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MrGrunz is a guay
I'm working on an OoT run that will take about 3 hours, so normally I would record with my DVD recorder (Magnavox MWR 10D6) at SP quality (2 hours) and switch discs, but I currently only have 1 working disc.  So I've just been recording practice runs at the lowest quality setting until getting new discs, but after almost getting a possibly submittable practice run and looking at the quality, it actually still looks pretty good, to me at least, though I'm not an expert on quality.  Here's a sample of the 2nd lowest quality setting (EP 4 hours) which can still record the full run in 1 recording.  Of course if I get new DVDs soon I would go back to recording higher quality, but I'm just wondering if this could possibly be acceptable if I get a good run before I can get new DVDs.

OoT Virtual console, NTSC, encoded with anri

LQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/UFhzK3BFQXA5NVZjR0E9PQ
MQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/UFhzK3BOQ1JoMld4dnc9PQ
HQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/UFhzK3BNTkxOMUJjR0E9PQ
Thread title:  
I see no reason why it wouldn't be acceptable Cheesy looks good
Nate, can you remind me why oot is set to D4 F1 2D on the df page? Does D4 F3 3D not work on anri 3.2?
torch slug since 2006
I've seen better HQ but yeah that looks great for being "lowest quality setting"!
Edit history:
nate: 2011-04-05 06:15:18 pm
it's because it barely ever reaches f3. if you encode at f3 then you end up with insane jerking. looks terrible.
Even with selecteven+decimate?
what happens if it's actually f4 for a while? seems like there's no way to avoid jerking without going to vfr ...
Do you happen to have a source file that has this? If we ever go vfr, that would be a good test clip.
Edit history:
ballofsnow: 2011-04-24 12:06:51 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-24 12:03:03 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-24 12:01:58 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 06:07:13 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 06:06:11 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 06:05:41 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 06:05:17 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 05:57:50 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 05:57:22 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 05:56:42 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-04-09 05:55:37 pm
vfr is pretty cool, and it seems a lot easier to do now. Run two null video passes with the dedup filter through vdub, then run it through x264 with the timecode file produced by dedup. All scriptable. Attached is an example. Ignore the file sizes, the x264 settings are different.

General
Complete name                    : vfr\LaMulana_1024x768_60fps_cfr.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media
Codec ID                         : isom
File size                        : 5.28 MiB
Duration                         : 41s 215ms
Overall bit rate                 : 1 075 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-04-08 10:03:05
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-04-08 10:03:05

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 41s 133ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 743 Kbps
Nominal bit rate                 : 5 000 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 1 879 Kbps
Width                            : 1 024 pixels
Height                           : 768 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 60.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.016
Stream size                      : 3.64 MiB (69%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 79 r1352 d487de4
Encoding settings                : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / wpredp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=5000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=19 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=24000 / vbv_bufsize=24000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-04-08 10:02:24
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-04-08 10:03:05

General
Complete name                    : vfr\LaMulana_1024x768_20-60fps_vfr.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : JVT
Codec ID                         : avc1
File size                        : 1.93 MiB
Duration                         : 41s 133ms
Overall bit rate                 : 394 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-04-09 23:37:59
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-04-09 23:37:59

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : High@L3.2
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 41s 133ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 390 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 919 Kbps
Width                            : 1 024 pixels
Height                           : 768 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate mode                  : Variable
Frame rate                       : 31.994 fps
Minimum frame rate               : 20.000 fps
Maximum frame rate               : 60.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.015
Stream size                      : 1.91 MiB (99%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 114 r1924 08d04a4
Encoding settings                : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=23.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-04-09 23:37:59
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-04-09 23:38:15

Seems to work in youtube as well. The grey at the beginning is caused by some other x264 setting, ignore it.



sorry, missed this until now. cool. unfortunately i don't have runs of either of the n64 zeldas on the project drive atm. i guess if someone sees this they could record some raw footage of one of those games and post it.
Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart
i got some OoT RAW footage i had lying around

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NIUNMNEI
Edit history:
ZFG: 2011-09-02 12:52:26 am
ZFG: 2011-09-02 12:52:00 am
MrGrunz is a guay
Bumping this for a few reasons.  First, I never actually got an answer about recording in EP.  I did get new DVDs so I could record in SP, but it really just seems like extra work because I still think EP looks almost as good, and I'd rather not have to worry about switching discs. 

Second, about quality, I was told that d1, f1, 3d is better for encoding than d4, f1, 2d, and I tried it and it definitely seems a bit better than d4 2d (and I know you guys don't care about youtube, but it also lets me upload in 480p instead of 240p with d4 which is nice).  Is there another reason why I shouldn't use d1 3d, or should I start encoding in that now?

For reference, here are quality tests for SP and EP encoded with d1 3d.  If needed I can upload them encoded in d4 as well.

SP LQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25BMm05eFZFQlE9PQ
SP MQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25Pd0E4aVB2Wmc9PQ
SP HQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25Pd0FiV3hFQlE9PQ

EP LQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25LV3JiV3cwTVE9PQ
EP MQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25LV3JqV0JFQlE9PQ
EP HQ: https://www.yousendit.com/download/M0RwM25BTXY5bEJjR0E9PQ
i'm going to have to throw up my hands on this one. only thing i can tell you for sure is that encoding it at d1 is stupid (youtube is also stupid) because the game doesn't run at d1 so you're just wasting your time. people can just zoom to 2x and get the same effect.

the primary difference between the dvd recorder speeds other than bitrate is resolution. because analog video is interlaced, resolution can also affect framerate. sp is full resolution, lp is usually half width, full height (can still achieve full framerate), and ep is usually half width, half height (only d4 f2 possible). for encoding to d4 f2, ep is fine, because that is in fact what it is.

the question is how to encode the n64 zeldas, which don't have a consistent framerate, and the framerate is usually somewhere between f4 and f3. the problem is that if you encode at f3 then you get really bad jittering when there are duplicate frames (i.e. when the framerate happens to be lower than f3). but if you encode at f4 then maybe you throw away frames. there is also a similar problem with jittering when encoding at f2 (but not as noticeable). the best way to get around the problem is to encode at f1 (to approximate how it would have looked originally) which is impossible recording using ep since it is f2 to begin with. however then (encoding at f1) if you're not playing on an original n64 you introduce deflickering (the game still has d4 graphics but the video output has been anti-aliased to reduce flicker on analog tvs). de-deflickering is very cpu intensive and anri can't quite do it right so it looks like crap compared to f2 in that case.

to be honest, if you encode at d4 f2 3d from an ep source and don't see bad jittering then that will probably work and no one will complain. all three videos will be d4 f2 and will only differ in bitrate.

more: http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Glossary_of_terms
http://speeddemosarchive.com/kb/Anri-chan/Guide#Working_Definitions_.2F_Key_Terms