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Hi
I too think the Request Thread is pointless; every game ever created (even the shittiest) has at least one person somewhere interested in a speedrun of it.
two rows of links on main page pretty nifty
Quote:
I too think the Request Thread is pointless; every game ever created (even the shittiest) has at least one person somewhere interested in a speedrun of it.

Especially the shittiest, moreso than many unknown mediocre games.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Truly, the request thread welcomes all comers!
Edit history:
DRybes: 2008-03-31 07:08:38 am
O Zlda?
This is one of the most professional and productive threads I have seen in a while. I can't think of any useful changes to the current text of the FAQ and Rules at the moment, but I will post if I think of any. Having read them through a month or two ago in their old form, I really like the new wordings and how you've condensed text without removing information, making the rules a great deal clearer and cleaner. Following through with an update to the front page (a thread about this exists already) would complete this process of updating the half dozen most important pages on the site.

But I'm probably most excited that I won't have to use the phrase (Save Warping) on any runs I complete...

---

May I suggest either this thread is stickied, some of the older stickies in this forum are unstuck, or both?
eh, traffic in this forum is pretty low. i'm wondering if anyone can think of a better more permanent place to put the links to zwei and the 2007 pax showcase vids. having them just as stickies in here is so lame but i'm not going to unsticky them until we think of a better place for them - preferably somewhere on the main site.
(user is banned)
Edit history:
MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 10:03:58 pm
MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 07:33:49 am
I AM FUCKED ANGRY
Quote:
Mortyre: I don't know what you mean. Are you saying that modchips for playing imports shouldn't be allowed? Because the rules say that they are allowed. And if you don't think they work very well, it doesn't mean anyone is required to use them.


Sorry my Bad English (I hate my own English , so Sorry)

----

Rules : #08 - "System modification"

"The only extra hardware that is allowed are modchips and boot disks used for playing imports, and official add-ons. "

---

I mean, you can use a Mod-Chip to play Import Games, but it works only for the Consolen JAP_NTSC to USA_NTSC.
NTSC = 29,97 fps
(I have not a NTSC PS2 System, I can you not say for the functions
of a NTSC PS2 System)

For the European Users to play NTSC on a PAL Console will make very trouble.
PAL = 25 fps

To use a Boot Disc for NTSC Select to PAL will function, but the Screen
is not adjusted and the gameplay is slow. Also is the Big Problem to
Capture or Record this gameplay.
To use a VGA Scart will makes really Problems to Record the Video.

Also the Gameplay is slower, the PAL Versions of Games play faster on a Original PAL System. (it will lost some Frames on a NTSC PS2 System)

----

I have a PAL PS2 Slim with Mod-Chip.
Test Pics (Handy)

Played The Suffering PAL Version on my PS2 PAL System



Played The Suffering NTSC Version on my PS2 PAL System without use
a PAL-NTSC Selector.
Resulting = Screen is Black and White


Played The Suffering NTSC Version on my PS2 PAL System use
a PAL and NTSC Selector.
Resulting = Screen Adjust Problem !


Edit history:
Enhasa: 2008-03-31 09:57:26 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Mortyre: Ok, they are allowed, but if they cause lots of problems then the runner would choose not to use them. In any case, imports or not, the video quality needs to be good, so there is no need to prohibit modchips explicitly.

I don't think I am going to mention modding problems in the FAQ because we are about speedrunning and modding is a separate issue that we will let gamers deal with themselves. I assume most PAL users already know that NTSC -> PAL is problematic.



DRybes: This thread doesn't need a sticky since after everyone is cool and we get translators, this thread isn't needed anymore. Of course I could unsticky then but whatever, it's fine. Being linked in the news is enough.

There's no need to unsticky anything but "lossless codecs" and "ps3 folding@home" are bigger culprits anyway.

Maybe for zwei and pax there could be like a promos or extras page or something on the main site. It could also include other "SDA takes over the world" links like to EGM and Edge mag or whatever. All of us are too lazy now to actually do anything though. I already feel like I ought to ask permission to change even the slightest thing that isn't the news page.

