Thief 2: The Metal Age

2013-08-08 12:11:51 pm

Yarr

Quote from LotBlind:

Looks like a hacked version of the level for demonstrating that trick...

The objectives of Masks get messed up when you edit user.cfg to make Masks the first level. If you want to play on Masks and don't have a savegame for it, I suggest editing user.cfg to start at Casing the Joint and then using Ctrl-Shift-Alt-End to complete the mission and move on to Masks.

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-10 11:40:24 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

Here's what I have for the bank. A little sloppy at times, but I'll keep it for now. Tongue

First City Bank and Trust

Description:

Starting off, I chuck a mine at the door and hit it with a fire arrow to blow it open. I try to quickly run to the basement, dropping mines on the combat bot in hopes of destroying it so my way back is easier. The random behavior of the guards left one standing in the doorway, costing me about a second or two... or 3. So I blow by his dumb ass and jump down into the basement. I think hitting the slope at the bottom off of a jump gives you a bit of a boost, but not sure. Either way, it doesn't lose any time.

Running through the basement is pretty straight forward, and I'm not sure if jumping over the metal plates helps with the run back, but it's fun to do anyways. I hesitated for a fraction of a second after entering the combination to the vault lock. The run back through the basement was really good, as there weren't any combat bots in the halls; sometimes there are 2. I also blinded only myself since the guard looked away at the last second. That little jump I do exiting the basement - I'm not sure if that's a time saver or not, but I know running up those slopes can make you slow down.

The rest of the level isn't bad either, though I could have done better with the jump onto the ladder inside of the vault since it wanted to latch me onto the lamp. I accidentally dropped the health potion instead of drinking it, whoops.

With mistakes considered, there is definitely room for improvement. Being my personal best so far on this mission motivates to do better. For now, however, it's on to Blackmail.

Here's what I have for the bank.  A little sloppy at times, but I'll keep it for now. :P

First City Bank and Trust
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPLLmyK2y2Q[/url]

Description:
[hidden]Starting off, I chuck a mine at the door and hit it with a fire arrow to blow it open.  I try to quickly run to the basement, dropping mines on the combat bot in hopes of destroying it so my way back is easier.  The random behavior of the guards left one standing in the doorway, costing me about a second or two... or 3.  So I blow by his dumb ass and jump down into the basement.  I think hitting the slope at the bottom off of a jump gives you a bit of a boost, but not sure.  Either way, it doesn't lose any time.

Running through the basement is pretty straight forward, and I'm not sure if jumping over the metal plates helps with the run back, but it's fun to do anyways.  I hesitated for a fraction of a second after entering the combination to the vault lock.  The run back through the basement was really good, as there weren't any combat bots in the halls; sometimes there are 2.  I also blinded only myself since the guard looked away at the last second.  That little jump I do exiting the basement - I'm not sure if that's a time saver or not, but I know running up those slopes can make you slow down.

The rest of the level isn't bad either, though I could have done better with the jump onto the ladder inside of the vault since it wanted to latch me onto the lamp.  I accidentally dropped the health potion instead of drinking it, whoops.

With mistakes considered, there is definitely room for improvement.  Being my personal best so far on this mission motivates to do better.  For now, however, it's on to Blackmail.[/hidden][/hidden]

LotBlind

2013-08-11 07:27:31 am

So first of all, let's clarify this... You're both doing the SS category?

So I just read in an article about the Dark Engine that indeed the bunny hopping bug was removed in the later games.

First City:
-falling on a ramp does give you a boost, this is evident in T1 (Into the Maw for instance) so I have to think it's the same for T2
-I like the jump and mantle up from the basement, but maybe just analyse your recordings after several tries using different methods if you're not sure what's fastest. Is it possible to jump a little bit earlier to get to the right height just as you reach the edge? Also did you try just jumping up the ramp (at least from each landing) instead of running?

but yeah it looks pretty good already. maybe there's more than one possible item configuration though, maybe it's also possible to buy lots of flash bombs and try to blind your way through the guards and combat bot.

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-11 09:23:36 pm

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-11 09:21:18 pm

2013-08-11 09:15:48 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

I'm going for the SS, yeah, which can make some missions different and trickier due to lack of funds, which I'm finding out with Tracing the Courier and Trail of Blood. I also read that the bunny hopping was taken out and only works for Thief: TDP; I'm not sure if it's still in for Gold.

