Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story

2010-01-06 11:13:18 pm

Thought a topic for this game should be brought up, it's fantastic speedrunning material.

Anyways, I've been messing around with this here and there, doing a practice run. I'm not very far in- 1:07 just before Bowser meets up with the Minions that have the banzai bill cannon. I assume a optimized time here would be about 1:02-1:03 segmented. I probably didn't have the best strategy for the Fire pipe bug, think I lost a good.. 45 seconds there. Got in 2 optional battles cause they were a pain in the ass to avoid. Yeah, 1:03 sounds very possible.

(EDIT: I also didn't grab the Fireflower special.. I'm wondering of it would be worth my time to grab it. Might be good for future battles...)

I have also tried this a little bit SS and I stopped just after the Fire Pipe Bug, I finished with that and the text afterwords just under an hour (0:59). I still need to play through a lot more of it for strategies... I'm not even sure on the estimate for the final time.

Also, I assume that this would be an appropriate game for an SDA run, it's pretty minimal on Touch screen action. Just the giant bowser battles, certain mini-games and bowser's specials.

Discuss Grin

P.S. Also, 100% definition discussion would be nice. I'm not so sure that the hidden ranks should be included, beings that you need to be level 40 to get them.. hmmmmm...

Thread title:

Thought a topic for this game should be brought up, it's fantastic speedrunning material.

Anyways, I've been messing around with this here and there, doing a practice run. I'm not very far in- 1:07 just before Bowser meets up with the Minions that have the banzai bill cannon. I assume a optimized time here would be about 1:02-1:03 segmented. I probably didn't have the best strategy for the Fire pipe bug, think I lost a good.. 45 seconds there. Got in 2 optional battles cause they were a pain in the ass to avoid. Yeah, 1:03 sounds very possible.

(EDIT: I also didn't grab the Fireflower special.. I'm wondering of it would be worth my time to grab it. Might be good for future battles...)

I have also tried this a little bit SS and I stopped just after the Fire Pipe Bug, I finished with that and the text afterwords just under an hour (0:59). I still need to play through a lot more of it for strategies... I'm not even sure on the estimate for the final time.

Also, I assume that this would be an appropriate game for an SDA run, it's pretty minimal on Touch screen action. Just the giant bowser battles, certain mini-games and bowser's specials.

Discuss   ;D

P.S. Also, 100% definition discussion would be nice. I'm not so sure that the hidden ranks should be included, beings that you need to be level 40 to get them.. hmmmmm...

DoubleThink

Edit history:

DoubleThink: 2010-01-09 11:56:44 pm

2010-01-07 02:00:49 am

There's a word for that

100% would be tricky to define for this game, and I'd have to know it better to give an opinion on that.

I'm nearly finished the game (saved just before the battle with Peach's castle), and as per usual I've been keeping half an eye out for speed-related stuff. I don't know about getting some of the optional abilities (I'm assuming that they're optional), because getting all 10 pieces is often slow, as are the attacks themselves, and some of the early ones in particular aren't THAT much stronger than a regular double-hit jump. For the Bros, I don't think there's anywhere that getting hit is beneficial for them, so a general strategy would just be Pow-raising gear and armour (e.g. the Fighter Wear early on). The best badge combo would be the Excellent Badge + the damage-boosting one, unless I've missed something somewhere, although that will cost a bit. As for Bowser... taking damage is what charges FURY I think, but with weaker armour + lower levels he might end up taking TOO much damage and slow down fights by healing too often. FURY Fangs (I think, speeds up FURY get) + auto-heal accessory, mebbe? It's incredibly potent if it can be gotten quickly, e.g. with it I was smacking Blizzard Midbus with the Magikoopa Troop special for about 700 damage a turn.

As for level-up boosts... Pow obviously gets top priority, but pumping the same stat repeatedly is a waste. SP will be equally as important, especially at low levels with 10 or so less points to work with. That 30% SP use reduction item might even play a part somewhere (I can't remember these names at the moment and I'm too lazy to check). Speed boosts will be useful if at any point they let a character go first, and Stache/Horn is the next-best thing to boost for damage increases. Lucky hits aren't exactly rare, especially on multi-hit attacks, and it may prove essential to save cash while shopping.

All in all I don't think a run will be that hard to PLAN so much as execute. There will be some luck involved too, especially with bosses through the early-mid game, when they have a lot of HP and only some attacks can be countered for good damage (Wisdurm no. II comes to mind). The minigames and such will also require precise execution, so there'll be no shortage of stuff to practice for.

Edit: IT'S CALLED FURY YOU DAMNED FOOL

100% would be tricky to define for this game, and I'd have to know it better to give an opinion on that.

I'm nearly finished the game (saved just before the battle with Peach's castle), and as per usual I've been keeping half an eye out for speed-related stuff. I don't know about getting some of the optional abilities (I'm assuming that they're optional), because getting all 10 pieces is often slow, as are the attacks themselves, and some of the early ones in particular aren't THAT much stronger than a regular double-hit jump. For the Bros, I don't think there's anywhere that getting hit is beneficial for them, so a general strategy would just be Pow-raising gear and armour (e.g. the Fighter Wear early on). The best badge combo would be the Excellent Badge + the damage-boosting one, unless I've missed something somewhere, although that will cost a bit. As for Bowser... taking damage is what charges FURY I think, but with weaker armour + lower levels he might end up taking TOO much damage and slow down fights by healing too often. FURY Fangs (I think, speeds up FURY get) + auto-heal accessory, mebbe? It's incredibly potent if it can be gotten quickly, e.g. with it I was smacking Blizzard Midbus with the Magikoopa Troop special for about 700 damage a turn.

As for level-up boosts... Pow obviously gets top priority, but pumping the same stat repeatedly is a waste. SP will be equally as important, especially at low levels with 10 or so less points to work with. That 30% SP use reduction item might even play a part somewhere (I can't remember these names at the moment and I'm too lazy to check). Speed boosts will be useful if at any point they let a character go first, and Stache/Horn is the next-best thing to boost for damage increases. Lucky hits aren't exactly rare, especially on multi-hit attacks, and it may prove essential to save cash while shopping.

All in all I don't think a run will be that hard to PLAN so much as execute. There will be some luck involved too, especially with bosses through the early-mid game, when they have a lot of HP and only some attacks can be countered for good damage (Wisdurm no. II comes to mind). The minigames and such will also require precise execution, so there'll be no shortage of stuff to practice for.

Edit: IT'S CALLED FURY YOU DAMNED FOOL

AniMeowzerz

2010-01-07 04:05:01 pm

WELP, guess the practice run's cancelled. I came home from class today to find that my dog chewed up my BIS cart. It's destroyed.

Though, I'm still willing to discuss stuff that I remember.
As far as 100% discussion, I am actually considering Rainbow and Final Boss ranks to be a part of it just because of the Gauntlet Trophies. That pretty much doesn't leave out anything. 100% IMO should be: Hidden Ranks, A Ranks on all Special mini-games (Which requires all Specials, which would be a part of it anyways), all Green Beans (only because they keep total of how many beans are in each area and which ones you have) and all Gauntlet Trophies. I think that's pretty much it... hmm.

LadyKrile

Edit history:

LadyKrile: 2010-02-01 12:19:16 am

2010-01-17 04:31:18 am

Power is definitely the priority for leveling up in any M&L game. I agree about also increasing SP (and using the Budget Charm for 30% reduction if it would prevent at least one mid-battle heal) and Stache/Horn. Not sure about Speed - if it's only one enemy attack at most per battle, is it worth putting levels into it? (At the low levels a speedrun will be at, the bosses will probably be attacking first anyway.) HP and Defense are not worth leveling at all in segmented runs, as every attack can be dodged. This stat advice also applies to equipment, by the way, though planning which equipment to use at the same time is also important.

