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i found some must-know thing. if you leave strip after dealing with benny, but without meeting that ncr soldier (who gives you the ambassador's note), you will be an enemy of ncr. i made my way through strip swinging my fists (because i didn't want to start a conversation with him), but as soon as i left it, i found myself declared as a terrorist (thus i will be shot on sight, which is pretty damn bad).
oh, just finished run following nocti's route. saveloaded a lot. time is 40.27 Smiley
who will be the first to get 3x:xx?
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from 5tr1k3r:
Quote from nocti:
kill benny at the way in his room easyly with the laser gun and talk to yes man

i managed to kill benny in his suite only, too hard to do it with 4 guards around him (hardcore, normal difficulty). i wonder what i do wrong
edit: damn, it's easy

Is killing him really quicker then being a woman and doing the black widow dialog, how do you get him in his room a gun?

good time, sda time would probably make it a minute or two quicker too, what was your time on the last autosave?
if you talk to the 2nd hand of tops (the guys at the front enter the tops) you can make benny go in his room alone (45) speech there are no guards if you run fast into the elevator then sneek attack and some hits in his head and hope for crits. thats all.
at hover dam you can fall into the water swim along the dam and fly/jump on the mountain (with flying trick) so you can skip easyly the controll computer part for yes man.
the game intro and beeing in menu mode counts as game time and i think, loading is game time too it would help to have a fast pc and keep this sort of time low. is there a way to boost your speed with explosions or holding/putting items in right places. like in hl 1 or bio shock.
Quote from error1:
Is killing him really quicker then being a woman and doing the black widow dialog, how do you get him in his room a gun?

I didn't  test that black widow thing, but it obviously requires entering presidential suite with benny.
My route is simple: talk to greeter -> run to stairs getting 1000 xp -> 45 survival, rest in speech, perks "confirmed bachelor" (for damage) and "travel light" -> talk to swank and get your weapons back -> go to benny and kill him (without starting conversation) in vats with weathered 10 mm pistol (you can kill him right in vats pretty often, though he has a lot of hp, as i see) -> take all his items -> go to yes man. His bodyguards aren't gonna deal much damage to you, especially if you wear that nice leather armor with DT of 8. However they will follow you to benny's room, and you will face those two shooting guys on your way back.
About timing: autosave at the tops is 11.37. And autosave after elevator (after dealing with benny, on the way to yes man) is 12.51. It will be much faster to kill benny without vats, but also much harder - i was too lazy to bother, it was only a third test run Smiley

Quote from error1:
good time, sda time would probably make it a minute or two quicker too, what was your time on the last autosave?

Last autosave is at Legate's Camp, and it's time is 38.29.
I highly doubt about cutting off 1-2 minutes though. I was simply abusing save&load Smiley Found that save&load while someone talking to you (non-conversation mode) causes skipping his current sentence (i guess everybody found it two years ago though :D). Also it saves a lot of time just after getting xp, when you're about to level up. I think it can't be abused through legit and normal run, as there's penalty of half a second for each save, and it's simply too annoying to record with. But you never know.

Quote from nocti:
at hover dam you can fall into the water swim along the dam and fly/jump on the mountain (with flying trick) so you can skip easyly the controll computer part for yes man.

I guess this way is slower than just straight climbing the wall, but it's more safe (there's no heavy fire). Am i right?
As for me, i won't be using that flying trick in the near future - too hard for me. But maybe i will change my opinion.

Quote from nocti:
the game intro and beeing in menu mode counts as game time and i think, loading is game time too it would help to have a fast pc and keep this sort of time low

Oh yeah, i think all that stuff counts too, even loading time. That sucks.
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-11 03:18:23 pm
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from nocti:
the game intro and beeing in menu mode counts as game time and i think, loading is game time too it would help to have a fast pc and keep this sort of time low. is there a way to boost your speed with explosions or holding/putting items in right places. like in hl 1 or bio shock.

Loading time and menus are not counted in sda time, if you look at my fallout 3 run sda time is 3:21 faster then ingame time. Also keep in mind that timing ends when you loose control of your character even if stuff happens after that, so the final conversation won't count for the time

Quote from nocti:
at hover dam you can fall into the water swim along the dam and fly/jump on the mountain (with flying trick) so you can skip easyly the controll computer part for yes man.

what is the controll computer part?

Quote from 5tr1k3r:
I didn't  test that black widow thing, but it obviously requires entering presidential suite with benny.

no you go to his room and have sex with him. You don't need to get your weapons, just talk to benny, he gives you his room key, go to his bed and wait an hour for him to get there, then kill him in his sleep ( it's a dialog choice). The main advantage being you don't need to run back to the entrance, don't need to equip anything, save stims, but you do need to talk to benny twice and use the wait command.
Quote from error1:
Loading time and menus are not counted in sda time, if you look at my fallout 3 run sda time is 3:21 faster then ingame time. Also keep in mind that timing ends when you loose control of your character even if stuff happens after that, so the final conversation won't count for the time

Yes, we got it, he told about game time, not sda time. What do you mean by final conversation? Conversation with yes man? Ok then, it's fair, though it's only a couple of seconds Smiley

Quote from error1:
what is the controll computer part?