The jump onto the ledge out of the basement can be a bit tricky, it seems. Sometimes, if I'm angled wrong, I won't jump at all, probably because I'm going down the ramp, and it just doesn't want me to jump. I haven't been able to get on the ledge right from the bottom, but it's something I can try to work on more and see if there are any angles that I can snag the ledge on. I can probably jump over the first ramp, but the second one is longer, so I don't know if it's a time saver or not. I'll go back and refine it after I'm through all the missions.

I start with 3 flashbombs and 3 mines, so I could probably not buy the extra mine and grab a flashbomb instead; the mines can also be a nasty surprise when I come back if they haven't gone off.

I was broke after robbing a bank, so I decided to walk on over to the Sherrif's house without anything in my pocket for Blackmail.

Blackmail

Description:

It took some tweaking to get a route down for this mission, and I might go over it again, but for now, I'm happy with the results. The first hurdle was getting to the second floor quickly without the help of mines or fire arrows, so I ran around the outside for a while and realized that I had to lift it from the guard. I figured out that the guy walks through the kitchen at a certain time, so I kill some time by looting the houses right at the start before scaling the wall and crawling into the basement (which wouldn't let me in, for some reason, but no matter). I could grab the gas mine in a chest near the entrance, but I haven't found a good use for it yet. So I run through the basement, grabbing the bottle of booze before heading up the stairs to wait for the guard, which should only be a few seconds, grab the gear off of his belt, and take off to the left, jumping onto the table to grab the goods, and continue towards the gear door.

I then rush up the stairs, around the right past the guards, grabbing loot on the way until the parlor. I grab the coins off the tables and the booze on the counter. Sometimes, I can lift Benny's purse, which can save time in the next room, and sometimes there are too many guards by the time I get over to him, and he's alerted to my presence. It seems that this time, he was alerted, so I needed to grab the second vase in the pool room to fill my loot quota.

So after grabbing the silver gear in the pool, I head to the third floor. Truat's been killed! Oh my stars! Sometimes that "innocent" dude in the hallway can get in the way, but luckily for me, he wasn't a problem. I try to grab the keys before the gear so I don't have to scroll through my inventory for it while trying to escape. I was having some door issues, but managed to get down and into the main hall. I don't know why I jumped over the rail, probably to see if that was any quicker, but it doesn't seem like it.

I'm not sure why that gate was closed, when I opened it earlier while I scaled the wall, but a part of me thinks that it was due to the alarm inside of the house. Sometimes the alarm will go off while I'm climbing the rope, and I'll open the gate while it's going off, and the door will be open when I get back, leading me to think that it will only shut on the first alarm? Not sure. Anyways, it was a close call at the end there, and I can definitely get a better time.

Points to improve upon:

-I've tested in a run I just did about 10 minutes ago, where after I loot the guy's house in the beginning, I jump out that window and over the wall to loot his neighbor for an extra 25, I think. The only thing this helps with is if I don't snag Benny's purse. I can also get to the guard with the gear in time as well, so might as well take the chance.
-Get into the basement without snagging; not sure what the problem was there.
-After stealing the gear from the guard and looting the table, I keep going in that same direction and all the way around to the gear door, when I could have just turned left, jumped off the table and taken a right in the hallway where it's there. In the previously mentioned run I did, it seemed faster. The total time of the run was 5 seconds faster, but I also saved some time by not having to grab that other vase in the pool room.
-I probably don't need to close the silver gear door after I go through.
-Remember which ways doors open. I hesitated on a few that swung out that I could have kept running through, and got a couple caught on myself as I tried to rush.
-Don't mantle over the railing in the entrance hall, as I take damage when falling, and is probably slower anyways.
-Figure out what triggers the main gate closing, since I didn't hear any alarms go off.

Time to work on Tracing the Courier and Trail of Blood - halfway done.

I'm going for the SS, yeah, which can make some missions different and trickier due to lack of funds, which I'm finding out with Tracing the Courier and Trail of Blood.  I also read that the bunny hopping was taken out and only works for Thief: TDP; I'm not sure if it's still in for Gold.

