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Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
While we're on sector 4, I'm guessing you also spotted that you can jump the rocket at 7:02 instead of ducking, and that you can take the shredder over the square block instead of under it at 7:11. Wink

Going over doesn't change much though, all the other optimizations have been taken care of.

Quote:
And in case you don't already know this, I just found that if you run into one of the turrets and fire while clipping with it, the explosion will blow you forwards, letting you land not on the platform you're standing on but on the ledge you jumped to it from (with the teleporter on it), which I figure is just as good?

Yes, I found this too while playing around there. I'll need to practice it with savestates before trying to run that Sector, it's literally a 2-frame window.

Quote:
At the start of the same level, I'm pretty sure that just rocketing the explosive crate is about half a second faster than your fancy jump-and-tech method. But I'm stupid, so check. Wink

There's no time to switch to the Rocket launcher though - you always start a Sector with the Shotgun. It is indeed faster, I don't know why I didn't do it last time - you have to stand back from the explosions though, so it might not save that many frames. Faster than jump-teching though. Smiley

Quote:
Edit: Aha, a new improvement. Sector 2, after getting the jump upgrade. I was able to save about a second by going back to the commander, letting him kill me, and taking the lift down from the respawn point, instead of just going to teleporter.

I've already tried this many times, but it doesn't save time compared to doing the left route optimally - the time taken is identical unless you have super-awesome luck, which I don't want to rely on that far into the Sector. Sad

Edit: Also, having completed Sector 5, now is a good time to stop and review the route and tricks for the following segments. It's going to get even more brutal after all. I dread Sector 7...
Quote from Ultimortal:
Quote:
Edit: Aha, a new improvement. Sector 2, after getting the jump upgrade. I was able to save about a second by going back to the commander, letting him kill me, and taking the lift down from the respawn point, instead of just going to teleporter.

I've already tried this many times, but it doesn't save time compared to doing the left route optimally - the time taken is identical unless you have super-awesome luck, which I don't want to rely on that far into the Sector. Sad


Man we're stupid. There's a much better way to use the respawn point - to warp back after using the terminal to the right. Saves 2 seconds even when done clumsily, might save as much as 3 seconds with luck.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-23 04:02:47 am
Sigh, you're right... this means I have to redo Sectors 2-5 and reproduce my new near-perfect times... Cry I guess I we should look for more things like this before I redo anything.

In Sector 3, above the checkpoint, I can use the boxes as stepping stones so I don't have to climb the ledge in the ventilation shaft above.

I lose 1/30th of a second every time I jump and land on the ground (due to the collision coding), so I try to minimize jumps. I use the Resonance detonator on crates that lie in the way to avoid having to jump over them. This usually doesn't matter if I end on a "low" second though.
Well, at least it gives you an excuse to optimise your nano collection path while you're at it.

Edit: There are a couple of nano pickups on Sector 4 that you spend 2-3 seconds each to get. One is an 8 nano, one is a 16 nano. You should probably list all the nano you go out of your way to get in the game and the time cost of each bit, figure out how much nano you can get from killing enemies as you pass them, and then axe all the most time-consuming nano pickups from your route. I'm betting, though, that one of the ones in Sector 4 will get scrapped.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-23 05:08:04 am
Yes, I've already made sure all the Nano I get is useful, for example I skip the ones at 6:58 and 7:36. I need all the ones in Sectors 1-3 in order to beat Krotera quickly, though. I need to hit level 18 at the bottom of Sector 5, it's not worth it rebooting to get rid of my Health level 2 immediately after getting the Jump upgrade - all the Nano lies in my path. There don't seem to be any problems with Nano after that, either.

I'm skipping some slight detour Nano in Sector 6 as well.

And now I can rerecord with better sound quality, the Krotera fight got pretty distorted.

I got the idea of manipulating a Turret to pop up between me and Krotera so I could kick it, perhaps saving a second, but they're coded not to appear too close to Iji so it doesn't seem possible. Defeating him by having him fire powerful weapons while you stand next to him is not as fast as Buster gun, either - I tried firing 16 shots after which he immediately fired an MPFB dealing the final 9 damage to himself, but I still got 8 seconds.
There's another useful death warp you can use on the Komato ship in Sector 7.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-23 06:53:58 am
Yes, the only problem are the health pickups littering the place - I'll be at 4 HP when I get to the terminal at 7:14. So I have to get hit by my MPFB, then either a shocksplinter or standing inside the closest Trooper after activating the terminal. It will still save a little time though, even when I have to go out of my way to activate the checkpoint.

