Dragon Age: Inquistion

2015-01-13 03:38:28 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

Yeah, I don't really think cutting the fade-touched obsidian is a good idea, just thought i'd mention one more thing you could theoretically change about the route that could theoretically save time (under the best of circumstances).

Another problem with Cassandra is that even if we stuck with her for the whole time after crafting weapons we still would waste time because we'd need to get an extra influence level to get the warrior schematics perk, which we currently can skip out on by going with only rogues and mages. There is no possible route where we have no rogues, and I think no mages would also be bad (you'd have to go with something like Cassandra, warrior inquisitor, sera, and varric, since cole wastes time)

Hauwlyn

2015-01-13 05:01:54 pm

No mage would clearly be bad, this schematic issue is a real pain. Especially since warriors would provide not only more safety for sera through aggro management(AI is actually decent at that), but most importantly upgraded Horn of Valor would tremendously quicken all the fights where thousand cuts is used, but is not quite enough to clear the whole fight, most of them as I see it on your runs.

I'll need to check it, but I think the damage increase from Horn of Valor actually applies before flat armor reduction, which means the damage increase is actually more than 35% on physical damage.

I also seem to notice that both of you don't use Dispel to damage barriers. Why is that? Considering upgraded Dispel & a potential spell purge from Cassandra for barriers and shield bash for guards, I'm still really not convinced about Vivienne being essential all throughout the post-Skyhold phase, if at all.

letterswords

2015-01-13 05:37:19 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

Lack of dispel usage is mostly an oversight on my part, haven't done enough runs to get all my combat strategies down (I'd assume same goes for DashingSplash). As far as Vivienne goes, I don't have a ton else to say beyond what i said previously, other than maybe that Spirit Blade has no cooldown versus Shield Bash having a cool down, plus spirit blade being good versus barriers and guard and doing spirit damage, which is advantageous in a lot of situations. Also, I honestly think Vivienne just has way better survivability than Cassandra as she can generate a ton of barrier really fast (upgraded fade cloak and running into a group of enemies works wonders). Cassandra already seems pretty squishy in the parts we use her, and that will only become more prominent later in the game, especially since her damage mitigation is more dependent on armor+shield (which she would either have very bad ones or we'd have to waste even more time crafting that). And like I said before, I am mostly directly controlling Vivienne so the AI issues aren't a problem really, just not having a true taunt ability I guess.

Hauwlyn

Edit history:

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-14 01:07:36 am

2015-01-14 12:58:57 am

I conducted a few tests on those Thousand cuts tricks. Here are the results.

This shows that double Flask of Lightning works for added damage, and that therefore Triple Flask gives quite a lot of increased damage. Note that my damage output makes armor values negligeable, despite the fact I had removed my armor and replaced one of my daggers with a rather crappy one. This might not be the case in speedrun conditions, in which case increased damage might be even more of an improvement than shown on this video.

DashingSplash

2015-01-14 02:16:17 am

Quote from Hauwlyn:

No mage would clearly be bad, this schematic issue is a real pain. Especially since warriors would provide not only more safety for sera through aggro management(AI is actually decent at that), but most importantly upgraded Horn of Valor would tremendously quicken all the fights where thousand cuts is used, but is not quite enough to clear the whole fight, most of them as I see it on your runs.

I'll need to check it, but I think the damage increase from Horn of Valor actually applies before flat armor reduction, which means the damage increase is actually more than 35% on physical damage.

I also seem to notice that both of you don't use Dispel to damage barriers. Why is that? Considering upgraded Dispel & a potential spell purge from Cassandra for barriers and shield bash for guards, I'm still really not convinced about Vivienne being essential all throughout the post-Skyhold phase, if at all.

As I mentioned, we would need to try different builds and classes out. Just ought to mention that getting a specialization for the inquisitor is out of the question (since it takes too much time), unless we find a way to get it almost instantly. But, the warrior is a great idea; especially with the Horn of Valor. (: Good thing you came along and started to look more closely on the class builds etc. So far we have only been focusing on routing, finding skips, and glitches. And, you seem to do very well in the combat regards! öwö/

Hmm, will have to work on my usage of dispel a bit more. I do use it on rifts, and I knew it worked on barriers, but I suppose it should be used more. Such as Temple of Mythal boss, and Corypheus.

The reason as to why we use Vivienne is because of her damage against regular mobs, her damage against barriers, and her damage output regenerates her barrier. Sure, Cassandra (with good items) would do plenty on guard, but the problem is: we use tier 2 weapons in this new route, and our armor is...Well, we never equip any new armor. The problem with writing about it, and actually doing it in a run, is quite the difference; that's not to say that what you are talking about won't work, but that it needs to be tested, and I'ven't had much time for any testing as of lately. Try a few runs out, and see what you can come up with in regards to party memebers and what specs might be best. Just remember that for any new party member we would have to dupe more items etc. So, make sure the time duping isn't more than what we save from combat.

One thing that would be neat would be to have a way to glitch charging bull to work for as long as one would want (longer than intended).

One thing we can get early on really easy without losing any time (only 2 seconds) is the sweetish finger for Cassandra (70-80 dps). Other than that, it's duping as far as I can tell.

