Don't mean to spam this topic, but earlier I said a sub-32 was possible... it is haha. I just got a 31:25!: http://www.twitch.tv/smishox/c/2672144
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I'll definitely watch that run (whenever Quakecon no longer holds me captive) and see if I can see any obvious problems, though if your time is already better than Peaches, it's very unlikely it's going to be rejected. There still hasn't been an accepted submission (or other submissions at all) for this game though T3tsu started the thread a couple of years back.
Thanks for anything you can add to the Wiki! There's stuff that I'd like to get done (including an all A-rank superplay playthrough) for science! that is going to be a lot of work for one person so if you feel like it I can tell you what in specific could be done. There's stuff that's difficult for an average typer but someone like you could probably do easily. Anyway...
So I think you'd get accepted right now. Gonna get back on that later!
Thanks for anything you can add to the Wiki! There's stuff that I'd like to get done (including an all A-rank superplay playthrough) for science! that is going to be a lot of work for one person so if you feel like it I can tell you what in specific could be done. There's stuff that's difficult for an average typer but someone like you could probably do easily. Anyway...
So I think you'd get accepted right now. Gonna get back on that later!
I messaged Peaches to see if he had any runs better than 32:01, so I'm gonna wait to see what he says. I don't think I could submit that recording because I had my mic on and had some background noise on my computer as well. I felt that it was a solid run but I know I still made some mistakes, so I'd love to try to get what I can consider a "perfect" run (or, at least a run without any obvious errors) and submit that. I'm not sure how likely that is though, cause the game can be pretty hard at times!
I'd definitely love to do a 100% playthrough, especially since the rumor is that there's a bonus level if you save all hostages. Were you wanting that on the arcade mode or on classic mode?
I'd definitely love to do a 100% playthrough, especially since the rumor is that there's a bonus level if you save all hostages. Were you wanting that on the arcade mode or on classic mode?
So first of all, let's get our jargon straight! It's "Original Mode" 
So one reason I'd like to do a complete playthrough of every possible route in the game (all different paths explored) is to be able to decide once and for all what route[s] are theoretically the fastest. The problem is if you just play the game you get different dynamic difficulty levels (DL) in the different areas depending on your performance, which makes it hard to judge the routes objectively. So I wanted to try to eliminate that variable (in addition to variations caused by crate pick-ups and other things) from the equation by playing the game first with minimal difficulty (all E-ranks, using lots of continues everywhere), then with maximal difficulty (all A-ranks, no tranquilizers, damage taken or anything) and possibly a kind of "neutral run" to finish it off if that turns out to be possible (all C-ranks). Now obviously the max and neutral runs are going to be a little bit problematic. Ideally, someone should hack the game (maybe just RAM searches and code inject?) to give us unlimited Golden Hands or otherwise make the typing automatic. Last time I was working on this I was looking into whether there is a way to get consistent X-ranks for everything you type which currently stands at "Maybe" (this is one of the things that should be studied more). And then there's other things to study as well and what we want to do is compile a big list of everything we want to find out about the game and plan experiments that give us the information we want in an economic way if you see what I mean. That's why I'm hesitant to just say "You could go do this to study that". But so if you're interested, I promise to take a look at where things were at after QuakeCon and try to at least come up with something that could be crossed off the list.
To return on the "superplays", the min DL obviously can be done first, but that one can be done by anyone. I don't know if an unassisted all-A's run is within your range of possibilities (you couldn't really even do it chapter by chapter because of how the game works, I think), so we'll have to find a solution for that.
So if you're super-eager to start, I think we might consider doing the min DL all the while creating a full map of the whole game and all the different paths that you can be on. Let's remember that even if it turned out Peaches' (and yours) route WAS the fastest, that might not be the case for some other category, so creating a nice-looking comprehensive full game map will be very useful indeed.
Glad to have someone else onboard!
So one reason I'd like to do a complete playthrough of every possible route in the game (all different paths explored) is to be able to decide once and for all what route[s] are theoretically the fastest. The problem is if you just play the game you get different dynamic difficulty levels (DL) in the different areas depending on your performance, which makes it hard to judge the routes objectively. So I wanted to try to eliminate that variable (in addition to variations caused by crate pick-ups and other things) from the equation by playing the game first with minimal difficulty (all E-ranks, using lots of continues everywhere), then with maximal difficulty (all A-ranks, no tranquilizers, damage taken or anything) and possibly a kind of "neutral run" to finish it off if that turns out to be possible (all C-ranks). Now obviously the max and neutral runs are going to be a little bit problematic. Ideally, someone should hack the game (maybe just RAM searches and code inject?) to give us unlimited Golden Hands or otherwise make the typing automatic. Last time I was working on this I was looking into whether there is a way to get consistent X-ranks for everything you type which currently stands at "Maybe" (this is one of the things that should be studied more). And then there's other things to study as well and what we want to do is compile a big list of everything we want to find out about the game and plan experiments that give us the information we want in an economic way if you see what I mean. That's why I'm hesitant to just say "You could go do this to study that". But so if you're interested, I promise to take a look at where things were at after QuakeCon and try to at least come up with something that could be crossed off the list.
