Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force 1 and 2 request

Edit history:

Elaqure: 2007-06-01 01:38:28 am

2007-05-31 04:32:07 pm

Running for the good of humanity!!!

LOL...dude, the thread is a year old...it is DEAD. But yeah...these would be cool to watch...

EDIT: Ahem...BUMP OF DOOM!!!(good job Psonar)

JediTry

2007-06-01 09:51:28 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

I have the run on my hard drive encoded in HQ only. That is, by 2005 standards. Grin

Originally zabb had it but never got around to finishing and uploading it. I simply don't have the time and nerves to do the other encodings and upload.

Psonar

2007-06-01 11:06:53 pm

Long live SF64!

You came back!

I think these days at least you should be able to get those HQ files to Nate and let him do what he does best with the encoding.

Better yet, if the stack of DVDs is still laying around somewhere, I would think Nate would be best able to do the encoding if he has the original files.

You shouldn't have to do the encoding yourself, regardless. SDA will get the run up if you get it to them and it passes verification.

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2007-06-10 02:14:12 pm

2007-06-09 10:34:25 pm

Long live SF64!

I've been playing through this again and I've noticed a few places where shortcuts can be made in the last mission on the Harvester ship.

In general you can't jump down to lower level inside the main shaft or you'll experience a scripted death... the game basically has an invisible sheet that kills you when you touch it. Well I wasn't able to find any way to jump off the first level, but from the 2nd to the 3rd level I was able to jump down by jumping near the elevator shaft. Because the shaft is open, I push forward as much as possible to avoid the invisible surface of death, since that surface can't extend into the lift shaft.

On the level with the control booth where you hit a switch to extend a bridge, I just jumped from the booth down to the level below where the bridge extends from. I miss out on a health station, which can be a problem since for the next few rooms I run like crazy.

Lastly, from the second to lowest level, with the curved railing, I can jump to the level below instead of using elevaters and whatnot.

Since the previous runner mentioned not being able to jump to lower levels because of the scripted deaths, I thought I'd bring this up. None of these are major sequence breaks - at best: shortcuts, at least: route optimizations.

One other thing I found. On the Dreadnought ship (the big cannon-ship) I found that if you enter the room with the malfunctioning gravimetric plating, the low-gravity effect will continue working even when you go back to previous rooms! This allows you to go back to the beam alignment room, jump up to the other side and realign the beam much earlier than normal! Unfortunately, there's a level-ending elevator just after that. When I hit the button it freezes me in place and waits for other team members to get on - except they can't because I skipped several rooms and they can't follow me using the low-grav trick. The entire rest of the level you can romp through in low gravity, but it doesn't do you any good, which really sucks - oh well - a fun find anyway! After completing the low grav room like normal, the bug is fixed, isolating that room as the only one with low gravity.

I doubt I'll do a run on this, but I've been messing around with it regardless. Any reguler FPS player could whoop me at this game, so I highly doubt I'd do a run. My movement is very sloppy and my aim is probably pretty bad compared to most.

Maybe someone else will pick up one of the Elite Force games?

I've been playing through this again and I've noticed a few places where shortcuts can be made in the last mission on the Harvester ship.

In general you can't jump down to lower level inside the main shaft or you'll experience a scripted death... the game basically has an invisible sheet that kills you when you touch it.  Well I wasn't able to find any way to jump off the first level, but from the 2nd to the 3rd level I was able to jump down by jumping near the elevator shaft.  Because the shaft is open, I push forward as much as possible to avoid the invisible surface of death, since that surface can't extend into the lift shaft.

On the level with the control booth where you hit a switch to extend a bridge, I just jumped from the booth down to the level below where the bridge extends from.  I miss out on a health station, which can be a problem since for the next few rooms I run like crazy.

Lastly, from the second to lowest level, with the curved railing, I can jump to the level below instead of using elevaters and whatnot.

Since the previous runner mentioned not being able to jump to lower levels because of the scripted deaths, I thought I'd bring this up.  None of these are major sequence breaks - at best: shortcuts, at least: route optimizations.

One other thing I found.  On the Dreadnought ship (the big cannon-ship) I found that if you enter the room with the malfunctioning gravimetric plating, the low-gravity effect will continue working even when you go back to previous rooms!  This allows you to go back to the beam alignment room, jump up to the other side and realign the beam much earlier than normal!  Unfortunately, there's a level-ending elevator just after that.  When I hit the button it freezes me in place and waits for other team members to get on - except they can't because I skipped several rooms and they can't follow me using the low-grav trick.  The entire rest of the level you can romp through in low gravity, but it doesn't do you any good, which really sucks - oh well - a fun find anyway! After completing the low grav room like normal, the bug is fixed, isolating that room as the only one with low gravity.

I doubt I'll do a run on this, but I've been messing around with it regardless.  Any reguler FPS player could whoop me  at this game, so I highly doubt I'd do a run.  My movement is very sloppy and my aim is probably pretty bad compared to most.

Maybe someone else will pick up one of the Elite Force games?

Psonar

2007-06-10 02:15:15 pm

Long live SF64!

Jeditry, how big is your run on HQ? I'd being willing to set up a LAN with you through Hamachi and let you just dump everything onto my computer or something similar. I know you don't want to mess with the run anymore, so just get it to someone else, and you're free to go!

Also, how were you timing your run? You mentioned segments at one point, so does that mean that you were timing only the "active" or "player-controlled" portions of the run and counting each "new location" as a segment? I'm trying to figure out how I can time to shoot for that 1:15 zabb mentioned. Right now the game is taking me closer to 2 hours, but thats overall time not accounting for segments.

JediTry

Edit history:

JediTry: 2007-06-10 08:51:17 pm

2007-06-10 05:50:49 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

2.72gb.

I technically have 17 segments, but as there was a 4gb limit in fraps one segment got split in 2 files. So let's say there are 18. The segments are mostly by level, but the storyline missions (5, 7, 9, 11) all got 3 segments.

Total video time is 1:33:53, but includes the whole game. i.e. loading screens, videos, cutscenes (beginning and end only, as I skipped what I could). No idea how he got the 1:15, but I think it was more of an estimate.

EDIT. I just approximately timed the loading screens and there's around 7 minutes of them. So the actual game time is around 1:26

Psonar

2007-06-12 09:29:27 pm

Long live SF64!

I'm really interested in either getting those from you directly, or you could dump the lot of them onto Archive.org all at once or something. What are you comfortable with doing? Sorry for pestering you with questions, but I'm loving this game and I hate seeing it sit on your computer. I'd like to see the run out of personal interest, and if your willing to submit the run, then I think it deserves its place on SDA. Here's some ideas for getting the run to me or getting it on SDA:

It'd take a while, but we could transfer a zipped folder of the videos over AIM
I could set up an Archive.org item and then give you the ftp directory, and you then just drag and drop the files to the ftp directory
You could send the files individually or in small groups over yousendit.com or another large file email service
You could upload the files individually, or in zipped folders to filefront (I don't think filefront handles massive zip folders very well => individual/batches)
You could install Hamachi, we connect through Hamachi, which simulates a LAN network, then you just drag and drop the files into my Shared Documents folder which will show up in your My Network Places folder
OR you could post a sample of your HQ video in Tech Support and ask if your HQ encoded run is acceptable for submission as is - then PM Mike Uyama (now in charge of verification) to submit to SDA where the run deserves to be.

Again, I hate to make a request of a runner, because ultimately its your time and your life, but I know things usually get done a lot quicker when there's some motivation or at least someone expressing interest in it.

Thanks for coming back to the forums anyway... I figured you were gone for good!

On another topic, I just found out that this game was also released on the PS2! Go figure - the last PC game I wanted to run, Starfighter, I ended up getting for the PS2. I want to get it just to try it out and see how in the world the game was puton a console. That and if it's playable, and I end up wanting to make a run, my trusty VCR is ready as ever.

I mention my VCR because I recently got Fraps and have found that my poor laptop can't run Elite Force with Fraps without being jumpy or choppy, even at low graphics settings. To work around this I was hoping that I could find a mod or something to record Quake III Arena demo files for the game, but so far I've had no luck. Indeed demo recording is allowed in Holomatch (the separate multiplayer executable) but isn't mentioned anywhere in the main game.

I've tried the Q3A console commands that I've found online, but I haven't gotten any of that to work either. I've got a few more ideas to try... I wasn't putting a filetype on the demo filename when I tried to record. I was doing '/record test' instead of '/record test.dem or .dm3 or whatever. I need to figure out the proper file extension and maybe that'll do it. In the mean time I'm trying to find a universal Quake 3 demo recording program that works like Fraps or something except that it facilitates demo recording and playback for any Quake 3 Engine game - yeah I'll keep dreaming...

Anyways I've been playing more and kinda practicing running the game for fun. I just wish I had a way to record PC stuff that my computer can handle. Maybe I'll need to invest in an S-video to RCA adapter, but recording PC to VHS just isn't very appealing, and I really don't relish the thought of segmenting on VHS. Then the other option is get a DVD recorder, but that's not happening right away.

Sorry for rambling! Just my latest thoughts and delimmas...

I'm really interested in either getting those from you directly, or you could dump the lot of them onto Archive.org all at once or something.  What are you comfortable with doing?  Sorry for pestering you with questions, but I'm loving this game and I hate seeing it sit on your computer.  I'd like to see the run out of personal interest, and if your willing to submit the run, then I think it deserves its place on SDA.  Here's some ideas for getting the run to me or getting it on SDA:
[list]
[*]It'd take a while, but we could transfer a zipped folder of the videos over AIM
[*]I could set up an Archive.org item and then give you the ftp directory, and you then just drag and drop the files to the ftp directory
[*]You could send the files individually or in small groups over yousendit.com or another large file email service
[*]You could upload the files individually, or in zipped folders to filefront (I don't think filefront handles massive zip folders very well => individual/batches)
[*]You could install Hamachi, we connect through Hamachi, which simulates a LAN network, then you just drag and drop the files into my Shared Documents folder which will show up in your My Network Places folder
[*]OR you could post a sample of your HQ video in Tech Support and ask if your HQ encoded run is acceptable for submission as is - then PM Mike Uyama (now in charge of verification) to submit to SDA where the run deserves to be.
[/list]
Again, I hate to make a request of a runner, because ultimately its your time and your life, but I know things usually get done a lot quicker when there's some motivation or at least [i]someone[/i] expressing interest in it.

Thanks for coming back to the forums anyway... I figured you were gone for good!

On another topic, I just found out that this game was also released on the PS2! Go figure - the last PC game I wanted to run, Starfighter, I ended up getting for the PS2.  I want to get it just to try it out and see how in the world the game was puton a console.  That and if it's playable, and I end up wanting to make a run, my trusty VCR is ready as ever.

I mention my VCR because I recently got Fraps and have found that my poor laptop can't run Elite Force with Fraps without being jumpy or choppy, even at low graphics settings.  To work around this I was hoping that I could find a mod or something to record Quake III Arena demo files for the game, but so far I've had no luck.  Indeed demo recording is allowed in Holomatch (the separate multiplayer executable) but isn't mentioned anywhere in the main game.