[quote="Hauwlyn"]No mage would clearly be bad, this schematic issue is a real pain. Especially since warriors would provide not only more safety for sera through aggro management(AI is actually decent at that), but most importantly upgraded Horn of Valor would tremendously quicken all the fights where thousand cuts is used, but is not quite enough to clear the whole fight, most of them as I see it on your runs.

I'll need to check it, but I think the damage increase from Horn of Valor actually applies before flat armor reduction, which means the damage increase is actually more than 35% on physical damage.

I also seem to notice that both of you don't use Dispel to damage barriers. Why is that? Considering upgraded Dispel & a potential spell purge from Cassandra for barriers and shield bash for guards, I'm still really not convinced about Vivienne being essential all throughout the post-Skyhold phase, if at all.[/quote]

As I mentioned, we would need to try different builds and classes out. Just ought to mention that getting a specialization for the inquisitor is out of the question (since it takes too much time), unless we find a way to get it almost instantly. But, the warrior is a great idea; especially with the Horn of Valor. (: Good thing you came along and started to look more closely on the class builds etc. So far we have only been focusing on routing, finding skips, and glitches. And, you seem to do very well in the combat regards! öwö/

Hmm, will have to work on my usage of dispel a bit more. I do use it on rifts, and I knew it worked on barriers, but I suppose it should be used more. Such as Temple of Mythal boss, and Corypheus.

The reason as to why we use Vivienne is because of her damage against regular mobs, her damage against barriers, and her damage output regenerates her barrier. Sure, Cassandra (with good items) would do plenty on guard, but the problem is: we use tier 2 weapons in this new route, and our armor is...Well, we never equip any new armor. The problem with writing about it, and actually doing it in a run, is quite the difference; that's not to say that what you are talking about won't work, but that it needs to be tested, and I'ven't had much time for any testing as of lately. Try a few runs out, and see what you can come up with in regards to party memebers and what specs might be best. Just remember that for any new party member we would have to dupe more items etc. So, make sure the time duping isn't more than what we save from combat.

One thing that would be neat would be to have a way to glitch charging bull to work for as long as one would want (longer than intended).

One thing we can get early on really easy without losing any time (only 2 seconds) is the sweetish finger for Cassandra (70-80 dps). Other than that, it's duping as far as I can tell.

DashingSplash

Edit history:

DashingSplash: 2015-01-14 02:27:26 am

2015-01-14 02:23:50 am

Quote from Hauwlyn:

I conducted a few tests on those Thousand cuts tricks. Here are the results.

This shows that double Flask of Lightning works for added damage, and that therefore Triple Flask gives quite a lot of increased damage. Note that my damage output makes armor values negligeable, despite the fact I had removed my armor and replaced one of my daggers with a rather crappy one. This might not be the case in speedrun conditions, in which case increased damage might be even more of an improvement than shown on this video.

That's really nice~! (:

Do you know if the weakened status only makes the mobs do less damage, or does it also increase incoming damage on the mob? Also, we might want to get the regeneration potion for Sera aswell as it increases her damage output...Perhaps the Lyrium potion is quick enough to grab aswell for the amount of time it saves, or is there some other potion that's faster to grab that's better than the Lyrium potion? How much more damage would it do when we use a Tier 2 weapon and wear the armor you wear in the beginning of the game? This could probably be tested with just regeneration potion, and then also together with the Lyrium potion (or an alternative potion).

[quote="Hauwlyn"]I conducted a few tests on those Thousand cuts tricks. Here are the results.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rczfpsjq-4k[/url]

This shows that double Flask of Lightning works for added damage, and that therefore Triple Flask gives quite a lot of increased damage. Note that my damage output makes armor values negligeable, despite the fact I had removed my armor and replaced one of my daggers with a rather crappy one. This might not be the case in speedrun conditions, in which case increased damage might be even more of an improvement than shown on this video.[/quote]

That's really nice~! (:

Do you know if the weakened status only makes the mobs do less damage, or does it also increase incoming damage on the mob? Also, we might want to get the regeneration potion for Sera aswell as it increases her damage output...Perhaps the Lyrium potion is quick enough to grab aswell for the amount of time it saves, or is there some other potion that's faster to grab that's better than the Lyrium potion? How much more damage would it do when we use a Tier 2 weapon and wear the armor you wear in the beginning of the game? This could probably be tested with just regeneration potion, and then also together with the Lyrium potion (or an alternative potion).

letterswords

2015-01-14 09:10:54 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

Regeneration potion is fastest I think , you get it when you first talk to the apothecary. We'd need to get some elfroot to make them, but that should be easy--its sold by crossroads merchant iirc.

Hauwlyn

2015-01-14 06:20:45 pm

I believe an upgraded spell purge might one shot any barrier in the game. I might test it myself, yes, but as I was mentioning on letters' stream yesterday, I have a SATA1 HDD, so I won't really ever try to actually speedrun the game. If spell purge can one shot any barrier, and spell purge+shield bash can one shot any guard, then there's no question that, when comparing combat, Cassandra would be a great improvement over Vivienne in terms of speed.
This is especially true if the addition of Horn of Valour let's Sera one shot every encounter without the need to clean up a few survivors, which seems quite likely with an additional 35% damage. As I was saying, the need for survival is lessened the shorter the fight is, so I believe that w/ Cassandra there would be even less need for armor than with Vivienne.

