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New PB, 34:17: https://www.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/75962472
First try on the Cool Fusion and Colony Ship grenade climbs as well as the Blaspheme Quarantine skip saved a ton of time. After the Colony Ship climb went well I was so relieved I got sloppy and made some mistakes later, like messing up the Neither High Nor Low jump. But mostly I think it was a good run.
I think my goal for this category before I move on is sub-30min.
Edit history:
TotallyGatsby: 2016-07-07 09:23:46 pm
Registered just to post in this thread. Been watching SGDQ, been considering running Marathon 2 since AGDQ, but I've never seriously run a game before. (Watching GDQ encouraged me to dip my toes in with a FFVI attempt that took ~15 hours, and while fun, that game is way too long.)

In most of the rest of the internet world, I've used the alias Pfhreak, as a reference to the Pfhor. I LOVE the Marathon series, and thought it might be a good game to start with, since the run is pretty quick once you get it under your fingers.

Edit: Are people comfortable using Aleph One for this?
New PB in Marathon 1 Kindergarten, 32:51: https://www.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/77762860
This run brought my sum of best under 30 minutes which makes me more positive that a 29 is possible.

Quote from TotallyGatsby:
Edit: Are people comfortable using Aleph One for this?

I think Aleph One should be fine for Marathon 2 and Infinity since it's just a port of the same engine. For M1 I'm pretty sure there are notable differences between M1A1 and the original game, but I haven't experimented with M1A1 enough to figure out exactly what they are.
Sup people, I created a thread on the speedrun subreddit and aperturegrillz told me about here. So, let me be polite and introduce myself.

I'm fussomoro... that's my name. While I was not exactly a speedrunner back in the day, I believe it was before the nomenclature was even invented. I took part of Marathon's official Vidmaster Challenge in 1996. And while the rules were stricter back then, the basis of what a speedrunning would eventually become was already part of the deal.

A little history for the younglings: What was the Vidmaster Challenge? Before Bungie became a money munching machine of self-perpetuating sequels, they created my favorite game of all time: Marathon - and the sequels, but I think of them as just one game. A couple of years after the release of the game, they compiled a challenge for the players of the game: Complete the game as fast as you can, and as cool as you can. So, while the challenges were not just about speed, they were also to show your skill in the game, I was always better in the speed department. Long story short, I got myself some very good times in some maps and a couple of mentions on the strategy page of the site.

20 years of life later, I stumbled on the Summer Games Done Quick stream. And thought to myself: "That looks A LOT like what we used to do, but polished to absolute perfection". I want in! And here I am!

What I already have?
Not much, my old PowerPC is in my dad's garage but it may need some love to work (and money). Also, I have no idea how to capture videos from an old Mac. So, I did what most here have done. I grabbed the M1A1 version of the game (along with the other two games) and tried to replicate some tricks from the vidmaster challenges. Some just don't work, the Flamethrower doesn't have the same properties and so on, but in time I could get those rusty skills back. So, I played the games casually and I remembered how much I like them.

What I want?
I'll try to speedrun all three games. But I still have some questions. In my mind, Marathon 2 and Infinity should be cooler runs, they have less grindy levels and the plataforming actually looks kind of impressive for a first person game, specially in Infinity. But for now, I'll be running the first one on M1A1. If the Aleph One emulation is not accepted, I'll try to get the old Mac working, but will probably go for Marathon 2 first.

Questions
Where can I upload the run? How do I prove that I didn't cheat or anything like that? Also, can I steal other people's routes for my first runs and there is some kind of taboo in that regards?

Many other questions have been answered by the SDA wiki page. But I'll appreciate any insight or tip any of you could give me.

Thanks.
Edit history:
tbcr: 2016-07-15 12:31:02 am
tbcr: 2016-07-14 08:21:15 pm
Quote from aperturegrillz:
Quote from TotallyGatsby:
Edit: Are people comfortable using Aleph One for this?