Edit: I redid everything, I'll see how many more tricks I can squeeze out of Sector 6 and improve that time. Surprisingly, while it has many difficult and luck-based parts all the way to the end, it wasn't harder than Sector 5. I'll have to make up for the missed Nano later though.

The run so far:
Improved Sector 1 from 1:23 to 1:22
Improved Sector 2 from 2:25 to 2:21 (new)
Improved Sector 3 from 1:54 to 1:52
Krotera is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector 4 from 2:20 to 2:10
Improved Sector 5 from 2:47 to 2:45
Asha is the same: 0:03
Improved Sector 6 from 2:01 to 1:56 (new)
5 seconds of improvement on Sector 6? How'd you pull that off?
I think it's a combination of:
Using the rockets at the first barrel, although this means I lose some time kicking the door below, it still saves time.
I skip getting Assimilate 2 (this will be made up for in Sector 7 though).
Faster run through the bottom tunnel after activating the checkpoint.
After activating the terminal guarded by two turrets, I immediately shoot the right turret from the left, throwing me to the right (as said before).
After reappearing at the checkpoint, I skip the Nano at the bottom of the empty lift shaft.
I only open the left door at the Tasen-Komato part separated by two shield doors.
I ended on a high second as opposed to a low one in the previous run.
More precise playing overall.

I haven't managed to beat 1:56 yet...
I've been thinking about nano.

I've finally caught up with your thinking here and get that there are basically two chokepoints to worry about: levelling up attack for Krotera (which currently happens well before the fight itself), and hitting level 18 in time for the nuke.

The first chokepoint has no slack. It could be given slack by delaying levelling up attack until the air vent with the Komato in, which would cost around 3 seconds and mean you wouldn't have to worry about getting nano for the first chokepoint at all and could go for the most efficient nano in all of sectors 1-5 instead of having to spend more time getting nano in sectors 1-3 to make the first chokepoint. Whether this is worthwhile is a very complicated question that depends both upon what nanos in sectors 1-3 could be scrapped in favour of ones in sectors 3-5 and on how much nano you have to spare at the sector 5 chokepoint, both of which in turn depend upon how much extra nano you're able to get from slain enemies.

First of all, I'm going to speculate that these are the nanos from your old run that you're currently skipping (you've already mentioned two of them):

* The 8 nano at 5:37 (1.5 seconds saved)
* The 8 nano at 6:58 (0.5 seconds saved)
* The 8 nano at 7:36 (2 seconds saved)
* The 8 nano at 0:30 of vid 2 (1.5 seconds saved)

These are, I think, the only 8-nano detour nanos.

I'm kind of surprised that you said you're skipping the 6:58 nano since it saves so little time; it'd be a second faster, I'd think, to skip the 16 nano at 5:43 instead. (Yes, this seems to leave you with a 4 nano deficit at the second chokepoint but that's easily made up by having the soldier by the exploding crate in sector 2 kill himself and taking his nano).

Anyway, if you were to level up attack in the airvent instead, you could eliminate the 3-second detour for an 8 nano at 4:28, and by not skipping the 6:58 8-nano you could save a further 2 second detour for another 8 nano a moment later at 4:36. Heck, if you can get 4 more nano on level 5 from enemies (seems doable?), as well as getting an extra 4 nano by machine-gunning the scout at 3:01 and buster-gunning the one at 4:52 (both can be done without stopping), you'd be able to skip the 4:28 and 4:36 nanos while still skipping the 6:58 one. I'm pretty sure this is enough to justify delaying levelling up attack until the air vent - I'm pretty sure there's 1 or 2 seconds to be saved by doing it.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-23 12:32:30 pm
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
I've finally caught up with your thinking here and get that there are basically two chokepoints to worry about: levelling up attack for Krotera (which currently happens well before the fight itself), and hitting level 18 in time for the nuke.

It's not just Attack 4 that is needed for Krotera, but Crack 3, Tasen 3 (both of these before the end of Sector 2 so I can get the Machinegun/Buster gun) and Assimilate 3 (to get enough ammo to take Krotera out). I'll see what happens if I wait with leveling for the end of Sector 3 though, as long as I get the same quantity of Nano.

EDIT: This seems to be 3-4 seconds slower overall... unless I skip the 3rd Assimilate level plus one of the Nano in Sector 3, and defeat Krotera by shooting him 16 times, then hoping he'll fire the MPFB. However, this will only be 1 second faster and leaves me short on Nano for Sector 5. Eh, it's hard to explain what I mean. :p

Quote:
I'm kind of surprised that you said you're skipping the 6:58 nano since it saves so little time

I'm taking the path below this Nano now, which is why I skip it.

