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Edit history:
wesen: 2016-12-26 03:17:58 am
wesen: 2016-12-22 03:42:12 pm
wesen: 2016-10-01 07:12:14 am
wesen: 2016-10-01 07:11:58 am
wesen: 2016-10-01 07:11:46 am
LotBlind: 2016-09-30 10:55:06 am
Hi,

I would like to discuss the rules for Individual Level runs (any%) for the game Pink Panther: Pinkadelic Pursuit.


My suggested rules are the following:

1. All levels must be completed, this means:

* The level record screen must be reached in every level (except for Level 12).
  This means, you have to reach the end of skate levels, bring the key to the EXIT door in pursuit levels and defeat bosses.

* Bosses must be defeated.
  Since the last boss has no level record screen, this rule is added only for this level. It also makes sure that the dinosaur skip must not be used.

2. Timing

* The ingame timer can be used for all levels
* You have to display the ingame timer manually during the last boss fight.

3. State

* Use the cheat menu and activate only "ALL KEYS". This way you can play every level in the base state (4 hearts, 0 coins).
* Start a new game and select the level you want to speedrun. This must be redone for every level.
* You are not allowed to touch information signs in the level before doing your run.

4. Pausing the game during the run is not allowed

* Pausing reduces the respawn time of bombs (for example in Level 5 "The Greenhouse")
* The pause menu gets the option "WIN" from activating the cheat menu, using that option will instantly end the level. Your record will be the elapsed time.


Let me know your opinion about the rules.
Thread title:  
Changed thread title.

I'd like to suggest just going for in-game time (IGT) for simplicity: it's not like being inefficient with what you do during the cutscenes where you can move won't directly reflect on your end time anyway. There probably isn't any weird strategy where you somehow exploit the cutscenes to make the IGT be way less than RT would have been? Last boss often has to be real-time timed though.

(There may not be other replies here, but that often happens: just keep updating this thread with new runs/major Guide updates/whatever to document the progress a bit)
Ok, the moving during the cutscene changes the end result by only about 3 seconds, so it's not much difference.

I already have 10 of 12 runs, will do the other two tommorow.
I think the rules sound very reasonable. I have only one comment. I wonder if you could clarify the role of keys in this game. Do you always have to collect the key to exit a level? Even if you have beaten the level before? Even with the "ALL KEYS" cheat activated? (or is the sole purpose of the "ALL KEYS" cheat to unlock all levels?)
Yes, you always have to collect the key in order to finish a level (except for Level 12).

The levels are exactly the same when you replay them, the sole difference is that the information signs you read before will not force you to read their text when you stand in front of them.
Every item will be at its place, all obstacles will be there again as well as all the coins, enemies and stalkers.

The "ALL KEYS" cheat only sets the number of total keys to 12 every time you enter the level select. Thereby it unlocks all levels and opens blocked paths in the level select (basement door, furnace, greenhouse door, window next to dinosaur level).

The keys are only used to unlock levels and to open up doors in the level select, every level requires a specific amount of keys to play it.
When you finish a level for the first time, you will see an animation of Pink Panther holding the key in his hand and then collecting it. After that one key will be added to your total amount of keys.
When you replay a level, there will be no animation of Pink Panther collecting the key and you won't get one key added to your amount of keys.
Right, then I misunderstood the "ALL KEYS" cheat when I first read about it. If you could skip collecting the key in the levels, that would have corresponded to a possibility of defining a "new game+" category, but since that's not case, nevermind what I said. :-)
I found a way to use the ingame time for the final boss too.

You can show and hide the ingame timer by pressing LSHIFT. If you display the timer with LSHIFT it will only disappear when you manually hide it.
The timer stops after the boss is defeated and before the cutscene plays, so there is a usable record time.


Another suggestion of me is that the PS1 and PC version speedruns should be different categories, because of the differences in jump height, possible glitches and skips.


Activating the cheat menu also adds the option "WIN" to the pause menu, which lets you finish the level at any time. It should be obvious that you are not allowed to use it in ILs, but I will add it to the rules anyways.



I have a question about the any% Single Segment run too. Before I start runs I go to either Level 9 or Level 12 and let the cutscene play once. After that the cutscene is not played for the rest of the session. This saves about 11 seconds and I wondered if this would be considered a different category.
Console and PC runs are separated simply by virtue of different control mechanics, so that's a given. If there aren't a lot of other differences, we may cross-check with other platform runs just to see if the parts that are comparable look equally good in a new submission.

Timing: sounds like a plan! I presume you mean in IL runs. Or does it show the time for the entire playthrough?

Yeah, cheat menus are considered cheating Cheesy

The cutscene trick isn't enough to make a new category: I wonder if it's worth including at all. It sounds like it makes the whole thing NG+ but that means there's no NG at all, which is weird. I almost feel like if there's no other "preparations" you can do, it'll just make the run more complicated for hardly any reason.
Contrary to what I said earlier, you CAN do the cutscene trick and when you restart, it'll still count as a New Game run. It will make timing easier when we don't have to take into account the "extra" cutscenes if they were left in, and also you don't have to exit and start the game so much. BTW it might have been unclear earlier, but the game will be real-time timed (RTA) when played in SS mode. This is because the IGT only times the levels, but there's also gameplay in-between, in the overworld. ILs will be IGT of course.
Quote:
Or does it show the time for the entire playthrough


The timer autohides after a short time. You can unhide it as soon as the timer starts hiding, you can also hide it manually earlier.
The timer will then stay on screen as long as you stay in the level, even when you die.