I've tried the Q3A console commands that I've found online, but I haven't gotten any of that to work either.  I've got a few more ideas to try... I wasn't putting a filetype on the demo filename when I tried to record.  I was doing '/record test' instead of '/record test.dem or .dm3 or whatever.  I need to figure out the proper file extension and maybe that'll do it.  In the mean time I'm trying to find a universal Quake 3 demo recording program that works like Fraps or something except that it facilitates demo recording and playback for any Quake 3 Engine game - yeah I'll keep dreaming...

Anyways I've been playing more and kinda practicing running the game for fun.  I just wish I had a way to record PC stuff that my computer can handle.  Maybe I'll need to invest in an S-video to RCA adapter, but recording PC to VHS just isn't very appealing, and I really don't relish the thought of segmenting on VHS.  Then the other option is get a DVD recorder, but that's not happening right away.

Sorry for rambling!  Just my latest thoughts and delimmas...

JediTry

2007-06-12 09:34:32 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

You forgot the easiest option of all: send everything via snail mail on a DVD. My upload speed is nothing to work with when the files get larger than 100mb. Alternatively we could use Pando, as I've already installed it for testing.

Psonar

2007-06-13 09:08:02 am

Long live SF64!

I just installed Pando and I'm cool with using that or snail mail.

I'm still amazed at the number of internet utilities that keep popping up like that. Pando looks very promising - more user friendly and supportive of large files - and applicable to internet sharing or as an integrated e-mail add-on! I'm impressed. We can both try out Pando with a good transfer task that way too - I'm really interested to see how it works.

If you'd rather ship a load of DVDs then I can give you my address in a pm.

Oh - I also won an Ebay auction for Elite Force 1 on PS2 for like $7 total - I've just got to see this as a PS2 game. The fact that a Star Trek Voyager game made it all the way to my best console and I never knew about it is just maddeningly hilarious to me. I'll join the ranks of like 5 people who beat the game on the PS2.

JediTry

2007-06-13 02:00:14 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

You got a PM about your email address for Pando.

Psonar

2007-06-14 02:31:39 am

Long live SF64!

Thanks, I've started the downloads now ... it looks to be working like a charm!

I've been playing this a good bit and I'm constantly finding new little timesavers... for example I realized that when you have to go to the shuttlebay before the scavenger mission, you can shoot the glass in the little observation room and crouch through the window to drop down into the shuttle bay and then turn around to get to where the controls for fixing the docking clamps are.

Finding random 5 second timesavers like that all the time makes me eager to see your run to see what else you found - or of course to see if I've found anything new (doubtful).

What weapon did you use on the final boss? What was fastest / most effective? I'm not sure between the phaser rifle secondary fire, tetryon secondary fire, photon launcher and arc welder. Of course timing it would be the obvious way to tell, but I was just wondering which weapon you determined to be best for the final boss.

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2007-06-14 04:04:06 pm

2007-06-14 03:24:28 pm

Long live SF64!

I've enjoyed the videos thus far!

Ok - I've got some feedback on what I've recieved from you so far. You're obviously a more experienced FPS player than me, but I have found some stuff that could save some time and I'm impressed by a lot of stuff you used that I hadn't found.

General Stuff

What difficulty are you playing on? Is that on Challenging?
Good use of the phaser - I know that it's best used to conserve ammo for certain situations, but I tend to use my active weapon or the rifle when the phaser could be used.
Same goes for the Etherian bioweapon thing - it works great and saves ammo vs. using the scavenger weapon
The shadows in your run look odd... the way they are completely black making them very noticeable. Do you have simple shaders on or something? That or a compatibility issue with your newer graphics card and this ancient openGL game.
Nice phaser drawings... I do the same thing!

Level 1 - Borg

When gathering the Imod, I usually jump down like you did - snipe the borg with the rifle - hit the switch - then grab the Imod as I'm headed for the door. I get to the switch faster and I get to the door as the forcefield comes down before the borg get in the way.
Just after that, you don't have to shoot the borg that's after Chang...just strafe through the other doorway and go around.
Awesome 'trick' going across the platform before it gets shot ... I had been getting on one of the green things (no waiting actually) and then jumping down to the other side, which also required me to have 40+ health at that part. Dang that's nice... just walk across!
Did you shoot the console at the end to end the level? Didn't know you could do that!

Level 2 - Voyager (warp core+scavengers+team+Etherians)

Scavengers

When Chang gives you the phaser, you can start Foster's conversation sooner if you go straight to Foster...then you have plenty of time to grab the rifle and get healed before he finishes yabbering
When Tuvok calls for Foster, go stand next to Foster, then grab ammo to the left of the lift control, then go up the lift with Foster instead of running ahead of him, then he'll be right behind you and he'll open the Cargo Bay 2 door so you won't have to wait... your way gets you up there faster, but I think going up there with Foster is faster overall.Team
To make the team portion go as fast as possible you must trigger the 2 conversations in the hazard room, then you must be in the lounge when Biessman arrives to trigger his "Weeell, I've got an aWAY mission..." then you can watch as a few seconds later the hazard team will spontaneous start heading for the locker room door a few seconds after Biessman's conversation ends... then Biessman will appear at the end of the hall a few seconds after the team leaves the lockerroom, then they all grab weapons, as Foster starts heading for the pad in the transporter room and the team meets there to beam out. Triggering Biessman's talk sooner is the key - no additional conversations are necessary.Etherians
This portion is 100% timed... you can let all of the Etherians come out and they'll all disappear at the end - no need to burn up all your ammo, especially with sniper ammo. I usually stand to the left side and use the phaser rifle primary fire (2 hits per enemy for me on Normal - Are you on 'Challenging'?). Then I stock up the phaser rifle so that I leave the room with full ammo still - found that out attempting to glitch up to the transporter up on the pedestal.

Level 3 - Etherians

With more ammo it's easier to snipe through the first group of Etherians without slowing down.
Good work on the squid using the phaser - I hate those things
Your Etherian shotgun approach worked way better during the ambush portion where you and Chell have to shoot all the Etherians to open the door. I was stupidly using the Scavenger weapon there.
For the 'firefly fixing the transporter' sequence, you don't have to destroy the console they're next to, just take out the next one and the following one... then head back and get your ammo and health while the fireflies are busy... means less fighting in the transporter room - less fighting saves ammo, and using the downtime to stock up saves time.
Kill all the enemies in the hall way before going to the next room or activate the next room, but its way faster to kill the hallway enemies as they spawn near that console then clear the room where Chell stays behind...
When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second! You can get out of the room much earlier if you can activate Chell's sequence and quickly run back upstairs - very cool - I actually got stuck in the forcefield once allowing the next room to torment me while I waited!
After seeing Foster, I think if you get to the final door as fast as possible it shortcuts the dialogue even before Foster gets there and then you can whipe out the following Etherians while Foster talks.

Level 4 - Voyager (team+shuttlebay)

You skipped the Docter! I didn't know you could do that!
Your team portion was good - only 2 conversations to activate.
The Equipment Room is directly across from the briefing room, so the top exit is fastest (that 1 time). Then you only need to pick up 1 weapon and leave - after the turbolift you'll have all the weapons regardless (this works for every mission I think). Then in the shuttlebay, you can shoot at the glass and enter the shuttlebay through that window dropping you just outside the door to the clamps. It's an awkward jump+crouch type thing, so your way may be better.

Level 5 - Scavengers

You got through killing fewer enemies than I usually did - great work!
Nice creative way up to the door switch - I usually shoot the beam holding up the hanging platform of boxes which gives an easy way up...and which might be faster...it's somewhat hidden, so I didn't know if you even knew about that.
An interesting trade-off... you skipped first isodesium near the Klingons which was just an inch away from you (didn't know you could skip that), but you took time to ride the lift over to the last isodesium just before the Federation portion, which I always just skip!
For the grates that fall over, you can move right through them without the need to phaser them...
I always just used Scavenger Rifle on the bug critters and never stopped moving (you used phaser) - though that's likely part of how you're able to have so much more ammo later - I'm usually struggling by the time I hit the Federation section.
In the Malon (sp?) section, you only have to hit the 1 console across the room - the 'distraction' console you hit first isn't necessary.
You can get on the lift to the Federation section before it turns around and proceed straight to the turbolift skipping Odell's isodesium... if the game requires you have 3 isodesium at this point, you could have alternately collected the first one above the Klingons.

Sorry for all the criticisms, but I also want to give you lots of praise... for anything I had found faster, you had found something else that blew me away! That was more comments than I was expecting to write! Keep those videos coming as you get time to send them! I'm still trying to find a good way to record - maybe a friend will let me just use his computer. If not, I'll need to get an adapter to send it to my VCR. I can get some half decent video at 320x240, 15 fps, so I might do some of that if you want to see how I handle certain situations. I can't play as well with the slightly choppy graphics though, so it'd be frustrating for anything other than short clips.

If anyone else wants to see Jeditry's videos, then I guess I or Jeditry could host the .pando files online allowing folks to download them the same way I did. I'd also be glad to put the actual videos on filefront if there is a request for that.

Great work Jeditry! Is pando working well on your end? Does it take forever to upload the files?

edit: getting the next 3 now - will watch and comment tonight after work

I've enjoyed the videos thus far!

Ok - I've got some feedback on what I've recieved from you so far.  You're obviously a more experienced FPS player than me, but I have found some stuff that could save some time and I'm impressed by a lot of stuff you used that I hadn't found.

[b]General Stuff[/b]
[list]
[*]What difficulty are you playing on? Is that on Challenging?
[*]Good use of the phaser - I know that it's best used to conserve ammo for certain situations, but I tend to use my active weapon or the rifle when the phaser could be used. 
[*]Same goes for the Etherian bioweapon thing - it works great and saves ammo vs. using the scavenger weapon
[*]The shadows in your run look odd... the way they are completely black making them very noticeable.  Do you have simple shaders on or something?  That or a compatibility issue with your newer graphics card and this ancient openGL game.
[*]Nice phaser drawings... I do the same thing!
[/list]

[b]Level 1 - Borg[/b]
[list]
[*]When gathering the Imod, I usually jump down like you did - snipe the borg with the rifle - hit the switch - then grab the Imod as I'm headed for the door. I get to the switch faster and I get to the door as the forcefield comes down before the borg get in the way.
[*]Just after that, you don't have to shoot the borg that's after Chang...just strafe through the other doorway and go around.
[*]Awesome 'trick' going across the platform before it gets shot ... I had been getting on one of the green things (no waiting actually) and then jumping down to the other side, which also required me to have 40+ health at that part. Dang that's nice... just walk across!
[*]Did you shoot the console at the end to end the level? Didn't know you could do that!
[/list]