The best part of the previous docs was the awesome Radixese (Mike insists it is not awesome and in fact he uses negative adjectives, but I think it's endearing). I mean, I guess it's bad that every single new runner is scared shitless when first talking to Radix (yes, even uncouth kids like me or stanski or tiki). Here are some samples for good old times reminiscing, although I wish I still had copies of the docs from long ago when it was even more this way:

Quote:
to avoid ruining the quality of your run by doing something stupid.

You can copy tape(s) before sending out of paranoia, but DO NOT send us copies

Do not contact me on these services and just say "hi" or similar - I will ignore you unless you actually tell me what you want. When you send the first message to me, pretend you're writing an email. Would you send someone an email saying "I did a speed run!" and then wait for a response to tell what game and time? NO! Tell me EVERY piece of information in the FIRST message. If I don't respond, then you didn't follow these directions.

such as what games to run, if I care about a run (chances are, I don't), things which would be allowed etc.

What gives you the right to decide what the rules are?
Someone has to decide what's what and then enforce those decisions. Otherwise there's no point in doing any of this. It's a dirty job, but since we're physically, mentally and emotionally superior to you, we have taken on the task of dictating what you are and are not allowed to do.

Aren't there already a few sites that try to keep track of these sort of things?
Yes, but they don't have our style, wisdom, lovability and panache.

I've done a run on a game you don't have in your list. Will you add it?
Maybe. First, you should've discussed the game on the forum to see if anyone is interested. Runs on lousy or unknown games won't get much interest. After that, follow the directions on the submit page, giving details of your run and why you think it should be added to the archive. Please DO NOT send us your demo until we ask for it.

If your run is considered 'awful' it probably won't be posted. Please don't just do a crap run through a game not listed and think it'll be posted, try your best!

Unfortunately, some games are lazily programmed and you can't skip cutscenes. In this case the runner goes insane as they count for his or her time.

Finally: Please don't try and outsmart us. If you are in any doubt as to whether what you're doing is fair, then discuss it. Don't spend weeks recording a demo using some dubious means and then tell us "You have to accept this because you don't specifically say it's not legal!" because we'll just say "No, we don't. Goodbye!"

The runs are great but they skip the cutscenes! I wanted to see the game's plot!
Too bad.
Just wanted to say that I can help with the French translation if needed. Smiley
(user is banned)
Edit history:
MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 10:04:02 pm
MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 07:34:02 am
I AM FUCKED ANGRY
Quote:
Just wanted to say that I can help with the French translation if needed. Smiley


Please Post it in this Topic =
http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=sda_site;action=display;num=1204922500
Quote:
... links to zwei and the 2007 pax showcase vids.

Which brings me to my idea (you guys probably considered it at one point) about making a simple video or slide of pictures of "Do and Don't do" from the Rules, FAQ, & Submission pages (maybe one for each?).

I know how much of a professional-styled-record-holding upgrade the R,FAQ,&S pages got.  I'm very impressed, and have no doubts about future site upgrades being as well thought out and 'Official' looking (that is what you want right?) as this one.

With such 'professional' & 'official' expectations now though, I can understand why you would not want a video or pictures of such important pages: compared to text it would be much harder to make such a visualization for the majority that would be easily understandable, pleasing -not ugly, high quality, and maybe a little entertaining- yet still measure up to the text wording.

The more I write the more I think of pros&cons for having a "visual show" along with these upgraded pages. 
First, think of a Flash player (not Youtube but the ones SDA uses for runs now) at the bottom of the Rules page showing video and pictures (NO talking/commentary, maybe music) demonstrating the key points of the text above.
[u]PROs[/u]
  • Breaking the 'language-barrier' with pictures gamers understand

Dang it..  now that I look at the Rules page and think of how a video could even convey all the issues listed, I only think of 'Cons'.  I'll list them, and maybe edit this post if I think of something hopeful to add (I hope people find more pro or cons).
[u]CONs[/u][list]
  • Newcomers may skim down the page, reading words that interest them, then find a video, watch it and not read anything else (even if the video told them to read everything before making a run), make a speedrun and want to submit it but didn't follow a rule that wasn't mentioned in the video. 
    Although a rule could be broken or forgotten even if it was mentioned in the video, which makes that part 'Neutral'.  But why have a video if isn't even "better" then the text, why not just have one cold hard version.
  • Edit history:
    TheQuietMan: 2008-04-01 03:03:41 am
    Complete. Global. Saturation.
    I'm glad everything got an update, especially those Out Of Bounds rules, as they were very sketchy.