This game does not automatically heal you after boss battles, meaning SP-restoring items are necessary. The game does have a huge number (around 18) of Star Candies (full HP/SP restore, but limited in quantity).

Excellent badge + Powerful Badge seems like a good idea to me. (If you need coins, picking up some equipment and selling it is an option.)

It may to be useful to use the EXP Socks (no-damage = EXP x1.3 for 1 bro) if you have a spare equipment slot, if an extra level or two would help (or if aiming for level 40).

I don't know about Fury. Bowser takes a lot of damage even at normal levels, and I found it to rarely activate for me.

I'm assuming it's fastest to fight no battles other than storyline ones?

Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):

Green Shell (automatic) - does more damage than a jump, but takes a long time to execute. May be useful against bosses if the boss's turns take a long time. Also good for getting lucky hits.

Fire Flower (water area in Bowser) - I personally found this to be basically useless unless you need multi-target damage that is about the same as a no-action-command jump. It appears to do less damage than Green Shell to a single target. Also, the attack parts are very spread out.

Jump Helmet (Flab Zone) - A powerful single-target attack that also takes less time than most special attacks. Also adds a good amount to the badge meter. I would say pick this up in a speedrun, and use it often. (Also, this is the best attack to use after a power boost, as the badge only boosts the first hit of a special attack.) One downside of that it only hits once is that it's less likely to critical (though that could be manipulated with segmenting).

Yoo Who Cannon (automatic with blue shell) - This attack does not seem to be powerful enough to be worth using against bosses, and 7 SP is pretty expensive as well. Good multi-target attack against normal enemies if you ever need to fight them between this point and Mighty Meteor, though I don't think you do.

Super Bouncer (Energy Hold = lights on/off area in Bowser) - I was never very good at this attack, so I'm not sure if it would be useful. It does take pretty long to use, though.

Spin Pipe (solve one Kuzzle puzzle) - The minigame probably isn't worth the time for an attack that has no real advantage over the other attacks.

Mightly Meteor (automatic with Mario-inflate ability) - This attack is pretty fast and can reduce enemy power (not that reducing power is useful in a speedrun). It does pretty good damage as well, especially for 8 SP. Though only 5 hits on random targets can be a problem for bosses like Dark Star.

Snack Basket (required before Chakron's Star Cure) - I don't think this attack's useful at all on bosses, and there aren't really any required multiple-enemy fights after this point as far as I can remember. It might be useful against Junker, though.

Magic Window (fight Shroobs in Bowser's Castle) - This attack can potentially do the most damage of any special attack, as it is the only one to not end automatically after a certain number of hits. Unfortunately, it's in a very out-of-the-way location, and requires a boss battle to obtain, so it's basically out of the question for a normal speedrun. For a 100% that includes the Gauntlet, though...

Falling Star (Peach's Castle) - A very powerful attack that can reduce enemy defense. The defense reduction happens about half the time and appears to work on all bosses (not sure about the final). Not too far out of the way either. There are very few bosses left by that point, though. Also, its 20 SP cost only allows a few uses per battle at low levels, even with the Budget Charm.

I did not find most of Bowser's special attacks to be very useful, as Bowser's SP runs out very quickly. The Magikoopas do a huge amount of damage though, and take a short time to use, so I would recommend them for the bosses that remain at that point. (Also, they can hit Fawful when he's in midair.) Broggy probably does the most damage, but takes too long to obtain. I'm not sure which attack is best before obtaining Magikoopas. (Probably either Goombas or Koopas.)

Finally, I think the 100% definition sounds good, but unless I'm missing some trick, Level 40 takes a very long time for Bowser. I personally gave up on it because the enemies in Peach's Castle (which give much more EXP than anywhere else) take so long to use their attacks that it became boring. (For Mario and Luigi, the enemies in the Airway give so much EXP that I leveled from 30 to 40 pretty quickly.) I suppose that if you are obtaining maximum rank in a speedrun, leveling up speed would become much more useful.

I apologize if this long post is a problem, though as far as I know, any information could be helpful.

I hope someone will be interested in doing a speedrun for this at some point.

Edit: Corrected EXP Socks multiplier (x1.3, not x1.1) in response to the next post.

Power is definitely the priority for leveling up in any M&L game. I agree about also increasing SP (and using the Budget Charm for 30% reduction if it would prevent at least one mid-battle heal) and Stache/Horn. Not sure about Speed - if it's only one enemy attack at most per battle, is it worth putting levels into it? (At the low levels a speedrun will be at, the bosses will probably be attacking first anyway.) HP and Defense are not worth leveling at all in segmented runs, as every attack can be dodged. This stat advice also applies to equipment, by the way, though planning which equipment to use at the same time is also important.

This game does not automatically heal you after boss battles, meaning SP-restoring items are necessary. The game does have a huge number (around 18) of Star Candies (full HP/SP restore, but limited in quantity).

Excellent badge + Powerful Badge seems like a good idea to me. (If you need coins, picking up some equipment and selling it is an option.)

It may to be useful to use the EXP Socks (no-damage = EXP x1.3 for 1 bro) if you have a spare equipment slot, if an extra level or two would help (or if aiming for level 40).

I don't know about Fury. Bowser takes a lot of damage even at normal levels, and I found it to rarely activate for me.

I'm assuming it's fastest to fight no battles other than storyline ones?

Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):

Green Shell (automatic) - does more damage than a jump, but takes a long time to execute. May be useful against bosses if the boss's turns take a long time. Also good for getting lucky hits.

Fire Flower (water area in Bowser) - I personally found this to be basically useless unless you need multi-target damage that is about the same as a no-action-command jump. It appears to do less damage than Green Shell to a single target. Also, the attack parts are very spread out.

Jump Helmet (Flab Zone) - A powerful single-target attack that also takes less time than most special attacks. Also adds a good amount to the badge meter. I would say pick this up in a speedrun, and use it often. (Also, this is the best attack to use after a power boost, as the badge only boosts the first hit of a special attack.) One downside of that it only hits once is that it's less likely to critical (though that could be manipulated with segmenting).

Yoo Who Cannon (automatic with blue shell) - This attack does not seem to be powerful enough to be worth using against bosses, and 7 SP is pretty expensive as well. Good multi-target attack against normal enemies if you ever need to fight them between this point and Mighty Meteor, though I don't think you do.

Super Bouncer (Energy Hold = lights on/off area in Bowser) - I was never very good at this attack, so I'm not sure if it would be useful. It does take pretty long to use, though.

Spin Pipe (solve one Kuzzle puzzle) - The minigame probably isn't worth the time for an attack that has no real advantage over the other attacks.

Mightly Meteor (automatic with Mario-inflate ability) - This attack is pretty fast and can reduce enemy power (not that reducing power is useful in a speedrun). It does pretty good damage as well, especially for 8 SP. Though only 5 hits on random targets can be a problem for bosses like Dark Star.

Snack Basket (required before Chakron's Star Cure) - I don't think this attack's useful at all on bosses, and there aren't really any required multiple-enemy fights after this point as far as I can remember. It might be useful against Junker, though.

Magic Window (fight Shroobs in Bowser's Castle) - This attack can potentially do the most damage of any special attack, as it is the only one to not end automatically after a certain number of hits. Unfortunately, it's in a very out-of-the-way location, and requires a boss battle to obtain, so it's basically out of the question for a normal speedrun. For a 100% that includes the Gauntlet, though...

Falling Star (Peach's Castle) - A very powerful attack that can reduce enemy defense. The defense reduction happens about half the time and appears to work on all bosses (not sure about the final). Not too far out of the way either. There are very few bosses left by that point, though. Also, its 20 SP cost only allows a few uses per battle at low levels, even with the Budget Charm.