To return on the "superplays", the min DL obviously can be done first, but that one can be done by anyone. I don't know if an unassisted all-A's run is within your range of possibilities (you couldn't really even do it chapter by chapter because of how the game works, I think), so we'll have to find a solution for that.
So if you're super-eager to start, I think we might consider doing the min DL all the while creating a full map of the whole game and all the different paths that you can be on. Let's remember that even if it turned out Peaches' (and yours) route WAS the fastest, that might not be the case for some other category, so creating a nice-looking comprehensive full game map will be very useful indeed.
Glad to have someone else onboard!
Just as a general notice for the categories of this game... I'm thinking now that NG+ should probably be the default category in Original Mode and here's my reasoning: Say a runner was interested in IL's (no-one has done that specifically yet). To get to chapter 6 straight from the start they need to collect 20 coins, which means they pick up the extra molotovs along the way (at 10 coins) whether they like it or not. It would seem pretty silly if they went on to do an OC mode run and not use the molotovs. Otherwise they'd have to reinstall. So for this practical reason, I'm suggesting OC mode runs HAVE TO use the molotovs. I guess it adds a nice strategic consideration to the run anyway...
Furthermore, if that's the path we go down, then maybe you'd also HAVE TO manipulate the high score tables to give you/avoid getting the extra life as necessitated by the category. There's my thought process for you.
Furthermore, if that's the path we go down, then maybe you'd also HAVE TO manipulate the high score tables to give you/avoid getting the extra life as necessitated by the category. There's my thought process for you.
First of all Shox, sorry that I didn't see your contributions to the Wiki before. I never received a notification despite having the page "watched". Gonna look into that.
Shox, here's some feedback on your run[s]. I'm in the middle of watching the twitch video you linked, but due to the way I downloaded it first (which gave me two videos) I can't quite tell what's the record attempt and what's not, so you may have done these things "right" later on.
-Looks like sometimes you're typing the zombies in the "wrong" order which a lot of the time doesn't matter, but you're risking taking damage for no reason. I know it's tough to memorize them, but maybe you'd wanna do that for some of the tougher spots in later levels.
-I don't know if it's possible to plan so carefully, but if you've got your perfect gauge near the brink and you're about to use your last continue, of course you'd wanna mistype to prevent the extra life before the continue. Maybe you are doing this, just a thought.
Chapter 1:
-You and Peaches seem to have different routes - P saves the civilians. It's a trade-off I guess, because the left courtyard is faster than the right one. This could be established objectively if we manage to do this mapping I was suggesting. (As in 100% objectively)
-One of the things I wanted to find out was whether it's worthwhile getting the E from the second zombie marching out the door in the mission (and consequent missions). It might act to lower the DL...
-You could wait for slightly longer with the guy hopping off the bridge for a non-A rank.
Chapter 5:
Entering the Magician courtyard, the three zombies should be taken out in the order MIDDLE-LEFT-RIGHT so that you initiate the Peter parasite (called Buyo) sequence first, type something while waiting, and get the buyo later. If you're confident you could even try LEFT-MIDDLE-RIGHT.
Chapter 6:
-Your Tower is pretty good! T3tsuya was having a bad time with it IIRC.
Are you already preparing for submittable recordings?
Shox, here's some feedback on your run[s]. I'm in the middle of watching the twitch video you linked, but due to the way I downloaded it first (which gave me two videos) I can't quite tell what's the record attempt and what's not, so you may have done these things "right" later on.
-Looks like sometimes you're typing the zombies in the "wrong" order which a lot of the time doesn't matter, but you're risking taking damage for no reason. I know it's tough to memorize them, but maybe you'd wanna do that for some of the tougher spots in later levels.
-I don't know if it's possible to plan so carefully, but if you've got your perfect gauge near the brink and you're about to use your last continue, of course you'd wanna mistype to prevent the extra life before the continue. Maybe you are doing this, just a thought.
Chapter 1:
-You and Peaches seem to have different routes - P saves the civilians. It's a trade-off I guess, because the left courtyard is faster than the right one. This could be established objectively if we manage to do this mapping I was suggesting. (As in 100% objectively)
-One of the things I wanted to find out was whether it's worthwhile getting the E from the second zombie marching out the door in the mission (and consequent missions). It might act to lower the DL...
-You could wait for slightly longer with the guy hopping off the bridge for a non-A rank.
Chapter 5:
Entering the Magician courtyard, the three zombies should be taken out in the order MIDDLE-LEFT-RIGHT so that you initiate the Peter parasite (called Buyo) sequence first, type something while waiting, and get the buyo later. If you're confident you could even try LEFT-MIDDLE-RIGHT.
Chapter 6:
-Your Tower is pretty good! T3tsuya was having a bad time with it IIRC.
Are you already preparing for submittable recordings?
