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nate: 2008-05-27 02:09:50 am
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Thanks to Jason for the notice on what has to be the most surprising run to exist without my knowledge (BTW, I know Radix normally finds verifiers, but he asked me to help on finding a verifier for Jaws, so I just thought I'd preemptively attempt the same for this game).  Okay, on Twin Galaxies there is a run for Marble Madness.  For some reason, my computer will not cooperate with me, and it refuses to play the downloaded file of this guy's run.  What I need to know is if his time, 3:15 according to Jason, includes only the time when the player controls the movement of the marble (as from the times between starting positions and finish lines) or if 3:15 is the exact amount of time that passes between when he hits "end" after entering his name and starts the first level to when he crosses the final finish line.  The run I have is done by my brother and I would be surprised if someone beat it as he never dies and makes almost no mistakes; I'm thinking that if I cut out the moments when he is not in control of the marble,  like during a transition to a new level, then he'd have way below the 3:20 I initially timed (double checking that time later tonight).  It is possible, of course,  that the other run is just superior, but I'd really like to see this analysis made.   That, or it'd be great if someone could tell me why I can't view it.   Thanks!
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sdkess: 2005-09-01 05:10:40 am
Jungle Rat
Hi, the Marble Madness run at TG is mine. I also have the video on my server:

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to view the video if you can view ones from here. It was encoded with DivX for video and MP3 for sound.

My run is a high score run although I went fast since speed increases score. The only major thing I'd change for a true speed run is the enemy squashing on the Silly Race. I do this to gain more clock time for extra points, but it wastes real time. Also, getting "blessed" by a wand is good in a score run but bad in a speed run. I got 2 wands in this run which resulted in a higher score than other runs I've had that were technically better with 0 wands. I loathe randomness...

I'm not sure how the timing would be done, but my run is about 3:15 from the moment I gain control of the Marble to the moment that I finish the Ultimate Race.

EDIT: By your timing, my run is 3:22.
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Emptyeye: 2005-09-01 05:10:32 am
Talk to the Hand
No clue why you can't view it...maybe you don't have WinRAR for some reason? That's the program you'd use to uncompress and view the file.

As for the times, from the time he hits "end" on the name screen to the time he crosses the final finish line, I end up with a time of 3:21-3:22. I get 3:15 if I time "from start of control to end of control", IE when you first gain control of the marble at the Practice Race to crossing the finish line of the Ultimate Race.

EDIT: I just got "pwned" by the man who did the run. Um, go me?
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sdkess: 2005-09-01 05:16:22 am
Jungle Rat
Hehe, simultaneous postings. I forgot to mention that I also died once in that run. Again, I've done better and had no deaths, but the wands overcame the mistakes in this run.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Wow.  I really have to thank you for your honest and expedient responses on this. 
If your timing is based on when the marble first becomes  under your control in the first level, then yes, I believe my brother has narrowly squeaked out a faster run with a time of 3:14:61.  This is probably only due to the fact that he encounters only one wand and never dies.  I'm sure your run gives his a long run for its money. 
In case you're wondering, my brother only scored 161,760.  My guess is that you have a higher point total, and so I'm sure Radix would allow for the two runs both to be displayed, one speed and one speed-high score.  That is, of course, assuming that you would want your run posted on SDA. 
Well, if nobody minds, I'm going to see if Radix is interested in posting my brother's run.  Thanks a lot for the help.  (BTW, i think my download manager, fresh downloads, doesn't recognize the file extension.  Someday I'll check it out when I revert back to Internet Explorer (Mozilla quits the download every time).)
My feelings on The Demon Rush
In case you're wondering, my brother only scored 161,760.  My guess is that you have a higher point total, and so I'm sure Radix would allow for the two runs both to be displayed, one speed and one speed-high score.

Wrong, like Radix always says this is Speed Demos Archive, not high scores archive.  I know high score is related to speed in this game, but there are still factors that make each run different (like the wand).  I'm not saying SDKess's run is bad (it's very good), but it shouldn't be on SDA because it aims for score instead of speed.
Jungle Rat
this is Speed Demos Archive, not high scores archive.

That's exactly why I didn't submit my run to SDA. Sure it's fast, but unless I'm aiming primarily for speed, I don't consider a run to be a true speed run. I aimed primarily for score so my run is a high score run.

In addition to speed and high score runs, I've also done no-death and minimal damage runs. There's definitely some overlap in the goals for each type of run, but the primary goal/aim determines the category.

Anyway congrats to your brother on his run! I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Oh, yeah, you guys are probably right. 
I just thought that since certain games, like Starfox  or Diablo II recently, have had more than one run posted simultatneously and therefore have had a faster run and a slower but with an extra achievement run, that maybe this game would receive similar allowance.  Although, you're right; SDA is about speed and so if one is done faster, that's probably all that needs contributed. 
Starfox has two listings most likely  because the European version is somehow different enough from the American version for another run to count, and Diablo II would probably be allowed to have runs under each character class or something as it gradates into somewhat of a new speed run for each.
ANYWAY, thanks for the enthusiasm sdkess; I expect that the two runs have nearly unnoticeable differences considering the time difference, but I think it'll be good for this underrated game to have a legitimate spot on SDA, regardless. 
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I am trying to get my run on this site.  I had 175,340 points.  I sent it to radix, hopefully hell be able to get it on with his busy schedule.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I heard of a glitch discovered by the emulator boys

If your marble goes too fast and goes past the bottom of the screen, your marble will die.
I'm addicted to games
I am trying to get my run on this site.  I had 175,340 points.

