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It's a good idea by virtue of being my idea.
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
I was doing some practice runs on stream when this happened.



Hopefully I'll have a run that's good enough to post soon, when I'm not discovering incredible new ways to instantaneously kill my runs Tongue
You tripped over a worker bot. That's brilliant! I'm in awe...

Socrates: why don't you ever do anything interesting like that?
Always move forward, never sleep.
Haha, yeah, those frogbeasts lingering around can be a pain sometimes (even death :P).

Speaking of Sabotage, I started grabbing a lot more of the metal plates from the first storage room and use them like frogbeasting.  Even though technically only 2 are needed, since you can pick them back up, I like to grab a lot more because when I throw them in the elevator shafts, I'm unable to pick them up since they're on a moving platform, so I can easily just leave them there.  That also allows me to skip getting the frogbeast egg in the first room.  One thing that the plates don't do is give you a bit of a boost like the frogbeasts can do, so I save the eggs for the more open areas.
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-11 06:24:07 pm
OneginIII: 2015-09-11 06:22:15 pm
OneginIII: 2015-09-11 06:19:46 pm
twitch.tv/oneginiii
Hello everyone!

So I recently got the steam version of this game and I'm interested in running any%. I have a few questions though. Firstly is there a video of a run I could use to learn the latest/fastest strats. Second, what version of the game you guys use for runs. My preferred setup would be to run the steam version, but with the unofficial patch 1.23. The steam version comes with some older version of DDFix, which is a pain to run for a streaming setup where as the 1.23 patch can be run smoothly in windowed mode. There is just one catch, and that is that you need to replace the missions files the Tafferpatcher installs with the original steam version mission files (all the missX.mis and missX.osm files) for some things like opening the steel door in the bank level with fire arrow + mine (which only works on the steam/gog version NOT on retail).

Edit: TafferPatcher messes with the mission files. Install the 1.23 patch manually.

So TL:DR where can I find the best video to learn the game with. And is steam version + 1.23 good to run this game.
Hello and welcome!

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Thief_2:_The_Metal_Age

That also has the "additional resources" section that probably has Socrates' YouTube on it with his PB/WR videos. The best way to do things is (after reading the guide) is to try things out for yourself and make sure you understand how to perform all the tricks mentioned in the guide. That way you'll be as equipped (and probably more so) than Socrates to do wicked runs.

The reason the "any%" category page is marked red is because Socrates has still not created it nor written anything there.

The Guide also has some ideas for categories which will certainly be accepted. You should bring up in this thread if you find any new tricks or want to run a category other than those listed. The guide doesn't have Socrates' comments on the any% runs because he's too lazy for that.

AS FOR versions: you can't do anything to the package as it comes off Steam/GOG. You CAN run any version previously offered by those services (as I understand) but you certainly can't manually edit the contents. I hope Socrates or someone will show up to tell you how they make their game run. I don't really get all that compatibility stuff, but I know any external modification needs to be approved by admins to be fully legit. However, if the other runners are doing it too to make the game playable or recordable, no-one's going to call you out for it, but you have to be careful you're not introducing subtle gameplay changes. To my knowledge (see the version differences section) there should be no gameplay differences since v. 1.19.

Socrates: can't you (or someone) write something in the guide to put a rest to the versions question?
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-11 06:14:40 pm
OneginIII: 2015-09-11 06:13:05 pm
twitch.tv/oneginiii
Thanks LotBlind Smiley

After looking at Socrates PB on YouTube to learn the run, I think he is using at least 1.19, which, I don't know about GOG, but at least it's not what comes with the steam version. Patch 1.18 is the final official patch released by Looking Glass. 1.19 and onward are NOT made by the developers, but by an unknown group of fans. Same goes for DDFix, which is what comes default with the steam version, it is also a fan made patch that they are just using for compatibility with modern systems. I guess using the 1.19 patch might not modify the mission files, so I can just use that and not 1.23 + replacing the mission files. It shouldn't make a difference as far as I know. I guess I'm just trying to say that all of the releases besides retail disks are modified with unofficial patches. I have the original disks for this game, but can't use those for runs since at least the bank mission metal door trick doesn't work.

