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Final Fantasy Anniversary Edition (Any %) (Single Segment)

Verifier Responses

Quote:
First off, there was no cheating involved, the large sum of money was due to the use of the equipment glitch.

Audio and video are fine.

However....this run as all sorts of issues that the runner himself comments. Yes there's tons of RNG but even then there's a few things I think the runner could have done to make it better. The Nightmares are a good example -- he comments on how hard they are to run from...yet still tries to run from them all but twice. Considering how quickly they can be taken out, it seems less beneficial to try running at all. But more importantly, the fact he doesn't do it twice makes it look very bad, IMO.
I also think there's a couple spots in Mt. Gulug he could have avoided potential encounter spaces, but I'm willing to assume it's mentally easier to not do that.
I also assume the red mage couldn't learn haste when he was at Elfland the first time.

But yeah, unfortunetly everything adds up. The high encoutnter rate (VERY obvious to anyone who knows the game, especially considering the number of times he comments on it), having SO many bosses giving bad luck (it's not a big deal a couple times....but when like 8 of them do...), bad puzzle time (runner's fault), losing 13 seconds because of forgetting you have something (also runners fault), and just a lot of long lasting ambushes....it really makes me want to put it in the reject pile.


Quote:
Cheating: None

A/V : Fine

the run is under SDA and TASvideos standards by a mile. Nightmares are impossible to escape from, he tries to do otherwise only to lose minutes. multiple ambushes, forgetting he had something, bad puzzles, a majority of the bosses being trolls and extremely high encounter rates make the run an easy REJECT. Also, you could have used BANE sword on Chaos, the 4 rematches and Kary 1st battle, which would have put it into the accept pile.

EDIT: Names referring to NES version


Quote:
No cheating, audio/video quality is fine.

This was really hard to decide on. The runner clearly shows new techniques and this is the best known record. On the other hand, it still has a lot of bad luck and some questionable decision making. Here's a little breakdown I made of things which led to time lost. Bear in mind that this is being compared to an impossible ideal.
179 random encounters ~ 14:55
9 ambushes ~  1:30
11 failures to run ~  1:50
10 casts of Flare ~  1:00
2 casts of Blizzaga ~  0:06
15 melee kills ~  0:45
6 unnecessary menu uses ~  0:10
3 hard to run away ~  0:15
TOTAL ~ 20:31

So, 20 minutes of 'mistakes'... that's quite a lot against the time of this run. Eliminating all random encounters is impossible in a single-segment run anyway, but this run has so many that at least 5 minutes of that delay is still relevant. So about 10 minutes of a 97 minute run...

I'm afraid I have to reject this submission, but it was very, very close to an accept.


Decision: Reject

Reason: Not quite the quality we're looking for

This run will be available for a month. After that this link will no longer work.
http://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationfiles/445
Thread title:  
Edit history:
VorpalEdge: 2013-04-25 01:00:26 am
welcome to the machine
the restriction against guest posters is supposed to only be applied to the public verification board, but seems to be in effect here as well.  as such, this is the runner's response to the verifiers and the verdict:

Quote:
        

    HAI! Well now, this is certainly a surprise. Since there's little for me to base comments on, I'll just react to what was posted.
   
   
Quote from verifier 1:
However....this run as all sorts of issues that the runner himself comments.

    I gave those comments because I am extremely picky and very much a perfectionist of what I do.
   
   
Quote:
Yes there's tons of RNG but even then there's a few things I think the runner could have done to make it better.

    These are the verifier-only notes, which I guess I should paste here. Keep in mind, these are very generalized:
   
Quote:
Problems, sub-optimal, mistakes, etc, verifier notes only:
   
    You can watch the stream of it here: http://www.twitch.tv/lenophis/c/2044079
   
    Cornelia: Three battles before passing the Earthgift Shrine. Accepted a battle in the forest causing the backgroud to be loaded.
   