I'll probably test this all out myself at some point, but I'm midway through a nightmare playthrough and I don't want some glitch to ruin my achievement run if I suddenly start a casual difficulty playthrough, so I can only provide theories and tests done on my nightmare character for now.

I believe an upgraded spell purge might one shot any barrier in the game. I might test it myself, yes, but as I was mentioning on letters' stream yesterday, I have a SATA1 HDD, so I won't really ever try to actually speedrun the game. If spell purge can one shot any barrier, and spell purge+shield bash can one shot any guard, then there's no question that, when comparing combat, Cassandra would be a great improvement over Vivienne in terms of speed.
This is especially true if the addition of Horn of Valour let's Sera one shot every encounter without the need to clean up a few survivors, which seems quite likely with an additional 35% damage. As I was saying, the need for survival is lessened the shorter the fight is, so I believe that w/ Cassandra there would be even less need for armor than with Vivienne.

I'll probably test this all out myself at some point, but I'm midway through a nightmare playthrough and I don't want some glitch to ruin my achievement run if I suddenly start a casual difficulty playthrough, so I can only provide theories and tests done on my nightmare character for now.

letterswords

Edit history:

letterswords: 2015-01-14 11:13:13 pm

2015-01-14 11:11:21 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

One thing to consider though as far as combat speed is that most of the boss encounters can only be done so fast. You were in my stream yesterday, so you definitely noticed it was already fairly obvious on Calpernia (she can only take damage in certain chunks) and somewhat obvious on Corypheus (since I overdamaged him and broke the transition to the Red lyrium dragon and softlocked the game). So really, it might actually be worse/no better in some areas to have Cassandra solely because her damage increases make a negligible difference or risks a softlock. Also, I don't believe I accurately accomplished it in my stream yesterday, but I do believe the Nightmare Demon also works in a somewhat similar way to Calpernia, my damage output there just wasn't high enough due to not abusing flasks and such, but I could be wrong. At that point, the main reason to bring along Cassandra over Vivienne is to take the guard off the red lyrium dragon (since we can just get dispel on the inquisitor) and maybe take down the dragon a bit faster, and I don't entirely think that would make up for the amount of extra time we'd spend getting an additional set of schematics for Cassandra, but I guess it'll need to be tested. I guess her damage/other bonuses would be useful on Winter Palace fights, too.

Hauwlyn

2015-01-14 11:55:44 pm

Sorry about all those wild speculations of mine, I'll be patient and test it myself soon enough anyway.

We should probably make some notes on the skill builds for each character, it can cause some minor time losses when done on the fly and some useful skill is missing.

DashingSplash

Edit history:

DashingSplash: 2015-01-15 02:53:55 am

2015-01-15 02:53:39 am

Quote from Hauwlyn:

I believe an upgraded spell purge might one shot any barrier in the game. I might test it myself, yes, but as I was mentioning on letters' stream yesterday, I have a SATA1 HDD, so I won't really ever try to actually speedrun the game. If spell purge can one shot any barrier, and spell purge+shield bash can one shot any guard, then there's no question that, when comparing combat, Cassandra would be a great improvement over Vivienne in terms of speed.
This is especially true if the addition of Horn of Valour let's Sera one shot every encounter without the need to clean up a few survivors, which seems quite likely with an additional 35% damage. As I was saying, the need for survival is lessened the shorter the fight is, so I believe that w/ Cassandra there would be even less need for armor than with Vivienne.

I'll probably test this all out myself at some point, but I'm midway through a nightmare playthrough and I don't want some glitch to ruin my achievement run if I suddenly start a casual difficulty playthrough, so I can only provide theories and tests done on my nightmare character for now.

It doesn't matter what your loading times are, we are timing the loading screens and then we subtract the time from our RTA after the run is finished. True, SATA 1 would have longer loading times than my SATA 2, but not that much slower, right? IIrc, most 7200RPM HDDs top out at around 130 MB/s, right? So, there should be no difference between my 7200RPM HDD and your 7200RPM HDD.

Cassandra might be the best choice, depending on how much damage (outside of guard) that she can consistently do. Vivienne got a pretty good damage output overall, and towards the later levels we can certainly get her Spell Purge. Now, we still have to try plenty of things when it comes to the combat part. We do use Cassandra pre-Skyhold, and she works quite well for survivability, but the damage output is poor.

Quote from Hauwlyn:

Sorry about all those wild speculations of mine, I'll be patient and test it myself soon enough anyway.

We should probably make some notes on the skill builds for each character, it can cause some minor time losses when done on the fly and some useful skill is missing.

Don't worry about speculating! You bring up valid questions, and it makes me and Letterswords ponder about things that we might not have looked at. Some we already have, but some of the things are really good to consider.

