Final Fantasy IX Speedrun

2012-04-19 10:34:43 am

Make it so.

Just chipping in with my support for this run, I've been considering casually working out a SS route for this game for a little while, when I've got a bit of time lets see if I can at least get Excaliber 2!

So yeah, best of luck with the run and if you need any testing or anything, just let me know.

Essentia

2012-04-19 10:48:45 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from BZero:

BTW, did you ever figure out exactly how the pause trick works?

I did kind of figure out the pause trick, but it's been a few years so I hope I'm remembering correctly. Basically, you pause the game while something is loading, and then unpause after it's all loaded. The game timer doesn't run while the game is paused, so this tricks saves in-game timer but not real time. I think the trick is mainly used after skipping an FMV while the next scene is loading, but I don't know if it can be used other places.

BZero

2012-04-19 11:04:30 am

In that case, I don't want to use it. I want the in-game time and real time to be the same.

BTW, compared the loading time after the first FMV, measured from the first frame of the "close-up" of the door at the end of the FMV until the first frame of the "sure is dark" dialogue box:

Your video: 7.87 seconds
My video: 7.67 seconds

So my game loaded the first screen after the opening FMV .2 seconds faster than your game. That is so tiny, it could possibly be from something seemingly insignificant, like different PS2 versions or something (I'm playing on a slim version). But I don't know, I'm hoping it's not the fact that I'm playing on a chipped PAL console instead of a real NTSC console. It seems weird that that would make the game load faster, but I don't know. I'll do some more comparisons, and then I could just record the opening FMV a couple more times and see if I get the same loading times each time or if there's some randomness to it.

And thanks for the support, you two. Smiley

moooh

2012-04-19 11:13:38 am

Exoray

As long as your mod-chip doesn't affect the game speed in any way and you're still running it from an official copy of the game you should be able to submit.

Tiberius

2012-04-19 11:20:28 am

Make it so.

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was just a little bit random with the load times. I know some other FFs are in places, for example in FFX on the ice field before Macalania temple there's a point where Brother can take anywhere between 3 and 8 seconds to start talking.

I'll check on my copy too just to give some extra info.

BZero

Edit history:

BZero: 2012-04-19 12:19:13 pm

2012-04-19 11:35:52 am

Did some more comparisons: The biggest difference I've found was after the second FMV: My game loads 0.93 seconds faster.

Also, here's my exact time from I hit "new game" (the last frame the hand pointer was visible) until I saved (the first frame the "do not remove memory cards" box is visible):

8:17.5

The game saved this as 8:15

Essentia's time measured in the same way:

8:39.6

The game saved this as 8:35. Ignoring the fractions, the game shaves off 4 seconds for Essentia and 2 seconds for me. Could it be that the extra loading in Essentia's video isn't counted towards the in-game timer? Or could it be that Essentia's video has been slowed down a tiny bit at some point?

Edit: Recorded the opening FMV two more times to check the loading after the FMV, and I got the times 7.60 and 7.67. Also, to see if Essentia's video had been slowed down at some point, I compared a part of the opening FMV (no loading time there) with my recording, and this part was exactly the same length, so the video is running at the correct speed.

This can only mean that the save moogle noticed the two extra seconds Essentia had to wait for the game to load and declined to include them in his log book. Smiley

So yeah, I guess it's OK to use this chip, then..?

Now, onto the actual run. Like I said, I saved some time by killing my own party instead of Baku. I also got the Mage Masher on the first attempt. I actually managed this twice before, both saved at 8:22, but I wasn't happy with my menu navigation or other small blunders in those attempts. I'm still not sure if I'm completely happy with this 8:15 attempt; I slowed down my button mashing a lot before I had to hit down to choose Garnet instead of Brahne. I'm just not sure how much of a perfectionist I'm going to be with this. I don't want to end up like GarlandG and spend 7 or 8 years on this run. >_>

Did some more comparisons: The biggest difference I've found was after the second FMV: My game loads 0.93 seconds faster.