I think Aleph One should be fine for Marathon 2 and Infinity since it's just a port of the same engine. For M1 I'm pretty sure there are notable differences between M1A1 and the original game, but I haven't experimented with M1A1 enough to figure out exactly what they are.


AFAIK, the latest builds of Aleph One allow using the original game files. The game also became freeware as of late, so AFAIK, the original game files are used in the download for M1 on the lhowon site. Now actual engine wise, dunno if that does change anything or not at this point, since it would use the original game's physics.

EDIT: I know the main difference level wise is on "Colony Ship for Sale, Cheap" where I believe on M1A1 it would automatically set the levels for the platforms.

Edit 2 EB: So I noticed that on "SLN,TLC", You can complete the level by only having to close the door on the path to the right of spawn.

Film for showing:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzoeiNb-LNTUQm1KNVBJZ0VjUWs/view?usp=sharing
Yesterday I did a playthrough of M1 on Total Carnage for the first time. I don't think I've ever completed the game on TC before, so it took me kind of a while - 5 hours and 13 minutes to be precise. Lots of saving and deaths. You can watch the VOD here if you're so inclined: https://secure.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/78254892

Quote from tbcr:
Edit 2 EB: So I noticed that on "SLN,TLC", You can complete the level by only having to close the door on the path to the right of spawn.

Nice! Just checked myself to confirm. That should be a good little time-save.
So i'm currently in the process of getting at least one complete run done.

With "Defend THIS!", in the big firefight room, what is the optimal place to lob a grenade at the switch?

Also, although not as safe, skipping the ammo cache in the above level can get as low as 1:38 at the current moment. You will however have to wait until Cool Fusion to recharge (and it is possible, trust me on that)

The "official" meta-server for Aleph-One also has speedrun stats for Individual Levels, seen here --->https://stats.lhowon.org/speed/marathon
I always try to fire a grenade at the switch as soon as I get into the room -- a grenade travels faster than you can run, so assuming you hit it first try, the earlier the better.

By the way, tbcr, I noticed on Bigger Guns you grenade the switch in the final room. I don't think this will save any time, since all you care about is activating the switch as fast as possible so that the elevator will start going up sooner. If you grenade the switch instead of walking up to it and flipping it, you'll just be standing on the elevator a little bit longer waiting for it to rise.
Edit history:
tbcr: 2016-07-21 12:33:23 am
tbcr: 2016-07-21 12:00:18 am
tbcr: 2016-07-20 11:53:04 pm
tbcr: 2016-07-19 11:24:47 pm
Quote from aperturegrillz:
By the way, tbcr, I noticed on Bigger Guns you grenade the switch in the final room. I don't think this will save any time, since all you care about is activating the switch as fast as possible so that the elevator will start going up sooner. If you grenade the switch instead of walking up to it and flipping it, you'll just be standing on the elevator a little bit longer waiting for it to rise.


Yeah, i kinda figured that out while i was practicing in my school cafeteria

For some reason in "NBM", if you accidentally punch and activate the switch(at the same time) to open the exit terminal, it will stay closed

EDIT II: For some strange reason, on Blaspheme Quarentine now, the exit are only opens sometimes even with doing the route correctly, is there a specific thing you have to do on that ledge other than view the polygon?

EDIT III BRUT : So on Never Burn Money, on the starting "door" you can make the second part open along side the first one. Can someone with the 68k/PPC marathon test that to see if it works as well
Quote from tbcr:
For some reason in "NBM", if you accidentally punch and activate the switch(at the same time) to open the exit terminal, it will stay closed

Yeah, that's because you're activating and immediately deactivating the switch, which stops its action. Lots of other switches work this way. In Defend THIS!, if you hit the switch in the big room with two grenades on accident, it'll stop the platform lowering.

Quote from tbcr:
EDIT II: For some strange reason, on Blaspheme Quarentine now, the exit are only opens sometimes even with doing the route correctly, is there a specific thing you have to do on that ledge other than view the polygon?