    Shrine of Chaos: Minor menu flub getting Judgment Staff on Fighter. Bad damage rolls with the Thief and Red Mage on Garland, but the White Mage made up for that with a stupid crit.
   
    En route to Pravoca: Encounter rate kicked in, a few too many battles. Accepted an early ambush, but since it was just two monsters I took it.
   
    Pravoca: 99 Ethers, less can be bought, but the fear of running out of MP prevents me from getting fewer. A PIRATE GOT A TURN OMG.
   
    Ship: Despite the practice being put in, I managed to brainfart this and got a horrible time. After getting the Emergency Exit, the run finally begins, and then a BAD SAHAGIN FIGHT! I wanted to reset here.
   
    Elfheim: Menu flub getting the Dragon Mail and Defenders on my party.
   
    En route to Marsh Cave: A lot of battles, but were successful in running immediately.
   
    Marsh Cave: BAT TROLL! That particular bat troll is about an 80% occurance. Four Piscodemons, was hoping for two. Bat troll the sequel! Forgot place on the map after the Slime battle.
   
    Western Keep: Astos got a turn.
   
    Long-winded trading sequence: A lot of battles before getting back to the ship. Got hung up on the Mythril Hammer treasure pickup. Minor menu flub getting the Thief's Armlet on my party. Almost forgot about the Mythril Knife entirely...
   
    Melmond: Minor flub putting the Barbarian's Sword on my party, then I forgot to heal forcing me to enter the menu again.
   
    Earth Cave: Ambush with Cobra! Go Joe! Minor flub not spotting the Emergency Exit right away.
   
    Earth Rod sequence: An eight-Warg Wolf battle, lost a bunch of time to it. Encounter rate was fairly high overall. Lost my place a bit on the return, and two consecutive bad battles with Warg Wolf.
   
    Earth Cave: Encounter rate was high again, or perhaps it is still high from earlier? The undead made it really scary a couple of times. A bad 7-monster ambush cost a lot of time. Minor movement error on the last floor. Took 3 attacks to kill Lich.
   
    En route to Crescent Lake: A meh ambush with scorpions and anacondas. Trolls were trolls.
   
    Ice Cave: The six-Specter battle was horrible, and frankly I'm surprised the run didn't end here. The following five-Specter ambush was less nerve-killing. Run from the Evil Eye?
   
    Grinding: Two random battles.
   
    Ice Cave escape: Forgot I ran out of MP while grinding. An eight-undead ambush as well. A bad Bloodbones battle.
   
    En route to Waterfall: Overshot Gaia a bit. Can't land there! Accidently stepped out of the river, that cost about 1.5 seconds.
   
    Waterfall: You *can* run from Nightmare, but it's stupidly difficult. Bat troll RETURNS WITH A VENGEANCE! Encounter troll AVENGES ITS FALLEN COMRADES!
   
    Sunken Shrine: Early Red/Prince battles and WHERE IS MY BLACK ROBE. In the square room, I was briefly looking at stream chat while keeping the game in the corner of my eye. I thought I had went down the stairs to the next floor, which is why I turned back up. A meh ambush after getting the Survival Vests.
   
    En route to Mirage Tower: Barely overshot Melmond. Unne turned away, the jerk. NPC next to Unne was less-than-kind. Two battles with Minotaur Zombies. Hard time running from a dinosaur. Overshot Yahnikurm Desert landing a bit.
   
    Mirage Tower: Encounter rate trilogy!
   
    Floating Castle: Bad damage rolls on Tiamat.
   
    Mt. Gulg: You can't land there! Had three more battles than I would've liked.
   
    Temple of Chaos: Overshot the place a bit. Lich got a turn. Thief went before being Hasted (this will be a theme). A BAD Water Elemental fight, and here is where I'm contemplating dropping the Black Robe from the route. Four Purple Worms, but there's no quicker way to take them out.

   
   
Quote:
The Nightmares are a good example -- he comments on how hard they are to run from...yet still tries to run from them all but twice.

