Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness

2016-08-16 03:51:03 pm

Run Information

Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (pc) (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment] [Character: Fighter]
Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (pc) (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment] [Character: Paladin]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/QuestForGlory4-20160813/
http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/QuestForGlory4-20160812/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2016-08-30 02:33:53 pm

2016-08-17 08:39:04 am

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/QuestForGlory4.html

Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (pc) (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment] [Character: Wizard]

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to Paul 'The Reverend' Miller!

2016-08-17 08:39:04 am

Run Information

Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (pc) (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment] [Character: Wizard]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/QuestForGlory4-20160815/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

LotBlind

2016-08-17 09:11:20 am

Will do these! 100%! If you see what I done did there...

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2016-08-17 10:47:14 am

2016-08-17 10:46:42 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Hope I can count on you then for the 100% of the other class coming down the pike, too. Cheesy

2016-08-19 09:21:39 pm

Might be magic...

Routes seem solid. As mentioned in the run notes, there are some bugs in this game which dictate some aspects of the routes.

There are a fair few "clicky" type errors in the runs, but I've found it almost impossible to avoid them, due to the way that the cursor often disappears while things are happening on screen and the weird way the controls work sometimes. This game was not designed for precise control Smiley

The RNG for the fighter run was pretty spectacular. If you've ever played the game you'll know how difficult it is to bump into all the different types of monsters within a certain timeframe. In this run it was lucky to see all of them during the normal wandering to each objective.

There's some kind of weird audio glitch around 34:45 in the Paladin run where the game keeps playing the levitate sound. I've never run into that one before but it doesn't seem to affect anything else.

Accept both.

ktwo

2016-08-20 03:56:06 am

Just wanted to highlight there that there are three runs in this thread (Fighter, Paladin and Wizard). There is "Thief" run coming on Tuesday, but it will be in a separate thread in order not to confuse further.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2016-08-22 10:19:16 am

2016-08-22 10:18:25 am

Quote:

Paladin

how were you able to do the ident-an-animal questions so fast this time?

Just so you know, I think the Paladin notes are missing a few actions after waking up on day 3, before visiting Cranium. Also, the word is "rusalka".

Why skip the win screens so fast?

A/V: looks like the bottom row of pixels is green.

accept

Quote:

Fighter

Same minor A/V thing.

Notes have this non-sensical construct: "I also catch, in this time, my Fighter begins to move backwards so I reset the preferences to stop that." You mean setting magic and defensiveness on max was a mistake?

"Heading north to the Wraith cancels the Chernovy fight." I assume you can't do things like talk to NPCs if a monster is on your tail?

I feel this run has overall more mistakes than the paladin one but I reckon that's partially because more RNG in finding required encounters. And maybe there was less warm-up or something.

Question: Why do you always try to stay near max stamina in the "gym" as you're treading the "elliptical"? Does that make it more efficient? Did you really have to finish on full stamina when all you did (talking of day 4 now) was return to the inn afterwards?

When you're "grinding" for a wyvern fight, you don't seem to have a specific strategy in mind. At first you move from screen to screen haphazardly for a bit before settling on going back and forth between two. If that's the best way to do it, you should make note of that.

You could also take each action you've failed once (clicked on the wrong spot) and take some time during practice attempts to figure out how big the hitbox for it is. Then grind hitting it several times. This would probably give you some subconscious routine for them when you know what parts of the screen are special that would probably help never miss the bigger ones and miss the small ones less. Looked like some very pixel-dependent clicks in places though. Sounds like gammadragon has more experience with these games in particular though...

But yes, with the huge amount of extra RNG fighter runs have to suffer, this is still fairly clean

accept

Quote:

Wizard

I think noticeably better execution here. I guess the next step would be to memorize where in the inventory you'll find each item or spell, or at least some more problematic ones. Prepositioning of course is much tougher for a game like this which hides your cursor all the time.

Can you go all the way to the next screen with the bug after drinking from the well?

In each of these runs, there's a point when you've just solved a Leshky riddle and he gives you another straight away, but you just leave the screen. Is it worth no points to answer that one?

accept

[quote][b]Paladin[/b][/quote]

how were you able to do the ident-an-animal questions so fast this time?

Just so you know, I think the Paladin notes are missing a few actions after waking up on day 3, before visiting Cranium. Also, the word is "rusalka".

Why skip the win screens so fast?

A/V: looks like the bottom row of pixels is green.

[b]accept[/b]

[quote][b]Fighter[/b][/quote]

Same minor A/V thing.

Notes have this non-sensical construct: "I also catch, in this time, my Fighter begins to move backwards so I reset the preferences to stop that." You mean setting magic and defensiveness on max was a mistake?

"Heading north to the Wraith cancels the Chernovy fight." I assume you can't do things like talk to NPCs if a monster is on your tail?

