Merry Gear Solid 2: The Ghosts of Christmas Past

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2015-05-02 09:07:58 am

2015-02-20 04:53:03 pm

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Merry Gear Solid 2: The Ghosts of Christmas Past (pc) (pc) [Low %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Reject

Reason: Based on the provided details, it seems that the in-game timer is not only accurate but also considered the standard for this game. As such, not skipping the intro alone is enough for a reject.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/1333/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2015-02-20 04:53:11 pm

Run Information

Merry Gear Solid 2: The Ghosts of Christmas Past (pc) (pc) [Low %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/merry%20gear%20solid-v_HQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting. Verifications are due by March 6, 2015.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.

After 2 weeks I will read all of the verifications and move this thread to the main verification board and post my verdict.

ktwo

2015-02-26 12:33:57 pm

The time at the end says 20:22. http://www.twitch.tv/inamurei/c/4116862 (possibly from the same runner?) is a 19:13. I haven't watched either run, but whether it's rng, execution or route differences, being more than a minute behind in a 20 minute run is too much imo.

Reject

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2015-03-01 06:41:54 am

LotBlind: 2015-03-01 06:41:40 am

2015-03-01 06:39:32 am

ktwo: the only problem with what you're doing (I get you're being efficient which is great) is shouldn't you at least check if they time their runs the same? Maybe you did.

~~In any case the upload seems totally corrupted.~~ EDIT: Whoops that seems to be my end. Nvm.

ymh

2015-03-01 06:59:46 am

Quote from ktwo:

The time at the end says 20:22. http://www.twitch.tv/inamurei/c/4116862 (possibly from the same runner?) is a 19:13. I haven't watched either run, but whether it's rng, execution or route differences, being more than a minute behind in a 20 minute run is too much imo.

Reject

You can skip the intro which is more than 1 min long by exiting and continuing the game. This run includes the intro ('for the sake of the proper intro to the game.'), while the one on Twitch doesn't.
I personally think that the faster way (skipping the intro) should have priority over displaying the proper intro (I can see the runner's good intention), so that would be a reason for me to reject it, even tho the rest of the run looks good.

UraniumAnchor

2015-03-01 08:09:49 am

Not a walrus

If the intro is timed then the runner should skip it, yes. Is that the case here?

wōn

Edit history:

wōn: 2015-03-01 08:42:53 am

2015-03-01 08:30:26 am

If the intro is skipped by restarting the game, the first guard's cycle blocks you and forces you to slowly walk behind him. In the submitted run the guard keeps moving during the intro sequence since it's happening "in game", and as a result his movement happens to be well timed for the player to run past him without stopping.

So gameplay-wise the submitted run starts off faster and stays so until 14 seconds is lost at 7:51. Instead of leaning against the wall, the runner accidentally runs over the metal floor, which makes the guard in the next room hear the footsteps and block the path forward.
This drops the gameplay behind the Twitch-run, even though couple seconds are saved back with risky strats, 9:16 and with the guard before the sock for example.

Video quality looks good (should the borders be cropped?), but it's a shame that a part of OBS is seen right away. Mouse cursor sits on screen most notably from 2:10 to 4:32 during gameplay until it's fixed when changing the computers date a week ahead in order to defeat the milkman boss.
Few other times the mouse cursor appears again on screen out of nowhere, but it's fixed right away (except 13:17 it's moved over the upper left corner). It is kept off screen for the majority of the run though.
At ~20min mouse is used to drag-and-drop a file from the installation folder to the game screen to beat the last boss, so that's ok.
Didn't catch anything for the rest of run, just great timing and work avoiding the guards! Game is indeed completed with 0 alerts and the Boss rank.

I timed both runs from the moment control is gained to hitting the mailbox (=gameplay only[?]). Twitch-run is approx. 19:12 and the submitted one is about 19:17/18. The 7:51 mistake is a bummer but I don't really think it's that huge. But of course better could be done, and if you want to keep comparing further, there's a 18:57 run too.
Only looking at the gameplay, and timing it based on that, for a first submission of this game I'd like to say accept.
But noting the OBS and mouse things and if only the in-game timer is looked at, I'm leaning bit more towards reject as a cleaner run (recording, agreement on timing) could be submitted, and hope so.

If the intro is skipped by restarting the game, the first guard's cycle blocks you and forces you to slowly walk behind him. In the submitted run the guard keeps moving during the intro sequence since it's happening "in game", and as a result his movement happens to be well timed for the player to run past him without stopping.

