timer between ntsc and pal like that).[/quote]

I'm actually not 100% sure about this myself, since there seemed to be some interesting timing anomalies when I did levels on my system and compared them to times I got on emulator (since theoretically I should have the same skill as myself :P). I learned some stuff later regarding lag not actually slowing down the in-game timer which might have accounted for some of it though, as well as button mashing just plain being faster on PAL (for the dedicated boss levels). Even if it's not perfect though, it's certainly close enough, and I'd like to think it's a visibly better speedrun than the 14:16.

This one's a bit off topic, but...

[quote author=Verifier 3](being more of a Nintendo guy myself, I would be ravished if he could grace the snes with some of his skills as well)[/quote]

I get this a lot, especially after Classic Games Done Quick where I made the terrible mistake of admitting that I had never actually held a SNES controller! Long story short, I grew up with a MegaDrive and loved it to bits. I have gone and discovered some of the more awesome SNES games for myself though (no, that doesn't include DKC3...), but the SNES library is generally covered pretty well by people with much more experience than me.

BTW I might have left stuff out of my responses because I've just recently done an audio commentary and it answers some of the questions here, so I feel like I've answered some stuff already and I'd just be repeating myself. Oh well. I hope you guys enjoy that as well, when it's ready of course!