I feel this run has overall more mistakes than the paladin one but I reckon that's partially because more RNG in finding required encounters. And maybe there was less warm-up or something.

Question: Why do you always try to stay near max stamina in the "gym" as you're treading the "elliptical"? Does that make it more efficient? Did you really have to finish on full stamina when all you did (talking of day 4 now) was return to the inn afterwards?

When you're "grinding" for a wyvern fight, you don't seem to have a specific strategy in mind. At first you move from screen to screen haphazardly for a bit before settling on going back and forth between two. If that's the best way to do it, you should make note of that.

You could also take each action you've failed once (clicked on the wrong spot) and take some time during practice attempts to figure out how big the hitbox for it is. Then grind hitting it several times. This would probably give you some subconscious routine for them when you know what parts of the screen are special that would probably help never miss the bigger ones and miss the small ones less. Looked like some very pixel-dependent clicks in places though. Sounds like gammadragon has more experience with these games in particular though...

But yes, with the huge amount of extra RNG fighter runs have to suffer, this is still fairly clean

[b]accept[/b]

[quote][b]Wizard[/b][/quote]

I think noticeably better execution here. I guess the next step would be to memorize where in the inventory you'll find each item or spell, or at least some more problematic ones. Prepositioning of course is much tougher for a game like this which hides your cursor all the time.

Can you go all the way to the next screen with the bug after drinking from the well?

In each of these runs, there's a point when you've just solved a Leshky riddle and he gives you another straight away, but you just leave the screen. Is it worth no points to answer that one?

[b]accept[/b]

2016-08-24 02:26:06 am

Might be magic...

Ah, thanks ktwo, didn't notice there was also a Wizard run here! I'll verify that one over the weekend.

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:07:21 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:06:34 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:05:46 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:05:33 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:04:41 am

2016-08-24 05:46:02 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

LotBlind Paladin

1. The Paladin questions in Dr. Cranium are identical to the Fighter in the first round. The second question is identical to all character classes.
2. I've looked at for so many years, and I cannot believe I missed that typo for so long.
3. I kind of miss QFG2 and QFG1, where the win screen progresses automatically.

Quote:

LotBlind Fighter

1. Yikes! That sentence is a mess. I need to go back to that and rewrite the notes; it might have something to do with Word Wrap on Notepad. Sometimes words are skipped in the wrapping in the editing process with that on.
2. That is correct. If there is a monster, NPCs do not appear in the forest. Moving to particular screens (Wraith screens, Erana's garden, the Magic Bush, town gates, etc.) cancel RNG encounters. Knowing where the closest ones are is important.
3. I actually think it's not a product of less warm-up, but too many attempts. I did not expect to get the RNG I did. I actually expected, at a few points, to restart.
4. To answer your question, if your Stamina drops to the bottom, you get off the training equipment, which requires extra clicking (albeit not much). But your Stamina on the machine drops in faster chunks the longer you work on the machine. Also, this is a good way to burn time during the day.
5. That Wyvern is a pain. I feel like there was a reason at the time, but I can't look at it now to verify. I'll edit this comment later.
6. Agreed; the item screen has been, at times, the sloppiest parts of my runs. It's mainly because there's SO many possibilities to remember. If I'm doing a Any% run, certain items are in different spots because I don't have other items which take up space on the screen, and in 100% it's different... and then it's different between the four classes, and if it's a marathon run of QFG1-5, the items are in yet ANOTHER place. I'm always working on the Marathon run. Cheesy

Quote:

LotBlind Wizard

1. The reason this one looks cleaner is because every specific point for the Wizard is necessary to even make it through the Any%. There's no extra beyond what are common points for all character classes.
2. No. If you leave the screen, it cancels the animation and the dialog. I tried that, too. Cheesy

3. You have to complete or talk or do certain things for the right answer to the riddle to appear on your list of options. For example, even though the answer to his riddle is obviously Baba Yaga, without having met Baba Yaga, "Baba Yaga" doesn't appear as an option. And if you can't get past the Baba Yaga riddle, you can't get the Elderberry Bush riddle which you would know the answer to, and can't get the final Wraith question either. I time my riddles to when I'll be "in the area/right time of day" to avoid backtracking. Leshy doesn't appear at night.

