Recording PS4 and Xbox One - Neither will support composite or component out!

2013-06-13 06:18:40 am

Wiiaboo

I dunno if this is old by now, couldn't find it. Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1g86nb/confirmed_neither_ps4_nor_xbox_one_will_support/

What does this mean for us? Well, if both consoles also have HDCP on their sole HDMI output, even for games (which seems likely to me), it probably means you now have to invest in a good, lag-free HDCP stripper along with everything else in your capture rig (or get a card that already does that). Even if there's no HDCP, goodbye Dazzle and any other affordable capture solution.

Of course, there's also the streaming capabilities of both consoles. Maybe that will he high quality enough for us to take the VODs of as SDA-quality recordings? If PS4's is exclusively Ustream though I don't have high hopes.

Thread title:

presjpolk

2013-06-13 06:33:24 am

HELLO!

PS4's is Ustream and Xbox One's is Twitch. Not an option.

Hsanrb

2013-06-13 07:30:04 am

It depends how good and how long the local recordings can be. Until the systems come out we don't even know how much you can record whether its 30m or 30 hours. I'm not a technological wizard so chances are this might make SDA recordings easier since you local record, transfer to a big external drive and send that to Nate. No DVD's to record to, no capture card and fussing with settings. Just turn on game, start recording and go. Until we get our hands on a console, we can't pass judgement and wait for the first tech support quality test threads. Chances are this fuss will pass by and SDA will find a compromise unless something with the quality is a major no-no (like compression found in Xsplit)

About the console streaming, Not sure why your hopes are down over Ustream. They mixed live and recorded together in the browser, but if thats the only complaint I can find than its a pretty damn good service. I've found some amazing streams on both sides and I'm sure with PS4 it will be the same as it is now.

It depends how good and how long the local recordings can be. Until the systems come out we don't even know how much you can record whether its 30m or 30 hours. I'm not a technological wizard so chances are this might make SDA recordings easier since you local record, transfer to a big external drive and send that to Nate. No DVD's to record to, no capture card and fussing with settings. Just turn on game, start recording and go. Until we get our hands on a console, we can't pass judgement and wait for the first tech support quality test threads. Chances are this fuss will pass by and SDA will find a compromise unless something with the quality is a major no-no (like compression found in Xsplit)

About the console streaming, Not sure why your hopes are down over Ustream. They mixed live and recorded together in the browser, but if thats the only complaint I can find than its a pretty damn good service. I've found some amazing streams on both sides and I'm sure with PS4 it will be the same as it is now.

Kiyura

2013-06-13 07:47:10 am

Wiiaboo

Quote from Hsanrb:

It depends how good and how long the local recordings can be. Until the systems come out we don't even know how much you can record whether its 30m or 30 hours.

Um, I never heard anything about being able to record to a local file, only about sharing video directly to Youtube or something, and also streaming to (hopefully not just) Ustream. And the share function has been reported to be limited to 15 minutes or so. No source that I can dig up for either of those though.

Quote from Hsanrb:

About the console streaming, Not sure why your hopes are down over Ustream.

Have you used Ustream in the past? There's a reason most of us hate it - it's a pretty shoddy and unreliable service. The influx of traffic from thousands of aspiring FPS streamers will probably not improve it.

Also I forgot about this in the first post, but I also remember seeing articles about PS4 publishers being able to limit certain parts of their game from being recorded. That would be pretty bad news for speedrunning too. (Again, no real source.)

[quote=Hsanrb]It depends how good and how long the local recordings can be. Until the systems come out we don't even know how much you can record whether its 30m or 30 hours.[/quote]

Um, I never heard anything about being able to record to a local file, only about sharing video directly to Youtube or something, and also streaming to (hopefully not just) Ustream. And the share function has been reported to be limited to 15 minutes or so. No source that I can dig up for either of those though.

[quote=Hsanrb]About the console streaming, Not sure why your hopes are down over Ustream.[/quote]

Have you used Ustream in the past? There's a reason most of us hate it - it's a pretty shoddy and unreliable service. The influx of traffic from thousands of aspiring FPS streamers will probably not improve it.

Also I forgot about this in the first post, but I also remember seeing articles about PS4 publishers being able to limit certain parts of their game from being recorded. That would be pretty bad news for speedrunning too. (Again, no real source.)

MrLonghair

Edit history:

MrLonghair: 2013-06-22 11:25:45 am

2013-06-22 11:20:39 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

HDCP is stripped out for $20 to $40 depending on the capture device, and there's a thread gathering information on capture devices over in tech support where I hope to see what those <$100 internal HDMI capture cards are like.

There'll be up to 56% less pixels to record if we can fool the XBoxOne/PS4 we only have a 720p display, that's still going to be at least one Blu-Ray disc to burn and deliver. The highest quality I can record is 14mbps, ten minutes of this 14mbps in one test gave me a gigabyte large file.