Quote:
that's easily made up by having the soldier by the exploding crate in sector 2 kill himself and taking his nano

There's about a 1/30 chance that this happens though... not worth it. Staying behind to blow it up yourself takes time, too.

Quote:
Anyway, if you were to level up attack in the airvent instead, you could eliminate the 3-second detour for an 8 nano at 4:28

This is a 16 Nano, not 8 so it's quite important. It also puts me right in the path of the Assimilate station. It's barely a ½-second detour with that in mind.
Quote from Ultimortal:
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
I've finally caught up with your thinking here and get that there are basically two chokepoints to worry about: levelling up attack for Krotera (which currently happens well before the fight itself), and hitting level 18 in time for the nuke.

It's not just Attack 4 that is needed for Krotera, but Crack 3, Tasen 3 (both of these before the end of Sector 2 so I can get the Machinegun/Buster gun) and Assimilate 3 (to get enough ammo to take Krotera out).


Yeah but you have easily enough Nano to get all these before the end of Sector 2 without any detours.

Quote:
EDIT: This seems to be 3-4 seconds slower overall... unless I skip the 3rd Assimilate level plus one of the Nano in Sector 3, and defeat Krotera by shooting him 16 times, then hoping he'll fire the MPFB. However, this will only be 1 second faster and leaves me short on Nano for Sector 5. Eh, it's hard to explain what I mean. :p


Yeah I'm confused. Tongue I mean, even skipping all detour nano in sectors 1-3, you'll still be able to get crack, assimilate and tasen in sector 2 and have enough nano for attack 4 by the time you get to the final attack level station in sector 3, right? So I don't really see why you'll need to skip assimilate 3? The idea of delaying attack 4 till the air vent is that since it means you'll have enough nano for Krotera without having to go out of your way for it, it means that if you can make up some extra nano on level 5 from enemies, then you can get some of your nano for the nuke there and thus skip some of the detour nano in sectors 1-3.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm kind of surprised that you said you're skipping the 6:58 nano since it saves so little time

I'm taking the path below this Nano now, which is why I skip it.


Ah, makes sense.

Quote:
Quote:
that's easily made up by having the soldier by the exploding crate in sector 2 kill himself and taking his nano

There's about a 1/30 chance that this happens though... not worth it. Staying behind to blow it up yourself takes time, too.


Shoot the crate to damage it right before you jump over it, and he'll blow himself up almost every time.

Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, if you were to level up attack in the airvent instead, you could eliminate the 3-second detour for an 8 nano at 4:28

This is a 16 Nano, not 8 so it's quite important. It also puts me right in the path of the Assimilate station. It's barely a ½-second detour with that in mind.


Damn, thought it was an 8. The assimilate station doesn't matter though since even without any detour nano you can still have got crack, tasen and assimilate where they need to be by the end of sector 2.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-24 05:51:52 am
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
Yeah I'm confused. Tongue I mean, even skipping all detour nano in sectors 1-3, you'll still be able to get crack, assimilate and tasen in sector 2 and have enough nano for attack 4 by the time you get to the final attack level station in sector 3, right?

I'll be too far behind on reaching level 18 if I skip any of the nano. Anyway, strange as it sounds, using the Attack station at the end of Sector 3 is a 4-second detour which is just as long as the other little detours combined. I'll just settle with what I'm doing now... if there's one or two seconds to be saved here, it's too confusing to figure out, I'd rather get on with it. Tongue Sorry...

*EDIT*

So, I've moved on and done Sector 7. Here's what I did:
Get only Nano that lies in the path.
Take the upper path at the start.
Rocket the weak wall and go through the vent in the roof.
Get all the Nano in the armory. Ignore ammo except the MPFB pack, which pushes my MPFB ammo to 11, I need it since I'm Nuking Proxima.
Activate checkpoint.
MPFB jump at first turret inside the ship as before.
MPFB jump across the big room with the terminal at the end as before.
MPFB jump on the way back across the big room as before.
After activating the final terminal, blow up and reappear at the checkpoint.
Take the mid path in the Phantom Hammer room, where the overload is.
Nuke the Phantom Hammer.
(MPFB jump is impossible in the following room due to the shape of the ceiling.)
Nuke across the gap to the left of the second Checkpoint.
Keep 1 MPFB cell after Proxima fight.