[quote]LotBlind Paladin[/quote]
1. The Paladin questions in Dr. Cranium are identical to the Fighter in the first round.  The second question is identical to all character classes.
2. I've looked at for so many years, and I cannot believe I missed that typo for so long.
3. I kind of miss QFG2 and QFG1, where the win screen progresses automatically.
[quote]LotBlind Fighter[/quote]
1. Yikes!  That sentence is a mess.  I need to go back to that and rewrite the notes; it might have something to do with Word Wrap on Notepad.  Sometimes words are skipped in the wrapping in the editing process with that on.
2. That is correct.  If there is a monster, NPCs do not appear in the forest.  Moving to particular screens (Wraith screens, Erana's garden, the Magic Bush, town gates, etc.) cancel RNG encounters.  Knowing where the closest ones are is important.
3. I actually think it's not a product of less warm-up, but too many attempts.  I did not expect to get the RNG I did.  I actually expected, at a few points, to restart.
4. To answer your question, if your Stamina drops to the bottom, you get off the training equipment, which requires extra clicking (albeit not much).  But your Stamina on the machine drops in faster chunks the longer you work on the machine.  Also, this is a good way to burn time during the day.
5. That Wyvern is a pain.  I feel like there was a reason at the time, but I can't look at it now to verify.  I'll edit this comment later.
6. Agreed; the item screen has been, at times, the sloppiest parts of my runs.  It's mainly because there's SO many possibilities to remember.  If I'm doing a Any% run, certain items are in different spots because I don't have other items which take up space on the screen, and in 100% it's different... and then it's different between the four classes, and if it's a marathon run of QFG1-5, the items are in yet ANOTHER place.  I'm always working on the Marathon run. :D
[quote]LotBlind Wizard[/quote]
1. The reason this one looks cleaner is because every specific point for the Wizard is necessary to even make it through the Any%.  There's no extra beyond what are common points for all character classes.
2. No.  If you leave the screen, it cancels the animation and the dialog.  I tried that, too.  :D
3. You have to complete or talk or do certain things for the right answer to the riddle to appear on your list of options.  For example, even though the answer to his riddle is obviously Baba Yaga, without having met Baba Yaga, "Baba Yaga" doesn't appear as an option.  And if you can't get past the Baba Yaga riddle, you can't get the Elderberry Bush riddle which you would know the answer to, and can't get the final Wraith question either.  I time my riddles to when I'll be "in the area/right time of day" to avoid backtracking.  Leshy doesn't appear at night.

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:04:19 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 11:01:02 am

mrprmiller: 2016-08-24 10:59:09 am

2016-08-24 10:55:41 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

5. That Wyvern is a pain. I feel like there was a reason at the time, but I can't look at it now to verify. I'll edit this comment later.

Whew! That Wyvern fight was glorious RNG!... even the battle itself was smooth. Yes, there was a reason I moved the way that I did and where I did, but it is a little complicated and kind of obscure. I'll do my best to explain it.

Firstly, all of the screens are at most one screen away from where I need to meet Ad Avis at night.

The screen JUST below the Castle entrance is a little interesting for encounter-RNG. If you enter from the right, monsters come directly from the path of the Castle. If a Wyvern encounter happened there (which would have been amazing/optimal) I would have run directly into them and everything would have been fine. (I ran into a Vorpal Bunny earlier in the run in this exact way.) I then ran south, and back north to the same screen. If an RNG encounter happened here, the monster would have entered from the right. If there would have been a Wyvern, GREAT, but if it was another monster, my only chance for escape would have been to the Castle, and at the Castle, there is a short delay and then a discussion cutscene from talking to the gate keeper/lightning sounds. I knew I was close to the arbitrary number of screens transitions that give an RNG encounter. It was worth, in my estimation, one try, but continuing there holds a level of danger I'll try and explain, and also, I was soOoOo close...

If I still needed the Vorpal Bunny AND the Wyvern, it would have been fine to move and back forth here even with the risk of running into the Necrotaur because they are more rare and I have an easier time juking them than either the Bunny or the Wyvern. But I did not need the Vorpal Bunny anymore, and if the monster ISN'T a Wyvern coming from the north path, I'll need to kill the monster encounter quickly. The fastest way is to reach the Town Gate, which is a few screens away, and carries no lag or dialog with it. If I needed to use the Castle to cancel the wrong encounters, this very easily could have added up quickly.

I then ran to the right which is the ideal screen for grinding, and then south. The simple reason for direction is that the south route was closer and could get another opportunity in faster; if a encounter happened it would have come from the south, and it was not a Wyvern, I could have just continued going on the route I had planned and cancelled the encounter in the fastest way. But I then transition back up and to the right to attempt to grind out between the screen directly below the Town Gate and the screen where I finally encounter the Wyvern. The reason is that during the day, the only monster that flies is the Wyvern, and that little pool of water is perfect to get the Vorpal Bunnies/Necrotaurs to give me an extra second to run away to the Town Gate, while Wyverns will go right across and engage just as fast. Entering from the right side of the screen just below the Town Gate almost always makes RNG encounters spawn from the south route, leaving me open to running north to kill and encounter if needed.

In my head I can replay the entire series of thoughts that led me to take THAT EXACT route. That it took that long to get ANY RNG-encounter is flat out amazing.

