Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light

2011-03-26 10:28:22 pm

New record time NOT by me.

Khaled 13 came back and took back Temple of Light from me and now has a time of 2:41.657
My route is optimized, so there must be a skip I dont know about...

Greenalink

2011-04-16 09:04:01 am

DS Dictator

brassmaster

2011-05-03 04:46:07 pm

So, I'm finally pitching in money for a DVR, and am planning on making a submit-able run (full game SS) of this game. Few questions on that though:

Should a table of ILs be submitted before a full game SS?

In terms of ILs, would each need to be SS, or could/should the autosaves be used? There are several autosaves that can be used to save a second or two, most for easier optimization, but some hurt your time (these would obviously be skipped no matter what).

If autosaves are usable, then would an edited video of the entire level be needed or each segment as a different video?

For submitted ILs, since we cannot prove fractions of a second (unless we show the leaderboard, run the level, then go back, provided we beat our time), would whole seconds from the end of each level be used?

Also, if anybody wants to join me in doing SS Full game attempts (using real time from hitting A/Enter/X to load ToL til the last hit on XS (including loading times)), here is my current best times using the LapTool and BKST timer:

ToL - 3:38
TG - 7:20
ST - 9:49
Sum - 10:09
FG - 11:46
TS - 15:55
FP - 18:29
JoD - 20:09
TB - 23:05
FD - 26:43
BotB - 27:13
SP - 28:41
MW - 29:57
XS - 35:22

For timing, should I pause for loading screens? I'm not sure if those count or not (since it may vary, especially system to system).

I would post my IL times in the SS, but I can go to the next level before those times are shown, so it saves a second to skip them. If I do submit a full game SS, it'll be at least under 35 minutes, or 34 (I only just started timing it, so I'm not sure how low I can go yet), and will also be minimal deaths, if not deathless (which I'm obviously shooting for). My current time has about 4-5 deaths total.

So, I'm finally pitching in money for a DVR, and am planning on making a submit-able run (full game SS) of this game.  Few questions on that though:

Should a table of ILs be submitted before a full game SS?

In terms of ILs, would each need to be SS, or could/should the autosaves be used? There are several autosaves that can be used to save a second or two, most for easier optimization, but some hurt your time (these would obviously be skipped no matter what).

If autosaves are usable, then would an edited video of the entire level be needed or each segment as a different video?

For submitted ILs, since we cannot prove fractions of a second (unless we show the leaderboard, run the level, then go back, provided we beat our time), would whole seconds from the end of each level be used?

Also, if anybody wants to join me in doing SS Full game attempts (using real time from hitting A/Enter/X to load ToL til the last hit on XS (including loading times)), here is my current best times using the LapTool and BKST timer:

ToL - 3:38
TG - 7:20
ST - 9:49
Sum - 10:09
FG - 11:46
TS - 15:55
FP - 18:29
JoD - 20:09
TB - 23:05
FD - 26:43
BotB - 27:13
SP - 28:41
MW - 29:57
XS - 35:22

For timing, should I pause for loading screens?  I'm not sure if those count or not (since it may vary, especially system to system).

I would post my IL times in the SS, but I can go to the next level before those times are shown, so it saves a second to skip them.  If I do submit a full game SS, it'll be at least under 35 minutes, or 34 (I only just started timing it, so I'm not sure how low I can go yet), and will also be minimal deaths, if not deathless (which I'm obviously shooting for). My current time has about 4-5 deaths total.

Greenalink

2011-05-03 05:12:38 pm

DS Dictator

Quote:

Should a table of ILs be submitted before a full game SS?

It doesn't matter, either way. I think an SS run may be faster to produce than a full IL table. But the problem with the IL table rule is that all of the levels has to be completed first before it can be submitted.

If this strict rule includes DLC challenge stages, then we got a problem because the Xbox 360 version cannot get the 2nd challenge map pack due to some technical issues posted on Twitter (developers, developers, developers, *sigh*).

Quote:

In terms of ILs, would each need to be SS, or could/should the autosaves be used? There are several autosaves that can be used to save a second or two, most for easier optimization, but some hurt your time (these would obviously be skipped no matter what).

If autosaves are usable, then would an edited video of the entire level be needed or each segment as a different video?

For submitted ILs, since we cannot prove fractions of a second (unless we show the leaderboard, run the level, then go back, provided we beat our time), would whole seconds from the end of each level be used?