I did not find most of Bowser's special attacks to be very useful, as Bowser's SP runs out very quickly. The Magikoopas do a huge amount of damage though, and take a short time to use, so I would recommend them for the bosses that remain at that point. (Also, they can hit Fawful when he's in midair.) Broggy probably does the most damage, but takes too long to obtain. I'm not sure which attack is best before obtaining Magikoopas. (Probably either Goombas or Koopas.)

Finally, I think the 100% definition sounds good, but unless I'm missing some trick, Level 40 takes a very long time for Bowser. I personally gave up on it because the enemies in Peach's Castle (which give much more EXP than anywhere else) take so long to use their attacks that it became boring. (For Mario and Luigi, the enemies in the Airway give so much EXP that I leveled from 30 to 40 pretty quickly.) I suppose that if you are obtaining maximum rank in a speedrun, leveling up speed would become much more useful.

I apologize if this long post is a problem, though as far as I know, any information could be helpful.

I hope someone will be interested in doing a speedrun for this at some point.

Edit: Corrected EXP Socks multiplier (x1.3, not x1.1) in response to the next post.

DoubleThink

2010-01-17 10:11:45 pm

There's a word for that

Quote from Infinite1up:

Power is definitely the priority for leveling up in any M&L game. I agree about also increasing SP (and using the Budget Charm for 30% reduction if it would prevent at least one mid-battle heal) and Stache/Horn. Not sure about Speed - if it's only one enemy attack at most per battle, is it worth putting levels into it? (At the low levels a speedrun will be at, the bosses will probably be attacking first anyway.)

Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser. There's certainly more space in this game for boosting other stats than there was in the Superstar Saga run, since a +1 or 2 to a stat in this game is less relatively than in that one due to higher stat growth, and there aren't those overpowered items in this game (#1 Trousers, Mush Badges).

Quote from Infinite1up:

It may to be useful to use the EXP Socks (no-damage = EXP x1.1 for 1 bro) if you have a spare equipment slot, if an extra level or two would help (or if aiming for level 40).

It's actually 1.3x EXP, but I still can't see that being useful in a normal speedrun unless one Bro gaining a level will help with the next boss and save an optional battle. This seems unlikely, because the EXP Socks will replace a damage-boosting item, meaning a slower first battle in the first place. Same deal for the Bonus Badge vs the Powerful Badge.

Quote from Infinite1up:

I don't know about Fury. Bowser takes a lot of damage even at normal levels, and I found it to rarely activate for me.

In theory it should activate faster in a speedrun, due to lower HP and Def (I'm thinking it activates after a certain multiple of max HP is dealt). I probably just got hit a lot more than you >_> When it does activate it's incredibly powerful, doubling all damage for a good 4-5 turns or so. I can see how this wouldn't be useful in, say, the final battle (just finished the game yesterday), but with lower levels + Fury Fangs + Drumstick Ring I could see it activating very quickly. Deliberately wearing weak armour could help charge it early on, especially against Wiggler who can only be hit periodically, but once the Rampage Shell/Wicked Shell show up I think they'll take priority. I don't think Def will need to be raised, maybe just one level of HP to help survive an extra hit on the next boss if necessary, and it should get a big increase from being left alone before that.

Quote from Infinite1up:

I'm assuming it's fastest to fight no battles other than storyline ones?

Unless you're looking for a certain item and/or a quick level will help significantly in some way, then yeah. Maybe for charging the Badge Meter as well? That's probably the most likely reason, actually.

Quote from Infinite1up:

Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):

There's also the length of time it takes to get the puzzle pieces to consider for optional abilities. I think damage in this game is % based, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the basic power of each ability.

Oh man, this is gonna be a big post:

Quote from Infinite1up:

Green Shell (automatic) - does more damage than a jump, but takes a long time to execute. May be useful against bosses if the boss's turns take a long time. Also good for getting lucky hits.

I like this ability a lot, but it's not really that much more powerful than an Excellent! double-Jump, and it's quite slow to use. ...This ability is mandatory?

Quote from Infinite1up:

Fire Flower (water area in Bowser) - I personally found this to be basically useless unless you need multi-target damage that is about the same as a no-action-command jump. It appears to do less damage than Green Shell to a single target. Also, the attack parts are very spread out.

This can be very useful on multiple targets, especially when they're weak to it/it can set them on fire. The Sockops come to mind in that regard. But yeah, I don't think it has the sheer power/speed to be used in a speedrun.

Quote from Infinite1up:

Jump Helmet (Flab Zone) - A powerful single-target attack that also takes less time than most special attacks. Also adds a good amount to the badge meter. I would say pick this up in a speedrun, and use it often. (Also, this is the best attack to use after a power boost, as the badge only boosts the first hit of a special attack.) One downside of that it only hits once is that it's less likely to critical (though that could be manipulated with segmenting).

This is great and all except that I am TERRIBLE with this attack, to the point that I've never got it to stick once. It also takes time to get, and the only fight it will help with before getting the free Yoo Who Cannon is Alpha Kretin... which might be enough, provided it could finish that battle in only one round of form changes. The badge thing might also be important to consider, although I hadn't noticed that it did that myself ._. I don't know if it's stronger than Yoo Who Cannon.

Quote from Infinite1up:

Falling Star (Peach's Castle) - A very powerful attack that can reduce enemy defense. The defense reduction happens about half the time and appears to work on all bosses (not sure about the final). Not too far out of the way either. There are very few bosses left by that point, though. Also, its 20 SP cost only allows a few uses per battle at low levels, even with the Budget Charm.

It may be essential to get this one, in order to defeat the Dark Star Core in as few rounds as possible.

Quote from Infinite1up:

I'm not sure which attack is best before obtaining Magikoopas. (Probably either Goombas or Koopas.)

I was gonna say Shy Guys Sad

[quote="Infinite1up"]
Power is definitely the priority for leveling up in any M&L game. I agree about also increasing SP (and using the Budget Charm for 30% reduction if it would prevent at least one mid-battle heal) and Stache/Horn. Not sure about Speed - if it's only one enemy attack at most per battle, is it worth putting levels into it? (At the low levels a speedrun will be at, the bosses will probably be attacking first anyway.)[/quote]Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser. There's certainly more space in this game for boosting other stats than there was in the Superstar Saga run, since a +1 or 2 to a stat in this game is less relatively than in that one due to higher stat growth, and there aren't those overpowered items in this game (#1 Trousers, Mush Badges).

[quote="Infinite1up"]It may to be useful to use the EXP Socks (no-damage = EXP x1.1 for 1 bro) if you have a spare equipment slot, if an extra level or two would help (or if aiming for level 40).[/quote]It's actually 1.3x EXP, but I still can't see that being useful in a normal speedrun unless one Bro gaining a level will help with the next boss and save an optional battle. This seems unlikely, because the EXP Socks will replace a damage-boosting item, meaning a slower first battle in the first place. Same deal for the Bonus Badge vs the Powerful Badge.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
I don't know about Fury. Bowser takes a lot of damage even at normal levels, and I found it to rarely activate for me.[/quote]In theory it should activate faster in a speedrun, due to lower HP and Def (I'm thinking it activates after a certain multiple of max HP is dealt). I probably just got hit a lot more than you >_> When it does activate it's incredibly powerful, doubling all damage for a good 4-5 turns or so. I can see how this wouldn't be useful in, say, the final battle (just finished the game yesterday), but with lower levels + Fury Fangs + Drumstick Ring I could see it activating very quickly. Deliberately wearing weak armour could help charge it early on, especially against Wiggler who can only be hit periodically, but once the Rampage Shell/Wicked Shell show up I think they'll take priority. I don't think Def will need to be raised, maybe just one level of HP to help survive an extra hit on the next boss if necessary, and it should get a big increase from being left alone before that.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
I'm assuming it's fastest to fight no battles other than storyline ones?[/quote]Unless you're looking for a certain item and/or a quick level will help significantly in some way, then yeah. Maybe for charging the Badge Meter as well? That's probably the most likely reason, actually.