The jump onto the ledge out of the basement can be a bit tricky, it seems.  Sometimes, if I'm angled wrong, I won't jump at all, probably because I'm going down the ramp, and it just doesn't want me to jump.  I haven't been able to get on the ledge right from the bottom, but it's something I can try to work on more and see if there are any angles that I can snag the ledge on.  I can probably jump over the first ramp, but the second one is longer, so I don't know if it's a time saver or not.  I'll go back and refine it after I'm through all the missions.

I start with 3 flashbombs and 3 mines, so I could probably not buy the extra mine and grab a flashbomb instead; the mines can also be a nasty surprise when I come back if they haven't gone off.

I was broke after robbing a bank, so I decided to walk on over to the Sherrif's house without anything in my pocket for Blackmail.

Blackmail
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-6sL8EY6ec[/url]

Description:
[hidden]It took some tweaking to get a route down for this mission, and I might go over it again, but for now, I'm happy with the results.  The first hurdle was getting to the second floor quickly without the help of mines or fire arrows, so I ran around the outside for a while and realized that I had to lift it from the guard.  I figured out that the guy walks through the kitchen at a certain time, so I kill some time by looting the houses right at the start before scaling the wall and crawling into the basement (which wouldn't let me in, for some reason, but no matter).  I could grab the gas mine in a chest near the entrance, but I haven't found a good use for it yet.  So I run through the basement, grabbing the bottle of booze before heading up the stairs to wait for the guard, which should only be a few seconds, grab the gear off of his belt, and take off to the left, jumping onto the table to grab the goods, and continue towards the gear door.

I then rush up the stairs, around the right past the guards, grabbing loot on the way until the parlor.  I grab the coins off the tables and the booze on the counter.  Sometimes, I can lift Benny's purse, which can save time in the next room, and sometimes there are too many guards by the time I get over to him, and he's alerted to my presence.  It seems that this time, he was alerted, so I needed to grab the second vase in the pool room to fill my loot quota.

So after grabbing the silver gear in the pool, I head to the third floor.  Truat's been killed!  Oh my stars!  Sometimes that "innocent" dude in the hallway can get in the way, but luckily for me, he wasn't a problem.  I try to grab the keys before the gear so I don't have to scroll through my inventory for it while trying to escape.  I was having some door issues, but managed to get down and into the main hall.  I don't know why I jumped over the rail, probably to see if that was any quicker, but it doesn't seem like it.

I'm not sure why that gate was closed, when I opened it earlier while I scaled the wall, but a part of me thinks that it was due to the alarm inside of the house.  Sometimes the alarm will go off while I'm climbing the rope, and I'll open the gate while it's going off, and the door will be open when I get back, leading me to think that it will only shut on the first alarm?  Not sure.  Anyways, it was a close call at the end there, and I can definitely get a better time.[/hidden][/hidden]

Points to improve upon:

-I've tested in a run I just did about 10 minutes ago, where after I loot the guy's house in the beginning, I jump out that window and over the wall to loot his neighbor for an extra 25, I think.  The only thing this helps with is if I don't snag Benny's purse.  I can also get to the guard with the gear in time as well, so might as well take the chance.
-Get into the basement without snagging; not sure what the problem was there.
-After stealing the gear from the guard and looting the table, I keep going in that same direction and all the way around to the gear door, when I could have just turned left, jumped off the table and taken a right in the hallway where it's there.  In the previously mentioned run I did, it seemed faster.  The total time of the run was 5 seconds faster, but I also saved some time by not having to grab that other vase in the pool room.
-I probably don't need to close the silver gear door after I go through.
-Remember which ways doors open.  I hesitated on a few that swung out that I could have kept running through, and got a couple caught on myself as I tried to rush.
-Don't mantle over the railing in the entrance hall, as I take damage when falling, and is probably slower anyways.
-Figure out what triggers the main gate closing, since I didn't hear any alarms go off.

Time to work on Tracing the Courier and Trail of Blood - halfway done.