    I'm also happy that the update makes Mike seem a lot more kind now then it did before. I still remember, "Chances are, I don't [care about the speedrun you're asking about]." It was like, wow, what a thing for the guy you need to talk to about the runs on the site to say.
    yes, america's most blunted
    are the panzer dragoon games included in the newly allowed games?  Cry
    Quote:
    I'm glad everything got an update, especially those Out Of Bounds rules, as they were very sketchy.

    I'm also happy that the update makes Mike seem a lot more kind now then it did before. I still remember, "Chances are, I don't [care about the speedrun you're asking about]." It was like, wow, what a thing for the guy you need to talk to about the runs on the site to say.

    typical user's perspective. the thing is that radix by virtue of posting anything was doing people a service. by not posting anything he was not doing anyone a disservice. it just looked that way because of the relative point of view (posting sometimes and not posting other times).

    the site is much easier to update now than it was in the past. also the work is split up among more people. finally mike and enhasa together have a very broad interest in games and this helps keep the work bearable. for my part the anri-chan project together with refusing submissions on vhs has drastically reduced the amount of time i have to put into the site.
    Edit history:
    TheQuietMan: 2008-04-01 05:11:40 am
    Complete. Global. Saturation.
    Quote:
    typical user's perspective. the thing is that radix by virtue of posting anything was doing people a service. by not posting anything he was not doing anyone a disservice. it just looked that way because of the relative point of view (posting sometimes and not posting other times).

    Um... that was being said by Mike, not Radix. And I'm not a "typical user", I am a human being! I don't know about Mike though, I swear that guy never sleeps. The constant service you provide also has me wondering if you're the Flash or something.
    Edit history:
    Enhasa: 2008-04-01 08:34:47 am
    everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
    DAP: Well official looking is good, but the biggest things were to 1) be less mean sounding, and 2) be more clear. The main goal was actually to make the docs presentable and ready to be translated to other languages, which I think is the area SDA can expand the most and most easily.

    Yeah, I think good old fashioned text is best. In terms of education theory, it's actually a lot easier to learn through text and possibly still images, over video, since you can go at your own pace. Also keep in mind how much easier it is to make future adjustments to text. I could go on but I don't think videos are a good idea, although they could look cool. Still, a large amount of effort for very little gain.



    Megatherium: Geez, I talked to you about this on IRC before right? Tongue We were talking specifically about PD even. Anyway, like I said, record or time yourself playing PD or PD Zwei, twice per stage (you don't have to do the whole thing of course, just a stage or two to test). The first time, play fast but not speedrun level. Second time, play as if you were doing a real speedrun. See if there is much difference at all. Probably not for PD or PD Zwei, since I don't think you can do anything about waves.

    PD Orta boss rush is definitely ok since people actually try to speedrun it (make sure you can at least match this guy) and rank is partially based on speed. PD Orta main game is ok if the dash move makes you go faster through the stage, which is what you said. The boy's missions, I'm trying to remember, but maybe they don't work (this is what you would test). The other challenges and stuff I think have the same problem.

    I should probably try this out with Rez. Or I would really appreciate it if you did, if you have it. I think you can manipulate waves, and I know you can shoot down analyzation cubes faster, but this could all be very minor, who knows. Boss rush is of course ok.

    Honestly since this site has such an incredible Nintendo bias from its early days, I want to just say blanket yes, but that wouldn't be fair. Oh and haha, PD Saga is allowed.



    TQM: When Mike took over for Radix, it was just a name swap in the submit and the verification thread etc. For the most part nothing got rewritten, so we always used to joke that people would think Mike was a total asshole, ha.