[b]Level 2 - Voyager (warp core+scavengers+team+Etherians)[/b]
[list]
[i]Scavengers[/i]
[*]When Chang gives you the phaser, you can start Foster's conversation sooner if you go straight to Foster...then you have plenty of time to grab the rifle and get healed before he finishes yabbering
[*]When Tuvok calls for Foster, go stand next to Foster, then grab ammo to the left of the lift control, then go up the lift with Foster instead of running ahead of him, then he'll be right behind you and he'll open the Cargo Bay 2 door so you won't have to wait... your way gets you up there faster, but I think going up there with Foster is faster overall.
[i]Team[/i]
[*]To make the team portion go as fast as possible you must trigger the 2 conversations in the hazard room, then you must be in the lounge when Biessman arrives to trigger his "Weeell, I've got an aWAY mission..." then you can watch as a few seconds later the hazard team will spontaneous start heading for the locker room door a few seconds after Biessman's conversation ends... then Biessman will appear at the end of the hall a few seconds after the team leaves the lockerroom, then they all grab weapons, as Foster starts heading for the pad in the transporter room and the team meets there to beam out.  Triggering Biessman's talk sooner is the key - no additional conversations are necessary.
[i]Etherians[/i]
[*]This portion is 100% timed... you can let all of the Etherians come out and they'll all disappear at the end - no need to burn up all your ammo, especially with sniper ammo.  I usually stand to the left side and use the phaser rifle primary fire (2 hits per enemy for me on Normal - Are you on 'Challenging'?).  Then I stock up the phaser rifle so that I leave the room with full ammo still - found that out attempting to glitch up to the transporter up on the pedestal.
[/list]

[b]Level 3 - Etherians[/b]
[list]
[*]With more ammo it's easier to snipe through the first group of Etherians without slowing down.
[*]Good work on the squid using the phaser - I hate those things
[*]Your Etherian shotgun approach worked way better during the ambush portion where you and Chell have to shoot all the Etherians to open the door.  I was stupidly using the Scavenger weapon there.
[*]For the 'firefly fixing the transporter' sequence, you don't have to destroy the console they're next to, just take out the next one and the following one... then head back and get your ammo and health while the fireflies are busy... means less fighting in the transporter room - less fighting saves ammo, and using the downtime to stock up saves time.
[*]Kill all the enemies in the hall way before going to the next room or activate the next room, but its way faster to kill the hallway enemies as they spawn near that console then clear the room where Chell stays behind...
[*]When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second!  You can get out of the room much earlier if you can activate Chell's sequence and quickly run back upstairs - very cool - I actually got stuck in the forcefield once allowing the next room to torment me while I waited!
[*]After seeing Foster, I think if you get to the final door as fast as possible it shortcuts the dialogue even before Foster gets there and then you can whipe out the following Etherians while Foster talks.
[/list]

[b]Level 4 - Voyager (team+shuttlebay)[/b]
[list]
[*]You skipped the Docter! I didn't know you could do that!
[*]Your team portion was good - only 2 conversations to activate.
[*]The Equipment Room is directly across from the briefing room, so the top exit is fastest (that 1 time).  Then you only need to pick up 1 weapon and leave - after the turbolift you'll have all the weapons regardless ([i]this works for every mission I think[/i]).  Then in the shuttlebay, you can shoot at the glass and enter the shuttlebay through that window dropping you just outside the door to the clamps. It's an awkward jump+crouch type thing, so your way may be better.
[/list]

[b]Level 5 - Scavengers[/b]
[list]
[*]You got through killing fewer enemies than I usually did - great work!
[*]Nice creative way up to the door switch - I usually shoot the beam holding up the hanging platform of boxes which gives an easy way up...and which might be faster...it's somewhat hidden, so I didn't know if you even knew about that.
[*]An interesting trade-off... you skipped first isodesium near the Klingons which was just an inch away from you (didn't know you could skip that), but you took time to ride the lift over to the last isodesium just before the Federation portion, which I always just skip!
[*]For the grates that fall over, you can move right through them without the need to phaser them...
[*]I always just used Scavenger Rifle on the bug critters and never stopped moving (you used phaser) - though that's likely part of  how you're able to have so much more ammo later - I'm usually struggling by the time I hit the Federation section.
[*]In the Malon (sp?) section, you only have to hit the 1 console across the room - the 'distraction' console you hit first isn't necessary.
[*]You can get on the lift to the Federation section before it turns around and proceed straight to the turbolift skipping Odell's isodesium... if the game requires you have 3 isodesium at this point, you could have alternately collected the first one above the Klingons.
[/list]

Sorry for all the criticisms, but I also want to give you lots of praise... for anything I had found faster, you had found something else that blew me away!  That was more comments than I was expecting to write!  Keep those videos coming as you get time to send them!  I'm still trying to find a good way to record - maybe a friend will let me just use his computer.  If not, I'll need to get an adapter to send it to my VCR.  I can get some half decent video at 320x240, 15 fps, so I might do some of that if you want to see how I handle certain situations.  I can't play as well with the slightly choppy graphics though, so it'd be frustrating for anything other than short clips.

If anyone else wants to see Jeditry's videos, then I guess I or Jeditry could host the .pando files online allowing folks to download them the same way I did.  I'd also be glad to put the actual videos on filefront if there is a request for that.

Great work Jeditry!  Is pando working well on your end?  Does it take forever to upload the files?

edit: getting the next 3 now - will watch and comment tonight after work

JediTry

2007-06-14 04:54:27 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

Pando luckily is fairly fast at the moment, so they're going out much better than I initially thought. Anyway they better do, because I'm going to move around the world in 2 weeks, which'll mean no more time for quite a bit.

Thanks for all the comments and praise! I must admit that sometimes I don't even understand what you're talking about, as the run is quite old by now (close to 2 years I think). Nevertheless I'll try to answer whatever I can.

No, I'm not a very experienced FPS player any longer, and the controls are not great in this game, so I was slightly worried the run would be rubbish...
How much do you think your tips could save? A few looked like they might save seconds, which is not enough to try to re-do the run. If you're going for it though by all means use anything you can find out!

General Stuff
As far as I remember the run is on normal.
The phaser is very useful for all those little tasks. I'm using it less because of the ammo, it's more that it is very powerful on secondary and I could also get a continuous beam, which would've helped had I missed the first time by an inch. The stretching of the fingers to have the right weapos ready at the right time surely wasn't healthy, but I survived. Grin

The shadows in my run look like crap because I played on a first generation centrino laptop, so I had to turn anything fancy off to get the framerate in fraps up to a playable level. Sometimes you can hear the background music sounding a bit strange, which means the CPU was at 100%.
Oh yes, the pahser drawings... there's a nice one in the next big mission. Coming through Pando soon.

Level 1 - Borg
When gathering the Imod I got stuck with the Borg in front of the switch more times than I wanted to, so in order to keep the segment going I decided to sacrifice the 1 second and kill him. I also used to run into the forcefield every time, so on that particular try I just happened to decide to get the health passing by. Probably lost half a second there.

As for the Borg and Chang it might just be my subjective impression, but I always had the feeling that it took the team longer to move on if the guy died there, so I just shot him running through. Unfortunately I got stuck for a fraction of a second, but it's more cosmetics than time.

The platform crossing could possibly even go smoother, but I only pulled that off once. One single time I managed to cross it without getting thrown up to hit the opposite wall. It's another 2 seconds I sacrificed to keep the amount of segments down.

And yes, I did shoot the console at the end. It's an alternate way of ending the level and you don't have to go through all the whining. I worked out the perfect spot for shooting the force field generator (was it?) on the right side, then only having to turn around and shooting the console, but at the end of the long segment I didn't have the concentration to pull it off perfectly. Fraction of a second gone there.

Level 2 - Voyager (warp core+scavengers+team+Etherians)

Scavengers

That was very stupid, to not run up to Foster immediately. I knew I should've restarted the segment, but I thought I would just use it for practice. The rest turned out that well though that I decided to keep the attempt.

The section when Tuvok calls Foster I was told is timed, so it makes absolutely no difference whether you run up without him and wait around or go with him. Subjectively speaking it seems to be faster doing it the slower way, but the time doesn't change. If you have different information shoot zabb.

Team

The team section was rubbish, I know that. I simply didn't have the nerve to waste time trying out the fastest way. Again I was told it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you trigger certain conversations. Can't remember if I did that. Should you do a run make it better! These waiting around on Voyager portions suck.

Etherians

I never tried to just leave them be. I just got annoyed by the annoying team conversation when I didn't kill them, so I just did it. Ammo also was not really an issue there.

Level 3 - Etherians

I was thinking about the squid things... there must be some way to get through there without having to shoot them. I remember trying once and dying, so I just shot them next time round. Maybe you could try shooting those on one side only and see if you can avoid the ones on the other side. Another not very well planned part in my run.

In the ambush portion I figured staying in a place where they could only attack from one side would be better for health. They also seem to be fixated on you, so luckily they came one after the other attacking. That part could easily be improved by 5 seconds, which were again sacrificed because overall it was the best attempt I had.

In the 'firefly fixing the transporter' sequence I thought I only destroyed the necessary ones, didn't I? The first one is necessary because they don't seem to "see" around the corner, and the 2nd one is the one we need fixed anyway. I might be wrong though.

When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second, but I was told not really. The graphics make it look like it went down, but you cannot actually go through. I got stuck as well, but that's as far as you get. If you can get through let zabb know. Grin

Level 4 - Voyager (team+shuttlebay)

I skipped the Doctor? Sure. You can always skip the Doctor. The Doctor is optional. Even later in the game.

The team portion was fairly fast this time. It's timed anyway.

I didn't know you'd get all the weapons even if you didn't pick them up. Interesting. The part in the shuttlebay I think is equally fast, soI went for the easier one. Just before entering the shuttlebay I wish I hadn't tried to run through the wrong door, but that's more of a cosmetic fault again.

Level 5 - Scavengers

The beginning only works that fast if you exactly go that route. Kill the first one, go right around the box and run through. If you go throught the middle 2 guys will stand in your way, and by the time you killed those a third one will appear.

The way up the door switch was a major pain. I obviously had auto-running switched on and I naver managed to jump up there. The secret is to hold the slow-walking key while jumping up there, then it works like a charm. And no, I didn't even know about shooting the beam.

You can skip all the isodesiums except one, as far as I know. That is the middle one I take while running through. Now if you're telling me I didn't have to wait for the lift and riding over to take the last one, then I'm going to kill somebody. I stupidly never tried to just go to the door directly. That is very dumb. Very very dumb. In that case just get the 2nd one, it's on the way. In that case I am also sure that after the cutscene you could climb the ladder and blindly jump on the platform while it is moving leftwards. Saves a second of waiting time.

And yes, in this segment the phaser is for saving ammo. It usually was very reliable in killing the bug critters without having to stop, but in attempt no.50 I couldn't be asked to restart just because I got stuck once.

I know the thing about the 'distraction' console, but by that time it was already too late. Segment was wrapped up and I couldn't be bothered. Grin

All right, 3 new segments are already on their way. I really hope you can do a faster run using stuff you saw in my one. Alternatively I might get around to submitting it to SDA eventually, but it is not very likely. Anyway now that you'll most likely get it, it might find its way around somehow.

The Pando files are only active for about a week or so, so you'll have to find another way unless somebody is really fast...

Keep the comments going, and perhaps some great run will come of it eventually.

Pando luckily is fairly fast at the moment, so they're going out much better than I initially thought. Anyway they better do, because I'm going to move around the world in 2 weeks, which'll mean no more time for quite a bit.

Thanks for all the comments and praise! I must admit that sometimes I don't even understand what you're talking about, as the run is quite old by now (close to 2 years I think). Nevertheless I'll try to answer whatever I can.