LotBlind

2013-08-12 11:36:49 am

Blackmail:
1) On the top of the gates that you get to with the rope arrow looks like you could jump directly from the ledge to other ledge and avoid mantling, though if the gear guard is a bottleneck, doesn't really matter I guess.
2)I think getting into a tight space depends somewhat on your timing because of the bobbing so maybe you have to start the crouch a little ways off the entrance (similar to how mantling sometimes works better if you start at a short distance)... otherwise back off and try again. or crouch again?
3) practice targeting each of the more tricky pickups (like the fine wine in the cellar) separately in each mission? might add up to some seconds in the whole run and maybe you'll get better at it overall, though it looks pretty good now. maybe even spamming the key is good sometimes even if you end up picking up junk?
4) maybe you can make the benny purse grab more consistent if you veer towards the right a bit more so you don't enter his peripheral vision?
5) could you possibly use the gas mine to take down the guard with the gear even if he sees you coming? otherwise do you really need to knock him out?
6) maybe there's some unexpected logic with the ways doors open... then again maybe not.
7) are you sure there's no distance & angle at which a jump will take you directly onto the railing?
8) a shot in the dark: can you activate the gate switch (when escaping) with an arrow? not that you have time for that when the guards are running after you...

LOVIN' ALL THE SURPRISE BLACKJACK ACTION!

Blackmail:
1) On the top of the gates that you get to with the rope arrow looks like you could jump directly from the ledge to other ledge and avoid mantling, though if the gear guard is a bottleneck, doesn't really matter I guess.
2)I think getting into a tight space depends somewhat on your timing because of the bobbing so maybe you have to start the crouch a little ways off the entrance (similar to how mantling sometimes works better if you start at a short distance)... otherwise back off and try again. or crouch again?
3) practice targeting each of the more tricky pickups (like the fine wine in the cellar) separately in each mission? might add up to some seconds in the whole run and maybe you'll get better at it overall, though it looks pretty good now. maybe even spamming the key is good sometimes even if you end up picking up junk?
4) maybe you can make the benny purse grab more consistent if you veer towards the right a bit more so you don't enter his peripheral vision?
5) could you possibly use the gas mine to take down the guard with the gear even if he sees you coming? otherwise do you really need to knock him out?
6) maybe there's some unexpected logic with the ways doors open... then again maybe not.
7) are you sure there's no distance & angle at which a jump will take you directly onto the railing?
8) a shot in the dark: can you activate the gate switch (when escaping) with an arrow? not that you have time for that when the guards are running after you...

LOVIN' ALL THE SURPRISE BLACKJACK ACTION!

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-13 08:25:43 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

1) Yeah, I just screwed up the jump there. Tongue

2) It doesn't happen all the time, just that once, but I've had trouble in tight spaces on other levels, so I probably just need to get better at dealing with them.
3) I should practice that, especially if there are tiny objects to pick up, and to avoid activating reading materials (the glasses on top of the book in Shipping ... and Receiving). Sometimes though, I do spam right click to pick stuff up if there is nothing I can't just toss away with another click.
4) That might be something to try. I think it might also have to do with that damn robot yelling all over the place as well, since another run of it I did (linked below) I didn't alert the bot, and there were guards yelling in the room, and I was even throwing bottles everywhere and was still able to grab the purse.
5) I usually just steal it and run, but I do like tossing a random KO in there. Tongue

I probably could if I got there in time, but with my new early route, I get to him just as he's walking by, or right before, so I wouldn't have the time to grab the mine.
6) Still don't know, haha! This time they were open, but the alarm did go off in the beginning. I'll really need to test that some more.
7) I haven't tried again. I just figure that I would still have to get around the stairs then, so I doubt it's a time saver. If I take some unlucky hits, it could potentially kill me as well.
8) I haven't tried. I know buttons work, but I'm not sure how those consoles work with arrows - I'll give it a shot.

Glad you like my KOs haha! I figure if it's not wasting time, might as well get a swing in. Smiley

New Blackmail route:

Description:

So I polished this thing a bit, and got a better time than my previously uploaded video. For some reason, I really like this mission. Maybe it's the bottleneck of having to get to the guard to steal the first gear, and then be fast afterwards? I don't know, but I like it, and have shaved 8 seconds off of my previous run.

Work has been breaking me down lately, but hopefully I'll find more time to practice soon. I really want to finish routing the rest of the missions and start working them over.