    About what nate is saying, I feel like I am defending Radix all the time whenever it comes up here or on IRC, but he deserves to be defended. Just like right now these rules changes might make sense, the rules that Radix had before also made some sense at the time. If you're one man behind everything, and it would be too much work to also process runs that you don't care about, I think you know what I mean.

    It's sort of brilliant really. Radix hates dealing with strangers, and strangers are also more likely to produce runs on games he doesn't care about. So if you put up this huge persona of being a crazy mean guy, everyone will treat you carefully and make life way easier for you. Which in the end was better for SDA.



    Since the stuff being brought up seems to be petering down, call for translators will probably go in the update after next. So hurry if you want to say something.
    Complete. Global. Saturation.
    Oh, okay. I didn't know that it used to be Radix and you didn't change the description. I can totally understand Radix's view though, it's not that he's a dick, it's that he created and ran a site as large as this by himself for a long time. He also had to do a lot more back then than he does now. I personally would consider it an honor if this site hosted my future runs, but the way your rules were written made it (correctly) sound like you dealt with a lot of people that didn't understand that privilege, or the work that went into everything.
    sda loyalist
    TNSQM: Please change your signature image. It's fucking huge.
    Edit history:
    65: 2008-04-01 07:57:04 pm
    "Systems such as the TurboGrafx-16 that come with official turbo-fire controllers are also allowed."

    With one reading that's certainly understandable, but now that I've read it multiple times, I have to ask...

    1) Does that mean the original controller is allowed, or that any turbo controller is allowed?

    2)The sentence seems to refer to the console, not the controller, making it harder to define which case we're talking about.

    I would also like to know what "the CD streaming trick in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess" means exactly, as it's impossible to translate it in a meaningful manner otherwise.
    everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
    In the translation thread, I will try to explain some of the more esoteric terms, and if anyone has a question about anything, they can ask and I will try to clarify.

    I don't know about Twilight Princess in particular, but in general, CD streaming means opening up the disc eject (think flip top for a GC or PS2) while playing. Systems typically refuse to read in such a state (which is why you need a mod to play imports even if you have a flip top), which can be useful if a game is trying to load a cutscene. It could fail to load the cutscene, then you close the top and continue playing.

    Of course, the next question might be: do we really need to ban this? The goal of these rules is to make it so someone wanting to compete doesn't have to also mod their game or system, and while this is less intrusive than say, a HD mod, it's still bad for your system to CD stream.


    1) Technically, only 1st party controllers are allowed. If you use turbo on a 3rd party controller, that is a feature that isn't in the 1st party controller. But if you don't, it doesn't matter since it's more or less equivalent, and how would we be able to tell anyway? So for TG16, since the 1st party has turbo, turbo from any controller would be fine.

    2) Ok, good point. I rewrote the whole section actually.
    Quote:
    - need "out of the box" run before alternate modes

    A 'scripted run' is a different category (it better be) then a 'normal/first-play-through run' right?
    Therefore, shouldn't the Half-Life games have 'out-of-box/normal' runs?

    Can the 'normal' run be on console and other categories on the same game be done on PC, vice-versa?
    Example: 'normal run/any%' of Area 51 on PC submitted first and added to the site, then a '100% Hard mode run' of Area 51 on Xbox.
    yes, america's most blunted
    it's not my loss, i've already beaten PD 1 and zwei, beautiful games, just wanted to share them with you. i admit there is no way to speed up the levels in PD1 but zwei does have branches that take different amounts of time if it matters.

    i also want to reiterate that i think runs using scripts are wack. if you can't do it, you can't do it. i don't see how anyone can argue that they are different from raid-fire auto controllers (or  worse, really). i think scripts just about ruined most of the HL2 runs in allowing the player to grab a piece of wood and surf above the entire game. it would be way cooler if they had to do it on their own and maybe were able to pull it off at key points, but not the whole game. plus bunnyhopping cinematography makes runs excruciatingly annoying to watch IMO. cloverfield fans may disagree.

    that issue needs to be empirically resolved. i know there aren't enough people that share the same view to have scripts banned, but simply making it a separate category and allowing that category to be done before an unaltered run of the game is effectively banning pure runs and you all know it.  :madpunch:
    everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
    I'm a very unpedantic person, so this thread is sort of annoying, but I'm glad it's getting ironed out now instead of later I guess. I've heard some people say that due to the wording, some things are hard to translate. I regret that, and this is why I originally wanted to start from scratch and not reuse anything, but this way was easier.