Quote from letterswords:

One thing to consider though as far as combat speed is that most of the boss encounters can only be done so fast. You were in my stream yesterday, so you definitely noticed it was already fairly obvious on Calpernia (she can only take damage in certain chunks) and somewhat obvious on Corypheus (since I overdamaged him and broke the transition to the Red lyrium dragon and softlocked the game). So really, it might actually be worse/no better in some areas to have Cassandra solely because her damage increases make a negligible difference or risks a softlock. Also, I don't believe I accurately accomplished it in my stream yesterday, but I do believe the Nightmare Demon also works in a somewhat similar way to Calpernia, my damage output there just wasn't high enough due to not abusing flasks and such, but I could be wrong. At that point, the main reason to bring along Cassandra over Vivienne is to take the guard off the red lyrium dragon (since we can just get dispel on the inquisitor) and maybe take down the dragon a bit faster, and I don't entirely think that would make up for the amount of extra time we'd spend getting an additional set of schematics for Cassandra, but I guess it'll need to be tested. I guess her damage/other bonuses would be useful on Winter Palace fights, too.

The Nightmare demon can actually be killed with enough damage the 2nd time he appears, I do believe he did so in my first run that's available on Twitch. So, that would save some hassle, as that fight took quite a while with tier 2 weapons (I used Dorian though).

I would have to agree, the only time that Cassandra looks really promising is the Red Lyrium Fight, and that might save at most a minute with the tier 2 weapons. Takes longer to grab decent weapons for Cassandra. But, it will have to be tested. Afterall, a combo-wombo (without potions and Horn of Valor) takes down a Prime Demon (which, we only fight once post-Haven).

[quote="Hauwlyn"]I believe an upgraded spell purge might one shot any barrier in the game. I might test it myself, yes, but as I was mentioning on letters' stream yesterday, I have a SATA1 HDD, so I won't really ever try to actually speedrun the game. If spell purge can one shot any barrier, and spell purge+shield bash can one shot any guard, then there's no question that, when comparing combat, Cassandra would be a great improvement over Vivienne in terms of speed.
This is especially true if the addition of Horn of Valour let's Sera one shot every encounter without the need to clean up a few survivors, which seems quite likely with an additional 35% damage. As I was saying, the need for survival is lessened the shorter the fight is, so I believe that w/ Cassandra there would be even less need for armor than with Vivienne.

I'll probably test this all out myself at some point, but I'm midway through a nightmare playthrough and I don't want some glitch to ruin my achievement run if I suddenly start a casual difficulty playthrough, so I can only provide theories and tests done on my nightmare character for now.[/quote]

It doesn't matter what your loading times are, we are timing the loading screens and then we subtract the time from our RTA after the run is finished. True, SATA 1 would have longer loading times than my SATA 2, but not that much slower, right? IIrc, most 7200RPM HDDs top out at around 130 MB/s, right? So, there should be no difference between my 7200RPM HDD and your 7200RPM HDD.

Cassandra might be the best choice, depending on how much damage (outside of guard) that she can consistently do. Vivienne got a pretty good damage output overall, and towards the later levels we can certainly get her Spell Purge. Now, we still have to try plenty of things when it comes to the combat part. We do use Cassandra pre-Skyhold, and she works quite well for survivability, but the damage output is poor.

[quote="Hauwlyn"]Sorry about all those wild speculations of mine, I'll be patient and test it myself soon enough anyway.

We should probably make some notes on the skill builds for each character, it can cause some minor time losses when done on the fly and some useful skill is missing.[/quote]

Don't worry about speculating! You bring up valid questions, and it makes me and Letterswords ponder about things that we might not have looked at. Some we already have, but some of the things are really good to consider.

[quote="letterswords"]One thing to consider though as far as combat speed is that most of the boss encounters can only be done so fast. You were in my stream yesterday, so you definitely noticed it was already fairly obvious on Calpernia (she can only take damage in certain chunks) and somewhat obvious on Corypheus (since I overdamaged him and broke the transition to the Red lyrium dragon and softlocked the game). So really, it might actually be worse/no better in some areas to have Cassandra solely because her damage increases make a negligible difference or risks a softlock. Also, I don't believe I accurately accomplished it in my stream yesterday, but I do believe the Nightmare Demon also works in a somewhat similar way to Calpernia, my damage output there just wasn't high enough due to not abusing flasks and such, but I could be wrong. At that point, the main reason to bring along Cassandra over Vivienne is to take the guard off the red lyrium dragon (since we can just get dispel on the inquisitor) and maybe take down the dragon a bit faster, and I don't entirely think that would make up for the amount of extra time we'd spend getting an additional set of schematics for Cassandra, but I guess it'll need to be tested. I guess her damage/other bonuses would be useful on Winter Palace fights, too.[/quote]

The Nightmare demon can actually be killed with enough damage the 2nd time he appears, I do believe he did so in my first run that's available on Twitch. So, that would save some hassle, as that fight took quite a while with tier 2 weapons (I used Dorian though).

