Mark of the Ninja (PC/XBLA)

Vyreck

Edit history:

Vyreck: 2015-10-12 01:49:33 pm

2015-10-12 01:48:15 pm

Quote from Akitaka1:

Last night I found a way to skip Karajan's castle entirely while still staying in bounds. A byproduct of the focus chain is that the first Item you throw can go through walls. However, when bugs are thrown with the focus chain, they still kill people upon contact, including Karajan!

K, we really need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds. Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall. Serious discussion time.

emlun

2015-10-12 02:03:27 pm

Quote from Akitaka1:

Last night I found a way to skip Karajan's castle entirely while still staying in bounds. A byproduct of the focus chain is that the first Item you throw can go through walls. However, when bugs are thrown with the focus chain, they still kill people upon contact, including Karajan!

emlun

2015-10-12 02:38:51 pm

Quote from Vyreck:

K, we really need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds. Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall. Serious discussion time.

I agree that the category definition as it currently stands allows this nonsense. Cheesy

The category is currently defined in terms of how the player character can move and how Serenity can be "thrown". The player moves through no boundaries and Serenity is not used in this trick, so I'd say it falls squarely in the allowed with the current definition. If it turns out this trick also allows "throwing" Serenity through walls, however, that will complicate things as that would nullify the difference between OoB and No-OoB categories under the current definition.

Vyreck

2015-10-12 02:47:59 pm

Quote from emlun:

Quote from Vyreck:

K, we really need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds. Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall. Serious discussion time.

I agree that the category definition as it currently stands allows this nonsense. Cheesy

The category is currently defined in terms of how the player character can move and how Serenity can be "thrown". The player moves through no boundaries and Serenity is not used in this trick, so I'd say it falls squarely in the allowed with the current definition. If it turns out this trick also allows "throwing" Serenity through walls, however, that will complicate things as that would nullify the difference between OoB and No-OoB categories under the current definition.

We tried it, and can confirm it just causes the serenety slide. So it's only items than phase. And since bugs are like the only item worth using anyways (deployables never contact a surface and don't work) i'm going to be calling this Bug-Warping. unless Akitaka wants a different name.

[quote="emlun"][quote="Vyreck"]K, we [b]really[/b] need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds.  Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall.  Serious discussion time.[/quote]
I agree that the category definition as it currently stands allows this nonsense. :D The category is currently defined in terms of how the player character can move and how Serenity can be "thrown". The player moves through no boundaries and Serenity is not used in this trick, so I'd say it falls squarely in the allowed with the current definition. If it turns out this trick also allows "throwing" Serenity through walls, however, that will complicate things as that would nullify the difference between OoB and No-OoB categories under the current definition.[/quote]

We tried it, and can confirm it just causes the serenety slide.  So it's only items than phase.  And since bugs are like the only item worth using anyways (deployables never contact a surface and don't work) i'm going to be calling this Bug-Warping.  unless Akitaka wants a different name.

emlun

2015-10-12 05:14:02 pm

I just did a NoOoBake run clocking in at 43:18, but the dog under the chandelier in lv6 raised an alert so it's invalid. My sum of best segments is now 41:19. A few more optimizations, tricks and/or skips like that, and this category is going sub-40! Cheesy

Vyreck

2015-10-12 10:30:28 pm

Quote from emlun:

I just did a NoOoBake run clocking in at 43:18, but the dog under the chandelier in lv6 raised an alert so it's invalid. My sum of best segments is now 41:19. A few more optimizations, tricks and/or skips like that, and this category is going sub-40! Cheesy

That dog tends to do that, you need to fall farther to the right of it

ChazneySR

Edit history:

ChazneySR: 2015-10-16 10:06:13 am

2015-10-16 10:01:48 am

Quote:

K, we really need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds. Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall. Serious discussion time.

No-OoB has been a massive debate since it was first created as the "Glitchless" category. Glitchless is extremely subjective (is speeding up the tracking device guard in level 3 follow segment a glitch? Some people would say yes, others would call it unintended behavior), and so instead of listing all the glitches, we opted to allow minor glitches and define OoB instead. In a traditional sense, OoB refers to the player remaining in bounds, and as such the definition refers to where the player is able to be, and nothing else.

So of course, if we still had the legacy Glitchless category, this would be straight up banned. However, in a strict No-OoB sense, this is allowed, so go for it. Designing any category rule set other than Any% is a difficult task; it's almost impossible to give everyone what they want (some people would want the definition to allow item OoB, and others would not).