I personally think the IL runs should be SS because if one runner had the HDD and a memory unit to back up saves, then one runner could do a Segmented run ala Halo Done Segmented. The timer is an annoying issue as well because if we did the 'full game' segmented run first, we will never get fully detailed times on the IL attempts later because the 'single segment style' ILs will be impossible to beat the Segmented Runs unless there is a new trick discovered and therefore the leaderboard doesn't update showing the slower IL time.

[quote]Should a table of ILs be submitted before a full game SS?[/quote]

It doesn't matter, either way. I think an SS run may be faster to produce than a full IL table. But the problem with the IL table rule is that all of the levels has to be completed first before it can be submitted.

If this strict rule includes DLC challenge stages, then we got a problem because the Xbox 360 version cannot get the 2nd challenge map pack due to some technical issues posted on Twitter (developers, developers, developers, *sigh*).

[quote]In terms of ILs, would each need to be SS, or could/should the autosaves be used? There are several autosaves that can be used to save a second or two, most for easier optimization, but some hurt your time (these would obviously be skipped no matter what).

If autosaves are usable, then would an edited video of the entire level be needed or each segment as a different video?

For submitted ILs, since we cannot prove fractions of a second (unless we show the leaderboard, run the level, then go back, provided we beat our time), would whole seconds from the end of each level be used?[/quote]

I personally think the IL runs should be SS because if one runner had the HDD and a memory unit to back up saves, then one runner could do a Segmented run ala Halo Done Segmented. The timer is an annoying issue as well because if we did the 'full game' segmented run first, we will never get fully detailed times on the IL attempts later because the 'single segment style' ILs will be impossible to beat the Segmented Runs unless there is a new trick discovered and therefore the leaderboard doesn't update showing the slower IL time.

brassmaster

Edit history:

brassmaster: 2011-05-03 05:42:24 pm

2011-05-03 05:40:37 pm

I dont think DLCs are included in the initial IL table runs, but are not excluded in the end. Perhaps each DLC pack will need all levels within the individual packs before submission.

I'm game for IL SS runs, but these will not compare to the current records (or at least I can't come close to my records when I try SS (of course Summoning and Belly of the Beast are exceptions)). I'm not familiar with Halo Done Segmented, so I'm not sure what you mean. But I was thinking about doing something like what UCPro started doing with The Conduit:

Also, I think a "full game segmented run" equals IL for this game. I'm thinking this game will end up like Goldeneye:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/GoldenEye.html

Greenalink

2011-05-04 04:17:59 am

DS Dictator

Quote:

I'm not familiar with Halo Done Segmented, so I'm not sure what you mean.

It was the new Halo Legendary run that was recently posted on SDA, done in 120+ segments

Take note on the music audio that resets time to time. The run itself was done by 2 people but due to the nature of the game (where having the Sniper Rifle from the previous level doesn't bring it over to the next level like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark) they could have been segmented ILs.... each level was done by one person, I think.

There's also a NG regular to consider as well where you start off with no extras, as if you started a new game.

brassmaster

2011-05-04 04:26:44 am

i didnt think about a new game run, so that's a possibility too.

So the Halo run was done via checkpoints like what I was talking about in the Conduit and this game. So what was the problem doing that here? Maybe have both segmented and SS levels?

Greenalink

2011-05-04 12:27:32 pm

DS Dictator

If the game was more like Megaman 9 and 10, the whole timing nonsense would be more manageable.

Quote:

Maybe have both segmented and SS levels?

I've never seen an IL run that is done segmented (3 segments on level 1 for instance) posted on here.

If the run is segmented then it's basically a full game run. I think to make timing much easier I would perfer to ignore the milliseconds.... but that would be less competition on the IL side if one runner wants to improve it like the 2-3 very short boss battle stages. I'll need to look up on the Coduit forum and see what they said about the checkpoints, etc.

Hmmm maybe if the IL runs uses the full timer while the full game run doesn't, how does that sound?

brassmaster

Edit history:

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 01:23:15 pm

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 01:03:25 pm

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 12:56:23 pm

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 12:42:04 pm

2011-05-04 12:39:43 pm

Perhaps we need to get an SDA admin's say.

The Conduit was never fully decided on, so the forum on it wont tell you much.

Since we cannot prove the milliseconds, I'd say each level will go off of the lowest second, and I guess whoever submits the first 6 second Summoning and first 15 second Belly of the Beast will be named on the site. thoughts?

Segmenting each level aids in getting a faster time, but perhaps for SDA we'll just do individual level SS.

