European Marathon primary planning thread (opinions on Sweden still wanted) [locked]

2012-01-14 07:27:31 pm

Make it so.

Quote from KennyMan666:

For the record, combining them isn't happening ever. Especially not after Uyama himself judged it to be a terrible idea.

Two quick things; for a start, although agreeing/disagreeing with whether or not it's a good idea is moot right now, and I dont wanna be getting into arguing about it, I think all of us would probably appreciate knowing exactly what Mike has said with regards to this rather than that just being posted offhand?

And also, I think that that first decision is not something that anyone can make right now. While we may well decide against it, it may be that in future times the organisers of both marathons think it's a good idea and it happens. Arbitrarily stating on here that it isn't happening ever comes across as pretty arrogant, although I'm sure that's not what you meant and I dont think you were being arrogant at all, that's just how it could look.

Quote from KennyMan666:

Also, I've spoken with LLCoolDave about things. More specifically, he spoke about things we (okay, mostly me) have been doing wrong, and I agreed with pretty much all of it. We have to take a few steps back, and change focus, but I think he'll be here with the full rant eventually.

With regards to this, again, please let us know (either you or LLCoolDave) as soon as possible, as like I mentioned above negotiations are going forward up here as a possible venue and lots of people are putting some hard work in for other elements, I'm sure the last thing they want is to be told somewhere down the line that all they have been doing was for nothing.

[quote="KennyMan666"]For the record, combining them isn't happening ever. Especially not after Uyama himself judged it to be a terrible idea.
[/quote]

Two quick things; for a start, although agreeing/disagreeing with whether or not it's a good idea is moot right now, and I dont wanna be getting into arguing about it, I think all of us would probably appreciate knowing exactly what Mike has said with regards to this rather than that just being posted offhand?

And also, I think that that first decision is not something that anyone can make right now. While we may well decide against it, it may be that in future times the organisers of both marathons think it's a good idea and it happens. Arbitrarily stating on here that it [b]isn't[/b] happening ever comes across as pretty arrogant, although I'm sure that's not what you meant and I dont think you were being arrogant at all, that's just how it could look.

[quote="KennyMan666"]Also, I've spoken with LLCoolDave about things. More specifically, he spoke about things we (okay, mostly me) have been doing wrong, and I agreed with pretty much all of it. We have to take a few steps back, and change focus, but I think he'll be here with the full rant eventually.[/quote]

With regards to this, again, please let us know (either you or LLCoolDave) as soon as possible, as like I mentioned above negotiations are going forward up here as a possible venue and lots of people are putting some hard work in for other elements, I'm sure the last thing they want is to be told somewhere down the line that all they have been doing was for nothing.

KennyMan666

2012-01-14 07:34:56 pm

Precursor

Mike said it during the bonus stream, and wasn't really any more verbose than "I think that's a terrible idea" about it (at least "terrible idea" was his exact words). If he explained it further, I missed it.

A long post is coming tomorrow, I'm too tired to write it all down in a coherent way at 03:30 at night. From mine and Dave's conversation I got the impression he was going to post something soon-ish, which is why I didn't come with any more detailed explanation there. He hasn't, so I'll do the explaining if he hasn't posted when I wake up.

However, I can definitely promise that your work towards getting a possible venue will not be for nothing.

Tiberius

2012-01-14 08:07:28 pm

Make it so.

Cool, thanks for explaining.

Would be nice to get everyone together in IRC or skype maybe to discuss this properly at some point too. I'm obviously sure that Mike knows what he's talking about with marathons but if he knew the extent of the ideas we've had he might not just dismiss it out of hand. Or maybe he would lol.

Either way I agree wholeheartedly with the whole 3am thing so I'm off to bed.

KennyMan666

2012-01-15 08:30:12 am

Precursor

Alright, long post incoming here.

To get this out of the way: Even if I don't consider it all my fault, as the one who took the initiative for all this, I will take full responsibility for all the mistakes that have been made.

Like I said, me and LLCoolDave had a talk. Okay, so it wasn't as much a talk as it was a roasting of me and some of the ways I had been going about this.

Which was a good thing!

Even if I'll always stand for what I've said and will probably often defend my opinions, I like being told that I'm wrong when I actually am wrong. It's the only way I'll learn, and I'm a thickheaded fucker.

So, let's start with the primary point that was brought up.

Like I've explained several times, and as you've noticed, I have severe paranoia when it comes to finding a venue for an event. I want the locale to be found well in advance, before any other planning starts. I set the deadline for this to January 31st, seven months before the event was actually going to happen, and refused to start planning anything else before that.

Well - maybe that actually wasn't the way to go about it after all.