[quote="Infinite1up"]Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):[/quote]There's also the length of time it takes to get the puzzle pieces to consider for optional abilities. I think damage in this game is % based, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out the basic power of each ability.

Oh man, this is gonna be a big post:

[quote="Infinite1up"]
Green Shell (automatic) - does more damage than a jump, but takes a long time to execute. May be useful against bosses if the boss's turns take a long time. Also good for getting lucky hits.[/quote]I like this ability a lot, but it's not really that much more powerful than an Excellent! double-Jump, and it's quite slow to use. ...This ability is mandatory?

[quote="Infinite1up"]
Fire Flower (water area in Bowser) - I personally found this to be basically useless unless you need multi-target damage that is about the same as a no-action-command jump. It appears to do less damage than Green Shell to a single target. Also, the attack parts are very spread out.[/quote]This can be very useful on multiple targets, especially when they're weak to it/it can set them on fire. The Sockops come to mind in that regard. But yeah, I don't think it has the sheer power/speed to be used in a speedrun.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
Jump Helmet (Flab Zone) - A powerful single-target attack that also takes less time than most special attacks. Also adds a good amount to the badge meter. I would say pick this up in a speedrun, and use it often. (Also, this is the best attack to use after a power boost, as the badge only boosts the first hit of a special attack.) One downside of that it only hits once is that it's less likely to critical (though that could be manipulated with segmenting).[/quote]This is great and all except that I am TERRIBLE with this attack, to the point that I've never got it to stick once. It also takes time to get, and the only fight it will help with before getting the free Yoo Who Cannon is Alpha Kretin... which might be enough, provided it could finish that battle in only one round of form changes. The badge thing might also be important to consider, although I hadn't noticed that it did that myself ._. I don't know if it's stronger than Yoo Who Cannon.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
Falling Star (Peach's Castle) - A very powerful attack that can reduce enemy defense. The defense reduction happens about half the time and appears to work on all bosses (not sure about the final). Not too far out of the way either. There are very few bosses left by that point, though. Also, its 20 SP cost only allows a few uses per battle at low levels, even with the Budget Charm.[/quote]It may be essential to get this one, in order to defeat the Dark Star Core in as few rounds as possible.

[quote="Infinite1up"]I'm not sure which attack is best before obtaining Magikoopas. (Probably either Goombas or Koopas.)[/quote]I was gonna say Shy Guys :(

LadyKrile

2010-02-01 12:49:21 am

Quote from DoubleThink:

Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser.

Why would this be? Can Speed affect your/enemies' number of turns by more than 1 per battle? (It doesn't in M&L1, but I think it does in M&L2 for bosses. No idea about in M&L3.)

Quote from DoubleThink:

It's actually 1.3x EXP

Corrected (just in case someone reads my post and not your response)

Quote from DoubleThink:

but I still can't see that being useful in a normal speedrun unless one Bro gaining a level will help with the next boss and save an optional battle. This seems unlikely, because the EXP Socks will replace a damage-boosting item, meaning a slower first battle in the first place. Same deal for the Bonus Badge vs the Powerful Badge.

Agreed. (I just seem to like EXP-boosting items for some reason. Must have influenced me here.)
This advice can also apply to potential extra fighting before a boss, if a level saves significant time. (Though I can't think of any case when this would occur, unless it's something like the Dark Star reviving. Either form.)

Quote from DoubleThink:

(various things about Fury) especially against Wiggler who can only be hit periodically,

Yes, maybe Fury would be useful here.
My personal experience with Fury was only either against bosses that I was deliberately slow on in order to practice dodging their attacks, or against large groups of normal enemies early in a new area, before I learned their attacks. Dodging with Bowser is mostly pretty easy, at least before the second trip to Bowser's Castle.

Quote from DoubleThink:

Quote from Infinite1up:

Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):

(responses to these comments)

Green Shell is mandatory. The doors won't open until you collect all attack pieces in the room.

Fire Flower has extremely scattered attack parts.

I found Yoo Who Cannon to do less single-target damage than Jump Helmet.

As far as I can remember (and checking GameFAQs), Jump Helmet actually only requires 4 different blocks. Two of the blocks contain 4 parts each.

I think Yoo Who Cannon and Magic Meteor are definitely better than Fire Flower for the Sockop battles.

Quote from DoubleThink:

It may be essential to get this one [Falling Star], in order to defeat the Dark Star Core in as few rounds as possible.

Yes, this may be true. I suppose testing would be needed to see how many rounds the Dark Star Core takes at speedrunning levels, with and without Falling Star.

Quote from DoubleThink:

I was gonna say Shy Guys Sad

I forgot about them. (don't like repeated touch screen rubbing, so I rarely used them)

So, it seems like a speedrun would pick up Jump Helmet, Magikoopas, and possibly Falling Star and Shy Guys? (plus all required attacks)

(I'm not really a speedrunner. I just like posting random useful (hopefully) information on the forums here. Is this OK? Just asking because I've had problems in the past when making long posts in topics that haven't really developed.)

[quote="DoubleThink"]
Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser.[/quote]
Why would this be? Can Speed affect your/enemies' number of turns by more than 1 per battle? (It doesn't in M&L1, but I think it does in M&L2 for bosses. No idea about in M&L3.)

[quote="DoubleThink"]
It's actually 1.3x EXP[/quote]
Corrected (just in case someone reads my post and not your response)

[quote="DoubleThink"]
but I still can't see that being useful in a normal speedrun unless one Bro gaining a level will help with the next boss and save an optional battle. This seems unlikely, because the EXP Socks will replace a damage-boosting item, meaning a slower first battle in the first place. Same deal for the Bonus Badge vs the Powerful Badge.[/quote]
Agreed. (I just seem to like EXP-boosting items for some reason. Must have influenced me here.)
This advice can also apply to potential extra fighting before a boss, if a level saves significant time. (Though I can't think of any case when this would occur, unless it's something like the Dark Star reviving. Either form.)

[quote="DoubleThink"]
(various things about Fury) especially against Wiggler who can only be hit periodically,[/quote]
Yes, maybe Fury would be useful here.
My personal experience with Fury was only either against bosses that I was deliberately slow on in order to practice dodging their attacks, or against large groups of normal enemies early in a new area, before I learned their attacks. Dodging with Bowser is mostly pretty easy, at least before the second trip to Bowser's Castle.

[quote="DoubleThink"]
[quote="Infinite1up"]Comments about various special attacks in regards to a speedrun (someone should probably test attack damage in relation to amount of time taken):[/quote](responses to these comments)[/quote]

Green Shell is mandatory. The doors won't open until you collect all attack pieces in the room.

Fire Flower has extremely scattered attack parts.

I found Yoo Who Cannon to do less single-target damage than Jump Helmet.

As far as I can remember (and checking GameFAQs), Jump Helmet actually only requires 4 different blocks. Two of the blocks contain 4 parts each.

I think Yoo Who Cannon and Magic Meteor are definitely better than Fire Flower for the Sockop battles.

[quote="DoubleThink"]
It may be essential to get this one [Falling Star], in order to defeat the Dark Star Core in as few rounds as possible.[/quote]
Yes, this may be true. I suppose testing would be needed to see how many rounds the Dark Star Core takes at speedrunning levels, with and without Falling Star.

[quote="DoubleThink"]
I was gonna say Shy Guys :([/quote]
I forgot about them. (don't like repeated touch screen rubbing, so I rarely used them)

So, it seems like a speedrun would pick up Jump Helmet, Magikoopas, and possibly Falling Star and Shy Guys? (plus all required attacks)

(I'm not really a speedrunner. I just like posting random useful (hopefully) information on the forums here. Is this OK? Just asking because I've had problems in the past when making long posts in topics that haven't really developed.)