    The reason for this is because I was chewed out for not trying to run in previous runs (as one example, it's been mentioned on stream as well), but also because it's possible, and for some reason I'm depending on RNG when I know it may bite me in the ass. If I choose to fight, the Thief will in all likelyhood get an attack in, and he's swinging three times so it's costing some extra animation time. I could have him defend, but that's more time doing menu management.
   
   
Quote:
Considering how quickly they can be taken out, it seems less beneficial to try running at all. But more importantly, the fact he doesn't do it twice makes it look very bad, IMO.

    I've contemplated not running at all from some battles that I know give me problems: Nightmare, Frost Dragons, Chimeras, and almost everything else in the Mirage Tower.
   
   
Quote:
I also think there's a couple spots in Mt. Gulug he could have avoided potential encounter spaces, but I'm willing to assume it's mentally easier to not do that.

    Can you show me these tiles, please? I made an input error on floor 3 and walked one tile farther than I normally do just before stairway down.
   
   
Quote:
I also assume the red mage couldn't learn haste when he was at Elfland the first time.

    You...assume... I've had a run where I thought I could teach my Red Mage Haste, I assumed, and guess what? I WAS WRONG.
   
    This is why I moved teaching my mage Haste, doing so after I complete Mt. Gulg.
   
   
Quote:
But yeah, unfortunetly everything adds up. The high encoutnter rate (VERY obvious to anyone who knows the game, especially considering the number of times he comments on it), having SO many bosses giving bad luck (it's not a big deal a couple times....but when like 8 of them do...), bad puzzle time (runner's fault), losing 13 seconds because of forgetting you have something (also runners fault), and just a lot of long lasting ambushes....it really makes me want to put it in the reject pile.

    I acknowledge forgetting about the Black Robes when I should have used them. I spaced it out because I was nervous, and I was nervous because I was having the run of my life with this baby.
   
   
Quote from verifier 2:
the run is under SDA and TASvideos standards

    I don't recall submitting a TAS, but a human-made speedrun of a game played on console in real-time.
   
   
Quote:
Nightmares are impossible to escape from, he tries to do otherwise only to lose minutes.

    As noted above, they are not impossible to run from, but the tweaks to the running away formula make it much harder than it originally was, and probably should be.
   
   
Quote:
multiple ambushes

    RNG.
   
   
Quote:
forgetting he had something

    Again, the Black Robes noted above.
   
   
Quote:
bad puzzles

    Bad puzzle, singular. And yes, it was definitely sub-par. Something I did admit in my notes.
   
   
Quote:
a majority of the bosses being trolls

    Garland: Did not attack.
    Pirates: One pirate attacked.
    Piscodemons: Four piscodemons (two is optimal), two of them attacked.
    Astos: He attacked physically, and not with magic. One second vs several. Clearly not attacking at all is optimal.
    Vampire: Did not attack.
    Lich: Did not attack, but I had a couple of bad damage rolls so it took three attacks to kill instead of two.
    Kraken: Did not attack.
    Tiamat: Did not attack, had a couple of bad damage rolls so it took four attacks to kill instead of three.
    Marilith: Did not attack, was one-shotted.
    Lich 2: Physically attacked, did not use Flare.
    Marilith 2: Thief was not Hasted before attacking, so she didn't die in the first round. She physically attacked instead of using Firaga.
    Kraken 2: Thief was not Hasted before attacking. Still died in two rounds, and Kraken physically attacked instead of using Thundara or Ink.
    Tiamat 2: Thief was not Hasted before attacking. Still died in two rounds, but Tiamat did get Thunderbolt off.
    Chaos: Aside from Chaos using Blaze, and my White Mage using Healaga one round before Chaos moved, it was a perfect fight.
   
   
Quote:
and extremely high encounter rates make the run an easy REJECT.

    Encounter rate is RNG, and frame-dependent at that. In other words, it's a chaotic RNG.
   