No, I'm not a very experienced FPS player any longer, and the controls are not great in this game, so I was slightly worried the run would be rubbish... 
How much do you think your tips could save? A few looked like they might save seconds, which is not enough to try to re-do the run. If you're going for it though by all means use anything you can find out!

General Stuff 
As far as I remember the run is on normal.
The phaser is very useful for all those little tasks. I'm using it less because of the ammo, it's more that it is very powerful on secondary and I could also get a continuous beam, which would've helped had I missed the first time by an inch. The stretching of the fingers to have the right weapos ready at the right time surely wasn't healthy, but I survived. ;D
The shadows in my run look like crap because I played on a first generation centrino laptop, so I had to turn anything fancy off to get the framerate in fraps up to a playable level. Sometimes you can hear the background music sounding a bit strange, which means the CPU was at 100%.
Oh yes, the pahser drawings... there's a nice one in the next big mission. Coming through Pando soon.

Level 1 - Borg 
When gathering the Imod I got stuck with the Borg in front of the switch more times than I wanted to, so in order to keep the segment going I decided to sacrifice the 1 second and kill him. I also used to run into the forcefield every time, so on that particular try I just happened to decide to get the health passing by. Probably lost half a second there.

As for the Borg and Chang it might just be my subjective impression, but I always had the feeling that it took the team longer to move on if the guy died there, so I just shot him running through. Unfortunately I got stuck for a fraction of a second, but it's more cosmetics than time.

The platform crossing could possibly even go smoother, but I only pulled that off once. One single time I managed to cross it without getting thrown up to hit the opposite wall. It's another 2 seconds I sacrificed to keep the amount of segments down.

And yes, I did shoot the console at the end. It's an alternate way of ending the level and you don't have to go through all the whining. I worked out the perfect spot for shooting the force field generator (was it?) on the right side, then only having to turn around and shooting the console, but at the end of the long segment I didn't have the concentration to pull it off perfectly. Fraction of a second gone there.

Level 2 - Voyager (warp core+scavengers+team+Etherians)

Scavengers

That was very stupid, to not run up to Foster immediately. I knew I should've restarted the segment, but I thought I would just use it for practice. The rest turned out that well though that I decided to keep the attempt.

The section when Tuvok calls Foster I was told is timed, so it makes absolutely no difference whether you run up without him and wait around or go with him. Subjectively speaking it seems to be faster doing it the slower way, but the time doesn't change. If you have different information shoot zabb.

Team

The team section was rubbish, I know that. I simply didn't have the nerve to waste time trying out the fastest way. Again I was told it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you trigger certain conversations. Can't remember if I did that. Should you do a run make it better! These waiting around on Voyager portions suck.

Etherians

I never tried to just leave them be. I just got annoyed by the annoying team conversation when I didn't kill them, so I just did it. Ammo also was not really an issue there.
 
Level 3 - Etherians

I was thinking about the squid things... there must be some way to get through there without having to shoot them. I remember trying once and dying, so I just shot them next time round. Maybe you could try shooting those on one side only and see if you can avoid the ones on the other side. Another not very well planned part in my run.

In the ambush portion I figured staying in a place where they could only attack from one side would be better for health. They also seem to be fixated on you, so luckily they came one after the other attacking. That part could easily be improved by 5 seconds, which were again sacrificed because overall it was the best attempt I had.

In the 'firefly fixing the transporter' sequence I thought I only destroyed the necessary ones, didn't I? The first one is necessary because they don't seem to "see" around the corner, and the 2nd one is the one we need fixed anyway. I might be wrong though.

When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second, but I was told not really. The graphics make it look like it went down, but you cannot actually go through. I got stuck as well, but that's as far as you get. If you can get through let zabb know. ;D

Level 4 - Voyager (team+shuttlebay)

I skipped the Doctor? Sure. You can always skip the Doctor. The Doctor is optional. Even later in the game.

The team portion was fairly fast this time. It's timed anyway.

I didn't know you'd get all the weapons even if you didn't pick them up. Interesting. The part in the shuttlebay I think is equally fast, soI went for the easier one. Just before entering the shuttlebay I wish I hadn't tried to run through the wrong door, but that's more of a cosmetic fault again.
 
Level 5 - Scavengers

The beginning only works that fast if you exactly go that route. Kill the first one, go right around the box and run through. If you go throught the middle 2 guys will stand in your way, and by the time you killed those a third one will appear.

The way up the door switch was a major pain. I obviously had auto-running switched on and I naver managed to jump up there. The secret is to hold the slow-walking key while jumping up there, then it works like a charm. And no, I didn't even know about shooting the beam.

You can skip all the isodesiums except one, as far as I know. That is the middle one I take while running through. Now if you're telling me I didn't have to wait for the lift and riding over to take the last one, then I'm going to kill somebody. I stupidly never tried to just go to the door directly. That is very dumb. Very very dumb. In that case just get the 2nd one, it's on the way. In that case I am also sure that after the cutscene you could climb the ladder and blindly jump on the platform while it is moving leftwards. Saves a second of waiting time.

And yes, in this segment the phaser is for saving ammo. It usually was very reliable in killing the bug critters without having to stop, but in attempt no.50 I couldn't be asked to restart just because I got stuck once.

I know the thing about the 'distraction' console, but by that time it was already too late. Segment was wrapped up and I couldn't be bothered. ;D

All right, 3 new segments are already on their way. I really hope you can do a faster run using stuff you saw in my one. Alternatively I might get around to submitting it to SDA eventually, but it is not very likely. Anyway now that you'll most likely get it, it might find its way around somehow.

The Pando files are only active for about a week or so, so you'll have to find another way unless somebody is really fast...

Keep the comments going, and perhaps some great run will come of it eventually.

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2007-06-14 06:24:13 pm

2007-06-14 06:22:32 pm

Long live SF64!

Holy crap I didn't realize how much I was typing Shocked

... I haven't had too many 2-post long messages before, but here you go!

Quote:

Pando luckily is fairly fast at the moment, so they're going out much better than I initially thought. Anyway they better do, because I'm going to move around the world in 2 weeks, which'll mean no more time for quite a bit.

Just get them to me and I'll handle stuff from there!

Quote:

Thanks for all the comments and praise! I must admit that sometimes I don't even understand what you're talking about, as the run is quite old by now (close to 2 years I think). Nevertheless I'll try to answer whatever I can.

I figured vague comments like "go around the blue thing just left of the mark on the wall" wouldn't make much sense after 2 years - I'm impressed with what you do remember.

Quote:

How much do you think your tips could save? A few looked like they might save seconds, which is not enough to try to re-do the run. If you're going for it though by all means use anything you can find out!

Most of my comments were, like you say, cosmetic or only save a split second and it's so hard to get everything right in a long segment, so I don't fault you for any minor mistakes - that's part of running.

How much time? The ultimate question... who knows, I know you lost 15 to 30 seconds in some major places like the last isodesium, the voyager team portion, the forcefield flicker... just as a general round number I think saving 5 minutes off your entire run might be possible. The game is so linear though, that it will take several of those 15-30 second timesavers and lots of optimizations to get it down by that much.

Quote:

General Stuff
As far as I remember the run is on normal.

Good - that makes me feel better!

Quote:

The phaser is very useful for all those little tasks [...] I could also get a continuous beam, which would've helped had I missed the first time by an inch.

Good thinking... half my attempts end with missing a shot on something important - like blowing up the set of explosives on the Borg ship at the beginning.

Quote:

As for the Borg and Chang it might just be my subjective impression, but I always had the feeling that it took the team longer to move on if the guy died there, so I just shot him running through. Unfortunately I got stuck for a fraction of a second, but it's more cosmetics than time.

Your team doesn't have to progress... Chang says "Thanks, I'll get Odell back to the station" eventually but there's no effect on the run...you leave them in the dust pretty quickly either way. Cosmetic - you're right.

Quote:

The platform crossing could possibly even go smoother, but I only pulled that off once. One single time I managed to cross it without getting thrown up to hit the opposite wall.

I'll have to work on that... I wonder if shooting it yourself (Chang is actually shooting one of those power couplings or whatever) can launch you earlier avoiding the wall that way...

Quote:

The section when Tuvok calls Foster I was told is timed, so it makes absolutely no difference whether you run up without him and wait around or go with him. Subjectively speaking it seems to be faster doing it the slower way, but the time doesn't change. If you have different information shoot zabb.

I've got your video as 1 example, and I can easily record/time that bit and then compare the two. That'd be great if we could find zabb and set up an online holomatch to frag zabb!

Quote:

The team section was rubbish, I know that. I simply didn't have the nerve to waste time trying out the fastest way. Again I was told it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you trigger certain conversations. Can't remember if I did that. Should you do a run make it better! These waiting around on Voyager portions suck.

I still can't figure out how to trigger the waiting for Tuvok (Either I'm getting close to figuring it out, or it's just plain timed, or the timer starts after a certain conversation) and especially the bit where you wait for them to see something out the window... that's usually when I go make dinner or go to the bathroom or something! I'll investigate whether or not that's timed as well.

Quote:

I was thinking about the squid things... there must be some way to get through there without having to shoot them. I remember trying once and dying, so I just shot them next time round. Maybe you could try shooting those on one side only and see if you can avoid the ones on the other side.

Yeah, they suck... they have a delayed death and then they explode causing massive collateral damage, which is also triggered by getting too close... I'll save there and experiment with different things... maybe I can jump off the middle column to shortcut a few and then take out the minimum to survive getting up the ramp or something - only 2-5 seconds saved either way.

Holy crap I didn't realize how much I was typing :o ... I haven't had too many 2-post long messages before, but here you go!

[quote]Pando luckily is fairly fast at the moment, so they're going out much better than I initially thought. Anyway they better do, because I'm going to move around the world in 2 weeks, which'll mean no more time for quite a bit.[/quote]
Just get them to me and I'll handle stuff from there!

[quote]Thanks for all the comments and praise! I must admit that sometimes I don't even understand what you're talking about, as the run is quite old by now (close to 2 years I think). Nevertheless I'll try to answer whatever I can.[/quote]
I figured vague comments like "go around the blue thing just left of the mark on the wall" wouldn't make much sense after 2 years - I'm impressed with what you do remember.

[quote]How much do you think your tips could save? A few looked like they might save seconds, which is not enough to try to re-do the run. If you're going for it though by all means use anything you can find out![/quote]
Most of my comments were, like you say, cosmetic or only save a split second and it's so hard to get everything right in a long segment, so I don't fault you for any minor mistakes - that's part of running.

How much time? The ultimate question... who knows, I know you lost 15 to 30 seconds in some major places like the last isodesium, the voyager team portion, the forcefield flicker... just as a general round number I think saving 5 minutes off your entire run [i]might[/i] be possible.  The game is so linear though, that it will take several of those 15-30 second timesavers and lots of optimizations to get it down by that much.

[quote]General Stuff 
As far as I remember the run is on normal.[/quote]
Good - that makes me feel better!

[quote]The phaser is very useful for all those little tasks [...] I could also get a continuous beam, which would've helped had I missed the first time by an inch. [/quote]
Good thinking... half my attempts end with missing a shot on something important - like blowing up the set of explosives on the Borg ship at the beginning.