1) Yeah, I just screwed up the jump there. :P
2) It doesn't happen all the time, just that once, but I've had trouble in tight spaces on other levels, so I probably just need to get better at dealing with them.
3) I should practice that, especially if there are tiny objects to pick up, and to avoid activating reading materials (the glasses on top of the book in Shipping ... and Receiving).  Sometimes though, I do spam right click to pick stuff up if there is nothing I can't just toss away with another click.
4) That might be something to try.  I think it might also have to do with that damn robot yelling all over the place as well, since another run of it I did (linked below) I didn't alert the bot, and there were guards yelling in the room, and I was even throwing bottles everywhere and was still able to grab the purse.
5) I usually just steal it and run, but I do like tossing a random KO in there. :P  I probably could if I got there in time, but with my new early route, I get to him just as he's walking by, or right before, so I wouldn't have the time to grab the mine.
6) Still don't know, haha!  This time they were open, but the alarm did go off in the beginning.  I'll really need to test that some more.
7) I haven't tried again.  I just figure that I would still have to get around the stairs then, so I doubt it's a time saver.  If I take some unlucky hits, it could potentially kill me as well.
8) I haven't tried.  I know buttons work, but I'm not sure how those consoles work with arrows - I'll give it a shot.

Glad you like my KOs haha!  I figure if it's not wasting time, might as well get a swing in. :)

New Blackmail route:
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqH6xxwCWI[/url]
Description:
[hidden]So I polished this thing a bit, and got a better time than my previously uploaded video.  For some reason, I really like this mission.  Maybe it's the bottleneck of having to get to the guard to steal the first gear, and then be fast afterwards?  I don't know, but I like it, and have shaved 8 seconds off of my previous run.[/hidden][/hidden]

Work has been breaking me down lately, but hopefully I'll find more time to practice soon.  I really want to finish routing the rest of the missions and start working them over.

LotBlind

2013-08-14 08:43:40 am

Quote:

6) maybe there's some unexpected logic with the ways doors open... then again maybe not.

Haha, I actually meant the doors inside buildings! Which ones open inwards and which outwards.

Quote from Socrates:

For some reason, I really like this mission.

I think it's because every bit counts (towards reaching your first goal) and because you get to knock guys out from the front.

Hmm... Looks like the gate being open would account for several seconds of that improvement and also the faster entrance into the stairway corridor, but doesn't matter in a route demo I guess. If it's at ALL feasible, you MUST get that gas mine and do SOMETHING with it if you ever find yourself in a marathon situation. I mean it's gotta happen sooner or later. Haven't seen Thief games in marathons yet. Save scumming? Eh?

Have you considered half-opening that door instead? Probably doesn't actually save any time but could be useful elsewhere? Or even opening it, then close-slip-by-opening it again? Oh well technicalities... Can't see anything else to comment on.

[quote]6) maybe there's some unexpected logic with the ways doors open... then again maybe not. [/quote]

Haha, I actually meant the doors inside buildings! Which ones open inwards and which outwards.

[quote=Socrates]For some reason, I really like this mission.[/quote]

I think it's because every bit counts (towards reaching your first goal) and because you get to knock guys out from the front.

Hmm... Looks like the gate being open would account for several seconds of that improvement and also the faster entrance into the stairway corridor, but doesn't matter in a route demo I guess. If it's at ALL feasible, you MUST get that gas mine and do SOMETHING with it if you ever find yourself in a marathon situation. I mean it's gotta happen sooner or later. Haven't seen Thief games in marathons yet. Save scumming? Eh?

Have you considered half-opening that door instead? Probably doesn't actually save any time but could be useful elsewhere? Or even opening it, then close-slip-by-opening it again? Oh well technicalities... Can't see anything else to comment on.

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-14 08:59:53 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

6) Oh, right. Tongue

I know every door opens the same way the same time, so it's probably more of a remembering thing. I tried looking at what side of the door the handle is on to correlate which way the door opens, but they change it up every now and then.

Maybe I'll skip the second house in the front and grab the mine and drop it in Truart's room or something. When I have a long train of guards would be fun.

I appreciate the comments, Lot. Smiley

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-18 10:58:58 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

I got a decent time on Tracing the Courier, I like to think. Points to work on - hit escape after reading the note faster, practice firing the noisemaker arrow faster with accuracy, and get over the wall in the graveyard without stumbling.

Tracing the Courier:

Description:

Mission premise: Follow Lt. Mosley, check out what is in the letter, and follow the person who picks up the letter to their destination. We're only going to do half of that.