Edit: Seems it's TafferPatcher that messes with the mission files, so I can just install 1.23 or any of the NewDark patches manually and be fine.

I'd like to point out that I'm going to be running this game just for times on speedrun.com, not SDA submitting. So I'm not that concerned about the "originality" of my game for verification, just that you'll eventually accept my times on the leaderboards.
Yes, we know they're fan patches, but since an official vendor assumed them, they're okay. Like I said, anything that came out of GOG or Steam is okay.

The bank mission vault trick only works in v. 1.07. I dunno what you're talking about.

What do you mean by "originality"?? Also why would you not submit record runs?
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-12 04:14:00 pm
OneginIII: 2015-09-12 04:11:51 pm
twitch.tv/oneginiii
Like I said, I don't know about the GOG version, but my steam version did not come with 1.19-1.23 patch. I'm pretty sure Socrates is using at least 1.19, so its not the vanilla steam version. The vanilla steam version comes with an older version of DDFix that doesn't even support widescreen resolutions (without an additional widescreen mod). I think I'll be running this game with the steam version manually patched with 1.23, no other modifications. When I have time, I want to get to just running non-seriously until I get good.

With the bank door thing I meant the normal metal door at the start of the mission that you open with fire arrow and mine, not the vault door. Opening that did not work in any configuration I tried with the retail disks. I read somewhere that it works on the GOG version, so I assumed it works on the steam version and went with that. I tried learning this game earlier, but got stuck there because I couldn't open that metal door like the runner did in the PB video I was following along.

As for SDA submissions. I'm not that interested in getting a run on the site, even a record. I'm more of a fan of just streaming, getting times on speedrun.com and uploading runs to YouTube for various reasons. With originality I mean SDA:s rules about having an unmodified/original version of the game. I don't need to pass SDA verification, just that my times can be on speedrun.com.

Sorry for writing such confusing messages. I just want to make sure that you'll accept the times I eventually get on speedrun.com leaderboards Smiley
I see about the bank outside doors then. Yeah I remember Soc saying something about that. I'm sure he'll come round to read this stuff when he has the time. I only play 1.07 myself.

I also haven't had anything to do with speedrun.com but I'm sure we can verify your times (I'm still not sure what motivates you Smiley ). Basically just be open about everything you did and no-one will hang you by the balls a lot. Also if you DO find something new we'd very much appreciate if you mentioned it here or wrote about it in the guide, which is easy to edit.

Do they accept leaderboard times if there are runs that are faster? I.e. don't you still have to beat Socrates? He never submitted but has done ILs and they're fairly solid for what they are.
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-13 12:31:33 pm
twitch.tv/oneginiii
Yeah I'll definitely post here if I find something. I found the door hitting trick in the first mission way back. Not sure if that was found by someone else before/later, but I definitely should have posted that here.

For speedrun.com you can add any time you get. Games like Mirror's Edge with IL runs also have a separate leaderboard for each level.
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
Hi OneginIII, welcome to the Thief II SDA community! As far as which version to run, it's mostly about personal preference. As Lot said, it's important to make sure that your version is legit. If you look back in the forum a bit, I uploaded a little clip on Ambush where I got a very fast time because of an unusual exit trigger. We found out that was the result of a fan-made resource pack fix which was included with and installed via Tafferpatcher. So while Tafferpatcher allows you to keep official versions in order, no other outside patches or fixes are allowed besides the aforementioned Steam/GoG accepted versions.