[quote]As for the Borg and Chang it might just be my subjective impression, but I always had the feeling that it took the team longer to move on if the guy died there, so I just shot him running through. Unfortunately I got stuck for a fraction of a second, but it's more cosmetics than time.[/quote]
Your team doesn't have to progress... Chang says "Thanks, I'll get Odell back to the station" eventually but there's no effect on the run...you leave them in the dust pretty quickly either way.  Cosmetic - you're right.

[quote]The platform crossing could possibly even go smoother, but I only pulled that off once. One single time I managed to cross it without getting thrown up to hit the opposite wall.[/quote]
I'll have to work on that... I wonder if shooting it yourself (Chang is actually shooting one of those power couplings or whatever) can launch you earlier avoiding the wall that way...

[quote]The section when Tuvok calls Foster I was told is timed, so it makes absolutely no difference whether you run up without him and wait around or go with him. Subjectively speaking it seems to be faster doing it the slower way, but the time doesn't change. If you have different information shoot zabb.[/quote]
I've got your video as 1 example, and I can easily record/time that bit and then compare the two.  That'd be great if we could find zabb and set up an online holomatch to frag zabb!

[quote]The team section was rubbish, I know that. I simply didn't have the nerve to waste time trying out the fastest way. Again I was told it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you trigger certain conversations. Can't remember if I did that. Should you do a run make it better! These waiting around on Voyager portions suck.[/quote]
I still can't figure out how to trigger the waiting for Tuvok (Either I'm getting close to figuring it out, or it's just plain timed, or the timer starts after a certain conversation) and especially the bit where you wait for them to see something out the window... that's usually when I go make dinner or go to the bathroom or something!  I'll investigate whether or not that's timed as well.

[quote]I was thinking about the squid things... there must be some way to get through there without having to shoot them. I remember trying once and dying, so I just shot them next time round. Maybe you could try shooting those on one side only and see if you can avoid the ones on the other side.[/quote]
Yeah, they suck... they have a delayed death and then they explode causing massive collateral damage, which is also triggered by getting too close... I'll save there and experiment with different things... maybe I can jump off the middle column to shortcut a few and then take out the minimum to survive getting up the ramp or something - only 2-5 seconds saved either way.

Psonar

2007-06-14 06:22:45 pm

Long live SF64!

Quote:

In the ambush portion I figured staying in a place where they could only attack from one side would be better for health. They also seem to be fixated on you, so luckily they came one after the other attacking. That part could easily be improved by 5 seconds, which were again sacrificed because overall it was the best attempt I had.

Agreed - I wish there was an easy way to only kill the ones that come from the sides of that big room - they're the ones that must die to activate the door, but the ones from the hallway rush you too much to ignore.

Quote:

When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second, but I was told not really. The graphics make it look like it went down, but you cannot actually go through. I got stuck as well, but that's as far as you get. If you can get through let zabb know. Grin

I've gone through at that point many times... you just have to be running at/into the forcefield as it flickers...

Chell won't inspect the console unless you are down there, so I'll stand up by the door shooting enemies like you did, then I'll hop down to activate Chell and book it back up to the doorway to push through when it flickers....Frag Zabb!

Quote:

I skipped the Doctor? Sure. You can always skip the Doctor. The Doctor is optional. Even later in the game.

That's the only place that the doctor is one of your objectives (I think) and he actually freezes you in place while he examines you, so I was convinced it was a required objective, but nope!

I noticed you never tap TAB to get rid of the Mission Info message... that thing annoys the crap out of me so I started getting used to tapping TAB when my left finger became free.

Quote:

I didn't know you'd get all the weapons even if you didn't pick them up. Interesting.

I loved finding that one! Very cool timesaver - you just have to clear out the objective, your weapons loadout is predefined every mission, which also helps with segmenting because certain points in the game are the same nearly every time.

Quote:

The way up the door switch was a major pain. I obviously had auto-running switched on and I never managed to jump up there. The secret is to hold the slow-walking key while jumping up there, then it works like a charm. And no, I didn't even know about shooting the beam.

Cool - I'll show you my way... so when the "Hunter" portion begins (haven't seen the video) is there still a hanging platform of boxes near where that portion begins, or are they on the ground automatically at that point.

Quote:

You can skip all the isodesiums except one, as far as I know. That is the middle one I take while running through.

Good to know - I usually grabbed the first 3, one of which was out of the way by 5 seconds.

Quote:

Now if you're telling me I didn't have to wait for the lift and riding over to take the last one, then I'm going to kill somebody. I stupidly never tried to just go to the door directly. That is very dumb. Very very dumb.

LOL

That's got to be the biggest (and most frustrating) timesaver in your run so far... no worries dude... it'll be ok!

I found that by accidentally forgetting to get it once and then realizing later on the mission info that I had a failed objective... sweet!

Quote:

In that case just get the 2nd one, it's on the way. In that case I am also sure that after the cutscene you could climb the ladder and blindly jump on the platform while it is moving leftwards. Saves a second of waiting time.

Yep! That's what I do!

Quote:

I really hope you can do a faster run using stuff you saw in my one. Alternatively I might get around to submitting it to SDA eventually, but it is not very likely. Anyway now that you'll most likely get it, it might find its way around somehow.

I hope I can get a run made as well. I've still got some options for recording, so I'll try to make it happen.

Quote:

Keep the comments going, and perhaps some great run will come of it eventually.

I figured commenting here would be better than emailing each other... this way it's all documented on the SDA forums for any future runners to utilize.

whew... lots of comments!

[quote]In the ambush portion I figured staying in a place where they could only attack from one side would be better for health. They also seem to be fixated on you, so luckily they came one after the other attacking. That part could easily be improved by 5 seconds, which were again sacrificed because overall it was the best attempt I had.[/quote]
Agreed - I wish there was an easy way to only kill the ones that come from the sides of that big room - they're the ones that must die to activate the door, but the ones from the hallway rush you too much to ignore.

[quote]When Chell says 'this console might open that door up there' the forcefield goes down for a second, but I was told not really. The graphics make it look like it went down, but you cannot actually go through. I got stuck as well, but that's as far as you get. If you can get through let zabb know. ;D[/quote]
I've gone through at that point many times... you just have to be running at/into the forcefield as it flickers...

Chell won't inspect the console unless you are down there, so I'll stand up by the door shooting enemies like you did, then I'll hop down to activate Chell and book it back up to the doorway to push through when it flickers....Frag Zabb!

[quote]I skipped the Doctor? Sure. You can always skip the Doctor. The Doctor is optional. Even later in the game.[/quote]
That's the only place that the doctor is one of your objectives (I think) and he actually freezes you in place while he examines you, so I was convinced it was a required objective, but nope!

I noticed you never tap TAB to get rid of the Mission Info message... that thing annoys the crap out of me so I started getting used to tapping TAB when my left finger became free.

[quote]I didn't know you'd get all the weapons even if you didn't pick them up. Interesting.[/quote]
I loved finding that one! Very cool timesaver - you just have to clear out the objective, your weapons loadout is predefined every mission, which also helps with segmenting because certain points in the game are the same nearly every time.

[quote]The way up the door switch was a major pain. I obviously had auto-running switched on and I never managed to jump up there. The secret is to hold the slow-walking key while jumping up there, then it works like a charm. And no, I didn't even know about shooting the beam.[/quote]
Cool - I'll show you my way... so when the "Hunter" portion begins (haven't seen the video) is there still a hanging platform of boxes near where that portion begins, or are they on the ground automatically at that point.

[quote]You can skip all the isodesiums except one, as far as I know. That is the middle one I take while running through. [/quote]
Good to know - I usually grabbed the first 3, one of which was out of the way by 5 seconds.

[quote]Now if you're telling me I didn't have to wait for the lift and riding over to take the last one, then I'm going to kill somebody. I stupidly never tried to just go to the door directly. That is very dumb. Very very dumb.[/quote]
LOL :D That's got to be the biggest (and most frustrating) timesaver in your run so far... no worries dude... it'll be ok!

I found that by accidentally forgetting to get it once and then realizing later on the mission info that I had a failed objective... sweet!

[quote]In that case just get the 2nd one, it's on the way. In that case I am also sure that after the cutscene you could climb the ladder and blindly jump on the platform while it is moving leftwards. Saves a second of waiting time.[/quote]
Yep! That's what I do!

[quote]I really hope you can do a faster run using stuff you saw in my one. Alternatively I might get around to submitting it to SDA eventually, but it is not very likely. Anyway now that you'll most likely get it, it might find its way around somehow.[/quote]
I hope I can get a run made as well.  I've still got some options for recording, so I'll try to make it happen.

[quote]Keep the comments going, and perhaps some great run will come of it eventually.[/quote]
I figured commenting here would be better than emailing each other... this way it's all documented on the SDA forums for any future runners to utilize.

whew... lots of comments!

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2007-06-14 07:34:21 pm

2007-06-14 07:24:34 pm

Long live SF64!

I recorded the part in level 2 with Foster opening the door...

Foster Test Video

The quality recording I can get looks a little better before going through Movie Maker and being streamed on Filefront in youtube fashion, but the actual gameplay is even choppier than the video. From Tuvok's message to the door opening is 32 seconds and in yours I think it was 33-34 seconds, so basically no difference... the time it takes to fight everyone varies much more than that.

I'll make more of these tactics samples as time allows to document where I might do things different from you. I'll likely put your runs on filefront or something if that's OK, that way lurkers or newcomers will have easy access to them.

Edit:
I've got a Borg sample now too:

Borg Sample

I could've been more fluid, but you get the idea.

JediTry

2007-06-14 09:05:04 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

I see you're making progress. Excellent. There're a couple very nice things in the coming segments, so I think you'll get quite a few new ideas. The 3 segments uploading now are doing fairly well, the subsequent 2 parts are relatively small (under 100mb), so perhaps we can reach 2/3 of the game by (my) tomorrow. Cool.

"Go around the blue thing just left of the mark on the wall"... hilarious... Grin

I did re-watch some of the segments while reading your comments, so it's not all plain memory.

Much of the run could be optimized. In the last big level f.e. I never managed to pull off a totally perfect zero gravity jump. But that's how it is after 200 attempts. You either go nuts or you keep a reasonably well done segment... The places I just screwed up though are big enough timesavers to warrant a new run. Perhaps there'll even be more in the following bits.

And it looks bad for submitting the run if I can't even remember what difficulty it is on... Where are those comments, damn... I'm almost sure it's on normal.

Ah, yes, at the beginning the team doesn't have to follow. I forgot. That's probably because the later missions suck ass in that regard. Angry

The platform crossing I pulled off was even better than what you're imagining now. I actually managed to run straight to the other side with the boost of the explosion only slightly hitting me in the back, so I'd get propelled forwards,but not high enough upwards to hit the wall. I think it only works if you're running that close to the left edge that you're almost falling down. Shooting the power coupling would technically be counter-productive, as you need the bridge to be intact while crossing it.

Zabb said he had the code for the game and that conversation bit was timed. Then again, he said a lot of other things as well that turned out more or less accurate... like force field doors... Roll Eyes

You don't have to do all objectives. In fact you only have to do certain ones. As you must've noticed I already skipped one in the first Voyager mission, then the doctor, the isodesium, and later I take a shortcut in the holodeck mission.