Proxima:
Nuke it into the right electropad. Hit it with 1 MFPB shot while luring it into the left pad.
Stand inside Proxima while it gets fried on the left pad, and MPFB it to the right. With luck, it will try to follow you but realize it's stuck in the lower right corner, so it will immediately go to its next "order" - which instantly activates the terminals.
Activate left terminal, MPFB jump to the right, activate right terminal.
Finish the job after this with both electropads, MPFB and Spread rockets for the last chip of damage.


The run so far:
Improved Sector 1 from 1:23 to 1:22
Improved Sector 2 from 2:25 to 2:21
Improved Sector 3 from 1:54 to 1:52
Krotera is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector 4 from 2:20 to 2:10
Improved Sector 5 from 2:47 to 2:45
Asha is the same: 0:03
Improved Sector 6 from 2:01 to 1:54
Improved Sector 7 from 3:06 to 2:59 (new)
Improved Proxima from 0:41 to 0:31 (new)
Looks like good progress. I don't really have much else to say at this point.

Any chance of some videos of your progress so far?
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-12-08 01:34:15 am
(EDIT)
I've uploaded a low-quality 400*300 encode if you want to see the whole run so far, it's 183 MB. Ask and I'll PM you the link.

I've tried Anri-Chan out, it neatly makes all the low- to insane-quality encodes. Even low quality looks better than my recordings of the previous run. Excellent program! Smiley


The run so far:
Improved Sector 1 from 1:23 to 1:22
Improved Sector 2 from 2:25 to 2:21
Improved Sector 3 from 1:54 to 1:52
Krotera is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector 4 from 2:20 to 2:10
Improved Sector 5 from 2:47 to 2:45
Asha is the same: 0:03
Improved Sector 6 from 2:01 to 1:54
Improved Sector 7 from 3:06 to 2:59
Improved Proxima from 0:41 to 0:31
Improved Sector 8 from 2:10 to 2:05 (new)

This Sector 8 time was one in a thousand. Besides everything else going according to plan, which was about one in 100, a lucky Plasma shot saved another 2 seconds by launching me up to the ledge after the first lift. I lost a second towards the end dodging lots of Shocksplinter, but I've had all I can take of this segment. Tongue
Okay, watched the vid. I'll pick each level apart and find every mistake I can:

Sector 1: * You can use the teleporter earlier, looks like about 3 frames. Besides that the only place I can see any frames being shaved is getting the nano at 1:10. Basically perfect.

Sector 2: * I just tested and there's a good half second to be saved by being faster with the first two cracks. It may help to mash down and right simultaneously; you seem to be alternating?
* You should've only got one point of crack at the first station and waited until the second station for the second point. That way you could jump out of both animations. You did this with your Tasen stat on Sector 1 so I dunno why you didn't do it here.
* There's the 4 extra nano you could've got that I've already brought up, although this probably doesn't matter (I dunno what your late-game nano situation is gonna be like, presumably fine?)
* With better luck, the scout you suicide on could be standing next to the terminal so that you're taking damage from him even as you use the terminal. This would probably save half a second, but I don't know how many tries it would take to get this kind of luck.
* There's the pretty unlucky bit of damage you take after the Tasen commander the costs like 4 frames or whatever.

I reckon you could definitely get the time down by a second here, especially since it looks like you'd only need to shave about half a second to do it (not sure exactly since I can't open the file with VirtualDub).

Sector 3 looks basically perfect save for the fact that you passed up 2 free nano from that scout for no reason whatsoever. Tongue

Sector 4:
* The nanofield reboot can be done 1/3 to 1/2 a second faster; you should've done it at the very start of the level to let you go at it in as frenzied a way as possible without having to worry about failing.
* Edit: You also put an extra point in health you don't need, only to reboot it away later in the level.
* You also miss out on 4 free nano that could be had by resonance detonating scouts as you pass them.
* It looks like the biggest time cost here is the soldier in the shredder moving before you reach him. Having to walk the extra distance to the shredder looks like it costs a second on its own. Combined with having to wait a few frames for rockets on a couple of occassions, I'd say you could get the time down by a second here, although it would be tricky. What would definitely be doable, though, is sparing enough time to get one more point in crack, saving a few frames in the next sector to help save a second there.