This line of thinking works for some things. Namely, the things of which I've been part of planning, the things where the locale really is the most important part, as that kind of event tend to be "if you build it, they will come" affairs. But this here marathon isn't like that, especially not since we're expecting participants from all around Europe - my experience comes from Swedish events. Frezy's booking of the place in Skövde would be perfect for such an event. This isn't such an event.

I was told - and have come to accept that it's true - that finding a location is secondary. The first thing - after the initial general interest check - is to make sure that we have enough runners to run games to make this a marathon of meaningful size, and the locale should be chosen from that.

Now, none of the work that has been put in so far towards finding locations has been wasted. Even if finding a location is now one step lower in priority, I still maintain that it is better to get the choices of venue as early as possible in the planning, so that we will have ample time to go over the pros and cons of each place and carefully discuss accordingly. The work that has been done already has been based on the qualities of a location that we have thought we will need, and I do believe that these will be at least reasonably close to what it turns out that we actually need, so it's not like we've been working at completely made up ideas for that. As such, don't quit looking, but it's a little less stress about it now.

I still have locale paranoia. I'll always still have locale paranoia. But in the light of all this, the deadline is moved. The preliminary new deadline for having found a location is April 30th.

I'm going to create two new threads. I have already typed them up, and when you read this line, they will probably already have been posted. Keep any general chatter about the marathon out of those.

Again, I apologize for some of the ways I've been going about this. I still wish to take an active role in the planning of this marathon, but I need to - I want to - be told when I'm doing something in a wrong way. I'm considering hiring LLCoolDave as my personal No Man.

Alright, long post incoming here.

To get this out of the way: Even if I don't consider it all my fault, as the one who took the initiative for all this, I will take full responsibility for all the mistakes that have been made.

Like I said, me and LLCoolDave had a talk. Okay, so it wasn't as much a talk as it was a roasting of me and some of the ways I had been going about this.

Which was a good thing!

Even if I'll always stand for what I've said and will probably often defend my opinions, I like being told that I'm wrong when I actually am wrong. It's the only way I'll learn, and I'm a thickheaded fucker.

So, let's start with the primary point that was brought up.

Like I've explained several times, and as you've noticed, I have severe paranoia when it comes to finding a venue for an event. I want the locale to be found well in advance, before any other planning starts. I set the deadline for this to January 31st, seven months before the event was actually going to happen, and refused to start planning anything else before that.

Well - maybe that actually wasn't the way to go about it after all.

This line of thinking works for some things. Namely, the things of which I've been part of planning, the things where the locale really [i]is[/i] the most important part, as that kind of event tend to be "if you build it, they will come" affairs. But this here marathon isn't like that, especially not since we're expecting participants from all around Europe - my experience comes from [i]Swedish[/i] events. Frezy's booking of the place in Skövde would be perfect for such an event. This isn't such an event.

I was told - and have come to accept that it's true - that finding a location is [i]secondary[/i]. The first thing - after the initial general interest check - is to make sure that we have enough runners to run games to make this a marathon of meaningful size, and the locale should be chosen from that.

Now, none of the work that has been put in so far towards finding locations has been wasted. Even if finding a location is now one step lower in priority, I still maintain that it is better to get the choices of venue as early as possible in the planning, so that we will have ample time to go over the pros and cons of each place and carefully discuss accordingly. The work that has been done already has been based on the qualities of a location that we have [i]thought[/i] we will need, and I do believe that these will be at least reasonably close to what it turns out that we [i]actually[/i] need, so it's not like we've been working at completely made up ideas for that. As such, don't quit looking, but it's a little less stress about it now.

I still have locale paranoia. I'll always still have locale paranoia. But in the light of all this, the deadline is moved. The preliminary new deadline for having found a location is [i]April 30th[/i].

I'm going to create two new threads. I have already typed them up, and when you read this line, they will probably already have been posted. Keep any general chatter about the marathon out of those.

Again, I apologize for some of the ways I've been going about this. I still wish to take an active role in the planning of this marathon, but I need to - I [i]want[/i] to - be told when I'm doing something in a wrong way. I'm considering hiring LLCoolDave as my personal No Man.

Eternalspirit

2012-01-15 09:43:43 am

I agree about the locale thing. This is completely hypothetical of course, but imagine you find a beautiful location in India, with absolutely everything you could have hoped and dreamed for, only to find out everyone coming is coming in from England, and thus most cannot even make the trip. The locale definitely doesn't matter as much as getting together a list of who wants to come and figuring out a location based on the "average" location of each runner, or something like that. There's no way in hell that there aren't many venues in Europe that don't suit your needs.

That said, there's a slight, very, very slight chance that I can come (not necessarily to do a run, but to come for the duration of the marathon), because my mom said she intends to visit her relatives in Poland this year. Poland is likely a lot closer to the marathon than Canada, and even potentially in driving distance. So, yeah.. Smiley

I also hope that a lot of the people that went to AGDQ consider coming to this one, especially people who are willing to run games, if it is within their means. Quite a few people from overseas managed to make it out to AGDQ, so I think it's fair that those of us who are able to, consider returning the favor.