Also, here's my exact time from I hit "new game" (the last frame the hand pointer was visible) until I saved (the first frame the "do not remove memory cards" box is visible):

8:17.5

The game saved this as 8:15

Essentia's time measured in the same way:

8:39.6

The game saved this as 8:35. Ignoring the fractions, the game shaves off 4 seconds for Essentia and 2 seconds for me. Could it be that the extra loading in Essentia's video isn't counted towards the in-game timer? Or could it be that Essentia's video has been slowed down a tiny bit at some point?

Edit: Recorded the opening FMV two more times to check the loading after the FMV, and I got the times 7.60 and 7.67. Also, to see if Essentia's video had been slowed down at some point, I compared a part of the opening FMV (no loading time there) with my recording, and this part was exactly the same length, so the video is running at the correct speed.

This can only mean that the save moogle noticed the two extra seconds Essentia had to wait for the game to load and declined to include them in his log book. :)

So yeah, I guess it's OK to use this chip, then..?

Now, onto the actual run. Like I said, I saved some time by killing my own party instead of Baku. I also got the Mage Masher on the first attempt. I actually managed this twice before, both saved at 8:22, but I wasn't happy with my menu navigation or other small blunders in those attempts. I'm still not sure if I'm completely happy with this 8:15 attempt; I slowed down my button mashing a lot before I had to hit down to choose Garnet instead of Brahne. I'm just not sure how much of a perfectionist I'm going to be with this. I don't want to end up like GarlandG and spend 7 or 8 years on this run. >_>

Essentia

2012-04-19 12:49:05 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Your slim PS2 could account for some of the loading differences as well (I used a fat model). During the KH2 race at SGDQ we realized that the slim was loading cutscenes faster than the fat, so we had to switch out the slim to make the race fair.

BZero

2012-04-19 12:59:32 pm

But if the in-game timer stops during this extra loading time (which seems to be the case), it's still a fair comparison, don't you think?

Anyway, I just got a *perfect* Baku battle (compared the video to my 8:15 attempt and the battle was 2 seconds faster), but then I made some blunders while controlling Vivi, so I ended up with a time of 8:16. I think I'll just keep the 8:15 attempt and move on...

puwexil

2012-04-19 01:53:58 pm

Professional Second Banana

It's an unfortunate reality that disc-based Square/Square-Enix include load times on the in-game timer, and those load times vary by console hardware. From what I've seen, the fastest loads for PSX games can be achieved on a PS2 slim with fast disc speed (if supported - in some games like Final Fantasy VIII and Parasite Eve 2 fast disc speed can or will cause crashes). For PS2 games I've gotten the fastest loads on my 2nd Gen PS3 (which has software emulation of the PS2 engine), though for speedruns that I want to submit, I prefer to use my PS2 slim so that it's fair competition (since the currently-available PS3 models don't have PS2 compatibility).

BZero

2012-04-19 01:59:44 pm

But how do you explain that Essentia's in-game time was 4.6 seconds faster than real-time at the first save point, while my time was only 2.5 seconds faster?

(Currently practicing segment 2.)

Alko

2012-04-19 02:53:24 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Oh my god, another one of my favourite games will be re-killed? Awesome!
And single-segmenting this game? Oh my god, that sounds like fun to watch ^^

Go for gold ^^

BZero

2012-04-19 03:00:18 pm

Quote from Alko:

Oh my god, another one of my favourite games will be re-killed? Awesome!

Well, first I need to get the hang of this sword fight. I've done it before, but that was on the slower PAL version. This is gonna take some practicing.

But thanks for the support. Smiley

Rakuen

2012-05-05 10:33:58 am

Weegee Time

A TAS has been published for this game with a final time of 7:37:12.28. You might want to review it before working on a serious run. Smiley

http://tasvideos.org/3489S.html

I have no name

2012-05-05 11:15:15 am

Obscure games ftw

I've watched the first 2 discs of the TAS, most of the improvements on Essentia's run come from RNG manipulation, faster menu movements and faster dialogue skipping. All the strategies are basically the same or TAS only so far.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2012-05-05 11:32:54 am

2012-05-05 11:32:04 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Yeah, I watched that TAS, and besides better luck manipulation, there isn't much difference in strategies from my run. These are the main differences that I spotted:

-While fighting the Plant Spiders, he filled Zidane's trance gauge most of the way, which gave him a trance in the Black Waltz 1 and Sealion battle much earlier.