Sector 5:
* You would've saved a few frames if you'd used the resonance detonator to destroy the boxes before levelling your Tasen stat instead of jumping through them, both from saving a landing frame and making it easier to start using the terminal at the first possible moment.
* Immediately after creating and selecting the spread rockets, you should've made the resonance reflector. It saves you half a second (by having the spread rockets finish loading while the 'well done you made a resonance reflector' message is on-screen pausing the timer) and perhaps more importantly it means you'll have a resonance reflector for the later levels which I would imagine could be very useful.

Perhaps with a little time saved by placing an extra point in crack in sector 4, you could save a second here. I doubt it, though. Sector 4 looks like the easier place to shave the second if there's one to be shaved.

Sector 6:
I can't see anything to criticise here. There's a little time lost, obviously, but it's all from lots of minor random factors. Nothing stands out as easily improvable.

Sector 7:
* Edit: Why'd you take the route through the explodable wall at 14:52 instead of just resonance detonatoring the door beneath it? You end up getting hit anyway, and you waste however many frames the climbing animation is.
* I can't understand why you got the armour upgrade. Maybe I'm just stupid but it looks like a pure waste of time to me.
* Did you really have to kick that turret? I think you could've made it.
* There's probably a second to save by getting lucky and having the Komato shoot you right after you get the health packs next to the terminal, so you can finish yourself in one shot. Like with the Tasen scout positioning with the death warp in sector 2, I don't know whether what I'm suggesting is too unlikely to be put into practice, though.

Edit: On the plus side, I was basically highly impressed by everything. I think some of the pre-Sector-7 devestator jumps were new right? They were awesome, anyway.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-12-08 01:36:49 am
Thanks EC, first of all I'm not going to redo any segments, I'm saving that for someone crazier than me (if there is such a person who would want to run this game). Smiley But I will point out the important timesavers you found in the run's comments.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
Sector 1: * You can use the teleporter earlier, looks like about 3 frames. Besides that the only place I can see any frames being shaved is getting the nano at 1:10. Basically perfect.

These don't add up to a new second compared to my time though, so they don't matter.

Quote:
* I just tested and there's a good half second to be saved by being faster with the first two cracks. It may help to mash down and right simultaneously; you seem to be alternating?

I'm mashing both right and down at the same time with my middle and ring fingers, slightly alternating with right first so I won't accidentally go into the second column and go downwards too much, increasing my chances of hitting the ice node.

Quote:
* There's the 4 extra nano you could've got that I've already brought up, although this probably doesn't matter (I dunno what your late-game nano situation is gonna be like, presumably fine?)

Yes, it's looking fine. I may have to shoot a few extra enemies in Sector 9, but I'm so heavily armed that won't be a problem.

Quote:
* With better luck, the scout you suicide on could be standing next to the terminal so that you're taking damage from him even as you use the terminal. This would probably save half a second, but I don't know how many tries it would take to get this kind of luck.

Yes, unfortunately luck is the most annoying thing about Iji. Tongue I tried to fully clear each Sector at least 3 times and keep the best one, but luck (and patience) is what's stopping me from getting those perfect times.

Quote:
Sector 3 looks basically perfect save for the fact that you passed up 2 free nano from that scout for no reason whatsoever.

I forgot about it during that attempt, fortunately I didn't need it later. Normally I can keep an entire segment in my head, whenever I approach the next room I already know what to do, and the start of each Sector is like muscle memory. Tongue But sometimes I just mess up and don't notice until later, like why I got a Health upgrade here and in Sector 4.

Quote:
* You also miss out on 4 free nano that could be had by resonance detonating scouts as you pass them.

I'm always nervous at the end of Sectors (especially with something as luck-related as the Shredder in this room), it happened before that I wasted the detonator shot in this room and couldn't use it on the door, so I didn't do it this time. But you're right, it's safe to use on the first Scout(s).

Quote:
* Immediately after creating and selecting the spread rockets, you should've made the resonance reflector. It saves you half a second (by having the spread rockets finish loading while the 'well done you made a resonance reflector' message is on-screen pausing the timer) and perhaps more importantly it means you'll have a resonance reflector for the later levels which I would imagine could be very useful.

Good idea, I never even thought about that! The reflector in itself is useless for the run, but that's a clever trick to save time. Smiley

Quote:
* Edit: Why'd you take the route through the explodable wall at 14:52 instead of just resonance detonatoring the door beneath it? You end up getting hit anyway, and you waste however many frames the climbing animation is.

It's due to having to take that mini-army head on that consistently ruined attempts in my previous speedrun (getting hit two or three times in a row), I was so tired of them that it's easier for me to avoid them altogether. Tongue Dropping down on top of the Beast usually lets me rocket it and get its nano too.