Well, you were clealy going for points not time. Despite that, you came out faster. I was hoping you could try another run where you just go for speed, since you'll obviously be even faster still. Plus then the video would hopefully not have weird encoding rectangles...
Jungle Rat
There's a little shortcut that nobody is using on the Silly Race. None of the NES videos I have seen use it, including the TAS. It isn't easy to do and only saves a little time so I never even bother. Still, it might be worth a look if someone tries this again. After the section with the Birds, you go up a hill. From this hill, you can get to the open left area without going around the upper cornering section.

As I said, it's tricky, but I have done it on my NES so it is possible. I reckon it could save around 2 seconds.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Since my video wont be on this site you can temporarily download it here.
Or get it from me from AIM sn: MengskX
It may be a while before I do a specific run for time. 
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
i forgot to add the time.  It would be 305.  I believe i can get sub 300 going straight for time.  I am working on F-Zero GX at the moment though.  I will try that shortcut on Silly Race, when i play again.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
I haven't timed myself, but my high score is 161,090. I didn't get the wand, which is good. And for Radix complaining about the controls, the arcade version (like everything else) is so much better in all respects. Specifically, it has a trackball, which is so perfect it is almost beautiful.
spread the dirt to the populace
the arcade version (like everything else) is so much better in all respects.

Ehrm...Bionic Commando, anyone? =)

Another is Super Dodge Ball, you couldn't select teams or players in the arcade version.  Plus there wasn't an EVIL CLONE TEAM! =(

Double Dragon, maybe, the arcade version didn't have the one-on-one mode or the level-up system.

You could also make a case for Rygar, and even maybe the Contra games; sure, the arcade Contras had way more enemies on the screen, but the NES ones had more levels, and those levels were longer and better-designed than the arcade's.

Oh, and I just remembered another one: Double Dragon II.  If you have MAME, find the first two DD games and you'll see that #2 is the single-laziest excuse for a sequel ever.  The enemies are all the same, just with different sprites; the bosses are new, but one of them was just a modification of Andre the Giant's sprite from WWF Superstars.  And the levels are EXACTLY the same in #2, with a couple new obstacles thrown in.  The NES DD2, on the other hand, is the best game in the whole franchise IMO.

...Yeah, I was bored and felt like being a picky bastard. =P

To keep this on topic, nice shortcut sdkess!  And yes indeed, randomness sucks. =/

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I never played any of the games on the arcade version, I feel like im missing out.
Talk to the Hand
Ninja Gaiden (Which was advertised as "THE #1 ARCADE SMASH!" despite having little to do with the arcade game of the same name) is another example of the console version being better than the arcade one.

On-topic, it's been asked many times before, but has anyone figured out how to consistently get the wands to appear (Or not) in the NES version?
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
As I played I found no consistency of getting the wands.  I never got a wand on the 1st or last level.  I have got the wand on all different areas of the other levels.  I even got a wand in the finish line and then it added it up when I began the next level. It seems strange that it would be random, but from what I've experienced it is.  Does anyone have the intruction packet of the game?
Jungle Rat
I'm in agreement with Josh and Emptyeye on all of the arcade games they mentioned. Bionic Commando and Ninja Gaiden are two of my favorite NES games, but I don't like either arcade version much. I've also played Double Dragon 1 & 2 in the arcade and would take the NES games any day. The only disappointment I had with the first NES installment was the lack of 2-player simultaneous play, but that was rectified in the sequel!

I've also played both Contra games and prefer the NES versions in spite of the inferior graphics. The gameplay just feels better to me.

I had a chance to play Marble Madness at the Funspot arcade this past summer, and it is pretty cool. The trackball control is amazing, but I think it would have been better if the sensitivity was increased. I had to whip the trackball incredibly fast to gain any decent speed. It felt very disproportional. I played Crystal Castles afterward (another trackball game), and it felt perfect in control and sensitivity which makes me wonder if the MM trackball needed some adjustment.

I believe the wands are random on the NES version although it does seem that you're less likely to get one if you're speeding along and doing well. That could just be skewed perception though. I don't believe the instruction manual even mentions the wands.
dinosaur from the past
I believe the wands are random on the NES version although it does seem that you're less likely to get one if you're speeding along and doing well. That could just be skewed perception though.

It could also be that going faster gives the game less chances to see if it should give you a wand.
Jungle Rat
Right, if you spend less time in a level, the likelihood of getting a wand in that level decreases if it is truly random. Also, like Mengsk, I have never gotten a wand on levels 1 & 6 although I once got a wand after crossing the finish line on 5 and was awarded the extra time at the beginning of 6.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Re arcade versions: that'll teach me never to make a harmless sweeping generalization ever again! :-/

Re trackball sensitivity: I bet that's just a service mode setting somewhere.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
I have gotten a wand on level 6, but my game froze, so god knows whether that was supposed to happen. 

Somebody beat my brother's run?  Ouch.  Really??  "305" or "300"?  Is that minutes?  If somebody got 3:05 on this game,  I'll be damn impressed.  How is that possible? 

I'm having downloading problems, again, so if anyone who watched his video can comment, I'd be most appreciative.
Jungle Rat
Don't feel bad Enhasa; I agree with your generalization in more cases than I disagree with it. Smiley

If somebody got 3:05 on this game,  I'll be damn impressed.  How is that possible?

The 3:05 time actually could be even faster. Mengsk wastes some time because he went for high score rather than pure speed. I'm positive that I could finish in under 3 minutes if I decided to play this for pure speed.

Your brother was very fast, but he could have been much faster in the Aerial Race and the Ultimate Race. There are also some little areas elsewhere that could be improved.