Maybe for a full game SS, individual level times should be used and the extra second to show the time should be done. The reason I think against not is because of loading times between versions... unless each level is manually timed only when Lara is controlled.

Hard to say, and that's why I think we need an SDA admin in her to give the final say

mikwuyma

2011-05-04 01:44:48 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

brassmaster, it sounds like you are making this way too complicated. Unless if the in-game timer is inconsistent, then we just use that for timing.

You can't save and load in the middle of stages for ILs.

brassmaster

Edit history:

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 02:03:27 pm

brassmaster: 2011-05-04 01:59:38 pm

2011-05-04 01:56:08 pm

So I guess each individual level will be SS, and the in game timer will be used, same for full game SS. would/could a segmented run similar to the Halo Done Segmented be submit-able? Sorry for making it so complicated. I didn't mean for that. So I guess here are my current run plans:

IL Table
Full Game SS
LCGoL Done Segmented

mikwuyma

2011-05-04 02:02:40 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Yeah, a full game run can be segmented.

brassmaster

2011-05-09 03:08:47 pm

In the middle of doing Full Game SS attempts (I'm actually resetting after each death, so this will take a while to get deathless) I've started working on an IL table. Here's what I have so far:

Summoning - 0:06
Belly of the Beast - 0:15
Forgotten Gate - 1:22
Stronghold Passage - 1:08
Jaws of Death - 1:23
Twisting Bridge - 1:21

Let me know if you think I should go for lower on any.

Greenalink

2011-05-10 04:45:13 pm

DS Dictator

On Forgotten Gate, it's possible to do a damage boost over the 'wall' to skip the gate by jumping from the pole. I'll give it a try myself and see if this method is more consistent than the original one.

Oh and also the All clear times on the PS3 version are just roughly over 40 minutes!

brassmaster

2011-05-10 08:36:36 pm

From the looks of it, it's easier the way you found. PS3 guys must not be running this game much.

Greenalink

2011-05-11 05:47:24 am

DS Dictator

Actually, I found a very consistent way of doing it now.

From the hidden platform, stand on the top leftish part and jump left. Partway through the fall use a bomb to damage boost, and Lara should go OoB. I managed to do this 5 times in a row and it's very consistent.

Attachment:

rough drawing of sequence break.bmp

brassmaster

2011-05-11 08:33:36 am

Hmm I guess I'll need to give it a try then.

brassmaster

Edit history:

brassmaster: 2011-07-10 07:33:03 pm

2011-06-14 06:40:02 pm

So, I'm just about done with an IL table, but i have a problem. I was still getting used to the DVR and didn't realize that it automatically put my first few videos in 4:3 ratio, but when I tried a different set up, i got it in 16:9. should I go back and get them all in 16:9 or keep what I have? Here are my current times, if you think any should be improved, let me know and I'll go for it.

Temple of Light - 3:13
Temple Grounds - 2:56
Spider Tomb - 1:52
Summoning - 6 seconds (4:3, cannot be improved)
Forgotten Gate - 1:22 (4:3, I think I want to go for a 1:20 on this)
Toxic Swamp - 3:52
Flooded Passage - 2:10
Jaws of Death - 1:23 (4:3)
Twisting Bridge - 1:21 (4:3)
Fiery Depths - 2:20 (cant get one of the jumps on the circle platforms consistently enough
Belly of the Beast - 15 seconds (4:3, cannot be improved)
Stronghold Passage - 1:08 (4:3, better fire trap luck would give 1:07 or 6)
Mirror's Wake - 47 seconds (I think you should submit your time Greenalink, I spent hours trying to get that route in a SS level and can't do it)
Xolotl's Stronghold - 4:40 (missed one light spear at the end, but i can't get lower then this)

So, I'm just about done with an IL table, but i have a problem. I was still getting used to the DVR and didn't realize that it automatically put my first few videos in 4:3 ratio, but when I tried a different set up, i got it in 16:9.  should I go back and get them all in 16:9 or keep what I have?  Here are my current times, if you think any should be improved, let me know and I'll go for it.