I agree about the locale thing. This is completely hypothetical of course, but imagine you find a beautiful location in India, with absolutely everything you could have hoped and dreamed for, only to find out everyone coming is coming in from England, and thus most cannot even make the trip. The locale definitely doesn't matter as much as getting together a list of who wants to come and figuring out a location based on the "average" location of each runner, or something like that. There's no way in hell that there aren't [b]many[/b] venues in Europe that don't suit your needs.

That said, there's a slight, very, very slight chance that I can come (not necessarily to do a run, but to come for the duration of the marathon), because my mom said she intends to visit her relatives in Poland this year. Poland is likely a lot closer to the marathon than Canada, and even potentially in driving distance. So, yeah.. :) I also hope that a lot of the people that went to AGDQ consider coming to this one, especially people who are willing to run games, if it is within their means. Quite a few people from overseas managed to make it out to AGDQ, so I think it's fair that those of us who are able to, consider returning the favor.

roysen

Edit history:

roysen: 2012-01-15 09:54:58 am

roysen: 2012-01-15 09:54:44 am

2012-01-15 09:51:58 am

i think it would be great to have separate forums for the marathons. navigating this place could be kind of a pain when there'll be another marathon planned here soon.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2012-01-15 10:23:13 am

2012-01-15 09:58:46 am

Also, I don't know if you guys would be able to do it, but a Starcraft pro named The Little One lives in Sweden (don't know if he's there right now), and he loves doing charity events. I don't have a personal contact with him, but I'm sure that if you pleaded your case to Day9, he might be able to get a hold of him and ask him if he'd be willing to come in and do some Starcraft stuff. I think having TLO there would GREATLY help the popularity of the event, and it might have some other Starcraft pros interested in it as well. I know he's done a 24 hour marathon with Spanishiwa in the past, so it wouldn't be the first time he's done something like this. From what I know, Starcraft is highly popular in Sweden anyways because of Dreamhack, so you might get substantial local interest if the event happened in Sweden.

If you want me to attempt to see if TLO is interested, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Sorry, TLO lives in Germany, not Sweden.

Blumenriecher

2012-01-15 10:54:14 am

E=mc²

TLO used to live in Sweden in a progaming house with some other swedish pros, but as far as I know they disbanded and he went back to germany.

Eternalspirit

2012-01-15 04:39:08 pm

I think he actually lives in Korea now, and is likely preparing to participate in the GSL again, so securing him for the marathon is unlikely at best, most likely. I think if you guys wanted him, you'd have to act sooner rather than later to see if he'd have time to do it. And here's the reason why I suggested this in the first place:

From Liquipedia: On May 22, TLO streamed StarCraft for 24 hours straight in order to raise money for Doctors Without Borders. The charity marathon, dubbed "Starcraft Without Borders", proved to be an enormous success, raising over $2487 in ad revenue and earning him the nickname "Dr. Dario". The stream for this event peaked at 26,000 live viewers, overtaking the official NASL stream which was also live during this period.

Perhaps his presence wouldn't have that dramatic an effect since the event wouldn't be exclusively a Starcraft one, but that's more than double the viewers at the peak of AGDQ.. so I think it's fair to say that he would bring a considerable viewership with him. Depending on how things turn out, you could certainly have an extended Starcraft segment featuring him, not necessarily 24 hours, but something like 4-6 hours might be do-able.

But, unless he agrees to come, this discussion is obviously pointless.

I think he actually lives in Korea now, and is likely preparing to participate in the GSL again, so securing him for the marathon is unlikely at best, most likely. I think if you guys wanted him, you'd have to act sooner rather than later to see if he'd have time to do it. And here's the reason why I suggested this in the first place:

From Liquipedia: On May 22, TLO streamed StarCraft for 24 hours straight in order to raise money for Doctors Without Borders. The charity marathon, dubbed "Starcraft Without Borders", proved to be an enormous success, raising over $2487 in ad revenue and earning him the nickname "Dr. Dario". The stream for this event peaked at 26,000 live viewers, overtaking the official NASL stream which was also live during this period.

Perhaps his presence wouldn't have that dramatic an effect since the event wouldn't be exclusively a Starcraft one, but that's more than double the viewers at the peak of AGDQ.. so I think it's fair to say that he would bring a considerable viewership with him. Depending on how things turn out, you could certainly have an extended Starcraft segment featuring him, not necessarily 24 hours, but something like 4-6 hours might be do-able.

But, unless he agrees to come, this discussion is obviously pointless.