Besides that, each version has its unique quirks and it's worth running each at least once. You can gain time using different routes in certain versions but lose time elsewhere. I run 1.21 myself. The earlier versions allow for some fun tricks like the bank vault in 1.07, but the mantling is too fickle for me. Mostly it's just important to disclose which version you use. I know Hazzmatt is putting together a 100% run and versions probably make a big difference there.
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-13 04:13:40 pm
twitch.tv/oneginiii
Thanks jake Smiley

I'll be running steam version with 1.23 installed manually, no other modifications. Tafferpatcher seems to do something to the mission files, even though you select "Only Install 1.23", so it's better to just download 1.23 from ttlg forums and extract it to your thief 2 folder.
Always move forward, never sleep.
Welcome, Onegin!  You're the person I took the Jenivere door trick from a few years ago! Cheesy

Yeah, I'm either on 1.21 (PC) or 1.23 (Laptop), and a page or two ago, we found out what was causing metal doors to not be blown open, which is the Complete Resource Fix Pack 1.1e that is installed with a full install of Tafferpatcher.  I had always done bare installs with that patch earlier, but did a full on my laptop once, and wondered why blowing open doors worked on my PC, but not laptop.  After Jake showed the earlier exit on Ambush!, I played around with each thing with Tafferpatcher, and found it was that resource pack.

Anyway, pretty much what Lot and Jake have already said.  Pretty much all the IL runs I have on my YouTube channel are basically strats used in an SS run, so some are short on the cash.  Feel free to ask any questions as well.  Everything I come up with or find I post here, and there are updates to the thread every now and again.  Definitely glad to see more people running the game! Smiley
twitch.tv/oneginiii
I think I figured out some stuff about Tafferpatcher and NewDark. I did a run and I got stuck in Framed, not being able to mantle the lamp in front of the station front door. I had changed my Thief 2 installation after learning the run, so I decided to do some testing with running Tafferpatcher and installing NewDark just by using a zip file from ttlg forums.

When you install Tafferpatcher on an unmodified steam installation of Thief 2, the installer also unnecessarily installs 1.18 (steam version is 1.18 by default). This causes the steam specific mission files (.mis and .osm) to be replaced with the retail version of those same files. That causes fire arrow and mine combination to not work on metal doors, like they do in the default steam installation. If you copy the mission files somewhere safe from Tafferpatchers patching, and put them back after running the patch, the metal door trick works.

Also, when you install NewDark with Tafferpatcher the patch changes the cam_ext.cfg file to uncomment (and enable) the line for "new_mantle". This seems to be a NewDark feature intended to address the poor mantling in the original versions of the game. The zip file for any version of NewDark has this line commented (and disabled) by default. Without the new mantling code enabled I was unable to do several mantlings necessary for the speedrun. I already mentioned the one in Framed, and others I found were difficult/impossible to mantle were the railings in the large room with the exhibition in Masks.

My recommendation is that you can install NewDark manually or with Tafferpatcher or in any other way, but if you have "new_mantle" enabled, you need to state so in the comments for your run or something. The new mantling code in NewDark drastically changes the gameplay and thus warrants for a whole seperate caregory in my opinion. I'll personally be running 1.23 with "new_mantle" enabled, because it allows for the fastest strats.
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
I use a tafferpatcher-installed version 1.21, so it has 1.18 autochecked on my version as well. I can open metal doors with fire arrows or a fire arrow/mine combo. When Socrates and I were messing around with tafferpatcher we found that Complete Resource Fix Pack 1.1e was not only the cause of the fast exit on Ambush, but it also prevented the firemine trick with metal doors. Seeing as it's disallowed, I'd just start over and do a fresh install to make sure that it isn't installed by accident. As far as I know that's the only way that trick doesn't work.

I doubt you'll find anyone running the game without new mantling unless they're specifically running an older version. In general, we have decided that the rules are to just run the fastest version, of course excluding any fan-made addons. Newdark is accepted as an official addon, so anything in cam_ext.cfg is fair game.
Always move forward, never sleep.
Quote from jakeplissken:
I use a tafferpatcher-installed version 1.21, so it has 1.18 autochecked on my version as well. I can open metal doors with fire arrows or a fire arrow/mine combo. When Socrates and I were messing around with tafferpatcher we found that Complete Resource Fix Pack 1.1e was not only the cause of the fast exit on Ambush, but it also prevented the firemine trick with metal doors. Seeing as it's disallowed, I'd just start over and do a fresh install to make sure that it isn't installed by accident. As far as I know that's the only way that trick doesn't work.