At the start, I run around and douse the torch with a water arrow. I want to stay somewhat visible, so that Mosley is a bit suspicious, which keeps her from stopping and looking around. There are two more spots for that that I have come across. One is right after the second guard, so I try to douse the torch, but hit her instead, so that probably irked her. The third is right before the drop after I knock out that civilian. Dousing the torch makes her comment on the lack of light, so she doesn't stop to look around.

After she drops the note, I like to knock her out, because I like knocking people out, but that's not required. I pick up the note (do not drop it and run away or the mission will fail), read it, hit escape (way too slowly, I might add), down a speed potion and take off for the graveyard. If the pagan in the graveyard sees you, the mission fails. That is why I launch a noisemaker arrow, so I can run right by him with his back turned, hop the wall and enter the portal.

I got a decent time on Tracing the Courier, I like to think.  Points to work on - hit escape after reading the note faster, practice firing the noisemaker arrow faster with accuracy, and get over the wall in the graveyard without stumbling.

Tracing the Courier:
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utoA2JmHQJ0[/url]

Description:
[hidden]Mission premise: Follow Lt. Mosley, check out what is in the letter, and follow the person who picks up the letter to their destination.  We're only going to do half of that.

At the start, I run around and douse the torch with a water arrow.  I want to stay somewhat visible, so that Mosley is a bit suspicious, which keeps her from stopping and looking around.  There are two more spots for that that I have come across.  One is right after the second guard, so I try to douse the torch, but hit her instead, so that probably irked her.  The third is right before the drop after I knock out that civilian.  Dousing the torch makes her comment on the lack of light, so she doesn't stop to look around.

After she drops the note, I like to knock her out, because I like knocking people out, but that's not required.  I pick up the note (do not drop it and run away or the mission will fail), read it, hit escape (way too slowly, I might add), down a speed potion and take off for the graveyard.  If the pagan in the graveyard sees you, the mission fails.  That is why I launch a noisemaker arrow, so I can run right by him with his back turned, hop the wall and enter the portal.[/hidden][/hidden]

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-19 12:13:28 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

I was able to shave off a couple seconds to get 3:27 - video to come later. Turns out I don't need to hit escape, just any button on the keyboard to close the note, so I used the movement buttons, started going towards the fountain, tapped F5 just in time to bring up the speed potion to drink and make my way. I was happy with the shot I made with the noisemaker as well.

LotBlind

2013-08-19 08:50:55 am

So it seems to me that you have scouting orbs and broadhead arrows to play with. Maybe while you wait for Mosely to appear from around the first corner. Although I see now that items carry over... Also open the sewer hatch when Mosely is walking across it and later chuck someone's body in. Have you experimented with using broadheads as a distraction for Mosely instead of being seen? Would that increase your versatility of options? Are there any more loot items that you almost have time for nabbing? Also I guess you remember that if you can do that but have to compromise one of the Mosely Distraction Moments, it's still worth it if it takes you a longer time to go out of your way for whatever loot you need from Trail of Blood.

Is it possible to prevent Mosely and the guard from bumping into each other? Saves a second if you can do that. Finally can you jump-mantle onto the cemetary wall instead?

"I don't have any money!" (Has a big ass coin purse hanging off her belt)

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-19 10:15:20 am

2013-08-19 10:09:09 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

Sometimes I open the sewer hatch and toss a body down if I'm bored and feel like messing around, but otherwise, I don't believe there is any need to.
I tried to distract Mosley for a bit with a broadhead arrow, but that just made her and the first guard I knock out start searching for me.
I've done a small bit of searching for more loot in the map without getting too far from Mosley, but I can check a loot map and see if anything viable is close by. I know there is a moss arrow where I mantle over before looting the girl, and in the building I run around right at the start there is a rope arrow, I think.
As for the guard and Mosley, I usually see her barrel through the guard with little time lost, but it seems that she always runs into him. One problem, however, is the girl. I don't know what regulates her pattern or path or whatever, but there was one time that she and Mosley were stuck on each other for a good 3 to 5 seconds! I'm always happy when I see her walking when I get there, so she won't collide with Mosley.
Lastly, I've tried multiple ways of getting over the wall, even the wall outside of the cemetery so I don't have to deal with the pagan, but nothing seems to work. I tried elevatoring over with the scouting orbs, but I'm unable to latch on and mantle up. So for right now at least, I'll have to hop on the grave to get over.