I would have to agree, the only time that Cassandra looks really promising is the Red Lyrium Fight, and that might save at most a minute with the tier 2 weapons. Takes longer to grab decent weapons for Cassandra. But, it will have to be tested. Afterall, a combo-wombo (without potions and Horn of Valor) takes down a Prime Demon (which, we only fight once post-Haven).

letterswords

2015-01-15 09:24:36 am

twitch.tv/letterswords

Ok, so its only the first "phase" (for lack of a better word) where you can't kill the nightmare demon, good to know. But yeah, I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference especially if we start properly abusing flasks+potions to get damage bonuses. I wonder what the best way to get elfroot is if we do go with picking up regeneration potions for the potential damage bonus, since we don't really have much gold when we go to the crossroads vendor. I guess we could do a bit of our duping there or something? We probably wouldn't need much more than 15 or so elfroot @ 20 gold each.

Hauwlyn

2015-01-15 11:06:27 am

Quote from DashingSplash:

It doesn't matter what your loading times are, we are timing the loading screens and then we subtract the time from our RTA after the run is finished. True, SATA 1 would have longer loading times than my SATA 2, but not that much slower, right? IIrc, most 7200RPM HDDs top out at around 130 MB/s, right? So, there should be no difference between my 7200RPM HDD and your 7200RPM HDD.

Actually, more than just loading times, the problem is that I frequently get the bug where NPCs just don't load at all and you have to exit and come back to try and load them again. On my first playthrough, I had to reload the Hinterlands 5 times just to get Speaker Anais to show up. I doubt I'll ever get a run where no important NPC ever do that.

DashingSplash

Edit history:

DashingSplash: 2015-01-15 02:53:04 pm

2015-01-15 02:41:30 pm

Quote from letterswords:

Ok, so its only the first "phase" (for lack of a better word) where you can't kill the nightmare demon, good to know. But yeah, I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference especially if we start properly abusing flasks+potions to get damage bonuses. I wonder what the best way to get elfroot is if we do go with picking up regeneration potions for the potential damage bonus, since we don't really have much gold when we go to the crossroads vendor. I guess we could do a bit of our duping there or something? We probably wouldn't need much more than 15 or so elfroot @ 20 gold each.

The Hinterlands resources at the War Table gives Elfroot; we can get it at the same time we get Embrium, and I don't think we would need much...6-12 Elfroot should be enough. Leliana gives 6: http://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/2ou74z/ive_done_nearly_9000_war_table_missions_to_see/

Quote from Hauwlyn:

Actually, more than just loading times, the problem is that I frequently get the bug where NPCs just don't load at all and you have to exit and come back to try and load them again. On my first playthrough, I had to reload the Hinterlands 5 times just to get Speaker Anais to show up. I doubt I'll ever get a run where no important NPC ever do that.

Ah, I had that problem in Skyhold before I defrag'd my HDD and made some more space available. Hmmm, I guess it would be hard to speedrun when that's a frequent occurence, and I suppose getting an upgrade can be hard aswell.

[quote="letterswords"]Ok, so its only the first "phase" (for lack of a better word) where you can't kill the nightmare demon, good to know. But yeah, I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference especially if we start properly abusing flasks+potions to get damage bonuses. I wonder what the best way to get elfroot is if we do go with picking up regeneration potions for the potential damage bonus, since we don't really have much gold when we go to the crossroads vendor. I guess we could do a bit of our duping there or something? We probably wouldn't need much more than 15 or so elfroot @ 20 gold each.[/quote]

The Hinterlands resources at the War Table gives Elfroot; we can get it at the same time we get Embrium, and I don't think we would need much...6-12 Elfroot should be enough. Leliana gives 6: http://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/2ou74z/ive_done_nearly_9000_war_table_missions_to_see/

[quote="Hauwlyn"]
Actually, more than just loading times, the problem is that I frequently get the bug where NPCs just don't load at all and you have to exit and come back to try and load them again. On my first playthrough, I had to reload the Hinterlands 5 times just to get Speaker Anais to show up. I doubt I'll ever get a run where no important NPC ever do that.[/quote]

Ah, I had that problem in Skyhold before I defrag'd my HDD and made some more space available. Hmmm, I guess it would be hard to speedrun when that's a frequent occurence, and I suppose getting an upgrade can be hard aswell.

kazardcode

2015-01-17 11:35:37 pm

The frames

Isn't it easier to obtain plaideweave from the RNG sacks when waking up at haven, at the first one when moving along the left side, or the sack on the left side of the big door , before the door to the war room ? Since i found plaideweave in one of those on my third playthrough. Saving before checking the Sack and than loading if no plaideweave, changes the contents of those sacks after testing it. Though its still RNG reliant at least it's early into the run so not that big of a deal and its along the initial route thus saving some time.

Don't click it ... It's Embarrassing for me >-< [url]http://pastebin.com/JRACWBuE/url]

DashingSplash

2015-01-18 01:51:19 pm

Quote from kazardcode:

Isn't it easier to obtain plaideweave from the RNG sacks when waking up at haven, at the first one when moving along the left side, or the sack on the left side of the big door , before the door to the war room ? Since i found plaideweave in one of those on my third playthrough. Saving before checking the Sack and than loading if no plaideweave, changes the contents of those sacks after testing it. Though its still RNG reliant at least it's early into the run so not that big of a deal and its along the initial route thus saving some time.