I doubt you'll find anyone running the game without new mantling unless they're specifically running an older version. In general, we have decided that the rules are to just run the fastest version, of course excluding any fan-made addons. Newdark is accepted as an official addon, so anything in cam_ext.cfg is fair game.


Pretty much stole the words out of my mouth. Smiley
twitch.tv/oneginiii
I'm certain I'm selecting to only install 1.23 with Tafferpatcher. Maybe older versions of Tafferpatcher that install 1.21 instead do something differently. I can see how a resource fix pack would mess with the doors considering it probably changes some of the door models properties. If the modifications were outside the mission files though, the copy pasting thing I described wouldn't help, and it does, so I think it's related to the mission files somehow.

Oh well... I'm glad I got it figured out so that at least I can finally run the game properly Smiley
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
Yeah, my version of Tafferpatcher only goes up to version 1.21 so it is an older version. I haven't used 1.23 extensively but I ran into trouble getting it to work on Twitch, and my computer is too new to run the older versions and even getting 1.18 to work is difficult. I need to get a Windows XP box to play around with those older versions.
I don't think you can be selective with what you install... it should look as it came out the package, but then if it gives you options about that stuff... It's starting to sound a bit convoluted. I can also confirm that v. 1.18 specifically allows all the tricks apart from NewDark mantling and physics, which are part of patch 1.19 and later.

But basically you shouldn't have trouble executing tricks. In the guide, I've marked separately the stuff (e.g. door transgressions) that we haven't been able to do in versions post 1.18. I guess if you're not sure you've got it right (the main thing is you're not accidentally left with something useful the others can't do) you just upload some videos and we'll check them and those running the version you're running (like I said it's basically either OldDark or NewDark with some changes between .07 and .18 as well) can confirm it's doable for them too.
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
Also these tricks aren't really intuitive or easy. Most of the big skips took me at least 20-30 minutes of practice before I could get them consistently. The perimeter wall in Framed is difficult because your positioning has to be just right and you have to strafejump towards it and then look directly at it at just the right angle. If it's not perfect you'll miss it entirely even if you thought you were going to get it, and sometimes Garrett will start to mantle and then just fall down. The other one is the gate trick in Soulforge which gives you no visual cues whatsoever as to if you are doing it right. As far as we know, none of these are version specific (and the skip in Trail of Blood is purely mechanical so that wouldn't be either). If you find that they are, feel free to add them to the guide, we'd like to know.
Edit history:
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:50:27 am
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:49:21 am
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:46:36 am
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:42:04 am
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:24:26 am
OneginIII: 2015-09-19 05:21:59 am
twitch.tv/oneginiii
I'm referring to mantling the lamp next to the watcher (not the old strat of climbing on top of the building, if thats what you are talking about). I don't know whether it works in older versions, but its at least a lot easier with NewDark mantling. There is something going on when you try a trick 10 times without success, and then change one setting and suddenly you get it first try Tongue

I haven't had a lot of difficulty with any particular trick besides the Trail of Blood jump though. From the looks of things my game runs identically to the version at least Socrates is using in his videos.

Also, I'm not using Tafferpatcher anymore. Makes no sense since I only need 1.23, just easier to download it from http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145511
Yes, newdark has better mantling.
Edit history:
jakeplissken: 2015-09-23 06:34:14 pm
jakeplissken: 2015-09-22 12:13:55 am
jakeplissken: 2015-09-22 12:11:24 am
jakeplissken: 2015-09-22 12:11:05 am
jakeplissken: 2015-09-21 10:17:24 pm
I'm an Olympic Straferunner
I didn't have much time this week so I banged out some clumsy IL's. This is the first one. Nothing new here, just trying to execute the jump and the whole vault business faster. There are some blatant mistakes here too. I think a 1:45 is attainable with not too much difficulty.

So what you're saying is Socrates' time was terrible? I'm reeeaaalll surpriiseed...

You're not doing the gate boost. At the very end I wonder if you could leanjump to trigger the exit a tiny bit faster. Otherwise just movement optimization I guess. GJ!