New Time:

Quote:

"I don't have any money!" (Has a big ass coin purse hanging off her belt)

That's why I run out of my way to knock her out every time. Filthy liars!

Sometimes I open the sewer hatch and toss a body down if I'm bored and feel like messing around, but otherwise, I don't believe there is any need to.
I tried to distract Mosley for a bit with a broadhead arrow, but that just made her and the first guard I knock out start searching for me.
I've done a small bit of searching for more loot in the map without getting too far from Mosley, but I can check a loot map and see if anything viable is close by.  I know there is a moss arrow where I mantle over before looting the girl, and in the building I run around right at the start there is a rope arrow, I think.
As for the guard and Mosley, I usually see her barrel through the guard with little time lost, but it seems that she always runs into him.  One problem, however, is the girl.  I don't know what regulates her pattern or path or whatever, but there was one time that she and Mosley were stuck on each other for a good 3 to 5 seconds!  I'm always happy when I see her walking when I get there, so she won't collide with Mosley.
Lastly, I've tried multiple ways of getting over the wall, even the wall outside of the cemetery so I don't have to deal with the pagan, but nothing seems to work.  I tried elevatoring over with the scouting orbs, but I'm unable to latch on and mantle up.  So for right now at least, I'll have to hop on the grave to get over.

New Time:
[hidden][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEs-a2ILWRk[/url][/hidden]

[quote]"I don't have any money!" (Has a big ass coin purse hanging off her belt)[/quote]
That's why I run out of my way to knock her out every time.  Filthy liars!

DarkDEVASTAT10N

2013-08-20 06:42:37 am

Reading though here, there's something listed called "Pausing Conversation"

Quote:

P - Pausing Conversations
The command console can be opened in game with a keystroke. For example, put "bind p edit_command" in the user.bnd file. In T2, NPC conversations are played in chunks of a couple of seconds. If you pause the game at the beginning of a chunk with the key binding above, the sound chunk continues to play. Hit return on the console before the sound chunk ends. You have heard part of the conversation, but no game time has passed. Repeat this process until the conversation ends. In Eavesdropping this can save more than three minutes game time.

Would this be considered cheating, or would you say it's fair game to use?

LotBlind

2013-08-20 07:25:34 am

pausing conversation: seems REEEAALLLYY cheesy even if it wasn't cheating... I think whether or not it is cheating depends on whether that bind can be set in-game in the menus.

ymh

2013-08-20 07:28:28 am

Yeah.
As for SDA, this would probably be considered cheating, because I think you're generally not allowed to manipulate settings or controls from outside the game in this way. And it's still another question if it's legit to use a command the developers took out.
If it was still available in the controls and you could bind it there, then it wouldn't be a problem.
In addition, if it's only the game time not passing, the actual real-time would still be counted.

DarkDEVASTAT10N

2013-08-20 07:35:54 am

Quote from ymh:

Yeah.
As for SDA, this would probably be considered cheating, because I think you're generally not allowed to manipulate settings or controls from outside the game in this way. And it's still another question if it's legit to use a command the developers took out.
If it was still available in the controls and you could bind it there, then it wouldn't be a problem.
In addition, if it's only the game time not passing, the actual real-time would still be counted.

Well, the console commands can be used for recording demos. There is no way to bind a control to bring up the console in game. To do the glitch (as far as I know, I haven't tried it yet) you just bring up the console and close it again.

Also the last line in your post raises an interesting point. I think the idea of PC games is we go by game time, not real time. At the end of the Sabotage on Soulforge, the game lists your game time under stats. I personally think we should use that for timing. Rather than real time because SSDs etc. etc.

[quote="ymh"]Yeah.
As for SDA, this would probably be considered cheating, because I think you're generally not allowed to manipulate settings or controls from outside the game in this way. And it's still another question if it's legit to use a command the developers took out.
If it was still available in the controls and you could bind it there, then it wouldn't be a problem.
In addition, if it's only the game time not passing, the actual real-time would still be counted.[/quote]

Well, the console commands can be used for recording demos. There is no way to bind a control to bring up the console in game. To do the glitch (as far as I know, I haven't tried it yet) you just bring up the console and close it again.

Also the last line in your post raises an interesting point. I think the idea of PC games is we go by game time, not real time. At the end of the Sabotage on Soulforge, the game lists your game time under stats. I personally think we should use that for timing. Rather than real time because SSDs etc. etc.