DoubleThink

2010-02-01 03:19:14 am

There's a word for that

Quote from Infinite1up:

Quote from DoubleThink:

Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser.

Why would this be? Can Speed affect your/enemies' number of turns by more than 1 per battle? (It doesn't in M&L1, but I think it does in M&L2 for bosses. No idea about in M&L3.)

Yeah I only meant by 1 turn, but in cases where higher Pow won't mean one less attack, or higher SP won't allow the use of another ability etc., it's the only further way to shorten battles.

Quote from Infinite1up:

I forgot about them. (don't like repeated touch screen rubbing, so I rarely used them)

So, it seems like a speedrun would pick up Jump Helmet, Magikoopas, and possibly Falling Star and Shy Guys? (plus all required attacks)

This seems about right. Shy Guy Squad is the stronger/faster choice for use against Midbus, which unless I'm forgetting something is actually the last 'regular' boss battle for Bowser before Blizzard Midbus, by which time he'll have the Magikoopas. It'll be a simple matter of timing with Shy Guys and without them.

Quote from Infinite1up:

(I'm not really a speedrunner. I just like posting random useful (hopefully) information on the forums here. Is this OK? Just asking because I've had problems in the past when making long posts in topics that haven't really developed.)

I do the exact same thing, all the time Grin

[quote="Infinite1up"]
[quote="DoubleThink"]
Later on in the game, higher Speed might be the best/only way to defeat enemies faster, especially for Bowser.[/quote]
Why would this be? Can Speed affect your/enemies' number of turns by more than 1 per battle? (It doesn't in M&L1, but I think it does in M&L2 for bosses. No idea about in M&L3.)[/quote]Yeah I only meant by 1 turn, but in cases where higher Pow won't mean one less attack, or higher SP won't allow the use of another ability etc., it's the only further way to shorten battles.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
I forgot about them. (don't like repeated touch screen rubbing, so I rarely used them)

So, it seems like a speedrun would pick up Jump Helmet, Magikoopas, and possibly Falling Star and Shy Guys? (plus all required attacks)[/quote]This seems about right. Shy Guy Squad is the stronger/faster choice for use against Midbus, which unless I'm forgetting something is actually the last 'regular' boss battle for Bowser before [i]Blizzard[/i] Midbus, by which time he'll have the Magikoopas. It'll be a simple matter of timing with Shy Guys and without them.

[quote="Infinite1up"]
(I'm not really a speedrunner. I just like posting random useful (hopefully) information on the forums here. Is this OK? Just asking because I've had problems in the past when making long posts in topics that haven't really developed.)[/quote]I do the exact same thing, all the time ;D

Toufool31

Edit history:

Toufool31: 2010-08-02 01:31:38 am

2010-08-02 01:18:21 am

too many gyros

I got this game for Christmas last year, but I'm an idiot to say that I just opened it up and started to play it this year. This game is really fun, and definitely runnable.

I'm getting pretty far into this game, but I haven't finished it yet. I have been reading some useful information about this game in this topic, but I think the only way I can run an RPG game like this and have the patience to do it by segments, just like the superstar saga game was (3:24). anyone wanna back me up on this? I think it would be fun to run and an awesome one at that. I mean, I wouldn't do super short segments of overusing the save block, I would DEFINITELY skip it many times, and go on with that segment. It would probably be around the superstar saga, 30 segments or lower.

But, I have never done a segmented speedrun, but if anyone would like to give some helpful info go right ahead. I'll be finishing the game soon, and I'll read up more on this topic later after I finish my Diddy Kong Racing run.

DoubleThink

2010-08-02 06:51:35 am

There's a word for that

General rule for segmenting is "keep a segment going until the time it takes to save is lower than the time you would expect to lose if you continued". Sometimes they can reasonably go on for a long while, and sometimes they can be short and easy if the surrounding segments are very difficult. And sometimes... you just have to take what you can get. Wiggler is probably going to suck, because there's that carrot-eating minigame beforehand that needs to be executed reasonably well, and when I fought him it seemed like he would spam the much-slower watering attack rather than the charge attack that sets him up for easy damage. Then there's the fact that at every level up there are stat bonuses to manipulate Sad

Out-of-battle movement also plays a really big part in this game, so thankfully it's not all luck-based. Same deal with attack/dodge timing. There's not really much you could wrong in a test run, since you can't get stuck in this game and any fight should give clues as to how to execute it better. There's also a TAS WIP expecting updates in the short term, and they're usually pretty good in terms of ideas for what to do in a console run.

In the meantime, I don't know whether huge battles actually use Bowser's stats, or if it's an arcade-style deal.

General rule for segmenting is "keep a segment going until the time it takes to save is lower than the time you would expect to lose if you continued". Sometimes they can reasonably go on for a long while, and sometimes they can be short and easy if the surrounding segments are very difficult. And sometimes... you just have to take what you can get. Wiggler is probably going to suck, because there's that carrot-eating minigame beforehand that needs to be executed reasonably well, and when I fought him it seemed like he would spam the much-slower watering attack rather than the charge attack that sets him up for easy damage. Then there's the fact that at [i]every[/i] level up there are stat bonuses to manipulate :(

Out-of-battle movement also plays a really big part in this game, so thankfully it's not all luck-based. Same deal with attack/dodge timing. There's not really much you could wrong in a test run, since you can't get stuck in this game and any fight should give clues as to how to execute it better. There's also a TAS WIP expecting updates in the short term, and they're usually pretty good in terms of ideas for what to do in a console run.

In the meantime, I don't know whether huge battles actually use Bowser's stats, or if it's an arcade-style deal.

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-08-02 10:41:17 am

2010-08-02 09:35:39 am

I actually did a test run for this game and am working on a second. I would love to do a run for this if I get an audio cable. What I discovered:

Fury is based on the number of hits to Bowser, rather than damage. As such, bosses with attacks that deal multiple hits with little damage can easily activate fury. These include the Sea Pipe Statue's spin attack in the belly, Wiggler's watering plants, maybe Blizzard Midbus with a couple remaining Snawfuls, and maybe Dark Fawful's energy ball attack (if you have enough health).

If you press X and Y when inhaling, it works 10 times more effectively. And faster. (Credit goes to this one dude on YouTube, can't remember his name, who stated it in a comment)

Special Attacks:

Shell: Required, also helps against Durmite, when she starts straw spamming, and later gets Wisdurm to turn back into Durmite rather quickly.

Jump Helmets: Optional, does a lot of damage before you get Mighty Meteor and falling star. However, it is later helpful for damaging the Dark Satellmites in the Dark Star battle. (Note that getting Excellent can sometimes be a pain)

The Barrel thingy: Can't remember its name. Required, Couldn't find much use for it.

Snack Basket: Required, could help against Junker. Time it well.

Mighty Meteor: Required: Helps against the Snawfuls (but could be replaced by Snack Basket), hits the glasses and legs of Dark Star Core rather nicely.

Falling Star: Optional: Use against Junker when there are zero other enemies, Dark Star when its vulnerable, Dark Fawful's Vacuum Helmet, Dark Star Core.

Goomba: Required: Use for Wiggler and the required Treevil battle.

Shy Guys: Optional: Use against Midbus.

Magikoopas: Optional: Use against Blizzard Midbus, Dark Fawful/Vacuum Helmet, and Dark Bowser.

Sea Pipe Statue: Make sure it does the spin in Bowser’s belly attack twice. It gets him into Fury.

Avoiding the one Spiny that drops from the ceiling in the water area: Press the A and B buttons simultaneously while on the ground and its coming at you, then press right/left. You have to avoid it twice. Make sure the body is filled with water too.