The mission info. I don't really care about it very much,anyway it goes away rather quickly. I never considered making it go away, as my fingers were mostly set on certain keys at the beginning of most segments. I've always had the impression I'd lose some time bothering with stuff like that.

As far as I can tell the room looks the same with the Hunter as the first time. I also go up the same way after killing him.

The last isodesium. I clearly remember trying to access the door once and not being let in. I was terribly frustrated and was going crazy (as I'd done a very good run until there), only to realize that I'd forgotten to pick that thing up. As you might have noticed I tried to pull the switch, because I was convinced - for a second - that the door swtich was there. Looks silly, and that's the reason. So I am a bit surprised you're telling me it's not necessary to get that one. My memory must be failing me on this one.

Yeah, let's go on here. I don't mind. As long as I've got the time I'll answer. If you can record, great, otherwise we might somehow be able to submit my thing. It'll be the laughing stock of the news section, but whatever.

Going to watch your clips now.

I see you're making progress. Excellent. There're a couple very nice things in the coming segments, so I think you'll get quite a few new ideas. The 3 segments uploading now are doing fairly well, the subsequent 2 parts are relatively small (under 100mb), so perhaps we can reach 2/3 of the game by (my) tomorrow. Cool.

"Go around the blue thing just left of the mark on the wall"... hilarious... ;D I did re-watch some of the segments while reading your comments, so it's not all plain memory.

Much of the run could be optimized. In the last big level f.e. I never managed to pull off a totally perfect zero gravity jump. But that's how it is after 200 attempts. You either go nuts or you keep a reasonably well done segment... The places I just screwed up though are big enough timesavers to warrant a new run. Perhaps there'll even be more in the following bits.

And it looks bad for submitting the run if I can't even remember what difficulty it is on... Where are those comments, damn... I'm almost sure it's on normal.

Ah, yes, at the beginning the team doesn't have to follow. I forgot. That's probably because the later missions suck ass in that regard. >:(

The platform crossing I pulled off was even better than what you're imagining now. I actually managed to run straight to the other side with the boost of the explosion only slightly hitting me in the back, so I'd get propelled forwards,but not high enough upwards to hit the wall. I think it only works if you're running that close to the left edge that you're almost falling down. Shooting the power coupling would technically be counter-productive, as you need the bridge to be intact while crossing it.
 
Zabb said he had the code for the game and that conversation bit was timed. Then again, he said a lot of other things as well that turned out more or less accurate... like force field doors... ::)
 
You don't have to do all objectives. In fact you only have to do certain ones. As you must've noticed I already skipped one in the first Voyager mission, then the doctor, the isodesium, and later I take a shortcut in the holodeck mission.

The mission info. I don't really care about it very much,anyway it goes away rather quickly. I never considered making it go away, as my fingers were mostly set on certain keys at the beginning of most segments. I've always had the impression I'd lose some time bothering with stuff like that.

As far as I can tell the room looks the same with the Hunter as the first time. I also go up the same way after killing him.

The last isodesium. I clearly remember trying to access the door once and not being let in. I was terribly frustrated and was going crazy (as I'd done a very good run until there), only to realize that I'd forgotten to pick that thing up. As you might have noticed I tried to pull the switch, because I was convinced - for a second - that the door swtich was there. Looks silly, and that's the reason. So I am a bit surprised you're telling me it's not necessary to get that one. My memory must be failing me on this one.
 
Yeah, let's go on here. I don't mind. As long as I've got the time I'll answer. If you can record, great, otherwise we might somehow be able to submit my thing. It'll be the laughing stock of the news section, but whatever.

Going to watch your clips now.

JediTry

2007-06-14 09:14:23 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

I'll also just double post.

The Borg part looks a lot smoother than mine. It might be harder once you try to do the whole level in one go though. That was kind of my problem. I didn't want to over-segment, but I also couldn't do the big levels in one. What you get is a mix of segments in slighlty weird places, but some stretches that just don't seem optimized.

The Foster part feels more or less the same as mine. If it really is 2 seconds faster obvioulsy use yours!

Psonar

2007-06-15 06:57:59 pm

Long live SF64!

Well I've had a busy day or so...

I'm officially set up to record from PC to VHS now. I got an S-video to RCA adapter and a 3.5mm to RCA adapter and an S-video cable. That plus some RCA cable I have lying around and I'm able to send my computer's audio and video through the VCR and out to my Speaker system and TV. What's interesting about the setup is that I've found I enjoy playing the game on the TV rather than staring down at my laptop screen. That and running the image on my laptop and out the S-video at the same time causes the laptop's image to be a lower resolution and kinda bland looking.

So I moved the coffee table and setup my office chair and two tray tables in the middle of the living room - placing me in the middle of my speaker system. The laptop is on one tray table and my mouse is on another, which acts as a gigantic mousepad Cheesy

and tends to collect cans, bowls, and remote controls. I close my laptop halfway so that my left hand has access to the keyboard, but the laptop screen doesn't obstruct my view of the TV. Oh and my laptop is actually plugged into my Bedroom with a 25 ft. extension cord to reduce the buzz that occurs in my speakers. And at last I am set up to record!

Now ready for the better news?

I recorded my first segment! I spent several hours last night and this morning trying to get a near perfect segment recorded, and it finally came through. I think it's about 5 or more seconds faster than Jeditry's first segment, though I haven't figured out exactly how to time these things. That and there's a lot of load times mid-segment, so direct time comparison isn't fair. The most important thing is that it is smooth and fast.

Here's a preview of my first segment.

That youtube video is horrible quality because I was recording the TV with a video camera, compressing with Windows Movie Maker, then uploading to youtube, so you're seeing it through about 3 layers of video poodoo.

I don't know if I'll continue posting segments because it's time consuming to charge batteries for the camera, record the thing playing back in real time, transfer to computer, compress with WMM, write comments for the youtubers, upload to youtube, and post about it here. Once Jeditry becomes less active, I'll probably only give updates as it becomes convenient unless there's more popularity (lurkers, now's the time to join in!). I burned up too much time posting practice videos and whatnot on my last run which had about zero popularity, so I'm trying to be a little smarter about how public I am with the details of running.

Jeditry: I've recieved all but the latest video (part 9?). I've got some comments and questions, but I haven't gotten around to watching the videos a second time to write comments. They do look very good however! I haven't played as much past the first set of comments, so my comments will be shorter for sure. Just curious, what time zone are you in? I'm in American central time, so it's about 1pm now.

More segments are on the way hopefully!

Well I've had a busy day or so...

I'm officially set up to record from PC to VHS now.  I got an S-video to RCA adapter and a 3.5mm to RCA adapter and an S-video cable.  That plus some RCA cable I have lying around and I'm able to send my computer's audio and video through the VCR and out to my Speaker system and TV.  What's interesting about the setup is that I've found I enjoy playing the game on the TV rather than staring down at my laptop screen.  That and running the image on my laptop and out the S-video at the same time causes the laptop's image to be a lower resolution and kinda bland looking.

So I moved the coffee table and setup my office chair and two tray tables in the middle of the living room - placing me in the middle of my speaker system.  The laptop is on one tray table and my mouse is on another, which acts as a gigantic mousepad :D and tends to collect cans, bowls, and remote controls.  I close my laptop halfway so that my left hand has access to the keyboard, but the laptop screen doesn't obstruct my view of the TV.  Oh and my laptop is actually plugged into my Bedroom with a 25 ft. extension cord to reduce the buzz that occurs in my speakers.  And at last I am set up to record!

Now ready for the better news?

I recorded my first segment! I spent several hours last night and this morning trying to get a near perfect segment recorded, and it finally came through.  I think it's about 5 or more seconds faster than Jeditry's first segment, though I haven't figured out exactly how to time these things.  That and there's a lot of load times mid-segment, so direct time comparison isn't fair.  The most important thing is that it is smooth and fast.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8-gR1SZVsY]Here's a preview of my first segment.[/url]

That youtube video is horrible quality because I was recording the TV with a video camera, compressing with Windows Movie Maker, then uploading to youtube, so you're seeing it through about 3 layers of video poodoo.

I don't know if I'll continue posting segments because it's time consuming to charge batteries for the camera, record the thing playing back in real time, transfer to computer, compress with WMM, write comments for the youtubers, upload to youtube, and post about it here. Once Jeditry becomes less active, I'll probably only give updates as it becomes convenient unless there's more popularity (lurkers, now's the time to join in!).  I burned up too much time posting practice videos and whatnot on my last run which had about zero popularity, so I'm trying to be a little smarter about how public I am with the details of running.

Jeditry: I've recieved all but the latest video (part 9?). I've got some comments and questions, but I haven't gotten around to watching the videos a second time to write comments.  They do look very good however!  I haven't played as much past the first set of comments, so my comments will be shorter for sure.  Just curious, what time zone are you in?  I'm in American central time, so it's about 1pm now.

More segments are on the way hopefully!

JediTry

2007-06-15 10:02:42 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

Making these videos looks and sounds like a major pain, so I think you shouldn't bother with it. If you're faster than me it means you're already going well, and if nobody else has any input it's a waste of your time you could better spend on trying to improve the run.

First thing I noticed in your level 1 was the very long hesitation before the big jump to the lower level. That jump should be very easy. Just run straight and duck.

Generally your run looks a lot smoother than mine, so I guess you're playing on a much better machine than I did. Very good. The loading screens prove that assumption. Or did you speed everything up in movie maker? It kinda looks too fast.

You also don't need to stick around the health and ammo stations. Just hit them running by. After practicing it for a couple of minutes it should work every time. Not a bit time-saver, but it certainly looks cooler.

The bridge is excellent. I still think it could go a tiny bit faster running more to the left, but this was very good already.

The 2nd health station - I think - is a waste of time.

And the end of the level, especially shooting the force field node (on the right) could be better.

Ok, I'm being anal as well. Sorry. Grin

Overall I think you could shave 15 seconds off, which might not be worth the trouble.

About Pando: segment 9.1 is by far the biggest with >400mb, so it'll take some time. I'll let it run through the night again, together with some more files, so perhaps I can upload the whole thing by Sunday. I'm in central Europe, so it's GMT+1, 11:05 now.

Making these videos looks and sounds like a major pain, so I think you shouldn't bother with it. If you're faster than me it means you're already going well, and if nobody else has any input it's a waste of your time you could better spend on trying to improve the run.

First thing I noticed in your level 1 was the very long hesitation before the big jump to the lower level. That jump should be very easy. Just run straight and duck.

Generally your run looks a lot smoother than mine, so I guess you're playing on a much better machine than I did. Very good. The loading screens prove that assumption. Or did you speed everything up in movie maker? It kinda looks too fast.

You also don't need to stick around the health and ammo stations. Just hit them running by. After practicing it for a couple of minutes it should work every time. Not a bit time-saver, but it certainly looks cooler.

The bridge is excellent. I still think it could go a tiny bit faster running more to the left, but this was very good already.

The 2nd health station - I think - is a waste of time.

And the end of the level, especially shooting the force field node (on the right) could be better.

Ok, I'm being anal as well. Sorry. ;D Overall I think you could shave 15 seconds off, which might not be worth the trouble.