[quote]K, we really need a verdict on this one for In/Out of bounds.  Akitaka and I were more on the in bounds side, as you never enter any void-space but serenity IS an item and usually collides with that wall.  Serious discussion time.[/quote]

No-OoB has been a massive debate since it was first created as the "Glitchless" category. Glitchless is extremely subjective (is speeding up the tracking device guard in level 3 follow segment a glitch? Some people would say yes, others would call it unintended behavior), and so instead of listing all the glitches, we opted to allow minor glitches and define OoB instead. In a traditional sense, OoB refers to the player remaining in bounds, and as such the definition refers to where the player is able to be, and nothing else.

So of course, if we still had the legacy Glitchless category, this would be straight up banned. However, in a strict No-OoB sense, this is allowed, so go for it. Designing any category rule set other than Any% is a difficult task; it's almost impossible to give everyone what they want (some people would want the definition to allow item OoB, and others would not).

emlun

2015-11-07 11:32:31 am

Hiya folks! Akitaka1 and I were talking about a race tomorrow, anyone interested? I suppose we can preliminarily say about 2015-11-08T18:00Z as the start time, but we can flex it around if necessary. Any takers?

Akitaka1

2015-11-07 05:05:25 pm

Quote from emlun:

Hiya folks! Akitaka1 and I were talking about a race tomorrow, anyone interested? I suppose we can preliminarily say about 2015-11-08T18:00Z as the start time, but we can flex it around if necessary. Any takers?

I'm fine with that time. We can probably iron out the specifics before the race starts.

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-11-13 05:59:35 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-11-13 05:52:20 pm

2015-11-13 05:51:59 pm

I finished my first complete seals and scrolls run today. Unfortunately, I did it off stream since my internet's been acting up lately. However, there's plenty of room for improvement, and I'll try to get a run in video form soon.

EDIT: I forgot to get the nightmare seal in the inner keep, so the run is invalid anyways.

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-11-17 07:37:36 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-11-17 07:37:24 pm

2015-11-17 07:27:39 pm

During my latest run I was more than 10 minutes under the current S&S WR but I forgot to buy an upgrade and couldn't complete the very last seal in the last level. Feel free to laugh at my pain.

Vyreck

2015-11-17 07:56:24 pm

Quote from Akitaka1:

During my latest run I was more than 10 minutes under the current S&S WR but I forgot to buy an upgrade and couldn't complete the very last seal in the last level. Feel free to laugh at my pain.

Sad day.

Akitaka1

2015-11-18 08:05:29 pm

http://www.twitch.tv/akitaka1/v/26518034
This run is the S&S wr, but it really shouldn't be. I lost a lot of time in levels 6-13, and I actually had to reset level 11 because I got detected and immediately ran into a checkpoint.

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-11-25 01:51:45 am

Akitaka1: 2015-11-25 12:09:49 am

Akitaka1: 2015-11-25 12:08:01 am

Akitaka1: 2015-11-25 12:06:39 am

Akitaka1: 2015-11-25 12:05:44 am

2015-11-25 12:04:10 am

I don't know if anybody is running this game anymore or if I'm just raising this thread from the dead over and over again, but I've found an exploit that will potentially shave more than one minute off of NG Oob runs. There is a tiny space where the floor and a wall intersect that is possible to stand on while still being treated as out of bounds. From this spot, you can then sprint jump, gaining additional height and executing strats that were only possible using focus flying and serenity before. I've found two methods to get to this spot, but both are very difficult from my experience. After about 2 hours of practice my success rate is around 1 in 10 on average using the first method and around 1 in 15 using the second.

The first method involves wallkicking out of bounds and then going a tiny bit to the left before focus bouncing upwards. This is the easier method.

The second method is performed by wallkicking out of bounds and then going left and focus canceling the second kick of the kicks used to clip through the wall in the first place. The only place that I see this being useful is level 1 where there is no way to focus bounce.

I've found the most success by using audio cues and visual markers to see where I should start to go left. I'm not sure if this is plausible in a single segment run due to it's difficulty, but I'm hoping that it will be.

I don't know if anybody is running this game anymore or if I'm just raising this thread from the dead over and over again, but I've found an exploit that will potentially shave more than one minute off of NG Oob runs. There is a tiny space where the floor and a wall intersect that is possible to stand on while still being treated as out of bounds. From this spot, you can then sprint jump, gaining additional height and executing strats that were only possible using focus flying and serenity before. I've found two methods to get to this spot, but both are very difficult from my experience. After about 2 hours of practice my success rate is around 1 in 10 on average using the first method and around 1 in 15 using the second.