   
Quote:
Also, you could have used BANE sword on Chaos

   
   
Quote:
the 4 rematches

   
   
Quote:
Kary 1st battle

   
    For context, I'll post the fight I had for this run:
   
    Ignoring the fact that the Poison Sword is poison elemental, it would take time (risking at least 2 extra battles) to pick it up, and the only battles where it could get realistic use is Kraken 2 and Tiamat 2, assuming it even connects which depends MORE ON RNG. If you're so sure it works on the PSP version, I want proof.
   
   
Quote from verifier 3:
This was really hard to decide on. The runner clearly shows new techniques and this is the best known record. On the other hand, it still has a lot of bad luck and some questionable decision making. Here's a little breakdown I made of things which led to time lost. Bear in mind that this is being compared to an impossible ideal.
    179 random encounters          ~ 14:55

    I'm shocked you counted them all. However, I question if you're actually expecting a no-encounters run in a single-segment, realtime,
   
   
Quote:
9 ambushes                              ~  1:30

    Only nine ambushes? That is surprising.
   
   
Quote:
11 failures to run                      ~  1:50

    Oy, this number I'm not happy about.
   
   
Quote:
10 casts of Flare                        ~  1:00
    2 casts of Blizzaga                    ~  0:06
    15 melee kills                          ~  0:45
    6 unnecessary menu uses ~  0:10
    3 hard to run away                      ~  0:15

    All of this goes hand-in-hand, since I picked up the Black Robes specifically to avoid casting Flare in areas where Blizzara would do enough damage. Ie: Sunken Shrine and water floor in the final dungeon. If I hadn't forgotten about the Black Robes, it would've been 13 seconds faster overall for the two battles I made that mistake in. However, there's no guarantee that the rest of the run would have played out the same way. In areas where Flare/Blizzara spam wasn't enough, I physically attack.
sda loyalist
I'm aware of how random this game is (obviously) but I feel like there's just too much bad luck in this. Not by a huge amount, but by enough.

Also I didn't say you shouldn't get ANY encounters... I wrote about that in the following paragraph.
Edit history:
Heidrage: 2013-04-25 11:36:38 am
Willing to teach you the impossible
Never played the game and im an hour into the run so far. The encounter rate is dumb. Unless this game has a spell or item that helps reduce them, I dont think they should be held against the runner. Sure, the fewer the better, but with no way of controlling them... that seems harsh.

I cant comment on spells and such as I dont know enough. But to the runner, being how high this encounter rate is, have you looked into your success rate of running vs time to kill enemies? It seems you have either a hard time running from some and just cant from others, would killing them be faster? I know some of the animations take a while, but a 5 second spell is better than 15-30 seconds of being hit for 1-2 points of dmg. It seems your starting to do this in teh later portion of the game (Im at 1:08 now).

Being I have only seen 1 puzzle so far, I dont think it was bad at all. Faster than I could do it, and I used to them kind all the time in other games. So to the verifiers that were picking at it, can you consistently do it significantly faster? In a long run like this, a few seconds should be neglected.

That said, constant losses of time is another story. Hence why I mentioned looking into running vs fighting time averages. Movement looks good to me, very early menu look amazing, but after 10-15 minutes into the run, it significantly slows down. Being how this game works, I cant see the menu changing from each playthrough.

Again, much of what I say might not hold water... Regardless of if this specific reject is proper or not, I do believe that some verifiers are too harsh. And I was that way before. I realized that if a run is superior than the average joe, the best way to prevent it from being on SDA is to obsolete it. If you dont want to put forth the time, why make the runner waist there time? But, if something simple is not being done (using fastest method of movement and such) then ya, keep that shit out of here. Please just remember, the standards you place on your own runs may not be equivalent to SDA standards. Nearly all runners place much higher standards on them selves than what SDA expects.
It might be worth noting that the previous version of this run (same category,) is 9 minutes slower, already accepted, and (presumably) sitting in the queue for processing.

https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_anniversary_edition__february_15th_2013.html
Edit history:
UraniumAnchor: 2013-04-25 12:26:20 pm
Not a walrus
Edit: Hmm, after checking it does have the money glitch, so I don't know why this one got rejected when the other one passed. Don't know enough about the game to speculate.
Edit history:
Heidrage: 2013-04-25 12:45:16 pm
Willing to teach you the impossible
Was that one segmented?