About Pando: segment 9.1 is by far the biggest with >400mb, so it'll take some time. I'll let it run through the night again, together with some more files, so perhaps I can upload the whole thing by Sunday. I'm in central Europe, so it's GMT+1, 11:05 now.

Psonar

Edit history:

Psonar: 2007-06-16 02:04:30 am

2007-06-15 11:10:13 pm

Long live SF64!

Quote:

First thing I noticed in your level 1 was the very long hesitation before the big jump to the lower level. That jump should be very easy. Just run straight and duck.

Yes - oh my gosh do I know...my game freezes EVERY (freaking!) time there if I don't wait. I can show a 10 minute video of it freezing everytime if you want. I tried turning down the settings for the game, but if I move smoothly through that portion, it freezes 99% of the time. ~~The sample video I posted earlier was one of the only times it has ever not froze.~~ [That was because I loaded the autosave just before the grate...it's the autosave process greatly contributes to the bug] during hours of running that segment I hate having it freeze 15 seconds in like 10 times in a row, so I tried to find a way around it to compromise and the only thing that works is moving up to the grate and waiting for 2 seconds. Believe me, I hate that spot, so for my own sanity I decided to sacrifice a few seconds to avoid the bug altogether and then make the next part really good looking.

Edit: I think crouching while pushing the grate is part of the problem. Turns out that portion only requires crouching for getting past some beams. I've been able to make it through with better luck if I only crouch quickly twice through there to get past the obstacles and then actually "run" as I move through the grate, though it still freezes half the time. I will very likely remake the segment just to fix that part, because it looks so bad with the 2 second wait. I could also try re-installing the game, but I doubt that'll change anything.

Quote:

Generally your run looks a lot smoother than mine, so I guess you're playing on a much better machine than I did. Very good. The loading screens prove that assumption. Or did you speed everything up in movie maker? It kinda looks too fast.

I'm running the game with nothing else running on the computer with max graphics settings and I'm not having to run Fraps, so that gives me an advantage. MovieMaker was showing an exact copy of what I recorded with the video camera minus a few seconds of garbage at the end. I guess I could make an impressive run with speedX2 on the whole thing!

Quote:

You also don't need to stick around the health and ammo stations. Just hit them running by. After practicing it for a couple of minutes it should work every time. Not a bit time-saver, but it certainly looks cooler.

I was having issues with that... when I hit it while running I end up leaning since use+sidestep = lean in this game. I've got "use" mapped to a button on my mouse so that might be the issue. I can do the hit and run method, I just tend to compromise a little when trying to complete a whole segment. Segments ending with missing a health station kinda suck.

Quote:

The 2nd health station - I think - is a waste of time.

If you mean the one right before the big platform at the end it isn't a waste of time because I'm waiting for the platform to come down which I activate (by running into the room) as fast as possible. I just grab the health out of habit while waiting instead of shooting up borg like in your run.

Quote:

And the end of the level, especially shooting the force field node (on the right) could be better.

I had yet to get an entire good segment recorded, and I had lost previous segments from trying to do that too fast, so yeah, I compromised. I never actually practiced that shot enough because I rarely made it to the end... I'd restart everytime I made a mistake.

Quote:

Ok, I'm being anal as well. Sorry. Grin

Overall I think you could shave 15 seconds off, which might not be worth the trouble.

Really? 15 seconds? Dang... that would be worth the trouble, but TAS-like perfection is always too high a calling. I want to wait until I'm atleast halfway through the run and can see the light at the end of the tunnel before I start trying to aim for Borg perfection. If I'm going to run this thing then I'm not going to spend 2 weeks on a segment, because I just don't have the time. If this run isn't done by the end of the summer, then I can't do it because of school... once Christmas break comes, VHS submissions are out, so that's where I'm at.

Quote:

About Pando: segment 9.1 is by far the biggest with >400mb, so it'll take some time. I'll let it run through the night again, together with some more files, so perhaps I can upload the whole thing by Sunday. I'm in central Europe, so it's GMT+1, 11:05 now.

Several times I get "waiting for sender" while downloading, so I know I'm catching up to you when that happens. It's good to know what it's doing on your end so that I can wait and run Pando once I know you've got more uploaded. Don't think I'm calling you slow though... I'm plenty patient for your run!

Edit: added a comment on the game freezing problem
Edit1: added a strikethrough and comment, also about the bug

[quote]First thing I noticed in your level 1 was the very long hesitation before the big jump to the lower level. That jump should be very easy. Just run straight and duck. [/quote]
Yes - oh my gosh do I know...my game freezes EVERY (freaking!) time there if I don't wait.  I can show a 10 minute video of it freezing everytime if you want.  I tried turning down the settings for the game, but if I move smoothly through that portion, it freezes 99% of the time.  [s]The sample video I posted earlier was one of the only times it has ever not froze.[/s] [[i]That was because I loaded the autosave just before the grate...it's the autosave process greatly contributes to the bug[/i]] during hours of running that segment I [i]hate[/i] having it freeze 15 seconds in like 10 times in a row, so I tried to find a way around it to compromise and the only thing that works is moving up to the grate and waiting for 2 seconds.  Believe me, I hate that spot, so for my own sanity I decided to sacrifice a few seconds to avoid the bug altogether and then make the next part really good looking.

Edit: I think crouching while pushing the grate is part of the problem. Turns out that portion only requires crouching for getting past some beams. I've been able to make it through with better luck if I only crouch quickly twice through there to get past the obstacles and then actually "run" as I move through the grate, though it still freezes half the time.  I will very likely remake the segment just to fix that part, because it looks so bad with the 2 second wait.  I could also try re-installing the game, but I doubt that'll change anything.

[quote]Generally your run looks a lot smoother than mine, so I guess you're playing on a much better machine than I did. Very good. The loading screens prove that assumption. Or did you speed everything up in movie maker? It kinda looks too fast.[/quote]
I'm running the game with nothing else running on the computer with max graphics settings and I'm not having to run Fraps, so that gives me an advantage.  MovieMaker was showing an exact copy of what I recorded with the video camera minus a few seconds of garbage at the end.  I guess I could make an impressive run with speedX2 on the whole thing!

[quote]You also don't need to stick around the health and ammo stations. Just hit them running by. After practicing it for a couple of minutes it should work every time. Not a bit time-saver, but it certainly looks cooler.[/quote]
I was having issues with that... when I hit it while running I end up leaning since use+sidestep = lean in this game.  I've got "use" mapped to a button on my mouse so that might be the issue.  I can do the hit and run method, I just tend to compromise a little when trying to complete a whole segment.  Segments ending with missing a health station kinda suck.

[quote]The 2nd health station - I think - is a waste of time.[/quote]If you mean the one right before the big platform at the end it isn't a waste of [i]time[/i] because I'm waiting for the platform to come down which I activate (by running into the room) as fast as possible.  I just grab the health out of habit while waiting instead of shooting up borg like in your run.

[quote]And the end of the level, especially shooting the force field node (on the right) could be better.[/quote]
I had yet to get an entire good segment recorded, and I had lost previous segments from trying to do that too fast, so yeah, I compromised.  I never actually practiced that shot enough because I rarely made it to the end... I'd restart everytime I made a mistake.

[quote]Ok, I'm being anal as well. Sorry. ;D Overall I think you could shave 15 seconds off, which might not be worth the trouble.[/quote]Really? 15 seconds? Dang... that would be worth the trouble, but TAS-like perfection is always too high a calling.  I want to wait until I'm atleast halfway through the run and can see the light at the end of the tunnel before I start trying to aim for Borg perfection.  If I'm going to run this thing then I'm not going to spend 2 weeks on a segment, because I just don't have the time.  If this run isn't done by the end of the summer, then I can't do it because of school... once Christmas break comes, VHS submissions are out, so that's where I'm at.

[quote]About Pando: segment 9.1 is by far the biggest with >400mb, so it'll take some time. I'll let it run through the night again, together with some more files, so perhaps I can upload the whole thing by Sunday. I'm in central Europe, so it's GMT+1, 11:05 now.[/quote]
Several times I get "waiting for sender" while downloading, so I know I'm catching up to you when that happens.  It's good to know what it's doing on your end so that I can wait and run Pando once I know you've got more uploaded.  Don't think I'm calling you slow though... I'm plenty patient for your run!

Edit: added a comment on the game freezing problem
Edit1: added a strikethrough and comment, also about the bug

JediTry

2007-06-16 02:25:25 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

And now you should have the whole run. 18 files, 2.72gb. I noticed the segment titled "level 9.1 - continued" doesn't have any downloads, but perhaps Pando just doesn't show it accurately. Happens sometimes. If you missed anything let me know!

Now that you mention it I remember the freezing issues before that jump. At some point I had figured out what triggered it, but unfortunately I can't remember it at all. If it comes to mind I'll let you know. I do however think to remember it had something to do with the crouching issue, as you already mentioned. Re-installing, lowering the settings and any other technical measure won't help. I tried it all.

I also never use sidestep. I just can't work with it. At the beginning I always missed the recharge consoles, but it really is just a matter of trying it a couple of times.

If you're happy with level 1 I suggest keeping it. Since my run is not submitted anyway it doesn't matter exactly what time you got. Maybe it's better to do a run and see whether you get competition or want to improve it yourself later on.

And now you should have the whole run. 18 files, 2.72gb. I noticed the segment titled "level 9.1 - continued" doesn't have any downloads, but perhaps Pando just doesn't show it accurately. Happens sometimes. If you missed anything let me know!

Now that you mention it I remember the freezing issues before that jump. At some point I had figured out what triggered it, but unfortunately I can't remember it at all. If it comes to mind I'll let you know. I do however think to remember it had something to do with the crouching issue, as you already mentioned. Re-installing, lowering the settings and any other technical measure won't help. I tried it all.

I also never use sidestep. I just can't work with it. At the beginning I always missed the recharge consoles, but it really is just a matter of trying it a couple of times. 
 
If you're happy with level 1 I suggest keeping it. Since my run is not submitted anyway it doesn't matter exactly what time you got. Maybe it's better to do a run and see whether you get competition or want to improve it yourself later on.

Psonar

2007-06-16 03:12:06 pm

Long live SF64!

Quote:

And now you should have the whole run. 18 files, 2.72gb. I noticed the segment titled "level 9.1 - continued" doesn't have any downloads, but perhaps Pando just doesn't show it accurately. Happens sometimes. If you missed anything let me know!

Hmm, I seem to have never got an email for 9.1. Also, the latest one I have is 11.3, which is just before the boss, so it looks like I'm missing 11.4/12 depending on what you named it. I checked and I have 16 files fully downloaded, so I'm definitely just needing those 2.

Quote:

Now that you mention it I remember the freezing issues before that jump. At some point I had figured out what triggered it, but unfortunately I can't remember it at all. If it comes to mind I'll let you know. I do however think to remember it had something to do with the crouching issue, as you already mentioned. Re-installing, lowering the settings and any other technical measure won't help. I tried it all.

Sorry for getting a little worked up about that... I'm starting to figure out how to get around it. I also really want to jump to the left like I do in order to vaporize the borg, hit the switch and grab the I-mod as I go - I just love it when it works right, but getting the fall to line up from the vent down to the borg is a lot more difficult that just going straight forward like you did. I first thought you had to go through the corner of the hole in the floor.