So gameplay-wise the submitted run starts off faster and stays so until 14 seconds is lost at 7:51. Instead of leaning against the wall, the runner accidentally runs over the metal floor, which makes the guard in the next room hear the footsteps and block the path forward.
This drops the gameplay behind the Twitch-run, even though couple seconds are saved back with risky strats, 9:16 and with the guard before the sock for example.

Video quality looks good (should the borders be cropped?), but it's a shame that a part of OBS is seen right away. Mouse cursor sits on screen most notably from 2:10 to 4:32 during gameplay until it's fixed when changing the computers date a week ahead in order to defeat the milkman boss.
Few other times the mouse cursor appears again on screen out of nowhere, but it's fixed right away (except 13:17 it's moved over the upper left corner). It is kept off screen for the majority of the run though.
At ~20min mouse is used to drag-and-drop a file from the installation folder to the game screen to beat the last boss, so that's ok.
Didn't catch anything for the rest of run, just great timing and work avoiding the guards! Game is indeed completed with 0 alerts and the Boss rank.

I timed both runs from the moment control is gained to hitting the mailbox (=gameplay only[?]). Twitch-run is approx. 19:12 and the submitted one is about 19:17/18. The 7:51 mistake is a bummer but I don't really think it's [i]that[/i] huge. But of course better could be done, and if you want to keep comparing further, there's a [url=http://www.twitch.tv/ea5t0n/c/4222435]18:57[/url] run too.
Only looking at the gameplay, and timing it based on that, for a first submission of this game I'd like to say accept.
But noting the OBS and mouse things and if only the in-game timer is looked at, I'm leaning bit more towards reject as a cleaner run (recording, agreement on timing) could be submitted, and hope so.

ktwo

2015-03-01 09:43:42 am

I went by the in-game timer, which is shown at the very end of the credits. If the in-game timer is incorrect in this game (I personally don't know, but I just assumed it could be used as it seems like that's what the runners use for their timing), I will either have a second look or just take back the reject.

LotBlind

2015-03-01 02:10:34 pm

ktwo: okay I misunderstood what you did. I thought you literally only looked at the video lengths or something like that.

I guess the thing is whether this game already had some kind of tradition and community for what to do with the intro right? Because it's not a trivial question due to affecting the start situation. This thread from 2009 shows that the tradition definitely looks to be using the in-game timer even though someone says it's difficult to tell when it starts and stops: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/merry_gear_solid_2.html

Furthermore what UA is saying makes it pretty clear: it obviously gets timed, that's the only explanation for having an in-game time that much slower. So it should be skipped for that universal convention too. And to be fair even when they're not timed they often get skipped. In practice the run isn't much worse (looking at won's comments) although you have to remember the small time saved, maybe 2-3 seconds from getting the better guard pattern off the start. Having the cursor on the screen I'm willing to ignore because it seems to be part of the gameplay in a few spots though I'm not sure, maybe there's an easy way to configure the recording software not to include it.

"All in all, this run has a LOT of room for improvement, without any of the stops and with the use of riskier strats, there is a definite minute and a half that can be improved upon the run. " That's from the notes. So all in all it doesn't seem too harsh to

reject for now

ktwo: okay I misunderstood what you did. I thought you literally only looked at the video lengths or something like that.

I guess the thing is whether this game already had some kind of tradition and community for what to do with the intro right? Because it's not a trivial question due to affecting the start situation. This thread from 2009 shows that the tradition definitely looks to be using the in-game timer even though someone says it's difficult to tell when it starts and stops: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/merry_gear_solid_2.html

Furthermore what UA is saying makes it pretty clear: it obviously gets timed, that's the only explanation for having an in-game time that much slower. So it should be skipped for that universal convention too. And to be fair even when they're not timed they often get skipped. In practice the run isn't much worse (looking at won's comments) although you have to remember the small time saved, maybe 2-3 seconds from getting the better guard pattern off the start. Having the cursor on the screen I'm willing to ignore because it seems to be part of the gameplay in a few spots though I'm not sure, maybe there's an easy way to configure the recording software not to include it.

"All in all, this run has a LOT of room for improvement, without any of the stops and with the use of riskier strats, there is a definite minute and a half that can be improved upon the run. " That's from the notes. So all in all it doesn't seem too harsh to

reject for now

Judgy

2015-04-04 12:57:04 pm

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

after watching it, it seems like good execution but it can be improved and given the evidence of a run which is 20 seconds faster and the runners own admittance that the run can be improved by over a minute for a 20 minute run leaves me giving the verdict of..

Reject (Due to faster known times and the runners own knowledge that the faster known times can be beaten by quite a margin)

SDAVerification

2015-05-02 09:08:00 am

Decision posted.