Edit: I clicked the link... nvm
Not a walrus
Nope, they're both SS far as I can tell.
sda loyalist
The older run has less tricks, but better luck.
Willing to teach you the impossible
I read that as less skill and more luck
Sea of Green
This isn't the first time a run that is faster has been rejected. If the time saved could be even more than this because of poor execution and luck, why not wait for a better run? Forgetting to use a useful item to kill (some) enemies faster is a BIG mistake, and to me that alone would be reject-worthy.
Edit history:
Melodia: 2013-04-25 01:55:41 pm
Quote from Heidrage:
Never played the game and im an hour into the run so far. The encounter rate is dumb. Unless this game has a spell or item that helps reduce them, I dont think they should be held against the runner. Sure, the fewer the better, but with no way of controlling them... that seems harsh.
.


The porblem is the encounter rate is consistently really bad the entire run compared to how it'd normally be. It's like with FFIX where they make a counter of random battles and around 60 is average (IIRC)....the CFL Marathon it was something like in the 80s (don't quote me on these numbers). Now I hardly could even guess what the numbers here are, but I'd say easily 20 maybe even 30 less encounters would make a good run....put about six run failures on Nightmares on top of that and you really save quite the chunk of time.
Edit history:
Heidrage: 2013-04-25 02:21:45 pm
Heidrage: 2013-04-25 02:08:33 pm
Willing to teach you the impossible
I have been on that end as well, I rejected a run that was much faster than what was published. But the reasons that are listed here are primary luck based, and the things that are not are but a few seconds here and there. Not a huge deal from what I see. I said I was not familiar with this game, and if I could be provided with a clear picture I would probably agree with the verifiers. If they missed something that would save 2 rounds in a fight that is at most 15 seconds lost. If they missed an item to proceed forward that waists 2 minutes, that is a huge difference. Also, even if a strat was not used, but still produced a faster run than was was accepted, why turn it away?

I am not arguing that the run should be accepted/rejected. I am arguing the standards at witch some verifiers hold when verifying runs.

Edit: I touched on a way to help improve the encounter rate issue. Ya, that was really bad and the runner is at fault for dealing with some of the encounters in a none efficient manner.

Edit2: Ill give an example of what I am talking about. https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/contra__april_22nd_2013.html

Not one verifier mentioned the the small faults that cost half to a full second (contra is a much shorter run, so they add up like the 10-15 seconds add up here). They only mentioned and stressed on the huge stuff that cost 2-4 seconds. If they were as harsh as this run was I feel it would have been rejected.
welcome to the machine
Quote:
   
Quote from Heidrage:
The encounter rate is dumb.

    ^
   
   
Quote:
But to the runner, being how high this encounter rate is, have you looked into your success rate of running vs time to kill enemies?

    I have. Generally speaking, running will always be the fastest course of action. For the most part, and MetaSigma can verify this, I'm a reactionary gamer. My first reaction in this game for just about every random battle is to try and run. In past attempts, I've tried to run from battles I know I cannot run from. There's battles that can be run from, but it is still very difficult, which is why I pick up the Black Garbs and Survival Vests in this run. Black Garbs give 10 agility points, Survival Vests give 15. But because of the item I need to start with, the Fighter will not ever be able to get those added points of agility, unless I swap out a member for another Fighter.
   