I'll try to start working on a 100% run soon, although I'm kinda wondering if I have the skill to do so. I know you've mentioned an unlimited Golden Hands before and that would definitely be useful for this kind of thing. As far as speed running categories, the reason I think people do arcade mode is to avoid items completely, because you're right - whether the player likes it or not, they're stuck with three Molitovs from the very beginning assuming they've run through it before. Uninstalling the game and installing it again would get tiresome of course. Now as far as the idea that items lead to more strategy, I'm not so sure whether this would make Original Mode a better category overall. I'm going to continue to run Arcade Mode unless something drastically changes.
Also, thanks for the feedback! As far as Chapter 1, going off of his SGDQ run, he actually saves the woman on accident and it's much faster to not save them. On the Magician courtyard zombies, I've actually wondered about that a lot and I always end up accidentally typing the far right one first regardless, so I've kinda stuck with it but it's something I do need to look at.
The thing about intentionally going for lower ranks is that I'm starting to feel it's a little overrated. There's certain key points where losing a life is nice - i.e. before a boss - but on my best run I've had, I didn't really take too much time to worry about losing lives and I just focused on typing. When it gets to the point where I'm typing sentences and not words, I'll lose a life on purpose, but until then I don't mind slightly longer words because I can still knock them out well enough. This is just something I've noticed through multiple runs, it seems like the more I worry about strategically losing lives, the worse I actually do. This could just be a personal thing though where I get knocked out of my rhythm and start slipping up.
I messaged Peaches a week ago or so to clarify what his fastest was but I haven't heard back from him yet. I've seen him streaming so hopefully he checks this site soon. It would be fun to organize some races on SRL and maybe gather some interest for this game.
Also, thanks for the feedback! As far as Chapter 1, going off of his SGDQ run, he actually saves the woman on accident and it's much faster to not save them. On the Magician courtyard zombies, I've actually wondered about that a lot and I always end up accidentally typing the far right one first regardless, so I've kinda stuck with it but it's something I do need to look at.
The thing about intentionally going for lower ranks is that I'm starting to feel it's a little overrated. There's certain key points where losing a life is nice - i.e. before a boss - but on my best run I've had, I didn't really take too much time to worry about losing lives and I just focused on typing. When it gets to the point where I'm typing sentences and not words, I'll lose a life on purpose, but until then I don't mind slightly longer words because I can still knock them out well enough. This is just something I've noticed through multiple runs, it seems like the more I worry about strategically losing lives, the worse I actually do. This could just be a personal thing though where I get knocked out of my rhythm and start slipping up.
I messaged Peaches a week ago or so to clarify what his fastest was but I haven't heard back from him yet. I've seen him streaming so hopefully he checks this site soon.
Unfortunately there is currently no "unlimited golden hands" or other solutions at hand. We'll have to think about more. I don't think ANYONE has the sheer skill, at least we can't expect that to happen.
Categories: my view is let's fill up the categories starting from Arcade. I even suggested to the other runners that they do ILs first to reduce the complexity further, building up towards OC mode NG+. Another category that you could just do for fun is the boss rush... I guess it should be the max difficulty boss rush. Single bosses as a category seem too luck-dependent to be interesting and the lower difficulties are maybe also not interesting.
About losing lives and getting bad ranks... Well losing continues seems to be logical, but getting those individual E-ranks... precisely why I wanted to look into it more. I think I'm kinda comfortable with it myself I guess because I've thought about it so much so I'm sure one can pick it up with time, but whether it's worthwhile could be a) a question of style and b) better understood later. Clearly, though, your WRs (word ranks A-E) affect the difficulty level in some way.
I'm currently a little ill but I'm thinking we could do a Skype call at some point and brainstorm a bit. What do you say? If you're in, just send me your Skype by PM.
Categories: my view is let's fill up the categories starting from Arcade. I even suggested to the other runners that they do ILs first to reduce the complexity further, building up towards OC mode NG+. Another category that you could just do for fun is the boss rush... I guess it should be the max difficulty boss rush. Single bosses as a category seem too luck-dependent to be interesting and the lower difficulties are maybe also not interesting.
About losing lives and getting bad ranks... Well losing continues seems to be logical, but getting those individual E-ranks... precisely why I wanted to look into it more. I think I'm kinda comfortable with it myself I guess because I've thought about it so much so I'm sure one can pick it up with time, but whether it's worthwhile could be a) a question of style and b) better understood later. Clearly, though, your WRs (word ranks A-E) affect the difficulty level in some way.
I'm currently a little ill but I'm thinking we could do a Skype call at some point and brainstorm a bit. What do you say? If you're in, just send me your Skype by PM.
I found a program simply called "Slower" that can interrupt and resume the running of any process on the computer. It provides a kind of slow-down effect. I didn't test it yet for Typing but if it works it could help greatly with the high difficulty run. If you have the time, you could test it for me Shox! http://download.cnet.com/Slower/3000-2121_4-10407875.html
I guess you've been busy...
I guess you've been busy...