I think he meant installing the override chip with following destroying of the dam. Actually, he said what you said before:
Quote:
It looks like the only place the air jumping will be useful is that first jump in the video during the last quest, to avoid going to the basement and blowing up the generators. You can enter Legate's Camp normally and finish the game at that point.


Quote from error1:
no you go to his room and have sex with him. You don't need to get your weapons, just talk to benny, he gives you his room key, go to his bed and wait an hour for him to get there, then kill him in his sleep ( it's a dialog choice). The main advantage being you don't need to run back to the entrance, don't need to equip anything, save stims, but you do need to talk to benny twice and use the wait command.

Ah, ok. I will test it. Looks like it's either a little faster or of the same time as killing benny right in casino without vats.
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
I'm not sure why you would jump in the water then
Sda time will probably end at the start of the conversation with the general, if you knock the general off the tower I don't think you regain control afterwords. It doesn't really change the way you play it, it just makes the last autosave a better time comparison then the start of the credits.
How many stims did you use? I'm thinking you could probably get by with just the starting four and the two on the shelf, that way you can spend all the time pushing the doc to get him into position a few seconds faster.
What was the trick for the bos part, I used the punching trick to get by him, then changed rooms and pick-pocketed him, but I guess you managed to pickpocket him without the attack trick.
Really interesting that you can't skip the ncr guy, I guess the game assumes you killed him before he got a chance to talk to you
Edit history:
5tr1k3r: 2010-11-12 01:23:34 am
5tr1k3r: 2010-11-11 11:51:26 pm
Quote from error1:
Sda time will probably end at the start of the conversation with the general, if you knock the general off the tower I don't think you regain control afterwords

Yes, you don't regain control in that case afterwards. But only in that, in other cases you can even run away from yes man.

Quote from error1:
It doesn't really change the way you play it, it just makes the last autosave a better time comparison then the start of the credits.

That does for sure, i agree.

Quote from error1:
How many stims did you use?

I had 19 stims and 5 superstims at the start. Used one superstim in the tops and 5 stims at the hoover dam (antimateriel rifle's shots are pretty painful, i must say). Had plenty of health by legate's camp, crippled arm and almost crippled leg.

Quote from error1:
I'm thinking you could probably get by with just the starting four and the two on the shelf, that way you can spend all the time pushing the doc to get him into position a few seconds faster.

That won't save too much time. Constant saveloading while he talks saves much more.
And i think you're right - 6 stims are enough.
By the way, my first autosave time is 3.24, what's yours? Gonna improve it anyway.
edit: oops, i meant not the first autosave time, but the autosave time just after exiting doc's house. btw improved it, 2.37 oO

Quote from error1:
What was the trick for the bos part, I used the punching trick to get by him, then changed rooms and pick-pocketed him, but I guess you managed to pickpocket him without the attack trick.

Trick was simple - i pickpocketed one of the two bos guards (they're opening doors), he easily allowed me to do that Smiley Pickpocketed him, and ran back to the door, opened it, took a shot at bos paladin (or knight, don't remember) and ran away. Quest won't be completed without that shot.

Quote from error1:
Really interesting that you can't skip the ncr guy, I guess the game assumes you killed him before he got a chance to talk to you

Hehe yeah, developers didn't realize you can skip him without killing Smiley
Hm, I managed to make first Goodsprings autosave in 2.33. I was abusing that saveload talking-skipping thing (glitch?), and managed to push doc while he walked to couch himself.
I grabbed those stims on the shelf and after autosave there're 12 stims and 3 superstims in the inventory.
Am I allowed to use DLC such as packs (I have tribal, mercenary, classic and caravan packs - just checked in menu)? They add some helpful items, and exactly because of them there're so many stims at the start.
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-12 06:36:57 am
error1: 2010-11-12 06:33:57 am
error1: 2010-11-12 05:55:52 am
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from 5tr1k3r:
Am I allowed to use DLC such as packs (I have tribal, mercenary, classic and caravan packs - just checked in menu)? They add some helpful items, and exactly because of them there're so many stims at the start.