Quote:
I can't understand why you got the armour upgrade. Maybe I'm just stupid but it looks like a pure waste of time to me.

It's really necessary for the following Sectors, where I'll spend more time walking through enemies who carry Pulse cannon, Hyper pulse and Splintergun, which is nasty if your Armor level is low. I considered it 2 seconds well wasted. Smiley No other Armor upgrades in the remaining Sectors will be as close to the main path as this one.

Quote:
* Did you really have to kick that turret? I think you could've made it.

The only other option was to jump over it, but I panicked and kicked it. Sad If I hadn't done either, I'd be shot either in the face or in my back after walking through it - Turrets turn around and fire their projectile immediately if you go to their other side when they're done charging.

Quote:
There's probably a second to save by getting lucky and having the Komato shoot you right after you get the health packs next to the terminal, so you can finish yourself in one shot. Like with the Tasen scout positioning with the death warp in sector 2, I don't know whether what I'm suggesting is too unlikely to be put into practice, though.

Yeah, it's down to how long you're willing to spend getting luck that good. It only happened 1/10 times I think.

Quote:
Edit: On the plus side, I was basically highly impressed by everything. I think some of the pre-Sector-7 devestator jumps were new right? They were awesome, anyway.

I think the only new MPFB jump was in Sector 6, in the first terminal/Assassin room, and at the very end of Sector 5. Wait until you see Sector 8, barring some bad luck at the end it's quite an awesome display of luck and planning compared to that blooper reel I posted (edit: removed). Smiley

Thanks for your comments and encouragments! Now that I'm up to Sector 9, I'm first going to make sure which order to activate the four terminals and get the Shredder is the fastest, then see if I can hog enough Nano to boost my Attack level for Iosa, though it seems unlikely - I'll probably be spending every point on getting the Velocithor.
Quote from Ultimortal:
I'm not going to redo any segments, I'm saving that for someone crazier than me (if there is such a person who would want to run this game).


If ever I finish my Bioshock run, next I'll beat your Iji run. Smiley

Quote:
I'd be shot either in the face or in my back after walking through it - Turrets turn around and fire their projectile immediately if you go to their other side when they're done charging.


If a turret shoots right as you're walking through it, it'll miss you.
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-12-08 01:41:24 am
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
If ever I finish my Bioshock run, next I'll beat your Iji run. Smiley

I look forward to it Smiley It'd be a big compliment. I feel a bit embarrased having to run my own game after all.

Quote:
If a turret shoots right as you're walking through it, it'll miss you.

True, but that Turret ended several runs because I was shot while passing through, and I desperately didn't want it to happen again. Tongue I can't even tech it since I only have 1 HP there.

As suggested in this thread I also defragmented my harddrive. Windows defrag said that one of my recorded speedrun segments consisted of over 1200 parts on the harddrive. Let's see if things will run smoothly now.


Edit: I only found one new thing in Sector 9 so I'll mainly use the old route. I tried abusing the checkpoint but it was slower no matter how I went about it. At the end when you fall down a long empty lift shaft and get ambushed by two turrets, I could MPFB jump from the right one, but it doesn't actually save time unless I land perfectly.

The new thing is to activate the checkpoint in the Tasen base, jump up to the ledge above, MPFB into the right wall to fly over the health pickups below, walk left to trigger the "Iosa attack", then MPFB into the left wall to reappear at the checkpoint. This difficult trick saves about 4 seconds.


Edit2: It looks like the recording slowdown problems went away. Smiley I'm considering going back to Fullscreen and turning Gamma effects on, just because it looks nicer in Sector 9 and X... and gives me less of an eyestrain. I think that's allowed?


Edit3: ****! I just realized there's a bug in the game's timing that's still present in 1.5 - when you restart a boss room enough times, your time will reset but nudge forward by 1 second. This means the game's internal timer is not accurate which not only makes speedrunning a pain, it might just invalidate any run made on it until I fix this bug.
Quote:
I'm considering going back to Fullscreen and turning Gamma effects on, just because it looks nicer in Sector 9 and X... and gives me less of an eyestrain. I think that's allowed?


Yeah there's no rule against changing graphics settings mid-run, just do what you think is best / whatever's convenient.

(Although - the resolution is the same in windowed and fullscreen mode, right? You might have some difficulty stitching the videos together otherwise.)

Quote:
****! I just realized there's a bug in the game's timing that's still present in 1.5 - when you restart a boss room enough times, your time will reset but nudge forward by 1 second. This means the game's internal timer is not accurate which not only makes speedrunning a pain, it might just invalidate any run made on it until I fix this bug.