This can be done in any level. You can see the timer stopping before the "New Record" screen appears in every level.




I had the idea to do a segmented run of this game and need a tip for how to solve this problem:

When you enter a level the game saves the position you entered it at. When you come back to the level select after finishing the level you will spawn at that exact position with the key animation.


My idea for a setup was:

1. Make an own segment for every level select part.
2. Make a segment for each level.
3. Save the game after each level.

Then to redo the level select parts I wanted to reload the old save state and replay the levels. Then I'd get the same amount of coins and the key animation in the main menu.
In order to play the next level I'd just load the newest save state, this way I would get all best times in one save file.

The problem with that is only the position when selecting a level.
Virtually no games on SDA have both ILs and segmented runs... if there's [significant] carry-over between levels, then it's segmented, if there isn't, ILs. In this case ILs make more sense, also seeing as the overworld gameplay isn't that interesting, except that one skip.

This of it this way: when there's a default starting state for the IL, doing it inside a segmented run and doing it as an IL is the exact same thing. So a segmented run completely covers the ILs table (well except for that one boss fight I guess).
Edit history:
wesen: 2017-03-02 09:49:14 am
wesen: 2017-03-02 09:48:50 am
Hey,

I had the idea to create another category for this game: Any% Glitchless
Any% is about 14 minutes while Any% Glitchless is about 20 minutes.


I would like to discuss the rules for such a run. Here is a list of glitches that should not be allowed in Any% Glitchless:

* Glitching through any obstacle
* Hidden Windows and Doors (Level 4 and Level 11)
* The Dinosaur Skip


Tricks of which I am not sure whether they are glitches or not:

* Skipping the dinosaur cutscene by triggering the boss cutscene of Boss 2 or 3 once
  I would say its unintended, the developers probably wanted you to watch both cutscenes and didn't expect anyone to finish the game in one go

* Pausing the game in Level 5 to pause the plant scream animation while waiting for the bomb to respawn during the pause
  Probably unintended too, they probably just forgot to pause the bomb respawn timer too when pressing pause

* Damage Boosts to reach platforms that you are not supposed to reach (Level 3 demolition ball, Level 8 ghost, Level 12 Boss and enemies)
  This should not be allowed just because of the ghost trick in Level 8 which lets you skip two tasks

* Jumping from below windows or doors and triggering them while in air
  Since that is an unintended trick too I would say it shouldn't be allowed


Please tell me your opinion about whether these tricks are glitches or not, even if the category is not accepted on SDA.
glitchless is not actually a category on SDA: instead the any% will be called "with major skips" if it wasn't already. In any case, hidden windows and doors sound like it's difficult to call them "glitches" because it seems they're intended to be there.

In fact reading the rest of your ideas, those are really not what we mean by major skips: usually major skips are stuff like OOB (so glitching through obstacles could count) or wrong warping or... some obvious big big trick that is used a lot through the whole run. Take the difference between Portal any% (SDA: "with major skips") and inbounds. Or Commander Keen 4-6 which has a trick that lets you skip entire levels and you can do it in a lot of levels. You can't start listing these little things and trying to figure out what's intended what isn't - you can't really know. You just look at how much they affect the run. As ktwo said earlier, you're clutching at straws.
Edit history:
LotBlind: 2017-03-05 07:02:48 am
I think the best advice here might be this: do whatever you feel makes the run the most interesting - it's just not very likely someone will come compete in times with you anyway, but maybe you've got some kind of audience for it on YouTube nonetheless.

Some thoughts:

Dinosaur Skip: this is a pretty clear-cut glitch/bug.
Hidden Windows: because it's no different from entering a window normally, I can't easily compartmentalize the windows and doors like this in my mind, so maybe this shouldn't be a thing?
Skipping cutscene: it makes no practical difference for the run even if you let it play - it just makes it more boring, so why do that?
Pausing the game: too small to include in a definiton
Damage boosts: too basic for any game IMO
Jumping from below windows etc.: too basic - you're just performing a high jump essentially.

So because the difference is so small, I just can't see this run for SDA or anything. Personally, the game I'm running I'm planning on making some "outtakes" videos with one of them maybe showing off an alternative route or something like that. The value of such videos lies in if what you're demonstrating is interesting. I think if you just take a slightly different route through the game, I personally wouldn't find that interesting. In my game I'll be able to show all kinds of neat useless glitches and bugs in the game code.

(hoping to see a different game from you though!)

EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/2xwwom/discussion_i_feel_as_though_glitchless_categories/
I thought about the categories and came to the conclusion that Any% is the only category that makes sense.

100% is essentially the same like Any%, the differences are that you defeat the dinosaur boss (which is already covered by the IL), collect the coins that are on the Any% route, play Level 10 over and over again to get the required amount of coins and buy the portraits.

Glitchless is nearly impossible to define because you can't know which tricks are intended and which are not, therefore it doesn't make much sense either.


However I am not done with this game yet, I am back to Any% and Any% ILs. I am currently looking for new tricks, with the new knowledge that I gathered since the last run (15:01) it is possible to finish a run in about 14:15 seconds (Single Segment). Hopefully I can find enough tricks to get a sub 14.