that's a good question
http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/dlc_rules_question.html
dlc yes, preorder dlc mike is undecided
I was waiting for an answer before I did a real test run
How did you get three packs?
I downloaded the rest to see what they are.
After reading that thread my opinion on preorder dlc has slightly changed - I think, these packs should not be used in real sda run after all. Good thing there's no problem in removing them.
Is there something new you can tell us about speedrun and your progress there, error1?
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
I guess I'll just do a run assuming it's banned, shouldn't make much time difference in a segmented run anyway
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-22 05:49:11 am
error1: 2010-11-22 03:34:56 am
error1: 2010-11-22 03:31:04 am
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
there is a lot of refinement to be done but I just want to make sure I get the rout down
ok I have some times now
3:17 for good springs autosave, you're going to have to tell me where I wasted 44 seconds
seems no matter how you answer the test you always get a weapon skill
11:40 autosave on entering the tops
12:35 autosave after going up the elevator
13:26 autosave on coming down the elevator
it feels like a quick way of doing it, killing him with a 9mm is much harder then killing him with a grenade rifle
I'm going to try talking to the ncr guy without talking to the other two, shouldn't be hard
edit: I need to re encode the video, u2b didn't like it
Why you dont use shortcut key for quickload?
Is this normal difficulty level?
Can you start final conversation with doc right after moving from couch?
Right when you get to strip you can jump in stairs (instead of running around). Can save 1 second.
At white glove you can speak with guy at third room, no need to speak with woman. You only need to start conversation and say good by.
And jump! This save time when moving uphill or downhill. On strait line jumping dont get any benefits.
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-23 08:20:12 pm
error1: 2010-11-23 08:18:04 pm
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Quote from Enotus:
Why you dont use shortcut key for quickload?

it's for verification purposes, there's no way to tell if I'm loading from the same save that I quicksaved, or even that I quicksaved because it doesn't show up if there is already text in the top left.
Quote:
Is this normal difficulty level?

yes
Quote:
Can you start final conversation with doc right after moving from couch?
idk, I didn't think you could start it, he automatically starts it when he reaches the door. edit: yes you can thanks, that's why this is a test run

Quote:
Right when you get to strip you can jump in stairs (instead of running around). Can save 1 second.

yah I saw that when re-watching

Quote:
At white glove you can speak with guy at third room, no need to speak with woman. You only need to start conversation and say good by

the cannibal guy at the desk? I thought I tried that, I'll do another check, I think white glove would be better after benny, even the path is a little longer you move 10% quicker. I need to test it.

From my testing I couldn't conclusively tell if jumping was faster up or down hill but it couldn't hurt, have you checked it with the travel light perk?
Quote from error1:
Quote:
Is this normal difficulty level?
yes
I recommend making run on hard difficulty. No so big difference, but more entertainment. And you must take root on hill wall at beginning. Bees will kill you otherwise.

Quote from error1:
the cannibal guy at the desk? I thought I tried that, I'll do another check,
I tried.

Quote from error1:
From my testing I couldn't conclusively tell if jumping was faster up or down hill but it couldn't hurt, have you checked it with the travel light perk?
Basic principle - moving speed is constant in all directions, jumping add independent vertical speed. So if after jump you land higher, your total speed will be higher. I only not sure about downhill.
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-24 12:04:27 am
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
I don't see how a high difficulty would make the run faster
I would still take the same path, I just might use a bunch of stims, It's possible to get through there without being hit with some luck manipulation and abusing the enemy pathing
Besides you can change difficulty at anytime through the menu so difficulty isn't a valid category for this game, if there was a bunch of combat and exp mattered it would probably be worth it to constantly change the difficulty so you fight very easy enemies and get very hard exp

I suspect jumping speed is semi independent of normal movement speed, it's something I'll test. From my testing going from goodsprings auto save the cemetery hill, jumping save at most .01 seconds and that's within my margin of error
Now it's Sui^^
Quote from error1:
I suspect jumping speed is semi independent of normal movement speed, it's something I'll test. From my testing going from goodsprings auto save the cemetery hill, jumping save at most .01 seconds and that's within my margin of error


Nah... the only thing in which jumping can help, is that it prevents you from stucking at obstacles/props etc. but it doesn't really make the run faster... and it may kinda make the run a little more interesting to watch I guess, since it's not dull moving from point to point, but it overall it doesn't give any advantage.
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
part 2
In gomorrah you need to take last answer and you will auto exit. Save 1-2 seconds.
BOS section.
Why you kill scorpions? Why you dont steal key from nearest guy? Why you dont first open door with key, then shoot while door is opening? Why you dont descover black mountain after exiting bunker (i think fast travel will cost you more than just running little longer path)?
Edit history:
error1: 2010-11-25 11:42:22 pm
error1: 2010-11-25 11:42:01 pm
error1: 2010-11-25 09:40:33 pm
error1: 2010-11-25 09:40:00 pm
Not a Zelda 2 refrence
Thanks for the questions

Quote from Enotus:
In gomorrah you need to take last answer and you will auto exit. Save 1-2 seconds.

I didn't think that fulfilled the quest
Quote from Enotus:
BOS section.
Why you kill scorpions?

I wasn't able to fast travel after I left the bunker because they where too close, I know you can do it sometimes, it may just require doing the quests in a different order idk
Quote:
Why you dont steal key from nearest guy? Why you dont first open door with key, then shoot while door is opening? Why you dont descover black mountain after exiting bunker (i think fast travel will cost you more than just running little longer path)?

there seems to be some randomness on who comes out sooner, on previous test the guy I picked was ahead, I could have taken less damage from the bos guys, not sure how important that will be

Edit: I forgot to address the fast travel, loading times are removed for SDA PC games beacuse they can be so variable, so if a fast travel moves you at least 10 feet in the right direction it's worth it