There are two triggers you're hitting, one to open the door and the other to fulfill the level requirements. You're probably triggering the polygon to open the door twice, which will re-close the door. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think it will trigger again if you venture too far onto another polygon and then cross the trigger polygon again. If you look at the map, the door trigger poly is the small rectangular one at the end of the upper hallway: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/File:09_blaspheme_quarantine.png

Quote from tbcr:
EDIT III BRUT : So on Never Burn Money, on the starting "door" you can make the second part open along side the first one. Can someone with the 68k/PPC marathon test that to see if it works as well

Yup, works on PPC as well. Nice find.
Edit history:
tbcr: 2016-07-30 12:34:30 am
tbcr: 2016-07-30 12:32:37 am
Quote from aperturegrillz:
Quote from tbcr:
EDIT II: For some strange reason, on Blaspheme Quarentine now, the exit are only opens sometimes even with doing the route correctly, is there a specific thing you have to do on that ledge other than view the polygon?

There are two triggers you're hitting, one to open the door and the other to fulfill the level requirements. You're probably triggering the polygon to open the door twice, which will re-close the door. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think it will trigger again if you venture too far onto another polygon and then cross the trigger polygon again. If you look at the map, the door trigger poly is the small rectangular one at the end of the upper hallway: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/File:09_blaspheme_quarantine.png


I have since corrected my mistake on that.

So i posted this on Fennecey's video, but if you skip the ammo cache in Defend THIS!, and have GODLIKE movements that you make it on to the first lift (not the big room one, the long hallway one) before the start of the 3rd cycle (i believe the lift starts in the down position)

YT Example:


If you get the grenaded switch in one try in the big firefight room, you might be able to do possibly a 20-25 sec save using the above method
New M1 Kindergarten PB, 31:20: https://secure.twitch.tv/aperturegrillz/v/80895352
Made pretty much every major skip first try. Only really lost time on The Rose and Try Again. This also brought my sum of best down to 28:33.
So with Euphoria, I noticed alot of people go counter clockwise on the right side of the map. I noticed that you can actually strafe to the opposite ledge then shoot to the top of the right side of the map to view the last polygon. Going by Aperture's last splits, you can possibly get sub 55sec on Euphoria, 5 sec faster. I have an example below(i get hung up a bit on it), but keep in mind, i'm using the A1 version, but that should not effect the time for the most part.



Quote from tbcr:
So with Euphoria, I noticed alot of people go counter clockwise on the right side of the map. I noticed that you can actually strafe to the opposite ledge then shoot to the top of the right side of the map to view the last polygon. Going by Aperture's last splits, you can possibly get sub 55sec on Euphoria, 5 sec faster. I have an example below(i get hung up a bit on it), but keep in mind, i'm using the A1 version, but that should not effect the time for the most part.


That does seem to save some time, but I'll do you one better: instead of running around that way and hovering, you can just run to the second overlook into the lower rooms and then turn around and go back. I think this should be a little bit faster still. So the route would look like this:
So I finally got my G5 into my house and i'm currently trying to learn the route (again). what is the optimal key layout? Is there any hope for mouse look?


So i managed to get the WR spot for the A1 version of Marathon.

In addition, while fiddling around today, I think i found a optimal route for Try Again. i'm averaging around 2min-2:15
Nice job! Considering you still lost a lot of time on some splits means this can definitely come down more, too.

I haven't done any attempts for a couple weeks since I've been extremely busy, I got appendicitis and then started a new job right after recovering from the surgery. I'm gonna keep going for sub-30 on the Mac version... I really would like to be able to use mouselook, but so far I haven't been able to make it work.

As far as your Try Again route proposal, it looks similar to what I was imagining. I redrew it using my own screenshot - is this what you have in mind? I circled in teal every enemy it looks like you're skipping, of which there are 7, which works because the maximum left alive is 8.
Quote from aperturegrillz:
As far as your Try Again route proposal, it looks similar to what I was imagining. I redrew it using my own screenshot - is this what you have in mind? I circled in teal every enemy it looks like you're skipping, of which there are 7, which works because the maximum left alive is 8.