I ran a bunch of tests on my Hauppauge HDPVR2 to get shots of 1080p30 done in 2, 4, 8 and 14mbps but I forgot my very own website log-in credentials and have no place to host an 8 meg jpeg comparing detail of identical frames:
2mbps = like a poorly compressed jpeg, macroblocks large and small are highly visible, detail becomes ruined, mesh-like textures become solid colours, colours drip and bleed as if waterpainted, in-game geometry text becomes unreadable, birds in the sky look like crap, highlights blow
4mbps = a lot better, aforementioned text remains unreadable, colours waterpaint and the birds in the distance continue looking like crap, highlights continue to blow
8mbps = birds are good, text is readable, mesh textures don't become solids, colours behave, highlights end up fine. I'd say it's my minimum acceptable, the minimum for not looking broken and terrible, but how much closer can you go to 4mbps without it taking on the visual problems of 4mbps?
14mbps = the sharpest highest quality I can get, of course it's a next to flawless beauty.

Ten minutes of 8mbps running the same test from earlier (WipEout HD Fury attract mode 1080p60 into 1080p30) gave me a 590 megabyte file, and I guess that makes over six hours on a 25gig BR.

Now if we scale back the resolution to 720p60 and continue frame-by-frame datarate analysing until we find the optimal minimum value, we will find that if we'll be allowed to compress and ship on BR, there won't be much to worry about.

HDCP is stripped out for $20 to $40 depending on the capture device, and there's a thread gathering information on capture devices over in tech support where I hope to see what those <$100 internal HDMI capture cards are like.

There'll be up to 56% less pixels to record if we can fool the XBoxOne/PS4 we only have a 720p display, that's still going to be at least one Blu-Ray disc to burn and deliver. The highest quality I can record is 14mbps, ten minutes of this 14mbps in one test gave me a gigabyte large file.

I ran a bunch of tests on my Hauppauge HDPVR2 to get shots of 1080p30 done in 2, 4, 8 and 14mbps but I forgot my very own website log-in credentials and have no place to host an 8 meg jpeg comparing detail of identical frames:
[b]2mbps [/b]= like a poorly compressed jpeg, macroblocks large and small are highly visible, detail becomes ruined, mesh-like textures become solid colours, colours drip and bleed as if waterpainted, in-game geometry text becomes unreadable, birds in the sky look like crap, highlights blow
[b]4mbps [/b]= a lot better, aforementioned text remains unreadable, colours waterpaint and the birds in the distance continue looking like crap, highlights continue to blow
[b]8mbps [/b]= birds are good, text is readable, mesh textures don't become solids, colours behave, highlights end up fine. I'd say it's my minimum acceptable, the minimum for not looking broken and terrible, but how much closer can you go to 4mbps without it taking on the visual problems of 4mbps?
[b]14mbps [/b]= the sharpest highest quality I can get, of course it's a next to flawless beauty.

Ten minutes of 8mbps running the same test from earlier (WipEout HD Fury attract mode 1080p60 into 1080p30) gave me a 590 megabyte file, and I guess that makes over six hours on a 25gig BR.

Now if we scale back the resolution to 720p60 and continue frame-by-frame datarate analysing until we find the optimal minimum value, we will find that if we'll be allowed to compress and ship on BR, there won't be much to worry about.

moooh

2013-06-22 11:28:33 am

Exoray

Just attach the images to your post, 8 MB should be no problem. (Need to do it with a new post. Attachments aren't available when editing old posts).

MrLonghair

Edit history:

MrLonghair: 2013-06-22 12:02:35 pm

2013-06-22 11:50:43 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Gotha. Should be attached to this one. Still image tests aren't exactly right for this but they show the weaknesses these videos carried at the lower bitrates. Ten minutes of 720p60 at 8 became 591 megs, will be able to cut bitrate down at that resolution while maintaining 60, without ruining the image quality as easily as it happens in 1080p.

edit: Hard to tell any difference from the below shot until it's at 100% - another case for maybe not requiring that high bitrate. We'll see once real games developed for HD displays show up in November and tests begin.

Attachment:

Untfymyfmfmitl725erd.jpg

General Vagueness

Edit history:

General Vagueness: 2013-06-27 10:47:44 am

General Vagueness: 2013-06-27 10:46:58 am

2013-06-27 10:45:30 am

Faster than the speed of love

Quote from Kiyura:

Quote from Hsanrb:

It depends how good and how long the local recordings can be. Until the systems come out we don't even know how much you can record whether its 30m or 30 hours.

Um, I never heard anything about being able to record to a local file,

Yeah the Xbone has this "game DVR" feature, they haven't put out a lot about it.

Quote from Kiyura:

only about sharing video directly to Youtube or something, and also streaming to (hopefully not just) Ustream. And the share function has been reported to be limited to 15 minutes or so. No source that I can dig up for either of those though.

I haven't heard anything about YouTube other than maybe a rumor. Like presjpolk said, the Xbone can stream on Twitch and the PS4 can stream on Ustream-- and I expect those will be the only streaming options for reasons of money and contracts.