Avoiding the one Blooper guarding the Fighter Wear: Swim to the top, then right as it is above you, drain the body of water, and run.

Wiggler: Take damage from his watering the plants attack to get into Fury. Note that you shouldn’t vacuum the Fly Guys carrying the giant turnip. Make sure you have enough health to survive the Turnip. (Also note that Bowser had a bad tendency to exit fury right when Wiggler becomes vulnerable)

Durmite: Focus on Durmite with jumps. Ignore those white dudes. When Durmite starts spamming the straw, you might have to use shell in order to be able to attack Durmite.

Giant Bowser Battles aren’t based off of Bowser’s stats. Otherwise the Fawful Express would be impossible. (It already sorta is)

Midbus battle: This is gonna be one of the woah factors. You take a hit from his ball and chain swing attack (however, don't get hit when he throws it), then the crowd throws a piece of ham which restores health, and boosts attack. Shy Guy him.

My route through the Flab Area or whatever its called had the Attack Pieces in a good position.

Alpha Kretin: Um… yeah. Use Jump Helmets to do damage to the Beta Kretin and maybe the Alpha Kretin if you don’t have enough attack.

Make sure you have the Power Glove and Fighter Wear on Mario, and the Power Boots and the Budget Charm on Luigi, and have the Power Badge and the Excellent Badge equipped before fighting Bowseritis.

Bowseritis (Bowser 2): Attack with Jump Helmets. Use Pow Badge when possible. Self Explanatory. But it is a pain.

Wisdurm: Use Jump Helmets when it is in Durmite form. Kick her out of Wisdurm form by using Green Shells.

Bowser Memories: Go for L, then M. L has the tendency to use Mushrooms. (Note that you obviously attack M when L goes off screen)

Fawful Express: BY GOD, I HATE USING FLAME.

Note that Wiggler won’t let you get the 4 remaining Attack Pieces for Snack Basket until you talk to Chakron.

There is an enemy on the cliff side on the way to Chakron that I have no idea how to avoid.

Junker: Defeat the other cans with the Snack Basket. Use Falling Star on Junker. Get Special Gloves off of him.

Keys in Peaches Castle: You need all of them. One is for Magikoopas, one is for Economy Ring, one is for going forward.

Blizzard Midbus: Vacuum the Snawfuls and use either Mighty Meteor, or Snack Basket. Do it again. I recommend sucking up all of the next four too, despite the fact that you only need six, since they are a pain. Fire Flower would be helpful, but is far out of the way.

Airway: I have no clue how to avoid this one Air Cheap towards the beginning and the last two Air Shooter dudes towards the end.

Dark Star: Defeat the Dark Satellmites using Jump Helmet, then attack the Dark Star with Falling Star. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE D-STAR WEAR! IT INCREASES POW BY 80!

Dark Fawful: First, attack with Magikoopas, so you can deal damage to the vacuum helmet. Then suck it up when you get the chance. Attack it with Falling Star. Then defeat Fawful with Magikoopas.

Make sure before fighting Dark Bowser, that Mario has DX Pow Gloves, D-Star Wear, Budget Charm? Luigi: DX Pow Boots (if you can get enough cash) otherwise normal Pow Boots, Budget Charm, Special Gloves. Bowser: Wicked Shell, Power Band +, Economy Ring. (Maybe Power Fangs + from Blizzard Midbus)

Dark Bowser/Dark Star Core: Use Magikoopas against Dark Bowser. If you KO Dark Bowser by countering his Boulder attack, he won’t do the Giant Dark Bowser attack. Use Mighty Meteors do damage the Glasses and the legs. Attack the Dark Star Core using Falling Star.

My test run had a time of 8:40-58. It didn’t use all these strats.

EDIT: Also, speed doesn't affect how many attacks bosses get.

Over segmenting in this game is an oxymoron. Honestly. There isn't a reason not to use a save box when you come across it. There is a bit of shop manipulation and crit manipulation could help too. Also, stat manips.

I actually did a test run for this game and am working on a second. I would love to do a run for this if I get an audio cable. What I discovered:

Fury is based on the number of hits to Bowser, rather than damage. As such, bosses with attacks that deal multiple hits with little damage can easily activate fury. These include the Sea Pipe Statue's spin attack in the belly, Wiggler's watering plants, maybe Blizzard Midbus with a couple remaining Snawfuls, and maybe Dark Fawful's energy ball attack (if you have enough health).

If you press X and Y when inhaling, it works 10 times more effectively. And faster. (Credit goes to this one dude on YouTube, can't remember his name, who stated it in a comment)

Special Attacks:

Shell: Required, also helps against Durmite, when she starts straw spamming, and later gets Wisdurm to turn back into Durmite rather quickly.

Jump Helmets: Optional, does a lot of damage before you get Mighty Meteor and falling star. However, it is later helpful for damaging the Dark Satellmites in the Dark Star battle. (Note that getting Excellent can sometimes be a pain)

The Barrel thingy: Can't remember its name. Required, Couldn't find much use for it.

Snack Basket: Required, could help against Junker. Time it well.

Mighty Meteor: Required: Helps against the Snawfuls (but could be replaced by Snack Basket), hits the glasses and legs of Dark Star Core rather nicely.

Falling Star: Optional: Use against Junker when there are zero other enemies, Dark Star when its vulnerable, Dark Fawful's Vacuum Helmet, Dark Star Core.

Goomba: Required: Use for Wiggler and the required Treevil battle.

Shy Guys: Optional: Use against Midbus.

Magikoopas: Optional: Use against Blizzard Midbus, Dark Fawful/Vacuum Helmet, and Dark Bowser.

Sea Pipe Statue: Make sure it does the spin in Bowser’s belly attack twice. It gets him into Fury.

Avoiding the one Spiny that drops from the ceiling in the water area: Press the A and B buttons simultaneously while on the ground and its coming at you, then press right/left. You have to avoid it twice. Make sure the body is filled with water too.

Avoiding the one Blooper guarding the Fighter Wear: Swim to the top, then right as it is above you, drain the body of water, and run.

Wiggler: Take damage from his watering the plants attack to get into Fury. Note that you shouldn’t vacuum the Fly Guys carrying the giant turnip. Make sure you have enough health to survive the Turnip. (Also note that Bowser had a bad tendency to exit fury right when Wiggler becomes vulnerable)

Durmite: Focus on Durmite with jumps. Ignore those white dudes. When Durmite starts spamming the straw, you might have to use shell in order to be able to attack Durmite.

Giant Bowser Battles aren’t based off of Bowser’s stats. Otherwise the Fawful Express would be impossible. (It already sorta is)

Midbus battle: This is gonna be one of the woah factors. You take a hit from his ball and chain swing attack (however, don't get hit when he throws it), then the crowd throws a piece of ham which restores health, and boosts attack. Shy Guy him.

My route through the Flab Area or whatever its called had the Attack Pieces in a good position.

Alpha Kretin: Um… yeah. Use Jump Helmets to do damage to the Beta Kretin and maybe the Alpha Kretin if you don’t have enough attack.

Make sure you have the Power Glove and Fighter Wear on Mario, and the Power Boots and the Budget Charm on Luigi, and have the Power Badge and the Excellent Badge equipped before fighting Bowseritis.

Bowseritis (Bowser 2): Attack with Jump Helmets. Use Pow Badge when possible. Self Explanatory. But it is a pain.

Wisdurm: Use  Jump Helmets when it is in Durmite form. Kick her out of Wisdurm form by using Green Shells.

Bowser Memories: Go for L, then M. L has the tendency to use Mushrooms. (Note that you obviously attack M when L goes off screen)

Fawful Express: BY GOD, I HATE USING FLAME.

Note that Wiggler won’t let you get the 4 remaining Attack Pieces for Snack Basket until you talk to Chakron.