   
Quote:
It seems you have either a hard time running from some and just cant from others

    I do have a hard time running from many monsters, and I know why. For some reason, an enemy's agility is counted against you when you try to run. I'm not sure to what extent, but it is a factor.
    These are the agility values of the monsters I have a hard time running from:
    Bigeyes: 42, Sahagin: 36, Sahagin Chief: 39, Wyvern: 48, Nightmare: 66, Dark Wizard: 39, White Dragon: 60, Sahagin Prince*: 48, Chimera: 36, Guardian: 36, and Air Elemental: 72.
    *: If you get a Sahagin Prince/Sahagin Chief battle, you can't run from it anyway, since it's flagged that way.
    I would point out that my party's combined agility is 95 points higher than it would be without the equipment glitch. Three members get a 30 point boost, while the last gets a five point boost.
   
   
Quote:
would killing them be faster?

    In the case of Nightmare, it has 200 HP, and is weak to ice (go Black Robes!). My level 33 White Mage (about 25 intelligence) does about 160 damage to the Nightmares with Blizzara. Two casts of Blizzara would finish them off, which would take 7.6 seconds if the Nightmare(s) did not attack. One cast of Flare does enough to kill them, but if you only see one, it would be faster to physically attack, faster yet if the Thief does not attack, since his swing animation takes longer. I need to process all of this info in the split-second I see the battle pop up. Do I run? Do I fight? What do I use if I fight? I try to pick the option that hope yields the best results, and sometimes it works out, and sometimes it doesn't.
   
   
Quote:
I know some of the animations take a while, but a 5 second spell is better than 15-30 seconds of being hit for 1-2 points of dmg.

    Agreed. This is why ashe_bug and myself were throwing in route changes to lessen how much spell animation time is seen. Each Flare cast is 8 seconds, Blizzara is 3.8 seconds, and Fira is 5.2 seconds. Unfortunately, Fira's damage isn't high enough to take anything out, even with weakness thrown in. Also, starting with Dawn of Souls (the GBA remake), Intelligence is now factored into spell damage, so the mages can really shine. This is one reason I was considering using a Black Mage instead of a Red Mage, but I took the Red Mage for consistency purposes. A TAS or a segmented run would most likely use the Black Mage, though.
   
   
Quote:
Being I have only seen 1 puzzle so far, I dont think it was bad at all.

    In this case, I believe the criticism to be fair, since I normally do the puzzle about 5-7 seconds faster.
   
   
Quote from UraniumAnchor:
Nope, they're both SS far as I can tell.

    They are indeed single-segment.
   
   
Quote from Melodia:
The porblem is the encounter rate is consistently really bad the entire run compared to how it'd normally be.

    Glad you brought this up. The encounter rate is just consistently bad. In the run that was accepted, I had 272 battles overall, which includes randoms and forced. In this rejected run, I had 257 battles, which includes randoms and forced. Do 17 battles really mean a 9-minute difference? Well, yes and no. It's not just the number of battles, but what enemies are in those battles. More battles with stuff that is impossible/harder to run from, or just the sheer high number of monsters means you have to spend time to kill.
Quote from VorpalEdge:
Quote:
    Glad you brought this up. The encounter rate is just consistently bad. In the run that was accepted, I had 272 battles overall, which includes randoms and forced. In this rejected run, I had 257 battles, which includes randoms and forced. Do 17 battles really mean a 9-minute difference? Well, yes and no. It's not just the number of battles, but what enemies are in those battles. More battles with stuff that is impossible/harder to run from, or just the sheer high number of monsters means you have to spend time to kill.


This brings up a good point. Melodia, what is the sample size with which you base your claim that the average run of this game has 20 to 30 less encounters? Do you have any of those runs archived for viewing? How many runs have you looked at? In how many runs were the runners counting encounters?

The verifiers have pointed out other issues but there is a lack of context as to why these things are reject-worthy. For example, the first verifier mentions that the game has a high encounter rate, and wants to reject based on the number of encounters, but doesn't specifically call out an ideal number of encounters. Which bosses gave bad luck? What defines bad luck? The boss got to attack once, but used the quickest attack, is that a reset? Which ambushes took the longest to finish? How does this compare to the average run? How does it compare to the previous (accepted) run?

