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Edit history:
ballofsnow: 2011-10-08 07:14:40 pm
The tech support topic Is there a limit to .wav length/size? has prompted a re-evaluation of how audio will be encoded, specifically in Anri-chan. Before I can make it official, I need your help in figuring out whether the resulting audio files break any media players you may be using. I'm hoping for a worst case scenario where all media players at least play the audio tracks with some quality loss, and a best case scenario where all media players play the audio tracks at their intended quality level.
  1. Download the attached HEAACV1V2.mp4 file. It has 1 video track and 2 audio tracks. The audio tracks are the same but encoded using different profiles and bitrates.
  2. Play the file in any/all media players that you currently use.
  3. If the media player allows you to select the secondary audio track, test this as well.
  4. [li]Report back if any media players rejected the file. For media players that support playing multiple audio tracks, need to know if anything flat out doesn't play the secondary track.

Off the top of my head, list of software/hardware that can be tested:
  • Media Player Classic
  • VLC Media Player
  • Windows Media Player
  • Quicktime 7
  • Quicktime X
  • iPod
  • Android
  • GOM Media Player
  • SMPlayer

Any help is appreciated!

Code:
General
Complete name                    : HEAACV1V2.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media
Codec ID                         : isom
File size                        : 6.03 MiB
Duration                         : 1mn 22s
Overall bit rate                 : 610 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Baseline@L1.3
Format settings, CABAC           : No
Format settings, ReFrames        : 1 frame
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 1mn 22s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 512 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 1 223 Kbps
Width                            : 428 pixels
Height                           : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 29.970 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.166
Stream size                      : 5.05 MiB (84%)
Writing library                  : x264 core 115 r1995 c1e60b9
Encoding settings                : cabac=0 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=512 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=768 / vbv_bufsize=768 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48

Audio #1
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : HE-AAC / LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1mn 22s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 64.0 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 68.4 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz / 22.05 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 647 KiB (10%)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48

Audio #2
ID                               : 3
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : HE-AACv2 / HE-AAC / LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1mn 22s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 32.0 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 38.7 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels / 1 channel / 1 channel
Channel positions                : Front: L R / Front: C / Front: C
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz / 44.1 KHz / 22.05 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 324 KiB (5%)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-10-07 20:56:48


Thread title:  
Attachment:
Edit history:
gyth: 2011-10-09 12:04:03 pm
Media Player Classic - both work
VLC Media Player - both work
DviX Plus Player - both work
ffplay.exe - works, not sure how to change tracks
winamp - plays the first audio track, not sure how to change tracks

Windows Media Player - fails, but mine doesn't recognize mp4s at all
zplayer.exe - fails
(both work after I updated cccp)
Exoray
VLC 1.1.11 - Working fine
SMPlayer 0.62 (QT 4.4.0) - Working fine
Yes, a cucco riding the ground.
These all work fine:

WMP 9.00.00.4510
VLC 1.1.11
MPC 1.1.796.0
Zoom Player 5.50
Windows Media Player v12.0.7601.17514 - It works fine, don't know how to change to track 2 though.
Edit history:
Patrick: 2011-10-09 07:48:55 am
iPhone:
AVPlayer: both work
GoodReader: 1st track works (no support of multiple audio tracks)
Safari's video plugin does not support it (it supports many NQ and few LQ SDA videos)

I did not care about the quality difference, and I did not detect any. :-D

latest versions
Edit history:
Mystery: 2011-10-09 09:41:44 am
Both tracks work in Zoom Player 8.
HE-AAC track is slightly lower quality (listen closely on "s" sounds).
Testing seems to reveal that this is related to the bitrate. When re-encoding track 1 at a higher bitrate, the problem went away. The test encode came out at around 50 kbps.
D:
These play both tracks fine:
VLC 1.1.11 on Linux
Totem 3.0.1 w/ GStreamer 0.10.35
MPlayer SVN-r33713-4.6.1 (no idea what release that corresponds to, it's what Ubuntu's got lined up for 11.10 at the moment)

These play the first track, but I don't know of a way to switch them to the second:
Android 2.2.2 stock Gallery app
QuickTime 7.7 (Windows)

I agree with Mystery that the second track does not sound as good as the first.
In Mac OS, Quicktime X, Quicktime 7, VLC, and MPEG Streamclip all work. Only VLC seems to be able to play extra audio tracks though. The second track does sound slightly worse.
Weegee Time
MPlayer r34118 (Win32) - Plays both tracks.
RealPlayer - Plays track 1.  No ability to switch tracks.
Songbird - Plays track 1.  No ability to switch tracks.
Quicktime 7.7 - Plays both tracks.

For those of you wondering how to switch the audio tracks in Quicktime, it's under Window > Movie Properties.  Shortcut is Ctrl+J.
jesus, wasn't expecting quacktime 7 compatibility. wonder if it's stepping down or if it's actually playing it.
Edit history:
ballofsnow: 2011-10-09 06:12:35 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-10-09 06:12:05 pm
ballofsnow: 2011-10-09 06:10:30 pm
Quicktime 7 doesn't support HE-AAC-V2, but as I thought, it still decodes the HE-AAC-V1/AAC-LC portion of the same track. This is what I was hoping for, that the audio would at least play but maybe at reduced quality.