Don't click it ... It's Embarrassing for me >-< [url]http://pastebin.com/JRACWBuE/url]

That's a very good question! Gotta take a look at those areas, and if it is that early one could reset the run till one gets a good Plaideweave RNG since it only takes 11 minutes to get to Haven.

Also, sweet try on the Nightmare difficulty! <öAö> I'm really looking forward to try a Nightmare run myself, and I can think of a potential route already. I actually didn't know the thing about Silverite and armour...Very easy to make Vivienne even more OP. Also nice guide you found for the Hissing Wastes.

In the Storm Coast you can get the increase damage elixir btw.; which, would be great for Sera's combo-wombo.

[quote="kazardcode"]Isn't it easier to obtain plaideweave from the RNG sacks when waking up at haven, at the first one when moving along the left side, or the sack on the left side of the big door , before the door to the war room ?  Since i found plaideweave in one of those on my third playthrough.  Saving before checking the Sack and than loading if no plaideweave, changes the contents of those sacks after testing it. Though its still RNG reliant at least it's early into the run so not that big of a deal and its along the initial route thus saving some time.

[hidden] Don't click it ... It's Embarrassing for me >-<  [url]http://pastebin.com/JRACWBuE/url]   [/hidden][/quote]

That's a very good question! Gotta take a look at those areas, and if it is that early one could reset the run till one gets a good Plaideweave RNG since it only takes 11 minutes to get to Haven.

Also, sweet try on the Nightmare difficulty! <öAö> I'm really looking forward to try a Nightmare run myself, and I can think of a potential route already. I actually didn't know the thing about Silverite and armour...Very easy to make Vivienne even more OP. Also nice guide you found for the Hissing Wastes.

In the Storm Coast you can get the increase damage elixir btw.; which, would be great for Sera's combo-wombo.

Hauwlyn

Edit history:

Hauwlyn: 2015-01-18 06:53:07 pm

2015-01-18 06:51:46 pm

Quote from kazardcode:

Isn't it easier to obtain plaideweave from the RNG sacks when waking up at haven, at the first one when moving along the left side, or the sack on the left side of the big door , before the door to the war room ? Since i found plaideweave in one of those on my third playthrough. Saving before checking the Sack and than loading if no plaideweave, changes the contents of those sacks after testing it. Though its still RNG reliant at least it's early into the run so not that big of a deal and its along the initial route thus saving some time.

Don't click it ... It's Embarrassing for me >-< [url]http://pastebin.com/JRACWBuE/url]

Nice to know someone has been working on the Nightmare category! Will you be able and willing to stream it at some point?

Quote from DashingSplash:

In the Storm Coast you can get the increase damage elixir btw.; which, would be great for Sera's combo-wombo.

I think that would be worth it if you get the first upgrade on it, yes, which requires a dawn lotus. You can get one early on in Haven I believe, one of the first containers you come across, RNG based. but if you don't it might kill the run as those are otherwise exclusive to the Fallow Mire and it would be a waste of time and power to go look for it. The basic version of the potion might not be worth the detour, as you have to go kill that mage far away from the Storm Coast, then come back to the house that holds the recipe. Maybe include some Storm Coast objectives in the power&influence routing?

[quote="kazardcode"]Isn't it easier to obtain plaideweave from the RNG sacks when waking up at haven, at the first one when moving along the left side, or the sack on the left side of the big door , before the door to the war room ?  Since i found plaideweave in one of those on my third playthrough.  Saving before checking the Sack and than loading if no plaideweave, changes the contents of those sacks after testing it. Though its still RNG reliant at least it's early into the run so not that big of a deal and its along the initial route thus saving some time.

[hidden] Don't click it ... It's Embarrassing for me >-<  [url]http://pastebin.com/JRACWBuE/url]   [/hidden][/quote]

Nice to know someone has been working on the Nightmare category! Will you be able and willing to stream it at some point?

[quote="DashingSplash"]In the Storm Coast you can get the increase damage elixir btw.; which, would be great for Sera's combo-wombo.[/quote]

I think that would be worth it if you get the first upgrade on it, yes, which requires a dawn lotus. You can get one early on in Haven I believe, one of the first containers you come across, RNG based. but if you don't it might kill the run as those are otherwise exclusive to the Fallow Mire and it would be a waste of time and power to go look for it. The basic version of the potion might not be worth the detour, as you have to go kill that mage far away from the Storm Coast, then come back to the house that holds the recipe. Maybe include some Storm Coast objectives in the power&influence routing?

letterswords

2015-01-18 08:00:27 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

No need to feel bad about the bad time in nightmare, its quite a bit more complicated and I'm not sure I'd have the balls to do it myself with how difficult it is to stay alive already. As far as the plaidweave, I was actually considering looking around into other places to farm it (I was personally thinking about the Hinterlands), but its nice to know that there is some place that could probably work better. I'll have to test it out to see if its a more common drop, but I wouldn't be shocked, as I had noticed that the Crestwood sacks quite often have tier 2 materials, but my guess is Haven would only have tier 1 materials on its loot table, which could make it significantly more likely to have plaidweave.