For the second verifier, I suspect he's only played a different version of the game, and not the one in question. He seems to use terminology and information that applies to only the other version. Why are multiple ambushes bad? Does the average run have 1 or less? What trolly things did the bosses do? Which bosses were trolls? Is there a run of this version that uses the strategies you mentioned? If not, how do you know they are still valid?

The third verifier is quite a bit better, at least as providing evidence. But why are you comparing to an impossible ideal? Are you holding out for the impossible run? You have 179 encounters listed and 9 ambushes. According to your data, he had a 5% ambush rate. That seems pretty reasonable to me, though I'm not familiar with the encounter mechanics of the game. However, you have these listed as mistakes. Is getting into a random encounter a mistake? Is getting into an ambush 2 mistakes? Why do you add up the time for the encounters with the amount of time of the mistakes in the encounters? Does that mean that those 9 ambushes are actually 3 minutes of mistakes? Or did the ambushes happen outside of random encounters? You can't count all of of the time spent in random encounters as a mistake, and then add anything that happened within the random encounters as a mistake. I imagine maybe the attack choice issues should still count, but the ambushes, the failures to run, and the hard to run away "mistakes" are definitely accounted for already in the random encounters section listed above them.

You want him to have 5 minutes less of encounters. The average encounter by the data you provided was 5 seconds. So you want him to have 60 less random encounters before you accept his run? That means he encountered 50% more encounters than acceptable. And yet he still managed to beat the previous WR by 9 minutes? That sounds like a hell of a lot of skill. Unless the previous WR is crap, in which case, what are you comparing to? A TAS wouldn't be able to complete the game without encounters. Sure, it could eliminate all those other numbers to 0, but asking for no encounters is completely unrealistic. Assuming that encounters AREN'T mistakes, then you're left with only 5:36 worth of mistakes. And if five minutes of random encounters are mistakes, it's about ten and a half. Even Siglemic has about 13 minutes of mistakes in a run of similar length.

Mercury, as pointed out in other comments in this thread, that mistake cost 13 seconds. Is that a reject to you, missing 13 seconds out of 97 minutes? Because I would think I could let 13 seconds slide in order to accept the best known run (the closest competitor that I can find is about half an hour behind him.) Besides, the item in question is actually in consideration for not even being in the route anymore.

Sorry about this big wall of text, but I'm trying to understand why this run is so bad. Because from what I can tell, it's not luck because the number of encounters is reduced by 15 over the previous iteration. Is it skill? It's barely quantified how much time was lost to factors within the runners control, with the exception of the black robe thing (13 seconds), the puzzle thing (6 seconds) and some extremely sketchy times listed in the third verifier's response. As an example, it has been noted that Flare costs 8 seconds, and Blizzara, the presumed replacement, costs 3.8 seconds. Thus each Flare that can be a Blizzara instead actually costs 4.2 seconds, or 42 seconds total for 10 Flares.

Please help me understand what specifically is wrong with this run that is outside the reasonable tolerance of error that would naturally be found in a realtime, console-produced speedrun. Thanks!
This run was rejected based on encounter rate? Why did encounter rate even factor into it? Aside from there being a hilariously large number of "forced" encounter tiles, the encounter rate of this game is absurd. Playing it casually, getting 4-5 encounters ALL within 20-30 steps is not impossible.. and not just once, either.

More than that, just surviving some of the encounters in a speed run is a challenge in and of itself. There can easily be times where you run into an encounter with 4-5 guys that all use their special attacks before you can do anything, and you just die right off the bat.

I haven't actually watched the run, but I can say for certain that personally I would not hold a bad encounter rate against the runner if everything else was fine, not in a single segment run anyways. This game is an RNG nightmare.
Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner
This run was rejected by some people who didn't fully understand the game they were verifying, and others who rejected it because of what is essentially too many random encounters outside of the runners control. The run beats the previously submitted one by a huge chunk of time, and gets rejected. So enlighten me, what new game breaking trick was discovered in the timeframe between the previous run and this one? This run was gotten only approximately one month after the previous run was accepted.
Fucking Weeaboo
As somebody who's done FFAE glitched runs, I should have stepped up and verified this. I will say, the time is extremely impressive. Seeing that the verifiers rejected it makes me wonder...what were they smoking?!