Quote:

I also never use sidestep. I just can't work with it. At the beginning I always missed the recharge consoles, but it really is just a matter of trying it a couple of times.

I'm getting a lot better with it. The key for me is to tap the 'use' button instead of holding it for a half-second. Holding it accidentally is what causes leaning to occur.

Quote:

If you're happy with level 1 I suggest keeping it. Since my run is not submitted anyway it doesn't matter exactly what time you got. Maybe it's better to do a run and see whether you get competition or want to improve it yourself later on.

No, I'm going to make another one. I'm requirin that it have a smooth jump after the grate, a boosted non-upward jump where the walkway falls out (I've found by jumping off the edge leftwards just before it blows, I can get blown sideways and land at the left edge of the doorway), seemlessly dropping down and shooting the borg at the lift console and activating that console, and a good final 2 shots of course.

It seems like a lot to shoot for, but I've gotten close enough a few times that I'm pretty sure I can get all that to work in the same segment, and it would be freaking beautiful to watch as a first segment!

I'm really impressed how very speedrunnable the first segment is - it's got a lot going on in it for sure.

Another thing is that I'm thinking about saving such that the segments reflect the naming structure of the game. So right when I finish the Borg intro, once I'm on the Bridge of Voyager, I'll save it as "Run1_Voy1" and quit. Then when the team beams to the Etherian ship, I'll go grab the health (health is low at that point), save it as "Run1_Stasis1" and quit. That way, as long as I get full health from the health thing at the end of segment 2 and don't go back to it later, I could technically patch the 3rd segment in from any Stasis1 save, or insert a different 2nd segment as well. I'm not sure how that will work throughout the game, but it's a valid segmenting technique, and I think it might divide the run up more logically for viewers.

Thanks for everything so far Jeditry, it's been great exchanging info and files so far. I'm glad you found your way back - did you have an e-mail notification set up?

[quote]And now you should have the whole run. 18 files, 2.72gb. I noticed the segment titled "level 9.1 - continued" doesn't have any downloads, but perhaps Pando just doesn't show it accurately. Happens sometimes. If you missed anything let me know![/quote]
Hmm, I seem to have never got an email for 9.1.  Also, the latest one I have is 11.3, which is just before the boss, so it looks like I'm missing 11.4/12 depending on what you named it. I checked and I have 16 files fully downloaded, so I'm definitely just needing those 2.

[quote]Now that you mention it I remember the freezing issues before that jump. At some point I had figured out what triggered it, but unfortunately I can't remember it at all. If it comes to mind I'll let you know. I do however think to remember it had something to do with the crouching issue, as you already mentioned. Re-installing, lowering the settings and any other technical measure won't help. I tried it all.[/quote]
Sorry for getting a little worked up about that... I'm starting to figure out how to get around it.  I also really want to jump to the left like I do in order to vaporize the borg, hit the switch and grab the I-mod as I go - I just love it when it works right, but getting the fall to line up from the vent down to the borg is a lot more difficult that just going straight forward like you did.  I first thought you had to go through the corner of the hole in the floor.

[quote]I also never use sidestep. I just can't work with it. At the beginning I always missed the recharge consoles, but it really is just a matter of trying it a couple of times.[/quote]
I'm getting a lot better with it.  The key for me is to tap the  'use' button instead of holding it for a half-second.  Holding it accidentally is what causes leaning to occur.
 
[quote]If you're happy with level 1 I suggest keeping it. Since my run is not submitted anyway it doesn't matter exactly what time you got. Maybe it's better to do a run and see whether you get competition or want to improve it yourself later on.[/quote]
No, I'm going to make another one. I'm requirin that it have a smooth jump after the grate, a boosted non-upward jump where the walkway falls out (I've found by jumping off the edge leftwards just before it blows, I can get blown sideways and land at the left edge of the doorway), seemlessly dropping down and shooting the borg at the lift console and activating that console, and a good final 2 shots of course.

It seems like a lot to shoot for, but I've gotten close enough a few times that I'm pretty sure I can get all that to work in the same segment, and it would be freaking beautiful to watch as a first segment!

I'm really impressed how very speedrunnable the first segment is - it's got a lot going on in it for sure.

Another thing is that I'm thinking about saving such that the segments reflect the naming structure of the game.  So right when I finish the Borg intro, once I'm on the Bridge of Voyager, I'll save it as "Run1_Voy1" and quit.  Then when the team beams to the Etherian ship, I'll go grab the health (health is low at that point), save it as "Run1_Stasis1" and quit. That way, as long as I get full health from the health thing at the end of segment 2 and don't go back to it later, I could technically patch the 3rd segment in from any Stasis1 save, or insert a different 2nd segment as well.  I'm not sure how that will work throughout the game, but it's a valid segmenting technique, and I think it might divide the run up more logically for viewers.

Thanks for everything so far Jeditry, it's been great exchanging info and files so far.  I'm glad you found your way back - did you have an e-mail notification set up?

JediTry

Edit history:

JediTry: 2007-06-16 04:14:56 pm

2007-06-16 04:12:04 pm

Semi-retired FPS expert

Nope, 11.3 is the last one. It includes the final boss. You are missing the 2 9.1 parts, which is odd. Annoyingly one of those is 450mb big... Oh well, I'm re-sending right now, so let me know whether you got it or not.

I think I used the space key for "use", so I more or less jsut run straight and hit it when I'm right on top of the health station. I think you don't even need to face it for it to work, nor to actually touch it. It should already work in close vicinity.

Good luck with your first segment! I think the aims you set yourself are all achievable, so go for it. If some little thing doesn't work out perfectly it'll still be better than doing everything half-assed (as in my run)... Grin

And yes, it's a great segment for speedrunning. Actually it's not a bad game for running overall. There are a couple of sweet moments later on. Quite a lot is boring though.

The idea about your saving system is not bad, but I'd like to make a few comments so you don't get the same problems I had. DO NOT RELY ON AUTOSAVES! The game only keeps the most recent autosave and deletes everything before. That screwed up a big part of my run. So I think your way is good, going up to a certain point, saving, and using that spot to go on from. You'll have to watch out where exactly you do decide to save, because mostly on Voyager your weapons and ammo stay the same as in the previous mission. Having different stats, even though you'll not fire a single shot, would technically not be allowed on SDA.
I also recommend to always save in spots where you are moving. If you save in a place such as the beginning of a level, the briefing section, after saving you'll be able to move on a lot faster, which is kind of cheating. This is because the briefing goes on while saving.

Good luck again, and I hope you can make progress quickly. As for me, I was never gone. I've been reading the forum and watching the runs since I first found the site. The problem is that I've been busy with life and therefore almost stopped playing games, which limits my usefulness in commenting. I'm also not up to date with newer games... Still, I've been around.

Nope, 11.3 is the last one. It includes the final boss. You are missing the 2 9.1 parts, which is odd. Annoyingly one of those is 450mb big... Oh well, I'm re-sending right now, so let me know whether you got it or not.

I think I used the space key for "use", so I more or less jsut run straight and hit it when I'm right on top of the health station. I think you don't even need to face it for it to work, nor to actually touch it. It should already work in close vicinity.

Good luck with your first segment! I think the aims you set yourself are all achievable, so go for it. If some little thing doesn't work out perfectly it'll still be better than doing everything half-assed (as in my run)... ;D
 
And yes, it's a great segment for speedrunning. Actually it's not a bad game for running overall. There are a couple of sweet moments later on. Quite a lot is boring though.
 
The idea about your saving system is not bad, but I'd like to make a few comments so you don't get the same problems I had. DO NOT RELY ON AUTOSAVES! The game only keeps the most recent autosave and deletes everything before. That screwed up a big part of my run. So I think your way is good, going up to a certain point, saving, and using that spot to go on from. You'll have to watch out where exactly you do decide to save, because mostly on Voyager your weapons and ammo stay the same as in the previous mission. Having different stats, even though you'll not fire a single shot, would technically not be allowed on SDA.
I also recommend to always save in spots where you are moving. If you save in a place such as the beginning of a level, the briefing section, after saving you'll be able to move on a lot faster, which is kind of cheating. This is because the briefing goes on while saving.

Good luck again, and I hope you can make progress quickly. As for me, I was never gone. I've been reading the forum and watching the runs since I first found the site. The problem is that I've been busy with life and therefore almost stopped playing games, which limits my usefulness in commenting. I'm also not up to date with newer games... Still, I've been around.

Psonar

2007-06-18 06:41:00 pm

Long live SF64!

Well I managed a first segment that included everything I wanted it to have, but something annoying came up. From hitting 'Engage' to shooting the console was 2:12 on my earlier attempt. In the recent attempt it was about 2:24. I carefully timed the action and the loading screens, and it turns out the action portions are 3 seconds faster, but I lose time in the loading screens.

Of course loading screens aren't really fair because someone with a nice computer could always beat someone else, but what really matters is the quality of the run. The recent attempt, while faster and having better execution of the tricky stuff, has some slip-ups like getting stuck on things and such that make it look a bit sloppy overall.

That in addition to the save times problem means that I'll continue working on a solid first segment. I'll also try to further minimize my CPU usage while running - maybe that accounts for the difference. Also I've noticed that things load a bit faster if they were loaded recently. Of course both attempts were done after like an hour of playing, so I don't see that working there. I don't have any time to record on weekends, so I'm now back into the groove of recording during the weeknights and I will either have a first segment this week or I'll settle for the most recent attempt.

This means I get to record over the first attempt, but I have to be careful not to record over the 2nd attempt which is 30 minutes into the tape. I knew VHS would be tricky!

Also, I got 9.1 parts 1 and 2 a while ago, but I haven't had a good chance to watch them. I need to go ahead and comment to you on the later videos before you leave or whatever. I look forward to doing some of that and some recording tonight.

Well I managed a first segment that included everything I wanted it to have, but something annoying came up.  From hitting 'Engage' to shooting the console was 2:12 on my earlier attempt.  In the recent attempt it was about 2:24.  I carefully timed the action and the loading screens, and it turns out the action portions are 3 seconds faster, but I lose time in the loading screens.

Of course loading screens aren't really fair because someone with a nice computer could always beat someone else, but what really matters is the quality of the run.  The recent attempt, while faster and having better execution of the tricky stuff, has some slip-ups like getting stuck on things and such that make it look a bit sloppy overall.

That in addition to the save times problem means that I'll continue working on a solid first segment.  I'll also try to further minimize my CPU usage while running - maybe that accounts for the difference.  Also I've noticed that things load a bit faster if they were loaded recently.  Of course both attempts were done after like an hour of playing, so I don't see that working there.  I don't have any time to record on weekends, so I'm now back into the groove of recording during the weeknights and I will either have a first segment this week or I'll settle for the most recent attempt.

This means I get to record over the first attempt, but I have to be careful not to record over the 2nd attempt which is 30 minutes into the tape.  I knew VHS would be tricky!

Also, I got 9.1 parts 1 and 2 a while ago, but I haven't had a good chance to watch them.  I need to go ahead and comment to you on the later videos before you leave or whatever.  I look forward to doing some of that and some recording tonight.