MrLonghair

2013-06-27 01:10:47 pm

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

From one of their top men: Twitch aren't up for exclusive deals, it's up to Sony to approach them and get a PS4 solution going. Ought to be a matter of time with Twitch slowly becoming popular with Japanese users. They've long used Ustream so it was a given for them. The Vita has an insanely good nicovideo streaming applet that puts all of these to shame. Time will tell.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-06-27 01:26:02 pm

2013-06-27 01:25:42 pm

HELLO!

As terrible as Twitch is these days I can't imagine actually getting started streaming there now, for someone who hasn't done so already. And it's only going to get worse once the Xbox wave hits.

Patashu

2013-06-28 03:05:56 am

Quote from presjpolk:

As terrible as Twitch is these days I can't imagine actually getting started streaming there now, for someone who hasn't done so already. And it's only going to get worse once the Xbox wave hits.

Terrible quality-wise, or terrible getting an audience?

presjpolk

2013-06-28 05:01:10 am

HELLO!

These days a bit of both. You can't be seen at all on mobile unless you have a large audience.

The chat is constantly breaking, keeping you from interacting with your audience.

And then there's the bandwidth issues, where videos skip, etc.

MrLonghair

2013-06-28 05:09:20 am

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

Then there's the russian roulette with server mirrors, once in a while you get a real bullet. Questions we'd like to see answered from Twitch?
1) Will you expand?
2) Will you hire more engineers?
3) Will reliability improve, so that larger MOBA etc tournaments no longer ruin it for everybody not watching it?

If we look past the broadcasting time limits and some other things, NicoVideo's been making Twitch and uStream look quite shite recently.

Hsanrb

2013-06-28 05:10:03 am

Quote from Patashu:

Quote from presjpolk:

As terrible as Twitch is these days I can't imagine actually getting started streaming there now, for someone who hasn't done so already. And it's only going to get worse once the Xbox wave hits.

Terrible quality-wise, or terrible getting an audience?

In the past 48 hrs, the last method (that I know of) to cheat the system by using justin.tv to search for japanese twitch streams has closed and now unless a Japanese streamer cracked 40 viewers I'll never find them. Truthfully I can see people moving off twitch if they wanted to make a name, or planning on picking up a PS4 and switching to ustream early to build an audience to start with. I'm surprised PS4 went with ustream considering Sony's work with Nico app and an English focused Nico site (while not complete) enough to browse with.

I've used tried ustream a few times and while the video is embeded directly into my twitter post (so you don't go anywhere) I've not had anyone outside of friends who want to watch actually come watch. Nico might actually have been a better choice for the PS4 to be honest since I know they are trying to break into the foreign scene but I don't think they have much english content for people to come for. I might try nico some time but I don't know how the whole "30m go to the next part" works and my lack of Japanese might make it hard to communicate (like I always try)

PS: 3 posts posted while I typed this

[quote="Patashu"][quote="presjpolk"]As terrible as Twitch is these days I can't imagine actually getting started streaming there now, for someone who hasn't done so already.  And it's only going to get worse once the Xbox wave hits.[/quote]

Terrible quality-wise, or terrible getting an audience?[/quote]

In the past 48 hrs, the last method (that I know of) to cheat the system by using justin.tv to search for japanese twitch streams has closed and now unless a Japanese streamer cracked 40 viewers I'll never find them. Truthfully I can see people moving off twitch if they wanted to make a name, or planning on picking up a PS4 and switching to ustream early to build an audience to start with. I'm surprised PS4 went with ustream considering Sony's work with Nico app and an English focused Nico site (while not complete) enough to browse with.

I've used tried ustream a few times and while the video is embeded directly into my twitter post (so you don't go anywhere) I've not had anyone outside of friends who want to watch actually come watch. Nico might actually have been a better choice for the PS4 to be honest since I know they are trying to break into the foreign scene but I don't think they have much english content for people to come for. I might try nico some time but I don't know how the whole "30m go to the next part" works and my lack of Japanese might make it hard to communicate (like I always try)

PS: 3 posts posted while I typed this

presjpolk

2013-06-28 07:11:49 am

HELLO!

And I have to say I had a ton of fun streaming on Nico when Twitch's chat went down yesterday.

We barely shared a common language, my chat and I. But I was playing the Japanese Final Fantasy V and we ahread a common bond of frustration with my Dancer not using the right attacks. Smiley

MrLonghair

2013-06-28 02:56:04 pm

Audio-guy. twitchtv:ohgoddamnit

I'll.. stream wherever with my HDCP-scrubbing capture equipment and digital-analogue audio converter Cheesy

That's what I want to help people realize, and help them set up for these upcoming consoles. As for local recording, 500 gig drives aren't expensive and BR burners can be had for the cost of a new modern console game (going by Swedish prices). There'll be no problems for anybody but the insane people who insist that their old CRT from 90s still works fine..