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Finapse: 2012-11-28 04:15:52 pm
Quote from RoboSparkle:
Quote from CVagts:
"often hostile to people" seems like a gross exaggeration, I've never seen SRL be openly hostile to people for simply suggesting things.

This exactly, word for word.  Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've not seen it.

Maybe I'm just around at the wrong times, then, but if someone makes any comment the lack of well-defined rules for what is and isn't acceptable as a race, that person tends to get torn a new one.

I'm just saying I've personally seen at least one half-op in that channel tell more than one person to "fuck off and make (your own) site". There's no room for discussion.

(It seems like the leaderboard/points system is sacred, and any discussion of changing it is met with hostile remarks, just from what I've seen.)


Quote from Chrno:
That's wrong. Just because Cosmo is the owner of a channel does not mean he is responsible for it's users and their actions, much like how he is not responsible for the actions of people that visit and use the chat in his stream for example. If I was having an argument on #sda, I would not expect an admin on that channel to come in and interfere.

Then things here must be quite different from almost any other community, where being hostile towards other members is usually a punishable offense. It's not terribly unlike having people in one's house; if they start to fight and argue, you generally have a good reason to step in and break it up. Obviously if the conflict is outside of your areas, then you have no real obligations and often should stay out of it.

Similarly, if you walk into a store or such, and start misbehaving, you will usually be asked to leave. The same thing is usually expected online.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
My only real issue with SRL is that nobody ever wants to race the games I run, my suggestions to race them get met with stony silence or a short "no, sorry, how about <insert popular Nintendo Game that I don't play here>?"

Could Cosmo pretty please fix that as well? Smiley
Quote from RoboSparkle:
My only real issue with SRL is that nobody ever wants to race the games I run, my suggestions to race them get met with stony silence or a short "no, sorry, how about <insert popular Nintendo Game that I don't play here>?"

Could Cosmo pretty please fix that as well? Smiley


I'll get right on that
Edit history:
dunnius: 2012-11-28 04:17:34 pm
Intruding N313 and F014
Quote from Chrno:
Quote from Finapse:
Having watched the #speedrunslive channel over the last few weeks, I can say that as the owner of a community, you really have an obligation to either handle the issues or appoint people who can if you don't feel you're capable.

That's wrong. Just because Cosmo is the owner of a channel does not mean he is responsible for it's users and their actions, much like how he is not responsible for the actions of people that visit and use the chat in his stream for example. If I was having an argument on #sda, I would not expect an admin on that channel to come in and interfere.

Right, but an owner is responsible for their ops' actions.
every game is a horror game
So what do you guys who are standing up for the "bullied" propose that Cosmo do?
Edit history:
Chrno: 2012-11-28 04:20:02 pm
WOW.
Quote from dunnius:
Quote from Chrno:
Quote from Finapse:
Having watched the #speedrunslive channel over the last few weeks, I can say that as the owner of a community, you really have an obligation to either handle the issues or appoint people who can if you don't feel you're capable.

That's wrong. Just because Cosmo is the owner of a channel does not mean he is responsible for it's users and their actions, much like how he is not responsible for the actions of people that visit and use the chat in his stream for example. If I was having an argument on #sda, I would not expect an admin on that channel to come in and interfere.

Right, but an owner is responsible for their ops' actions.

I would not say 'responsible' per say, but I would definatly say that it's up to the owner to decide if it's something they want in there community or not. Being responsible for it is something completly different.
The owner is not responsible for micromanaging users, but they are responsible for enforcing a certain standard of behavior among the channel's users and especially its staff. Of course it's none of his business if it happens off-site, but anything that happens in the channel should be dealt with, especially if it becomes a recurring problem.
Edit history:
Chrno: 2012-11-28 04:24:18 pm
Chrno: 2012-11-28 04:22:51 pm
WOW.
Quote from Paraxade:
The owner is not responsible for micromanaging users, but they are responsible for enforcing a certain standard of behavior among the channel's users and especially its staff. Of course it's none of his business if it happens off-site, but anything that happens in the channel should be dealt with, especially if it becomes a recurring problem.