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-20 01:14:50 pm

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-20 01:13:55 pm

2013-08-20 01:13:35 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Virtual machines for Windows are now allowed on SDA. Thread

Time to make a VM and install Thief 2 on it. Might have to play around with earlier versions and the glitches in them.

ymh

Edit history:

ymh: 2013-08-20 03:16:56 pm

2013-08-20 03:16:19 pm

Quote from DarkDEVASTAT10N:

Quote from ymh:

...

Well, the console commands can be used for recording demos. There is no way to bind a control to bring up the console in game. To do the glitch (as far as I know, I haven't tried it yet) you just bring up the console and close it again.

Again, putting in a command (like bringing up the console) by editing the user.bnd file is, at least to my understanding, an outside alteration that is forbidden. So the console would be off-limits for usage.

Quote from DarkDEVASTAT10N:

Also the last line in your post raises an interesting point. I think the idea of PC games is we go by game time, not real time. At the end of the Sabotage on Soulforge, the game lists your game time under stats. I personally think we should use that for timing. Rather than real time because SSDs etc. etc.

It's true that if a game has a built-in timer, that's normally the time to go for. However, in special cases, and this would be one of them, the in-game timer would be inaccurate, and the time in which you are pausing the game and operating the console would be added, because you are still in control.

At least that's what my thoughts are considering the rules, don't nail me down on it.

[quote="DarkDEVASTAT10N"][quote="ymh"]...[/quote]
Well, the console commands can be used for recording demos. There is no way to bind a control to bring up the console in game. To do the glitch (as far as I know, I haven't tried it yet) you just bring up the console and close it again.[/quote]
Again, putting in a command (like bringing up the console) by editing the user.bnd file is, at least to my understanding, an outside alteration that is forbidden. So the console would be off-limits for usage.
[quote="DarkDEVASTAT10N"]Also the last line in your post raises an interesting point. I think the idea of PC games is we go by game time, not real time. At the end of the Sabotage on Soulforge, the game lists your game time under stats. I personally think we should use that for timing. Rather than real time because SSDs etc. etc. [/quote]
It's true that if a game has a built-in timer, that's normally the time to go for. However, in special cases, and this would be one of them, the in-game timer would be inaccurate, and the time in which you are pausing the game and operating the console would be added, because you are still in control.

At least that's what my thoughts are considering the rules, don't nail me down on it.

LotBlind

2013-08-21 12:23:47 pm

How exactly does the new ruling change what you can do with Thief/2?

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-21 12:43:48 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

I was running unofficial patches to get it to work on my machine, which uses new dark. So my videos more than likely wouldn't be accepted, but now that I can run the game on a VM without the use of unofficial patches, I could play around with older versions that haven't had some of the glitches patched out which could be accepted.

LotBlind

2013-08-22 06:48:24 am

Now that's intriguing... Hope you'll find something interesting! Wonder how many of the demo version glitches are left in the unpatched retail version.

SocratesJohnson

Edit history:

SocratesJohnson: 2013-08-22 09:33:20 am

2013-08-22 09:32:12 am

Always move forward, never sleep.

I know from watching Poesta's videos that you can shoot a fire arrow at the bank vault door to open it and clear that level in about 1:07 (version 1.07, coincidentally), so I might want to try that out. Grin

Keyholing doesn't work in the version I'm currently running either, and want to mess around on Shipping ... and Receiving to test out some routes instead of having to open the warehouse doors.

LotBlind

2013-08-23 01:08:21 pm

I guess since the version differences are not drastic (apart from some of those glitches) you'd be required to choose the fastest version? Therefore you must switch over to 1.07?

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-23 03:23:22 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

It's possible, that is, if I can get an original copy (find the one I own? hah!) and find the correct patches. Otherwise, the Steam version is 1.18, so nothing would change. I just need some time this weekend to play, last played on Monday. Undecided

SocratesJohnson

2013-08-25 06:05:43 pm

Always move forward, never sleep.

Still trying to practice Trail of Blood, but I'm learning I don't really like this level. Tongue

I need to practice that speed potion + slowfall jump more, as I've only gotten it once.

Otherwise, right now I'm going through Life of the Party, and will get back to Trail of Blood in a bit.