    No, alternate modes means things that are provided by the game, such as new game + or super hard difficulty or dante must die. Scripts/no scripts is like segmented/SS, %, etc.

    Ok, actually I read what it says in the FAQ and it seems pretty clear to me. Contesting this rule would also mean getting rid of it, not increasing its scope. Wink

    Quote:
    What about unlockable rewards and alternate modes?
    If a game has an unlockable character, bonus weapon, etc. that you collect as a reward, or other such alternate modes, a run on this mode will also be treated as a separate category. Generally, a new game run must be done before a run using an alternate mode. However, if the unlockable reward is a harder difficulty, then runs on this difficulty can be completed before a normal game run.



    To your different platforms question: yes, of course. (As an aside, it says clearly that hard mode runs are allowed first anyway.) The goal of this thread is to debate the possible rules changes, not pick on technicalities, so would you rather this be changed?

    Actually, I already decided my answer, I'll change it. The fact that anyone could get confused is enough for me. I'm actually surprised nobody is bitching about this one since it's pretty lame ("real name required" got more complaints lol).

    Mike told me that Radix didn't even have this rule in the first place. What happened is that when Molotov did Super Dante as the first run of DMC1, some guy bitched and bitched at Radix for some unknown reason (WHY DON'T YOU HAVE A NORMAL RUN ARGH). So since Radix is actually a very sensitive guy (it's true!), that rule was added even though nobody really cares about it. It's very unlikely that the average watcher even notices this, and all it does is make runners very sad. Some games it's not even possible to do a out of the box run, so instead nothing goes on SDA.

    So unknown bitching guy: shut it FU.



    For translators:

    Ideally you will be editing the HTML (it's easy) and since we serve UTF-8, you can just replace each sentence in the HTML with the translation. Currently the whitespace and formatting in the HTML is just spastic, so I'm going to make each sentence a separate line. Let me know if you think this is a good idea or if each paragraph should be its own line, autofill to 80 characters, whatever. It's easy for me to switch this around, but maybe this way is best.

    You may have to edit some simple links (e.g., faq_de.html instead of faq.html), but I'll get to that when it's time.
    Edit history:
    Enhasa: 2008-04-02 03:22:09 am
    everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
    Quote:
    zwei does have branches that take different amounts of time if it matters.

    Yeah, I was thinking about the branches. I don't think that's good enough though.

    Quote:
    i also want to reiterate that i think runs using scripts are wack.

    It's funny because I just edited the first post about the 1/2 sec penalty with: (prevents tas-ness... we allow external scripts which is also tas-ness but too late to do anything about that). I agree they are wack but at this point there would be more bitching if we disallowed scripts.
    yes, america's most blunted
    Quote:
    I don't think that's good enough though.

    whatever happened to spreading the sega love? if your primary concern is to avoid bitching, you should just give me this game and i'll shut up about scripts. and as unpedantic as you are, i surmise that you have no interest in explaining to me why rapid-fire controllers/emulator enhancements must suffer such a double standard. Tongue
    Fucking Weeaboo
    Quote:
    - Elimination of save warping and death abuse as extra categories.
    - Out of the box runs no longer required first.


    Well, the former were only noted for quite some time (like MM7 and ActRaiser) but I'm glad that one officially has been scrapped from the books.  It was a couple years due.

    As for no OOTB runs, that opens up some great new possibilities.  Like not needing to put up a crappy run just so the runner can work hard on a NG+ or something like that (see Okami).*






    *Note: I'm not saying the Okami run is bad.  I haven't watched it nor have played the game.  It was pretty well stated in the news post that it was done just so a NG+ run would be allowed on the site.