If you're curious, download the attached and compare the secondary audio track in a good media player vs Quicktime 7. Between 10 and 35 seconds it fades between left and right only audio. Without the ability to decode the PS (parametric stereo) part of HE-AAC-V2, Quicktime treats it like mono and you don't hear the left+right fade at all.


Quote from Rakuen:
For those of you wondering how to switch the audio tracks in Quicktime, it's under Window > Movie Properties.  Shortcut is Ctrl+J.

It's ironic that the media player I've hated these past years at SDA winds up being the only player (that I know of) that will allow you to play both tracks at once. So if you want to hear the in game audio and commentary track at the same time, use Quicktime 7, provided the volume of the in game audio doesn't overpower the commentary.. In hindsight it makes a lot of sense now why we had to figure out a way to disable audio track 2, back when we were figuring out the whole audio commentary thing, since QT7 does see both individual tracks, and both tracks playing at the same time is not necessarily a quirk.


Anyway, thanks to everyone for taking the time to help test this out! These are definitely acceptable results and we'll move forward with it for the next Anri version.

Attachment:
Edit history:
__sdfg: 2011-10-09 07:15:42 pm
D:
Quote from Rakuen:
For those of you wondering how to switch the audio tracks in Quicktime, it's under Window > Movie Properties.  Shortcut is Ctrl+J.

Ah, that's why I didn't see it before.  It's a Pro feature. Sad  Fortunately, I can easily work around the problem by not using QuickTime.

Thanks for pointing this out, though.  It's always seemed crazy to me that QuickTime didn't seem to support this at all.
For me, Windows Media Player always defaults to the last audio track (usually Track 2, but Track 3 if there are 3 tracks). I'm also not sure how to change audio tracks in WMP, if there is a way.

Both tracks work fine in VLC player and SMPlayer.
Edit history:
dballin: 2011-10-16 10:44:52 pm
dballin: 2011-10-16 10:44:42 pm
Balls jerky
Both audio tracks work in KMPlayer, but sometimes make it go retarded and play at like half speed even though it says it's playing full speed. Switching back and forth 1-5 times fixes the problem. I've never had that happen before haha.
Edit history:
Patrick: 2011-10-17 11:41:59 am
Dear tech experts :-),
I skimmed the thread and did not read anything about mobile device OS' other than iOS and Android.
I do not know how many portable devices do not support that HE-AACV2-stuff or how it is called, but it is unacceptable if those are not even tested i.e. do not seam to matter to you.
What are the arguments against offering an ultra-compatible NQ-version that supports 99% of all devices with a screen size of 3 inch and more? And a link on the dl pages to an intuitive converter-program for the other 1%. It is perfectly fine when it is only uploaded to archive.org.
The problem is that there will be so many different versions for different platforms.
Ultra-low quality for old phones, medium-quality for newer phones, medium-quality for tablets, low quality for tablets, Apple devices support, etc, etc.
If you go for the lowest common denominator, then people having higher-end devices will get annoyed. And yet, the reverse is true, too.
And that is why SDA is aiming to try to make the best of the situation.

Granted, I don't know if it's feasible to actually support a larger variety of qualities.
Perhaps ideas such as having a number of standard qualities available and out-sourcing encoding for other devices to the community might be possible.
Perhaps other ways might be feasible.

Anyway, that's how the situation is right now, I do believe.
Edit history:
ballofsnow: 2011-10-22 11:54:19 am
ballofsnow: 2011-10-17 05:50:14 pm
Some notes for clarification:

1. A device not supporting HE-AAC-V1 should fall back to decoding the AAC-LC portion of the track. There is loss of audio quality, but audio still plays.
2. A device supporting HE-AAC-V1 but not HE-AAC-V2 should fall back to decoding the HE-AAC-V1 portion of the track. There is loss of audio quality, but audio still plays.
3. HE-AAC-V2 will only be used on audio commentary, or anything beyond the first audio track, and encoded at 32 kbps.

An example of point #2 is in my post above with the HEAACV1V2_LRfade.mp4 attachment.

A visual guide from wikipedia:

Have It Your Way
Ballofsnow: Can you hear the audio?
Everyone else: No, we're all deaf.

For everyone that types "LOL" anywhere in their sentence, they are talking about butter. (Hint Hint: Land O' Lakes!)
Edit history:
DJS: 2011-10-18 01:10:57 pm
DJS: 2011-10-18 01:08:57 pm
torch slug since 2006
Heard it fine in WMP11 (or whatever version it is Windows 7 comes with)

EDIT: Also tried it on the homebrew media player for the wii, "WiiMC": worked fine there as well, I couldnt figure out how to change audio track though, so only the one it selected automatically I can confirm works Smiley Figured out how to change audio tracks (pressing down on the D-pad), and it works too! So both tracks work on WiiMC 1.2.0