SDA has let much worse issues with in-game timers slide in the past. At least here the problem is consistent - just consider it a feature of speedrunning the game that you only get so many tries at a boss room before losing a second and having to play the level over. Wink
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-27 02:49:57 pm
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
Yeah there's no rule against changing graphics settings mid-run, just do what you think is best / whatever's convenient.
(Although - the resolution is the same in windowed and fullscreen mode, right? You might have some difficulty stitching the videos together otherwise.)

Yes, the only difference is that one mode is 800*600 windowed and the other sets the resolution to is 800*600 and runs in dedicated graphics mode. The FRAPS output is identical.

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SDA has let much worse issues with in-game timers slide in the past. At least here the problem is consistent - just consider it a feature of speedrunning the game that you only get so many tries at a boss room before losing a second and having to play the level over. Wink

I guess you're right. The bug is that if you restart the boss on the same frame as the second counter ticks up, the "previous time" is loaded at the same time, which means the "previous time" seconds counter also ticks up. Embarrasing bug, but at least it's easy to avoid; just pause the game roughly halfway between two seconds and choose Retry. So thankfully it can be avoided. Smiley

I got a 2:58 time on Sector 9 but this bug occured twice as I was fighting Iosa, and I didn't notice until the time suddenly started reading 3:00 when the battle started.

Thanks EC, for a while I thought I was going to toss the whole thing away. Tongue

Edit: I found another timing issue - but it's not what I would call a problem since I'm running segmented. The instant you defeat Iosa 1 is when the "previous time" is set. There's a short delay of explosions and screen flashing during which time the timer is still running before the Iosa 2 fight begins - in my case, the timer went from 4:05 to 4:06 seconds on the exact frame after beating Iosa 1. When I retried Iosa 2, my time was 4:05 which was technically correct, even if you can see that Iosa 1 ended at 4:06 if you look carefully. I should point this out in my run comments though.



The run so far:
Improved Sector 1 from 1:23 to 1:22
Improved Sector 2 from 2:25 to 2:21
Improved Sector 3 from 1:54 to 1:52
Krotera is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector 4 from 2:20 to 2:10
Improved Sector 5 from 2:47 to 2:45
Asha is the same: 0:03
Improved Sector 6 from 2:01 to 1:54
Improved Sector 7 from 3:06 to 2:59
Improved Proxima from 0:41 to 0:31
Improved Sector 8 from 2:10 to 2:05
Improved Sector 9 from 3:07 to 2:59 (new) - 8 seconds saved
Improved Iosa from 1:28 to 1:06 (new) - 22 seconds saved
Iosa2 is the same, 0:08 (new) - 0 seconds saved (I miscalculated at first and thought I saved 1 second here)

Sector 9 was a major pain with the enemy randomness. Iosa was way faster than I thought - I used the Spread rockets and a Retribution, which cut a large chunk of health from Iosa and gave me some temporary invulnerability to fire more rockets. I was lucky at the end; after teching a Plasma shot, Iosa warmed up an MPFB shot, so I walked into it while firing my own MPFB, dealing 18 damage to her. I forgot to retry before landing the final blow, but I never came close to this time before and I was very lucky, so I went along with it. Smiley

Now I'm trying to come up with improvements to the Sector X route, but I got nothing.
For sector X itself, the only thing I can think of is those plasma cannon turrets we mentioned earlier - I've confirmed it is possible to jump to the next floor before they fire without having to duck.

For Tor, a thought: since weapon reload times are slightly less than the time taken to ready a weapon when you select it (and I think the difference is greater with attack 10), might it be more efficient to skip reflecting the first couple of charged shots and keep devestatoring Tor, waiting until there are several shots orbitting him, then swap to the reflector and go on a spree reflecting them? I don't know whether you can actually get any extra shots in this way or not.

What definitely would save time, if it's even possible and if you can pull it off, is managing to reflect multiple charged shots at Tor simultaneously.

Edit: Oh yeah, you may already know this and have decided it doesn't help, but there's enough time to get in a rocket after reflecting a charged shot. Maybe if done every time this could save a devestator shot by the end?
Edit history:
Ultimortal: 2009-09-28 05:42:54 am
Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
For sector X itself, the only thing I can think of is those plasma cannon turrets we mentioned earlier - I've confirmed it is possible to jump to the next floor before they fire without having to duck.