There is an enemy on the cliff side on the way to Chakron that I have no idea how to avoid.

Junker: Defeat the other cans with the Snack Basket. Use Falling Star on Junker. Get Special Gloves off of him.

Keys in Peaches Castle: You need all of them. One is for Magikoopas, one is for Economy Ring, one is for going forward.

Blizzard Midbus: Vacuum the Snawfuls and use either Mighty Meteor, or Snack Basket. Do it again. I recommend sucking up all of the next four too, despite the fact that you only need six, since they are a pain. Fire Flower would be helpful, but is far out of the way.

Airway: I have no clue how to avoid this one Air Cheap towards the beginning and the last two Air Shooter dudes towards the end.

Dark Star: Defeat the Dark Satellmites using Jump Helmet, then attack the Dark Star with Falling Star. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE D-STAR WEAR! IT INCREASES POW BY 80!

Dark Fawful: First, attack with Magikoopas, so you can deal damage to the vacuum helmet. Then suck it up when you get the chance. Attack it with Falling Star. Then defeat Fawful with Magikoopas.

Make sure before fighting Dark Bowser, that Mario has DX Pow Gloves, D-Star Wear, Budget Charm? Luigi: DX Pow Boots (if you can get enough cash) otherwise normal Pow Boots, Budget Charm, Special Gloves. Bowser: Wicked Shell, Power Band +, Economy Ring. (Maybe Power Fangs + from Blizzard Midbus)

Dark Bowser/Dark Star Core: Use Magikoopas against Dark Bowser. If you KO Dark Bowser by countering his Boulder attack, he won’t do the Giant Dark Bowser attack. Use Mighty Meteors do damage the Glasses and the legs. Attack the Dark Star Core using Falling Star.

My test run had a time of 8:40-58. It didn’t use all these strats.

EDIT: Also, speed doesn't affect how many attacks bosses get.

Over segmenting in this game is an oxymoron. Honestly. There isn't a reason not to use a save box when you come across it. There is a bit of shop manipulation and crit manipulation could help too. Also, stat manips.

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2011-12-25 03:59:17 pm

AniMeowzerz: 2011-12-25 03:40:02 pm

2011-12-25 03:39:02 pm

Alright, I'm giving this kind of an outrageous bump

CAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT >:[

Anyways, I got my capture device from Loopy a few days ago, and I figured since I actually got my copy of Bowser's Inside Story to work again via magic and witchcraft [a long time ago] that I'd start making a test run!
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9F370B6794F2C480&feature=mh_lolz
I'll be taking note of all the comments that have been made so far, and I hope there's more support for this Tongue

I'm currently up to segment 6 in the playlist [Just got Hammer. Time- 00:17]

Sillygramcracker

2011-12-25 10:44:56 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

Quote:

[Just got Hammer. Time- 00:17]

Teehee, I see what you did there.

Anwonu

2011-12-25 11:25:36 pm

CHOKES

ABout the hills, you can walk to the opposite side, jump, and then change the direction to the correct side. Since you jumped when going downhill, the horizontal speed will be the normal.
It saves very little time, it's not that easy to do, and I don't remember if there's some place where this could be actually useful, but..

BTW, I'm interested in this run as well =p

DoubleThink

2011-12-26 03:48:18 am

There's a word for that

Oh cool, I'll be keeping an eye on that playlist too. Manipulating level up bonuses is going to be a super phun time Cheesy

aggron

2011-12-26 08:06:49 am

I'm looking forward to this. I tried a test run a while ago, but gave up after a while. Have you already seriously planned your route and which gear everybody will use?
Jump Helmet is likely the best special attack to use, because it's only affected by Mario's attack stat. If you use the bonus on his attack and on Luigi's SP, you can get a lot powerful attacks in. Let Mario wear gear that boost his attack too and Luigi his SP. The D-Star Wear is amazing for Mario, but it's dropped by the Dark Star very late in the game. It's also annoying that you have to go out of the way to get a lot of good gear.

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2011-12-26 11:39:20 am

AniMeowzerz: 2011-12-26 10:07:02 am

2011-12-26 09:29:58 am

Quote from aggron:

I'm looking forward to this. I tried a test run a while ago, but gave up after a while. Have you already seriously planned your route and which gear everybody will use?
Jump Helmet is likely the best special attack to use, because it's only affected by Mario's attack stat. If you use the bonus on his attack and on Luigi's SP, you can get a lot powerful attacks in. Let Mario wear gear that boost his attack too and Luigi his SP. The D-Star Wear is amazing for Mario, but it's dropped by the Dark Star very late in the game. It's also annoying that you have to go out of the way to get a lot of good gear.

Yeah see this is kinda my problem, I don't have very much planned at the moment. I have a better idea now from the stuff that I've read in the thread, but as far as what everyone's getting, not really.
:x

I might erase my other file and really start messing around with what's available, how it affects things coming up, if it'll be useful later, etc.

Anyways, still on seg 7 cause JUMPING OVER ENEMIES WITH LUIGI IS A PAIN IN THE ASS >:I
Edit: I got it done, yaaaay

Double edit: I thought I might mention I found out today: The stat bonuses always appear in the same order on the reel everytime. So it's not luck-based, you just have to time it right

[quote="aggron"]I'm looking forward to this. I tried a test run a while ago, but gave up after a while. Have you already seriously planned your route and which gear everybody will use?
Jump Helmet is likely the best special attack to use, because it's only affected by Mario's attack stat. If you use the bonus on his attack and on Luigi's SP, you can get a lot powerful attacks in. Let Mario wear gear that boost his attack too and Luigi his SP. The D-Star Wear is amazing for Mario, but it's dropped by the Dark Star very late in the game. It's also annoying that you have to go out of the way to get a lot of good gear. [/quote]
Yeah see this is kinda my problem, I don't have very much planned at the moment. I have a better idea now from the stuff that I've read in the thread, but as far as what everyone's getting, not really.
:x

I might erase my other file and really start messing around with what's available, how it affects things coming up, if it'll be useful later, etc.

Anyways, still on seg 7 cause JUMPING OVER ENEMIES WITH LUIGI IS A PAIN IN THE ASS >:I
Edit: I got it done, yaaaay

Double edit: I thought I might mention I found out today: The stat bonuses always appear in the same order on the reel everytime. So it's not luck-based, you just have to time it right

kirbymastah

2011-12-26 03:15:46 pm

yeah i've played this game on an emulator with slowdowns, and you can definitely time getting +3 on pow every level up, making it worth pumping everything into power. There're two +2s and one +3 on the reel if you continuously pump pow; my queue for landing on +3 is on one of the +2s, the reel goes:

2,1,1,3

so I count two passes on the 1 and then push A when that 3 pops up. It really adds up in the long run; I'm not sure if putting boosts into stache is worth it though...

UltimateDarius

2012-07-23 03:37:34 pm

Back in the game!

Here's a major bump for one minor 100% pointer: Daredevil boots are epic.

Anwonu

Edit history:

Anwonu: 2012-11-25 10:26:06 pm

2012-11-25 10:12:46 pm

CHOKES

Let me bump again.

I'm playing this game again, trying to battle only the necessary battles, so I can see how hard this could be to run.
This is being semi-casual: while I'm avoiding battles, I'm getting many items out of the way, and maybe not necessary. Same for the special attacks (at least, fire flowers so far).

Anyway.. I'm at Bowseritis/2nd Bowser now. I think getting Daredevil Boots may be worth even in a normal run. Even though you waste some time to get it, you'll pretty much halve the time to defeat bosses where you use the Jump Helmet. Maybe even more, since you get the Powerful and Excellent badges almost right after Daredevil Boots.
Also, you get 500 coins from the challenge too. I don't know if there's somewhere where I can get easy money (99 block? =p), but I got close to 3000 at the time the mall opened.