[quote]5. That Wyvern is a pain.  I feel like there was a reason at the time, but I can't look at it now to verify.  I'll edit this comment later.[/quote]
Whew!  That Wyvern fight was glorious RNG!... even the battle itself was smooth.  Yes, there was a reason I moved the way that I did and where I did, but it is a little complicated and kind of obscure.  I'll do my best to explain it.

Firstly, all of the screens are at most one screen away from where I need to meet Ad Avis at night.

The screen JUST below the Castle entrance is a little interesting for encounter-RNG.  If you enter from the right, monsters come directly from the path of the Castle.  If a Wyvern encounter happened there (which would have been amazing/optimal) I would have run directly into them and everything would have been fine.  (I ran into a Vorpal Bunny earlier in the run in this exact way.)  I then ran south, and back north to the same screen.  If an RNG encounter happened here, the monster would have entered from the right.  If there would have been a Wyvern, GREAT, but if it was another monster, my only chance for escape would have been to the Castle, and at the Castle, there is a short delay and then a discussion cutscene from talking to the gate keeper/lightning sounds.  I knew I was close to the arbitrary number of screens transitions that give an RNG encounter.  It was worth, in my estimation, one try, but continuing there holds a level of danger I'll try and explain, and also, I was soOoOo close...

If I still needed the Vorpal Bunny AND the Wyvern, it would have been fine to move and back forth here even with the risk of running into the Necrotaur because they are more rare and I have an easier time juking them than either the Bunny or the Wyvern.  But I did not need the Vorpal Bunny anymore, and if the monster ISN'T a Wyvern coming from the north path, I'll need to kill the monster encounter quickly.  The fastest way is to reach the Town Gate, which is a few screens away, and carries no lag or dialog with it.  If I needed to use the Castle to cancel the wrong encounters, this very easily could have added up quickly.

I then ran to the right which is the ideal screen for grinding, and then south.  The simple reason for direction is that the south route was closer and could get another opportunity in faster; if a encounter happened it would have come from the south, and it was not a Wyvern, I could have just continued going on the route I had planned and cancelled the encounter in the fastest way.  But I then transition back up and to the right to attempt to grind out between the screen directly below the Town Gate and the screen where I finally encounter the Wyvern.  The reason is that during the day, the only monster that flies is the Wyvern, and that little pool of water is perfect to get the Vorpal Bunnies/Necrotaurs to give me an extra second to run away to the Town Gate, while Wyverns will go right across and engage just as fast.  Entering from the right side of the screen just below the Town Gate almost always makes RNG encounters spawn from the south route, leaving me open to running north to kill and encounter if needed.

In my head I can replay the entire series of thoughts that led me to take THAT EXACT route.  That it took that long to get ANY RNG-encounter is flat out amazing.

2016-08-24 11:17:53 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

A/V: looks like the bottom row of pixels is green.

I'm not seeing this on my original, nor on the verification files. I checked IQ and HQ. :/ Can you do a screenshot so I can see?

LotBlind

2016-08-25 12:25:02 pm

BTW: the A/V was found out to be on my end. Ignore. Sorry for hassle!

"Rusalka" what you should have said is "As a speedrunner, I have no time to check my grammar or spelling".

"Too many attempts" - yup, gotta know your limits.

4. I see. You're not losing time because you would have had to perform "wait" actions anyway.

5. Wyvern: Has anyone told you you know TOO much about these games? Cheesy

Amazing stuff.

I'll get right on the Thief after watching someone's 4-hour RPG run.

2016-08-26 07:57:59 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

5. Wyvern: Has anyone told you you know TOO much about these games? Cheesy Amazing stuff.

Apparently not enough to ignore grammar and spelling. Grin

I can't believe I've been spelling Rusalka incorrect for so long. LOL

2016-08-26 10:08:58 pm

Might be magic...

Wizard run

Generally good execution here, with less clicky-type errors. There were some slight mistakes that cost a few seconds, like attempting to pick non-existent flowers from the tree (mentioned in the runners notes) and trying to force the bone cage instead of using the Force Bolt spell. There is some good ad-libbing with the timing of the Rusalka due to the random Necrotaur encounter, which minimizes the time cost.

The route seems good. I didn't do a huge amount of research on previous speedruns, but the fastest alternative Wizard 100% speedrun that I could find was about a minute slower, so all in all a pretty great run.

Accept.

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2016-08-27 07:36:25 am

2016-08-27 07:34:29 am

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

but the fastest alternative Wizard 100% speedrun that I could find was about a minute slower

I think you might be thinking about Puri's run, but that one is a minute slower and is an Any% run, actually. Cheesy

2016-08-29 04:25:37 am

Might be magic...

Ah yes, you're quite right. I was getting the 100% and any% runs confused. That makes your run even more impressive!