Svenne

2012-01-15 04:51:06 pm

I knew it!^^

Edit:

The name of the marathon should not have anything to do with Europe in my mind, this is SDA. Not like AGDQ is gonna become American Games Done Quick after we go Europe on our name, might turn of alot of viewers!? But I know, that perhaps are for laters?^^

Mercury.Com

2012-01-15 05:36:28 pm

Sea of Green

Well, I think the name is just temporary as a means to show "this is the European marathon". It's not like we have to actually stick with EGDQ, it's just easier to type than "the European marathon"...

KennyMan666

2012-01-15 05:40:33 pm

Precursor

I've kind of started liking "EGDQ", but right now it's indeed pretty much just used as shorthand for "the European marathon". What we're actually going to call it is future discussion and very much not a high priority.

Chrno

2012-01-16 01:11:53 am

WOW.

PAL Games Done Quick. Or does this imply all the games we are running will be PAL?

Alko

2012-01-16 03:23:28 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Could I use this to note that the location search thread is becoming clogged with semi-off-topic posts, and might warrant a cleaning to stop other people posting off-topic, claiming 'X did it before me!'? xD

I like the idea of rereading the E as epic, because it would do both: give us a reason to use the E (thereby implying Europe in some way, rendering AGDQ's 'A' to become 'American') and provide a really nice contrast with 'awesome'. 'PAL' would be some kind of restriction we'ld probably break anyway, as soon as we boot the PC (xD) …
'Classic' and 'Summer' have already been claimed, which leaves us with not so many letters left anyway xD (at least not letters that can make sense).
We could, of course open another 'Brainstorming for a proper EGDQ name!'-thread xD

Alko

2012-01-16 06:37:21 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Stating that no showers on spot are a particular issue is actually one of the few posts I would have allowed, if I were a strict mod with a bazooka =D

Tigger77

2012-01-16 06:45:00 am

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

put a deadline on the namething Roll Eyes

Alko

2012-01-16 06:45:45 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Amazingly off-topic, but fitting:
*glances outside* Hell no, if I were water now, I would'nt turn into a cup, a teapot or a bottle at all ô.o I'ld turn into a wonderful crystal *____* *glad that there finally is something that deserves the name 'winter' out there ^^*

Svenne

2012-01-16 06:55:27 am

Quote from Tigger77:

put a deadline on the namething Roll Eyes

I think Kennyman is the go to guy for everything in this thread so it's up to him!

Me and Alko like Epic Games Done Quick!

Trekhaak

Edit history:

Trekhaak: 2012-01-16 07:51:10 am

2012-01-16 07:50:35 am

Everybody's favorite monster

You call that complaining? Dont tell me you would be okay with no shower for 10 days.

KenDeep

2012-01-16 08:02:58 am

Running: RnF,Kof98, ALIEN HOMINID???

I wouldn't want to stay on the stream looking like I haven't taken a shower for 2 straight days. 10 Days are unthinkable. Especially because of the stream. Showers are absolutely important.

AdamAK

2012-01-16 08:15:39 am

Totally rad

To be honest, though this would indeed be an event held in Europe, I dislike the idea of putting "Europe" or "PAL" into the event's name. I always thought SDA formed a coherent community, where borders and continents are not important. Calling it EGDQ would make it seem as if we are trying to distantiate ourselves from our overseas friends.

KennyMan666, I've noticed you've been asking around what games could be run and how long they'd take. How much time could we currently fill with speed runs, with the runners that are dedicated to show up?

KennyMan666

2012-01-16 09:18:13 am

Precursor

Quote from AdamAK:

How much time could we currently fill with speed runs, with the runners that are dedicated to show up?

Not enough yet, that's for sure!

Edenal

2012-01-16 11:58:03 am

Hockey enthusiast

About PAL games.

If you are serious about speedrunning. PAL isn't an option. Even as an european gamer. There is no viable explanation for not getting your hands on an US/JAP system and cartridge. (Unless the game is PAL only). You can still practice and plan routes on in an emulated environment. You can even more easily stream your trial-run if you want feedback from other players. The only thing you can't do is record the actual attempts.

If you are too cheap or lazy to acquire the console and game you need. I don't think you try hard enough or want it bad enough. No one remembers the runner up only the winner. And do you really want the potential chat going: "Ey, why is he running on PAL? Weeeak" *And the trolls will come at you!*

Eternalspirit

2012-01-16 01:17:47 pm

So Kenny, what do you say about inviting TLO to the marathon to host an extended Starcraft segment?

KennyMan666

2012-01-16 01:23:48 pm

Precursor

I'm all for inviting famous-on-the-internet people to the marathon (like I said, was planning on contacting notch myself), even better if they're actually famous for being good at games so they can participate in the marathon proper with actual speedruns, but I don't think it's time to contact those people just yet.