Quote:
losing 13 seconds because of forgetting you have something (also runners fault)


You're upset over THIRTEEN seconds in a 89 minute run? That's 0.2% of the run.

Quote:
Also, you could have used BANE sword on Chaos, the 4 rematches and Kary 1st battle, which would have put it into the accept pile.


IDIOT. This is the PSP version. BANE was fixed along with the 19 million other bugs from the NES version.

Quote:
179 random encounters ~ 14:55
9 ambushes ~  1:30
11 failures to run ~  1:50
10 casts of Flare ~  1:00
2 casts of Blizzaga ~  0:06
15 melee kills ~  0:45
6 unnecessary menu uses ~  0:10
3 hard to run away ~  0:15
TOTAL ~ 20:31


Ignoring random encounters and ambuhes, that cuts out 16:25 out of that. The rest of that is minor and I wonder if it just relates to dealing with random encounters. The runner is NOT going to be able to run from every single fight. Not in FF1. Not a chance in hell.

I'm gonna watch this myself, but I will say I'm disappointed in the verifiers right now. I'm also disappointed in myself for not stepping up and taking this one.
I didn't submit to verify because I've never played the PSP version.

I wonder if there is legitimate reason to include a "runner's challenge" to a rejected speed run if they feel there is legitimate reason to re-verify a run with different verifiers? Obviously, this challenge would need to pass certain checks to ensure that the challenge is, in fact, legitimate and not just a "second chance" as it were, but it sounds like this one would absolutely qualify for that.
Willing to teach you the impossible
^^ One check on this could be if the community blows up a thread like this.
And a deterrent could be that if a runner "challenges" a run, and it gets rejected again, they cannot do another challenge for x amount of time.
Fucking Weeaboo
Ok, I've watched the run, start to finish. As a former runner of this game (and even this category) but not THE runner, I'm EMBARRASSED at the verifiers. For shame.

This run is VERY well done. Are there lots of random encounters? Yes, but this is an old school FF game. It's gonna happen.
Are there small mistakes here and there? Yes, but we're human. Mistakes will happen.
Are there any major mistakes? No.
Is there any cheating? No.
Are there any video issues? No.
Should this have been accepted? HELL YES. This run was well executed from start to finish, including an AMAZING Chaos fight.

Also, Maralith 1 in ONE HIT?! DAMN MAN. SHOW HER SOME MERCY.
Willing to teach you the impossible
Have any other players watched it yet? I would like to know what others would say.
Edit history:
Tiberius: 2013-04-25 09:50:38 pm
Make it so.
Right, first off I think I owe and explanation as to why I didn't offer to verify this run. Basically it comes down to: while I have played this game, I am unfamiliar with running it. I have no idea how the glitches work. I have no idea of the route. And on top of that, I am considerably *more* familiar with both the PSone and GBA versions.

So essentially all I feel I can comment on are the generalities of this run.

My opinion on the encounter luck: Average, nothing more nothing less. This game has horrendously high encounter rates and not only that, the important thing is what monsters it decides to throw at you. I've seen better but I've seen a lot worse too. For example the Sahagin Prince/Chieftain: I've had like 4 of those encs appear per level of Kraken's lair.

My opinion on the boss luck: Seemed pretty excellent from what I know of that game, although I've obviously not gone through with the enhancements from the equipment shenanigans.

My opinion on the runner mistakes: Yeah there are a few, but they are worth extremely minor amounts of time over the course of the run, the black robes bit costing literally 10 seconds.


So yeah, this run is not perfect. But it seems pretty close to it in my opinion. At the very least good enough to be on SDA.
I will watch this run and weigh in myself.