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Numzane: 2007-05-02 04:36:10 pm
Has anything new happened with this?

I might be interested in doing the run if it has been abandoned. More on that if there seems to be a response.

Edit: Oh, btw im not very good with FRAPS and it won't work for me (the counter doesn't display etc.) Any advice?
warning: instable mindactivity
used to be a hardcore TA player back in the days

are you still working on this Lag.Com ? (sorry for giving new life to an obsolete thread)
sda loyalist
Haven't done any more than you can see on my youtube account. Just been real busy.
Edit history:
InZane: 2007-05-02 11:18:13 pm
warning: instable mindactivity
what is the name of the youtube account ?

EDIT: why didnt i just search for Lag Com in the first place Roll Eyes

same videos as on your site
Long live SF64!
I'd gladly watch people's vids, test ideas, and provide input if someone picks this up... I'm not up to running it at this point, but I've always loved the game and I'd be glad to provide input... as you can see I revived the topic right after joining SDA over a year ago a few posts up.
Edit history:
Lag.Com: 2008-05-03 04:41:30 pm
sda loyalist
Lag.Com casts 'true resurrection'

Alrighty, let's get this show on the road. I'm running them again and using the ingame timer instead; I feel this gives a more accurate representation of how fast the run was done (also, the StarCraft runs are done with it too). I've re-ran the first three levels on Hard to show ingame time with '+clock'. Note that mission 3 is much more annoying on Hard because you only have 2 Spiders. This necessitates waiting for a bit before sending them down, so this mission is a couple of seconds slower than my previous run on Easy.

Mission 1 - Mission 2 - Mission 3

I'm now working on a good way to do mission 4. This may take longer, as the enemy has many more units, while I only have a couple. Not that my strategy was optimal last time, but I haven't come up with any improvements. I'm open to ideas!

Here's a map of Mission 4, rendered by my own software. That's plenty of stuff to kill. A Flash rush is probably best, but I'm interested to see if anybody else has cooler plans.
Edit history:
Pendrokar: 2008-05-03 05:29:53 pm
Well thats much better than a speedrun with x10 speed!
EDIT: Oh wait it was never like that! Don't know why I though of it like that!  Huh?
Edit history:
Psonar: 2008-05-06 03:59:39 am
Long live SF64!
Sweet - I actually rewatched your videos only a week or two ago and started playing again... I thought your flash rush strategy for mission 4 was a pretty good one.

The use of flash tanks is just one part of the equation... and I think it's solid because they can cover the map quicker, and in large numbers they are very effective since they can provide sufficient firepower while not being easily destroyed since there are so many of them.  Any small group, no matter how powerful has the potential to be swarmed by the AI it seems, but with a large group, the AI is only successful in taking out a few of your units, while you have the most firepower and mobility.

That's just some totally fabricated philosophy on the strength of sheer numbers in Total Annihilation, but it seems to hold true, especially given that the units don't do an efficient job covering terrain as a group... if its all 1 unit type, that doesn't matter, but with a balanced team, the heavy firepower seems to show up late and all of your little guys get blown up by the missiles and mortars from the big guys who are lagging behind the action.  The flash attack method is quick, inexpensive and effective for tracking down and eliminating the far-flung Core armies on the 4th mission. (In my humble opinion anyway)

On a final note... can you explain the software used to generate your fancy picture there.... is it showing the level setup based on the game's files and the level map?  It looks like you'd need the starting coordinates and movement orders for all of the units to make that diagram, which is pretty awesome to say the least!  So... how's it work? Cheesy


Edit: Oh yeah... to complete the thought I started by saying flash tanks are part of the equation... the other part of the equation is where to send them and when to optimize killing all the core units.  The only thing I can think to really optimize it beyond what I can remember from the video would be to micro-manage further using multiple small squads to intercept the individual groups of enemies, but I don't know that that would be any quicker, but I was thinking the least overkill possible on each attack would be the most effective, except of course that overkill gets the job done fast, so yeah, swarming is probably just as good in that case.  I don't know... I just thought I'd offer up some thoughts.
Edit history:
Lag.Com: 2008-05-06 01:16:42 pm
sda loyalist
I agree totally about the overkill thing, it's just the best way to get the job done. I may try it with Peewees instead, but they are so fragile. I'll do a few more tries today.

The program needs the OTA (mission data) and TNT (map data) files for the map (there can also be a TDF that contains unit-restrictions). It rips out all the tile graphics and assembles them into the map TA knows, then resizes it (the actual maps are 4 times bigger than that picture. Then yeah, it just plots a circle for each unit, and tries to work out what the 'InitialOrder' field means. Light grey lines are patrol, dark grey lines are movement.

Here's a pic of mission 5 on Hard. You can see the Galactic Gate at the lower left that I need to steal, but in the classic TA way, I also have to destroy everything. Also, notice that none of the enemies' movement goes anywhere near my starting location. It might be possible to build a small Flash-producing base, then just walk my commander through the ocean and d-gun the entire island, and capture the gate. While he's doing that, my Flashes could go find all the enemies. I'd need something else to take out those Storms on the hills though. (Hills of Storm, haha)

Still not allowed to build Aircraft Plants on that mission, so... I guess the Commander has to get wet. Smiley
sda loyalist
I got bored of trying different strategies for Mission 4 and did Mission 15 instead. You'll see why. Smiley
Edit history:
Psonar: 2008-05-14 01:08:54 am
Long live SF64!
Dang, that's awesome!  Close call there for the commander - gotta love post-end-of-mission deaths.