DashingSplash

2015-01-18 11:02:08 pm

Quote from Hauwlyn:

I think that would be worth it if you get the first upgrade on it, yes, which requires a dawn lotus. You can get one early on in Haven I believe, one of the first containers you come across, RNG based. but if you don't it might kill the run as those are otherwise exclusive to the Fallow Mire and it would be a waste of time and power to go look for it. The basic version of the potion might not be worth the detour, as you have to go kill that mage far away from the Storm Coast, then come back to the house that holds the recipe. Maybe include some Storm Coast objectives in the power&influence routing?

Well, the Fallow Mire resources have a chance to give Dawn Lotus when using Leliana, but it is quite small, so another element of RNG in a pretty decently long run (~4 hours w/o loading screens?).

You could always go to the Storm Coast after arriving in Skyhold, and use a FoL clip to get through the door to the cabin, and since we don't do any fighting between Skyhold and level 6 influence we wouldn't have to do any power/influence routing. The elixir would just mean that we can beat the game with worse gear, and lower levels...And, it starts to get a bit harder after entering Skyhold.

[quote="Hauwlyn"]I think that would be worth it if you get the first upgrade on it, yes, which requires a dawn lotus. You can get one early on in Haven I believe, one of the first containers you come across, RNG based. but if you don't it might kill the run as those are otherwise exclusive to the Fallow Mire and it would be a waste of time and power to go look for it. The basic version of the potion might not be worth the detour, as you have to go kill that mage far away from the Storm Coast, then come back to the house that holds the recipe. Maybe include some Storm Coast objectives in the power&influence routing?[/quote]

Well, the Fallow Mire resources have a chance to give Dawn Lotus when using Leliana, but it is quite small, so another element of RNG in a pretty decently long run (~4 hours w/o loading screens?).

You could always go to the Storm Coast after arriving in Skyhold, and use a FoL clip to get through the door to the cabin, and since we don't do any fighting between Skyhold and level 6 influence we wouldn't have to do any power/influence routing. The elixir would just mean that we can beat the game with worse gear, and lower levels...And, it starts to get a bit harder after entering Skyhold.

kazardcode

2015-01-18 11:15:42 pm

The frames

For Letterswords: Well There are also cloth sacks along the route you guys developed in the hinterlands , as i usually save and load the sack near the broken boat near the waterfall after killing templars to the west. Also more sacks such as the sack near the guy that gives the watch tower quest after getting the mount. Also one sack in the stable when helping out speaker anais , another couple of sacks when going up to redcliffe gate. I think your assumption is right since plaideweave is a tier 1 material so either haven or hinterlands would have the higher chance of giving plaide weave :P.

For DashingSplash : yes i know about the damage elixir but after looking up a guide for it , http://gaminggix.com/dragon-age-inquistion/where-to-get-the-last-tonic-mighty-offense-tonic-dragon-age-inquisition/ , I reconsidered since it would take a long time to travel to the cabin, and than a long while to reach the location of the rebel mage. The worst part is that the rebel mage has a RNG spawn and thus may take a good amount of tries to get the mage and kill him and than travel back to the cabin taking a good amount of time.
Edit: well If the FoL clip works for the door Than you already blown away my counter argument before I even posted it :O .. Too good :p

For Hauwlyn : well i already have OBS installed , I just havn't messed around with it much and also need to get it to link to my twitch account :p. Second of all , no need to worry for dawn lotus as getting the Trainee herbalist perk will give the elfroot and dawn lotus needed http://gaminggix.com/dragon-age-inquistion/trainee-herbalist-what-i-received-from-this-inquisition-perk/ For the first upgrade, but the second upgrades harder to get. And well Based from the map http://game-maps.com/DAI/The-Storm-Coast.asp I can think of a route , unless DashingSplashes idea of FoL clip works on the door which needs to be tested. As DashingSplash said going to stormcoast after skyhold and getting level 6 influence was a much better idea than what I attempted to do :p. But I only did stormcoast early to try to get bulls approval rating higher when killing venatori during the destruction of Haven, and you know what it didn't work -_-.

For Letterswords: Well There are also cloth sacks along the route you guys developed in the hinterlands , as i usually save and load the sack near the broken boat near the waterfall after killing templars to the west. Also more sacks such as the sack near the guy that gives the watch tower quest after getting the mount. Also one sack in the stable when helping out speaker anais , another couple of sacks when going up to redcliffe gate. I think your assumption is right since plaideweave is a tier 1 material so either haven or hinterlands would have the higher chance of giving plaide weave :P.

