Need help deinterlacing this footage of Arcade Punch Out

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2017-04-28 06:52:38 pm

2017-04-15 11:31:18 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

So, I have a pretty unique situation that I've not seen before...

I have a supergun that is capable of playing the arcade Punchout games. However, it only outputs 60FPS progressive video, and I can't seem to capture this with any of my capture cards (they seem to be limited to 30FPS max perhaps). I've attached 5 seconds of a raw recording with Vdub. It's of course at 30FPS, but I felt like it'd be necessary to post it here along with this thread.

Anyone have any idea on how to record this, or is this actually impossible to accurately capture?

Thread title:

Attachment:

test.avi

UchihaSasuke

2017-04-17 08:17:12 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

one thing that came to mind was getting a transcoder that lets you turn an S-Video signal to component without any extra processing and then connect that to see if the capture card picks up the 60 fps video like that.

i don't have anything to replicate this situation so all i can do is guess.

zallard1

2017-04-23 02:45:35 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I don't have any component capture cards unfortunately. I'm not sure if this is something that has been looked into, but is there a list of known capture cards that are not limited to 30FPS capture for SD resolutions? If there isn't a list, then does anyone happen to know any cards at all that do this?

honorableJay

2017-04-24 06:28:13 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

From what I know and what I've been able to look up, s-video and composite max out at 480i @ 30hz due to industry limitations. Most capture devices, like the Dazzle, accept all signals on composite/s-video as 480i 30hz video even if it's 240p 60hz.

http://punchout.wikia.com/wiki/Punch-Out!!_(arcade)
According to this page, the two monitors output at 224x288 res. Since it's an arcade machine, I'm assuming that it's RGB and not natively s-video. In order to use s-video properly, you'd most likely have to take the standard RGB out and use a converter to get a usable 240p 60hz s-video signal for a standard capture device to accept (but that would only cover one of the monitors). You'd probably get better mileage out of converting the RGB to a component signal for a more modern capture card with less degradation.

I suggest you try to get in touch with Murphagator and Oasiz since they have more experience working with and capturing this type of footage than I do. Good luck.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2017-04-28 07:16:08 pm

2017-04-28 06:52:07 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Ok so, it seems like EZcaps just seem to have trouble picking up an interlaced signal from my supergun, because dazzles seem to pick it up fine. But now I have a new problem...

I've attached an encode from anri (yes I know, I still haven't gotten yua yet) called opponents.mp4 that shows the issue I'm having. Everything looks fine when you go frame by frame EXCEPT Glass Joe's sprite does some really weird flickering that doesn't happen when you're watching the game live. If you look at when he's bowing at the start of the fight, you'll see his mouth and nose flickering up and down every other frame. For comparison, you can watch the TAS of this game at 60FPS on youtube and look at what every other frame looks like when Glass Joe is standing still (you can press , to go back a frame and . to go forward a frame).

I've also attached part of the raw interlaced video to this post. If anyone has any idea on how to correctly deinterlace this video, please let me know!

Ok so, it seems like EZcaps just seem to have trouble picking up an interlaced signal from my supergun, because dazzles seem to pick it up fine. But now I have a new problem...

I've attached an encode from anri (yes I know, I still haven't gotten yua yet) called opponents.mp4 that shows the issue I'm having. Everything looks fine when you go frame by frame EXCEPT Glass Joe's sprite does some really weird flickering that doesn't happen when you're watching the game live. If you look at when he's bowing at the start of the fight, you'll see his mouth and nose flickering up and down every other frame. For comparison, you can watch the TAS of this game at 60FPS on youtube and look at what every other frame looks like when Glass Joe is standing still (you can press , to go back a frame and . to go forward a frame).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC5Jd4ranIM

I've also attached part of the raw interlaced video to this post. If anyone has any idea on how to correctly deinterlace this video, please let me know!

Attachments:

how_should_this_be_deinterlaced.avi

opponents.mp4

nate

2017-04-29 12:56:23 pm

yeah i actually see those artifacts you are talking about all through the video, not just at the beginning. my guess is they are being introduced in the conversion from 288 lines to 240. in other words, when you later field-split, you see evidence that the resize happened starting on a different line every frame. all i can say is, at least it was done in the right order - resized, then interlaced - not interlaced, then resized! the latter would have been far worse and looked like total garbage.

in the grand scheme of things i don't think it looks *too* bad how it is. but if you want to get a better picture, more true to the original, you may have to shell out for a progressive scan capture device.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2017-04-29 05:07:50 pm

2017-04-29 03:24:00 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Hm ok. If a field is discarded, this issue never comes up (or at least never looked jarring enough to get my attention). It looked pretty decent in motion without any weirdness from the opponent sprites.

If I were to submit runs of this game here, what would you prefer? A 30FPS recording for bottom screen with framerate doubled to 60, and the top screen deinterlaced at 60FPS? Or would you prefer having both screens deinterlaced to 60FPS with nothing discarded, but the opponent sprite jittering is present? For youtube, I'm probably going with the former option.

EDIT: So, the top screen also has the exact same problem as the bottom screen now that I got a chance to test that out. It isn't apparent for most of the time since the screen is usually just showing the HP, but it does show up during the intro splash screen and the high score table. I think I'm just gonna submit 60FPS encodes for both screens on SDA since you didn't think it looked too bad, and 30FPS for youtube. Let me know if you & SDA would rather have 30FPS for both screens with no jitter, or 60FPS for both screens with jitter on both of them.

Hm ok. If a field is discarded, this issue never comes up (or at least never looked jarring enough to get my attention). It looked pretty decent in motion without any weirdness from the opponent sprites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2mc6N21bc4

If I were to submit runs of this game here, what would you prefer? A 30FPS recording for bottom screen with framerate doubled to 60, and the top screen deinterlaced at 60FPS? Or would you prefer having both screens deinterlaced to 60FPS with nothing discarded, but the opponent sprite jittering is present? For youtube, I'm probably going with the former option.

EDIT: So, the top screen also has the exact same problem as the bottom screen now that I got a chance to test that out. It isn't apparent for most of the time since the screen is usually just showing the HP, but it does show up during the intro splash screen and the high score table. I think I'm just gonna submit 60FPS encodes for both screens on SDA since you didn't think it looked too bad, and 30FPS for youtube. Let me know if you & SDA would rather have 30FPS for both screens with no jitter, or 60FPS for both screens with jitter on both of them.

nate

2017-05-04 11:15:59 am

yeah that sounds good.