It seems to depend on how early they spot you though. Too early, and you have to avoid them. I'd rather not rely so much on luck at the end of the Sector. Sad


EDIT: I forgot, chargeballs deal 83 damage and not 80. I did some test runs and came to the conclusion that the MPFB explosion caused by the chargeball hitting Tor adds an additional 3 damage... it doesn't seem to be affected by my attack stat though. I edited the below paragraphs to reflect this.

Since we're talking Tor, here are some stats:
Tor's HP: 900
Chargeball hit: 83
Full MPFB hit: 18
Spread rocket hit: 12
Rocket hit: 4

Optimally I'll get one chargeball, five MPFB and one rocket on him each round. This deals 177 damage, leaving him at 15 HP on round six. One MPFB finishes him. I can miss with at most one of my rockets and still make it. In fact, if I manage to sneak 6 MPFB shots in during one of the rounds, I can skip the sixth round completely!

Also, I only need an Assimilate level of 3 since I'm using 26 MPFB cells, I got Assimilate 4 in the previous run. So I can skip two of the MPFB ammo packs at the end.

The Spread rockets eat too much ammo and have too little damage per second to be useful in this fight.

Edit again: I don't want Tor to fire Fractal rockets too much - they delay the battle, even if it means getting an extra MPFB shot in, I don't need this to happen more than once with this strategy.

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What definitely would save time, if it's even possible and if you can pull it off, is managing to reflect multiple charged shots at Tor simultaneously.

The problem with this idea is, the shots tend to orbit him in such a way that they don't line up for being reflected at the same time. And even if I did reflect two at the same time, there is no time to also reflect the shot he's currently firing. This means that out of three chargeballs, I've only managed to reflect two, at the cost of getting at most 6 extra MPFBs in if I'm very lucky. The luck required for reflecting tow of them is also pretty crazy. So I would be trading 83 damage for 108, but the difference is only 1.4 MPFB shots. Like the strategy of retrying until he fires Fractal rockets every time, which lets you get 1 extra MPFB in every round, I'm not crazy or patient enough for it. Tongue

Quote:
Edit: Oh yeah, you may already know this and have decided it doesn't help, but there's enough time to get in a rocket after reflecting a charged shot. Maybe if done every time this could save a devestator shot by the end?

As I said above I'll try to do this, but whether it works depends on how close I am to him when reflecting. If I do it in each of the first five round, it adds up to 20 damage which saves one MPFB shot.


EDIT:

Run complete!
Improved Sector 1 from 1:23 to 1:22
Improved Sector 2 from 2:25 to 2:21
Improved Sector 3 from 1:54 to 1:52
Krotera is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector 4 from 2:20 to 2:10
Improved Sector 5 from 2:47 to 2:45
Asha is the same: 0:03
Improved Sector 6 from 2:01 to 1:54
Improved Sector 7 from 3:06 to 2:59
Improved Proxima from 0:41 to 0:31
Improved Sector 8 from 2:10 to 2:05
Improved Sector 9 from 3:07 to 2:59
Improved Iosa from 1:28 to 1:06
Iosa2 is the same: 0:08
Improved Sector X from 2:39 to 2:30 (new)
Improved Tor from 2:34 to 2:25 (new)

Total time: 27:18
Total improvement: 1:36

A consistent 2:30-2:31 on Sector X wasn't too hard, and my Tor time was one second better than what I was aiming for. Although I would have saved one more second by standing closer to him when firing the last rocket, it's no biggie all things considered.
Woot!!!

Are you going to upload the run to youtube / anywhere prior to submitting to SDA? (Typical time from submission to uploading on SDA is quite long.)

Edit: Oh btw I did have one more thought about Tor - do you have enough spare devestator ammo to nuke him at the very start of the fight? And how much time would this save? Nevermind I'm stupid, forgot you rebooted so you don't have a nuke any more.

Edit 2: 1:36 improvement is pretty awesome, I never would've thought there'd be that much room for improvement before you started on the new run.
Thanks Smiley It's more than I thought too. I was hoping for around 30 seconds.

I would have enough ammo for a Nuke, but since it only deals 10 damage with full Attack it wouldn't be worth the time to crack it again.

I dunno about YouTube, I kind of like the run I have there with the annotations, and the two runs might be confused since I can't upload it as a single video.

I'd like to have the video as a single movie on SDA considering how short some of the segments are, and it's more fun to watch continuously... I'll see what happens if I try to put all the segments together into one uncompressed movie file, if it's possible to make a file that large in Windows XP. It's 9.94 GB in total.