The first method involves wallkicking out of bounds and then going a tiny bit to the left before focus bouncing upwards. This is the easier method.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eiKXRkNPM[/url]

The second method is performed by wallkicking out of bounds and then going left and focus canceling the second kick of the kicks used to clip through the wall in the first place. The only place that I see this being useful is level 1 where there is no way to focus bounce.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8J2MZKI9-0[/url]

I've found the most success by using audio cues and visual markers to see where I should start to go left. I'm not sure if this is plausible in a single segment run due to it's difficulty, but I'm hoping that it will be.

emlun

2015-11-26 04:54:16 am

Quote from Akitaka1:

I don't know if anybody is running this game anymore or if I'm just raising this thread from the dead over and over again

I run it occasionally, but exclusively NG NoOoBake for now. I've been wanting to shave a few minutes off my WR runs, but there are so many other things I want to do too. Smiley

I'm still interested in racing, though, so just shout if you want to race sometime.

Vyreck

2015-11-28 07:46:53 pm

Quote from emlun:

Quote from Akitaka1:

I don't know if anybody is running this game anymore or if I'm just raising this thread from the dead over and over again

I run it occasionally, but exclusively NG NoOoBake for now. I've been wanting to shave a few minutes off my WR runs, but there are so many other things I want to do too. Smiley

I'm still interested in racing, though, so just shout if you want to race sometime.

getting back into it myself, but been rather busy for the last month or two...

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-12-11 06:13:43 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-11 06:12:36 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-11 06:12:20 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-11 06:08:18 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-11 05:41:35 pm

2015-12-11 05:31:04 pm

The NG Obake sub-30 dream is real. I accidentally split early during a blade at his neck, btw.
Splits:

Video:

emlun

Edit history:

emlun: 2015-12-12 08:18:13 pm

emlun: 2015-12-12 08:02:54 pm

2015-12-12 07:58:42 pm

Woo! Nice work! Cheesy

EDIT: Oh wow, those floors 15 and 16 in level 2. Beauty. <3
EDIT 2: Oh, my, gods. You figured out the helipad skip! o.O Is this the first video you've posted of it?

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-12-13 03:25:09 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-13 03:24:49 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-13 03:24:07 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-13 03:23:51 am

2015-12-12 09:14:06 pm

Quote from emlun:

Oh, my, gods. You figured out the helipad skip! o.O Is this the first video you've posted of it?

If you mean the skip in the inner keep, I made a post a couple of weeks ago about it. I really need to find a better setup for it. Failing over and over again wastes so much time :/

Vyreck

2015-12-19 07:37:45 pm

Sometime next week I'll be in a Reddit/speedrun community event running Nooobake. I'll get the details in as I have them but if anyone wants to commentate let me know.

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-12-20 02:37:25 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-20 02:36:48 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-20 02:36:03 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-20 02:35:48 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-20 02:34:50 am

Akitaka1: 2015-12-19 09:36:12 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-19 09:33:19 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-19 09:33:07 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-19 09:32:48 pm

2015-12-19 09:32:39 pm

Quote from Vyreck:

Sometime next week I'll be in a Reddit/speedrun community event running Nooobake. I'll get the details in as I have them but if anyone wants to commentate let me know.

That's really awesome! I'll definitely watch it if I can. Also, safety strats Tongue

emlun

2015-12-20 01:18:11 am

Quote from Vyreck:

Sometime next week I'll be in a Reddit/speedrun community event running Nooobake. I'll get the details in as I have them but if anyone wants to commentate let me know.

Cool! I sure am interested in commentating.

Vyreck

2015-12-22 05:45:59 pm

My run is noon local time (eastern standard) on the 1st. If you want to commentate they are using Discord. Link is in this doc with all other event stuff.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HeiMsnUtC09jJt19MjKgmlr7KLBI2MXxPieAoHNf2kU/htmlview?pli=1#M

Akitaka1

Edit history:

Akitaka1: 2015-12-22 08:20:27 pm

Akitaka1: 2015-12-22 08:20:15 pm

2015-12-22 08:20:00 pm

Quote from Vyreck:

My run is noon local time (eastern standard) on the 1st. If you want to commentate they are using Discord. Link is in this doc with all other event stuff.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HeiMsnUtC09jJt19MjKgmlr7KLBI2MXxPieAoHNf2kU/htmlview?pli=1#M

Unfortunately I'm not available to commentate on the first Sad

. I'll definitely try to watch though. Good luck!

emlun

2016-01-09 08:46:47 pm

I spent some time today timing Path of the Ninja vs. Silence on level 9 (A Blade at His Neck) NoOoBake with the "new" Karajan skip. It actually turned out that, at least for me, starting with Silence and then switching to the bugs just before the castle is a couple of seconds faster and, more importantly, much more consistent.