For DashingSplash : yes i know about the damage elixir but after looking up a guide for it , [url]http://gaminggix.com/dragon-age-inquistion/where-to-get-the-last-tonic-mighty-offense-tonic-dragon-age-inquisition/[/url] , I reconsidered since it would take a long time to travel to the cabin, and than a long while to reach the location of the rebel mage. The worst part is that the rebel mage has a RNG spawn and thus may take a good amount of tries to get the mage and kill him and than travel back to the cabin taking a good amount of time. 
Edit: well If the FoL clip works for the door Than you already blown away my counter argument before I even posted it :O .. Too good :p

For Hauwlyn : well i already have OBS installed , I just havn't messed around with it much and also need to get it to link to my twitch account :p. Second of all , no need to worry for dawn lotus as getting the Trainee herbalist perk will give the elfroot and dawn lotus needed [url]http://gaminggix.com/dragon-age-inquistion/trainee-herbalist-what-i-received-from-this-inquisition-perk/[/url] For the first upgrade, but the second upgrades harder to get.  And well Based from the map [url]http://game-maps.com/DAI/The-Storm-Coast.asp[/url] I can think of a route , unless DashingSplashes idea of FoL clip works on the door which needs to be tested. As DashingSplash said going to stormcoast after skyhold and getting level 6 influence was a much better idea than what I attempted to do :p. But I only did stormcoast early to try to get bulls approval rating higher when killing venatori during the destruction of Haven, and you know what it didn't work -_-.

letterswords

2015-01-19 02:14:56 pm

twitch.tv/letterswords

Just a warning for anyone who might have been up to date on patches (as of yesterday, at least), but it looks like the patch released today officially kills the ability to do the run: they vaguely say "fixed a way to exploit gold in single-player" or something, which presumably is either the duping glitch or the buy and sell back items to get power/influence.

DashingSplash

2015-01-19 02:36:18 pm

Quote from letterswords:

Just a warning for anyone who might have been up to date on patches (as of yesterday, at least), but it looks like the patch released today officially kills the ability to do the run: they vaguely say "fixed a way to exploit gold in single-player" or something, which presumably is either the duping glitch or the buy and sell back items to get power/influence.

I still have the day 1 patch, and I'll keep it at that as that patch works good for me.

On a sidenote, I might try a Nightmare run out tomorrow and see where I'll fail. Still haven't done the new route on any% casual.

kazardcode

2015-01-19 05:28:33 pm

The frames

Yeah just checked that out , and from the notes it seems that they're fixing both the duping glitch and the influence/power glitch as well -__- I can thick of ways around the lost of duping , but that's just going to make the run on nightmare longer than it already was , especially with lost of cheap easy to get power -_-. Good luck with the NightMare run DashingSplash :O

DashingSplash

2015-01-20 06:04:04 am

Didn't do a nightmare run due to time limitations. But, I did some testing as I had about two hours free, and you can actually beat the final boss with tier 2 weapons (without a grip for Sera's daggers) on nightmare using the mighty offense tonic (yes, you can clip inside the cabin). Just tried it out without the tonic, and I can't clear the last fight even with Cassandra's horn of valor and blessed blades, but I think it might be possible. Wouldn't want to skip the mighty offense tonic anyway as it is fast to get, and we can surely lose time if we fail bosses (Calpernia and the Nightmare comes to mind). Otherwise there won't be much change between Nightmare and Casual.

What we need to do extra is grab the Mighty Offense Tonic after level 6 influence, and grab the Warrior schematics (?) to get the heavy armor; which, we can equip on Sera, Inquisitor, Cassandra, and Vivienne. We also need to grab the trainee herbalist perk, as it will give us a Dawn Lotus, and possibly do a few Hinterlands Resources with Leliana for some extra Elfroot if needed. Now, what might be hard is the Templar Quest, and some other things might still be hard (so, perhaps Suledin Keep is needed for the Tier 3 weapons). Any good weapons pre-Skyhold that could potentially help us out?

Also, you don't have to grab the regeneration potion from the apothecary, as you can buy it in Skyhold next to Farris.

Didn't do a nightmare run due to time limitations. But, I did some testing as I had about two hours free, and you can actually beat the final boss with tier 2 weapons (without a grip for Sera's daggers) on nightmare using the mighty offense tonic (yes, you can clip inside the cabin). Just tried it out without the tonic, and I can't clear the last fight even with Cassandra's horn of valor and blessed blades, but I think it might be possible. Wouldn't want to skip the mighty offense tonic anyway as it is fast to get, and we can surely lose time if we fail bosses (Calpernia and the Nightmare comes to mind). Otherwise there won't be much change between Nightmare and Casual.

What we need to do extra is grab the Mighty Offense Tonic after level 6 influence, and grab the Warrior schematics (?) to get the heavy armor; which, we can equip on Sera, Inquisitor, Cassandra, and Vivienne. We also need to grab the trainee herbalist perk, as it will give us a Dawn Lotus, and possibly do a few Hinterlands Resources with Leliana for some extra Elfroot if needed. Now, what might be hard is the Templar Quest, and some other things might still be hard (so, perhaps Suledin Keep is needed for the Tier 3 weapons). Any good weapons pre-Skyhold that could potentially help us out?

Also, you don't have to grab the regeneration potion from the apothecary, as you can buy it in Skyhold next to Farris.

DashingSplash

2015-01-20 06:29:49 am

I just tried to record it for y'all...But, I can't finish the final boss with the tier 2 weapons anymore. /: I also double checked the difficulty in the attempts that I did finish it, and with these new attempts. Tier 3 might be necessary. I do like the Emprise du Lion skips though. :3