Edit: about the coins, it seems you can get almost 1000 from the mushroom balls, so I guess coin wouldn't really be a problem.

Anwonu

2012-11-29 09:35:00 am

CHOKES

So, I've finally finished it again.
I'm still not sure if it's faster to get Daredevil Boots or not.

Bowser 2, Wisdurm and Memory M/L probably gets easier and faster.
Junker, not sure, since I have the Falling Star, which has a chance of decreasing def. And does a bit more damage than Jump Helmet IIRC.
Dark Star, probably; I can kill the Satellmites with 1 Snack Basket.
Vacuum Helmet, maybe. D-Star + Daredevil did 1000+ with 1 Jump Helmet, which killed it because I did some damage with Bowser. But this means I could maybe kill with 2 Jump Helmet, 1 from each bro, without Daredevil.
Dark Star Core: maybe? Eyes dies with 1 Jump Helmet each, apparently even without Daredevil. Legs can be killed with Snack Basket. I think I then killed with 2 Jump Helmets.

I still don't know if Falling Star is affected by Daredevil Boots. My guess would be no, since it's a combined attack.

I might start doing a test run and time some bosses with and without the boots. Who knows.

JRD05

2012-12-01 01:45:08 pm

I thought daredevil boots did affect falling star. I believe the damage is applied only to the color of the star of the bro wearing it. I thought this was true for all special attacks such as Spin Pipe as well. I would probably give them to Mario since it seems he has higher base power than Luigi. DD boots are also going to help against Junker if he sucks Luigi into the Junker cans. Otherwise, you could spend tons of turns trying to get him out, which could easily ruin a single segment run.

Another minor consideration is to get or not to get shy guy squad as Bowser. The only part it would be useful for that I know of is Midbus 2. If you don't get shy guy squad, Bowser won't use it against Mario and Luigi in Bowser 2, which could save some time. Fire flower is another one of those specials that can probably be avoided.

Also, when it comes to Cholesteroad and Madame Broque challenges, it should be noted that the game will save your coins, prizes, and scores, even if you don't hit a save block afterwards. This could lead to getting items earlier than they were intended. However, you need to have a saved game file first, so I don't know how useful this will be. This could create a distinction between real and game time, since your game time isn't affected by doing the above. But there is no game time displayed at the end of the game anyways, so idk.

Coins are very plentiful in this game so they hopefully shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I thought daredevil boots did affect falling star.  I believe the damage is applied only to the color of the star of the bro wearing it.  I thought this was true for all special attacks such as Spin Pipe as well.  I would probably give them to Mario since it seems he has higher base power than Luigi.  DD boots are also going to help against Junker if he sucks Luigi into the Junker cans.  Otherwise, you could spend tons of turns trying to get him out, which could easily ruin a single segment run.

Another minor consideration is to get or not to get shy guy squad as Bowser.  The only part it would be useful for that I know of is Midbus 2.  If you don't get shy guy squad, Bowser won't use it against Mario and Luigi in Bowser 2, which could save some time.  Fire flower is another one of those specials that can probably be avoided.

Also, when it comes to Cholesteroad and Madame Broque challenges, it should be noted that the game will save your coins, prizes, and scores, even if you don't hit a save block afterwards.  This could lead to getting items earlier than they were intended.  However, you need to have a saved game file first, so I don't know how useful this will be.  This could create a distinction between real and game time, since your game time isn't affected by doing the above.  But there is no game time displayed at the end of the game anyways, so idk.

Coins are very plentiful in this game so they hopefully shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Anwonu

2012-12-01 02:31:40 pm

CHOKES

Just tested here. Apparently, Falling Star considers the average of both bros. The star did 59 against those moles without Daredevil, 80 equipped to Mario.

I haven't got Bowser to use Shy Guys against me (or any other special besides Goombas), in both runs (started one yesterday). Dunno if luck or not, but I did battle him a few times.

Coins, I got close to the 3000 before Toad Town, even with the 600 from the challenge. They start to appear more after you get out of Bowser; until then, there's not that many coins.

Good to know about the items and coins from the challenges. Even for real time, it could be useful for getting Daredevil for Kretin without losing too much time.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-12-01 11:43:59 pm

2012-12-01 11:43:44 pm

<(^_^)>

Not sure if you know about this, but http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954368-mario-and-luigi-bowsers-inside-story/52986514?page=5

Bowser's level affects the bro's level-ups too. And for some reason, the mario bros get particularly godly level ups at 37. Of course, this won't really be too applicable in a speedrun, but it may be something to consider?

And I can imagine getting Bowser's optional special attacks to be worth getting (besides bob-omb because screw that), since they're generally more powerful and not really out of the way. The only one that wouldn't reall be viable would be the doggy one, which takes freaking forever to get <_<

PS: Great to see you working on this game, Anwonu! Smiley

Anwonu

Edit history:

Anwonu: 2012-12-02 07:21:30 am

2012-12-02 06:56:44 am

CHOKES

The problem with level ups is that we can't really grind levels, unless justifiable. In PiT, I did to get some speed for Sunnycide. In this one, it doesn't seem necessary; maybe just for the first levels since they take forever to finish, but I don't think so.
Maybe for a 100%, but I'm not planning anything for that yet =p

The remaining special is Koopas for Bowser. But at that point, you'd already have Magikoopas, which I think it's better. From what I'm seeing, there's no normal boss battle between Midbus and Blizzard Midbus.

Also, an idea that may not go well, but it's still an idea: instead of putting the bonuses in POW for Bowser, we could try putting on HP/DEF, so we can receive more hits for fury. At least for lower levels.
Speaking of which, I couldn't activate it in Wiggler's battle. Against Sea Pipe Statue, I activated after 10 hits, but I received more from Wiggler and didn't activate. Maybe I need even more hits? =x
And I think the only battle hard to activate fury is Midbus. Blizzard has the snowballs (though it may make you sick), and you can get hit a few times on last battles (Wicked Shell is on the way, IIRC; there's also Dream Shell to buy, but I don't know when they start to sell it through the block (EDIT: at the very least, at Peach's Castle, after learning the spike ball, which is already before Wicked Shell)).

The problem with level ups is that we can't really grind levels, unless justifiable. In PiT, I did to get some speed for Sunnycide. In this one, it doesn't seem necessary; maybe just for the first levels since they take forever to finish, but I don't think so.
Maybe for a 100%, but I'm not planning anything for that yet =p

The remaining special is Koopas for Bowser. But at that point, you'd already have Magikoopas, which I think it's better. From what I'm seeing, there's no normal boss battle between Midbus and Blizzard Midbus.

Also, an idea that may not go well, but it's still an idea: instead of putting the bonuses in POW for Bowser, we could try putting on HP/DEF, so we can receive more hits for fury. At least for lower levels.
Speaking of which, I couldn't activate it in Wiggler's battle. Against Sea Pipe Statue, I activated after 10 hits, but I received more from Wiggler and didn't activate. Maybe I need even more hits? =x
And I think the only battle hard to activate fury is Midbus. Blizzard has the snowballs (though it may make you sick), and you can get hit a few times on last battles (Wicked Shell is on the way, IIRC; there's also Dream Shell to buy, but I don't know when they start to sell it through the block (EDIT: at the very least, at Peach's Castle, after learning the spike ball, which is already before Wicked Shell)).

kirbymastah

2012-12-02 05:05:04 pm

<(^_^)>

Yeah, I figured the level-up data isn't really useful for speedruns, but it's interesting nonetheless Tongue

Hm, I didn't think about buffing up tankiness to get more hits for fury... nice idea. Not sure if it'd be worth it; how exactly does fury work? Is there an invisible counter that keeps track of how often bowser has taken hits? If so, does it reset outside of battle?