Somewhat the same route. A key factor here is AR flying over the lava pits at the start, which will save about estimate of 6 seconds total in the route, combined with the min saved from leaving the 7 on the left end of the map. I'll time both routes for Try Again when i get the chance.

I know this chat might be only about the first game, but why does the 360 versions of M2 have M1 physics? In addition, i know on the KB it says you need 2 hits from the grenade launcher to make it to the end of 6000 feet under, you can actually do it in one hit if you hug the wall.
I don't think it has M1 physics, it has something else entirely. I've never played it myself but it looks like you run faster and get more knockback from explosions as well as other differences.
Quote from aperturegrillz:
I don't think it has M1 physics, it has something else entirely. I've never played it myself but it looks like you run faster and get more knockback from explosions as well as other differences.

the main reason I asked was because on the 360 version, you can actually AR fly and Grenade jump running forward.
Also, I should point out that in the southeast room of Try Again, Bungie forgot to mark two lava polygons as giving damage. If you have the health, you could probably save a couple seconds by running over the large "fake" lava polygon and grenade jumping to the walkway in front of the teleporter.
Quote from aperturegrillz:
Also, I should point out that in the southeast room of Try Again, Bungie forgot to mark two lava polygons as giving damage. If you have the health, you could probably save a couple seconds by running over the large "fake" lava polygon and grenade jumping to the walkway in front of the teleporter.


I can't believe that I did not notice that. I'll take a gander when I go back to M1 practice.
Wow thing's are happening in here finally.

Marathon for a GDQ in the future.  Make it happen.  Also good luck on WR for Durandal.  I wouldn't worry about my time though since the 360 version is faster and should be considered a separate category.  A couple of skips that weren't in my run include where you AR fly out of the water's peak elevation next to the exit room on Bob's Big Date and the extremely hard rocket launcher end-level skip on Kill Your Television that only BlueGlass can do.  If you have any questions about Durandal, please ask!
Quote from Nobility:
Wow thing's are happening in here finally.

Marathon for a GDQ in the future.  Make it happen.  Also good luck on WR for Durandal.  I wouldn't worry about my time though since the 360 version is faster and should be considered a separate category.  A couple of skips that weren't in my run include where you AR fly out of the water's peak elevation next to the exit room on Bob's Big Date and the extremely hard rocket launcher end-level skip on Kill Your Television that only BlueGlass can do.  If you have any questions about Durandal, please ask!


I'm really curious on that rocket launcher skip on KYT, i'm assuming it's a rocket jump from one end of the walkway en route to the final switch. Is there a video or a film file?

Also, taking into consideration the Hardlock problem with the A1 version, I'm currently doing my intentional death's on Ex Cathedra and God Will Sort the Dead. I feel that GWStD takes too long and sets up a situation where the simulacrums can repeatedly kill you. My Own Private Thermopylae might be a bit faster and safer to do the intentional death, considering you can get the rocket launcher.

Also, according to the KB, you can perform a Grenade Jump from the water on MOPT to the first required switch. I have not been able to perform this. I was wondering if there was a specific area that makes it easier to perform.

Moving on, in Infinity, on OTTST, the big grenade jump on the level, especially if you do the A1 version with the mouse, can have a possibility of failure. However, I had stumbled on a OOB that takes you up to the final switch. I have not been able to replicate it, but apparently there is a edge to the right of the post (facing it) that you can OOB out of

BTW. I have submitted the entire trilogy for AGDQ, M2 being the one that I am the least confident atm, since PB for me is 45:40 and it looks like sub 40 might be the min. That AR Fly on What about Bob is really dangerous atm for a marathon setting.
Edit history:
Nobility: 2016-09-10 01:44:04 pm
Nobility: 2016-09-10 01:42:53 pm
Red dot is where you can rocket jump up.  The yellow line is the route you used.

http://imgur.com/a/x1hMx Embedding isnt working for some reason.

You might also be able to AR fly or use the flamethrower but I've no idea because I don't run the Aleph One version!