-In Dali when you're trying to make Dagger appear in the weapon shop, you're supposed to go to three different places. However, you can go into the pub twice and it will count as two places.

-He skipped one of the Mistodon battles in Alexandria, but it might be a TAS-only trick. In his notes it says: "The loading zone of the fight and the exit of the screen are very close. By walking for one frame and standing still on the last frame possible, you reach both zone at the same time. And the exit takes priority."

-Quina can eat the Earth Guardian! (This one actually made me laugh out loud.)

Alko

2012-05-05 02:12:01 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Quote from Essentia:

-Quina can eat the Earth Guardian! (This one actually made me laugh out loud.)

Yes, that's a beauty =D Didn't you know?

Essentia

2012-05-05 02:28:44 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

Nope, I had no idea - otherwise I probably would have done that in my segmented run.

Alko

Edit history:

Alko: 2012-05-05 02:30:01 pm

2012-05-05 02:29:41 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

s/he keeps on crying on how hungry s/he is on the way there Wink

Okay, granted that happens all the time o.o'

BZero

Edit history:

BZero: 2012-05-08 09:31:28 am

BZero: 2012-05-08 03:06:26 am

BZero: 2012-05-08 03:04:56 am

BZero: 2012-05-08 03:04:02 am

BZero: 2012-05-08 01:01:33 am

2012-05-08 12:55:57 am

If anyone's wondering what the big hold-up is, check this topic.

I think the problem's been resolved now, though. I shall now try to redo segment 1 with my new recording software, to make sure everything's in the same quality.

Edit: New segment 1 time: 0:08:11 (four seconds improvement)

As for segment 2, I'm having a lot of trouble with the sword fight. In all my practicing, I only got a 100 once, the proper way (and by "the proper way" I mean actually looking at the button prompts, reacting to them and then pressing the buttons). However, if I can guess a few of the buttons correctly, I can get a 100 almost semi-consistently. This is some of what I've learned from practicing:

1. For the first 10 or so buttons, the only buttons that can show up are triangle, X, left and right.
2. You have to move right before you can move left (you only move between two spots during the entire sword fight), so the very first button can only be triangle, X or right.
3. You can never get the same button twice in a row.
4. You can never get left directly after right, or vice versa.
5. Combos consisting only of triangle and X are very common in the beginning.

So this is what I do:

1. I actually look at the first button and react to it like you're supposed to do.
2. If the first button is triangle, I gamble on a four-button combo of X, triangle, X, triangle (just tap the buttons to hit them as fast as possible).
3. If the first button is X, I do the same, but start the combo with triangle.
4. If the first button is right, I look at one more button (which will always be either X or triangle), then do the above.
5. Finish the sword fight normally.

Those four super-fast button presses are enough to keep my average time per button down enough to manage to get a 100 fairly often. But yes, sucking at the sword fight means I need some extra luck for this segment.

Question for you, Essentia: In your comments, you say you should have stolen a Silk Shirt in segment 2, but that you bought one in Dali instead. What did you need it for? Vivi needs one for BW3, but Dagger comes with one equipped when she joins your party, so you could just have taken hers. I mean, it's still faster to buy one in Dali (since you have to shop there anyway) than it is to unequip Dagger, but is that the only reason, or is there another reason you needed another Silk Shirt?

If anyone's wondering what the big hold-up is, check [url="http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/frames_missing_when_dazzle_splits_a_recording.html"]this[/url] topic.

I think the problem's been resolved now, though. I shall now try to redo segment 1 with my new recording software, to make sure everything's in the same quality.