... if only the other missions had such straightforward objectives...

hmm aparently we can attach files now in the forum... could come in handy for sharing short videos.

let's test it out...

edit:
hmm it attached the file with the url of:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/woohoo.txt

so, if I try to attach a different file of the same name somewhere else, what would happen? Maybe I'll test that too...
Edit history:
Psonar: 2008-05-14 01:11:32 am
Long live SF64!
Testing attachments...

The file I'm attaching to this post has different text but the same name...

edit: ahah! Renames it with a three digit numeric index, so as long as there aren't 1000+ files of the same name, the universe shouldn't implode...
What about the Krogoth Encounter mission? Is anyone trying to run it? I tried it today just for fun and see if there's any general tactics that could speed up the mission. My Comm was killed twice (by the first wave of Krogoths), but i finally completed the mission in about 5 hours. Since i'm not a super-insane player of TA, I think this time could be cut off by 1 or maybe 2 hours. Here are some general thoughts about the mission:

-The hardest part, in my opinion, is when the first two Korgoths begin their attack (this happens between 30 mins and 1 hour after you start the game). Even if you DT yourself in, the Korgoths missiles can still destroy stuff with no trouble.
-Nukes are pretty much useless against the Krogoths since it takes about 2 or 3 close impacts to destroy the guy and it’s kind of hard to shoot accurately, since almost all of the Krogoths are patrolling.
-The two gantries can be destroyed with a squadron of 5-10 thunders each

That’s about all what I’ve got so far. I’ll try to redo the mission in a shorter time and find other tips.  Smiley
Will be glad to see a Krogoth speedrun here too, keep up.
DS Dictator
Seeing this makes me to create a video playthrough of all of the official missions (suprisenly only theses Mission speedruns done by LAG.com are on Youtube)
In the last set of the original Core missions you had to capture a Big Bertha. Does that one seem easier or harder than Arm Mission 15?
I dare any one doing the Hyrid (Pure Water) Worlds (from the Core Contingency in either Arm or Core missions 1, 2 or 3. That would be a nightmare and a half.
sda loyalist
Capturing is usually pretty annoying; you have to get into the territory without an entire army trying to kill your Commander, and you have to sit right next to the building capturing it, which takes more time the more hit points the unit has. For small things like radars it takes a matter of seconds, but a Bertha would take a while. I only narrowly pull off the advanced radar steal on ARM15. Might need to bring along an extra army for the Core one.
Great work thus far! I would love to see TA being run by you.  Wink Haven`t been playing this for quite some time now. Maybe I should get back to it sometime soon...

Ah well. Good luck with this! ARM 4 ever!!  Smiley
DS Dictator
Quote from Lag.Com:
a Bertha would take a while. I only narrowly pull off the advanced radar steal on ARM15. Might need to bring along an extra army for the Core one.


*Facepalms himself* I forgot about the capture time as it varies between units. On that mission you can only build Solar Collectors and depending on your other CORE units you might need to capture some simple ARM units to make them as bait when reaching to the other side.

Back in 1998 we (me and my brother) found a bug (If it is one) where you can control the enemy units in Campaign. In ARM mission 25 most of the units' status were "Waiting to be attacked" in other words when they get hit they actually respond. But now it's 2008 I'm sure that a Fan site has covered everything on each mission.
Edit history:
Greenalink: 2008-08-29 02:40:49 pm
DS Dictator
So I played the game again after 2 years and I did Core Mission 15 (Capture the Big Bertha and destroy ARM Annihilator)
It's actually easier than it looks I captured the Bertha and guessing where the Annihilator was I click where it should attack and it only took 2 shots to destroy it. There isn't any threating units that came in attacking your base. Just a simple Capture rush with good guess aiming for a quick win. It was done on easy though.

Edit: On Hard the Sentinels replace the L.L.Ts and there are 2 Berthas now. One of them aims at your base whilst the other is "Waiting to be Attacked".
sda loyalist
If you're up for helping me out and testing strategies, that's cool. I won't be able to finish this run without some serious help.
How are people recording videos of Total Annihilation? Whenever I try using FRAPS to do so, it lags it down to 1 FPS. I've got a 2GHz PC, which isn't the best, but it's not slow enough to be doing this, especially when it will record other, newer games just fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Twilight
Try using Camtasia, I believe Lag.Com is using that.
sda loyalist
I'm using FRAPS, so, uh... heh. Smiley Check things like hard drive defragmented, record at 640x480, usual stuff.
How is the speed runs going for TA? If you use SY's patch then you could record single-player games as demo files...that way the files are smaller to download (send to the verifiers)... and using demos also reveals all commands used (incase someone is unfair).

Anyway.. problem is SY's patch is unofficial .. and it adds many extra short-cut key binds (like a drawing system... and dragon teeth wall builder).

http://tauniverse.com/ & http://tadrs.tauniverse.com/ communities heavily supports the SY's patch and claim it necessary and virtually official patch.


PS: yes, SY's patch mainly records multiplayer games... but I was told it's possible to play single player missions in a multiplayer mode by some tweaking files.... again this is a though if people lags with recording capture software.
sda loyalist
Yeah, I've heard of this patch and have used it before, but as it's unofficial I'm not going to use it for this run.

I'm afraid I haven't done much on this run since the last time I posted. I restarted the run on Hard difficulty and have since redone the first 3 levels and one later one which is also very simple. I've been trying to come up with a better strategy for level 4, and have been kinda stuck.

Currently I'm going Mill, Mill, Lab, Mine, Mill, Mine then going north to clear up the random guys and build more Mines to keep output on the Lab full. I build Flashes until I've got shitloads then ram them into the base, essentially. There's a little more to it than that.