Temple of Light - 3:13
Temple Grounds - 2:56
Spider Tomb - 1:52
Summoning - 6 seconds (4:3, cannot be improved)
Forgotten Gate - 1:22 (4:3, I think I want to go for a 1:20 on this)
Toxic Swamp - 3:52
Flooded Passage - 2:10
Jaws of Death - 1:23 (4:3)
Twisting Bridge - 1:21 (4:3)
Fiery Depths - 2:20 (cant get one of the jumps on the circle platforms consistently enough
Belly of the Beast - 15 seconds (4:3, cannot be improved)
Stronghold Passage - 1:08 (4:3, better fire trap luck would give 1:07 or 6)
Mirror's Wake - 47 seconds (I think you should submit your time Greenalink, I spent hours trying to get that route in a SS level and can't do it)
Xolotl's Stronghold - 4:40 (missed one light spear at the end, but i can't get lower then this)

Greenalink

2011-06-21 05:57:20 pm

DS Dictator

Quote:

I was still getting used to the DVR and didn't realize that it automatically put my first few videos in 4:3 ratio, but when I tried a different set up, i got it in 16:9. should I go back and get them all in 16:9 or keep what I have? Here are my current times, if you think any should be improved, let me know and I'll go for it.

From what I know Yoshifan is nearly finishing his Super Mario Galaxy any% segmented run, his early segments were 4:3 (both console settings and recordings) and the more recent ones were 16:9 (again same for both settings)..

Are you saying that your console was set to 16:9 and it did a 4:3 recording so the image looked a bit squished?

I'll have a look at my DVD recorder hard disk drive and see the times I've got for Forgotten Gate, Twisting Bridge and Stronghold passage.

brassmaster

2011-06-22 08:36:44 pm

I have nothing against collaborating and submitting our best times each. Especially since I cant get Mirror's wake without segmenting.

The console was set to 4:3. it was the setup I used (component input to the TV and the audio and Yellow video into the DVR) and my xbox automatically set it up with those cords, so I manually went in and changed it to widescreen. If they're going to let Yoshifan do that, then I guess this will be fine, especially for an IL table i'd think.

Looking back at my forgotten gate time, it's rather sloppy towards the end, so I'm going to improve that (unless you've got a good time).

Greenalink

2011-06-24 03:53:46 pm

DS Dictator

I've got these times on my Hard Disk Drive DVD recorder:
IL (no checkpoint reloads)
Forgotten Gate: 1:19
Mirror's Wake: 0:45 (could cut it down to 43 because there was a few wasted shots and a pause at one point)
Twisting Bridge: 1:14

flamelurker

2011-06-27 02:22:25 pm

I recently started playing this game again, so far I think Mirror's Wake in 41 seconds is the only level I've done faster than you guys.

I used the same route as in llcooldave's video for most of the level, but if you throw the first spear directly under the little wall then you can jump up inside it and just roll straight to the side, instead of having to roll around it (sorry if that doesn't make sense, don't have anything to record it with), and then I used the bomb jump at the end which he didnt do in his video.

Also, I've read that there is a way to skip the second gate on toxic swamp, does anyone have a video showing this, I've looked for a while and can't see how its done.

brassmaster

2011-06-27 03:30:32 pm

I would like to see Mirror's Wake in 41 seconds. I got 43 with Greenalink's route, but that used 2 checkpoints, and I cannot repeat it with a decent time.

There is a way to skip the 2nd gate as well as the bridge (found by Greenalink) in Toxic Swamp. I ran this game during JRDQ and used the 2nd gate skip. Check the topic about that and watch my run for that route. Otherwise, when I finish redoing a few levels and put them on my computer, I'll load them to YouTube to replace my "Speed Route" videos.

Greenalink: I think those times are good enough for submitting. I dont think I can match/beat them at the moment.

flamelurker

2011-06-27 05:00:05 pm

Thanks for letting me know about that run, just watched it all and you used exactly the same strategy I used on Mirror's Wake to get 41 seconds, I'm pretty sure that 40 isn't possible with that route, I had a really good run. And thanks for the 2nd gate skip, I should be able to get close to the top of the overall PS3 leaderboard now.

brassmaster

Edit history:

brassmaster: 2011-07-10 11:28:55 pm

brassmaster: 2011-07-10 10:08:07 pm

2011-07-10 07:44:02 pm

I finally got around to doing the last level. I ended up missing a spear and a few shotgun shots in my best run of 4:40, but i still think it's a good enough time. I'm currently transferring the videos to my computer and will upload them to youtube shortly and will update this post with the playlist of each level's run. As always, let me know if you think any should be improved before submitting.

EDIT: Having some issues with my 16:9 videos... stupid DVR records 16:9 images as 4:3, so i need to stretch these somehow... my Youtube channel is "brasstrekker" if you want to take a look at the few that i have up currently.

EDIT 2: got them stretched back out, but was a bit frustrating. Anyway, here's the playlist. my times are listed above in this thread and on the videos. total time is 27:25

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB6FC69911475B60D