Edit: New segment 1 time: 0:08:11 (four seconds improvement)

As for segment 2, I'm having a lot of trouble with the sword fight. In all my practicing, I only got a 100 [i]once[/i], the proper way (and by "the proper way" I mean actually looking at the button prompts, reacting to them and then pressing the buttons). However, if I can [i]guess[/i] a few of the buttons correctly, I can get a 100 almost semi-consistently. This is some of what I've learned from practicing:

1. For the first 10 or so buttons, the only buttons that can show up are triangle, X, left and right.
2. You have to move right before you can move left (you only move between two spots during the entire sword fight), so the very first button can only be triangle, X or right.
3. You can never get the same button twice in a row.
4. You can never get left directly after right, or vice versa.
5. Combos consisting only of triangle and X are very common in the beginning.

So this is what I do:

1. I actually look at the first button and react to it like you're supposed to do.
2. If the first button is triangle, I gamble on a four-button combo of X, triangle, X, triangle (just tap the buttons to hit them as fast as possible).
3. If the first button is X, I do the same, but start the combo with triangle.
4. If the first button is right, I look at one more button (which will always be either X or triangle), then do the above.
5. Finish the sword fight normally.

Those four super-fast button presses are enough to keep my average time per button down enough to manage to get a 100 fairly often. But yes, sucking at the sword fight means I need some extra luck for this segment.

Question for you, Essentia: In your comments, you say you should have stolen a Silk Shirt in segment 2, but that you bought one in Dali instead. What did you need it for? Vivi needs one for BW3, but Dagger comes with one equipped when she joins your party, so you could just have taken hers. I mean, it's still faster to buy one in Dali (since you have to shop there anyway) than it is to unequip Dagger, but is that the only reason, or is there another reason you needed another Silk Shirt?

GarlandG

2012-05-08 03:57:37 am

I will knock you all down!

Quick question: Are you going to Youtube this stuff as you progress?

BZero

2012-05-08 04:24:37 am

Yeah, but I was thinking I'd wait until I've done maybe 10 segments or so to 1) be sure that I'm actually going to finish this, and 2) feel somewhat confident that I can actually beat Essentia's time.

I have no name

2012-05-08 08:18:45 am

I'm pretty sure I've seen a right to left on the sword fight.

and I know what you mean, the best I've ever done on it is a 98.

Essentia

2012-05-08 09:18:14 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Quote from BZero:

Question for you, Essentia: In your comments, you say you should have stolen a Silk Shirt in segment 2, but that you bought one in Dali instead. What did you need it for? Vivi needs one for BW3, but Dagger comes with one equipped when she joins your party, so you could just have taken hers. I mean, it's still faster to buy one in Dali (since you have to shop there anyway) than it is to unequip Dagger, but is that the only reason, or is there another reason you needed another Silk Shirt?

You know, it's been so long since I did that run that I honestly don't remember. I'm guessing it was just so that I wouldn't have to buy one in Dali.

And good luck with the sword fight - I know how frustrating it can be. It sounds like you've figured out a system that works for you, though.

BZero

Edit history:

BZero: 2012-05-08 09:43:09 am

2012-05-08 09:40:16 am

No worries, I found some words of wisdom in that Google-translated Japanese walkthrough linked earlier:

"(Just a little bit) will save you time to remove the clothes of silk dagger in Dali and steal clothes of silk with it here."

I think this means that the only reason to steal a Silk Shirt from Steiner is that it's faster than unequipping it from Dagger (or buying it in Dali). But buying one in Dali is still faster than unequipping Dagger, so if Cinna doesn't steal a Silk Shirt on his turn, I'll just buy one in Dali like you did. If I can get the Tantalus actors to not use any stage magic and impress 100 nobles, I'm definitely not restarting this segment just because I couldn't steal a Silk Shirt.

And thanks. BTW, when I say "fairly often", that's still only about 10% of the time, so combining that with minimal stage magic and the rest of the segment is gonna be a pain.

Essentia

2012-05-08 11:20:09 am

Everything's better with Magitek

I was just thinking about the first segment. Have you watched the TAS? Right when you gain control of Vivi, you can avoid Puck knocking you down by talking to the guy on the right just as Puck runs into you. You can see it in this video at about 5:57.

Also, in segment 2, the fight with Steiner and the two Pluto knights will end if you kill everyone in your own party except Garnet. (You can see it at about 25:50 in the video above.) I don't know if you were already planning to do this, but I thought I'd mention it since I didn't do it in my run.