Yeah, that's kinda my point summarised better.

So can this thread get back on topic now?
This is ridiculous really. I feel like I'm getting put through online secondary school reading this topic. Most people here are presumably grown adults, so just grow a pair and deal with it. Also, at least have the balls to say who you're talking about when publicly writing in a thread rather than dodging name dropping. It's like throwing a stick at someone and then hiding or something. If you have a problem with someone, tell them. Resolve it. Don't complain to others about it. Zzzz
Edit history:
Paraxade: 2012-11-28 04:32:01 pm
Because the point is to discuss issues with the way the communities are being managed. These specific incidents are being brought up as examples, they aren't meant to be the main point of the discussion, and so bringing up names doesn't really do anything.

I don't think it's really helping to leave them out either, though, so meh.
Magical. Flying. Bathtub
Out of interest, am I the only person who didn't think there was even a perceived split between SDA and SRL until we had this discussion about what to do about the perceived split between SDA and SRL?

If that's the case can we start telling people it's fixed?  As that would probably fix it.
Quote from RoboSparkle:
Out of interest, am I the only person who didn't think there was even a perceived split between SDA and SRL until we had this discussion about what to do about the perceived split between SDA and SRL?

If that's the case can we start telling people it's fixed?  As that would probably fix it.



For what it's worth, I'm talking about SRL exclusively. There's no other place for a persistent, longer discussion at SRL itself, so this is the next best thing.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with how the communities are being managed. Some people don't get along with other people within the speedrunning community, and instead of resolving it between themselves they're posting about it here. I don't see how the managers of the communities are even relevant to this, or how they're expected to have dealt with this/deal with this either. It's not their problem, really, is it? A few individuals have an argument or dislike each other... this happens all the time in almost every community, be it online or offline. I would expect that in any other community I've ever been a part of, that either the effected people would amicably come to a resolve, or they'd realise they just don't get along and would stay out of each others way.
1-Up!
Quote from RoboSparkle:
If that's the case can we start telling people it's fixed?

Um, we did. Lot's of us were in the same boat as you and didn't think it was an issue. Stuff like this continues to come out of the woodwork.

People need to realize that even though the issues here are personal and not sda vs srl in any way, 3rd parties will see it that way. People not involved with the problem see it as SRL people doing things to SDA people (or vice-versa). All of this bullying hurts the images of both communities.
Moo! Flap! Hug!
RoboSparkle: I hadn't noticed before this discussion either. However, I have noticed an increase over the last year in the amount of snarkiness, ego, and generally bitchy and juvenile behaviour in the community.

Whereas in the past, I felt runners worked together to make the best run possible (regardless of who held the record at the end of the day -- friendly competition aside), it feels to me now like the community is becoming more about one-upmanship than anything else. Whereas before, people were encouraged to get better, they're now written off as "sucking balls" (or some other idiotic quote that belongs in a junior high school).

I don't know if I'm just being nostalgic about the past, but it feels to me like there's been a shift for the negative in the "community" in this community. Some people have claimed that it's a rift between SDA and SRL that's causing these problems, and I don't know if that's true. But, as a member of the community, I feel the change, and I don't like it.
Increased popularity has its drawbacks. More and more "crowd" rather than "gamers" are showing up on the scene. And this not only changes a community, it also has strong influences on individuals aswell.
Quote:
Whereas before, people were encouraged to get better, they're now written off as "sucking balls" (or some other idiotic quote that belongs in a junior high school).


I like my girlfriends art but...
Edit history:
dunnius: 2012-11-28 04:48:59 pm
Intruding N313 and F014
Quote from bangerra:
Increased popularity has its drawbacks. More and more "crowd" rather than "gamers" are showing up on the scene. And this not only changes a community, it also has strong influences on individuals aswell.

That's true.  I miss the old days of #smw when it was focused on the game rather than idle, stupid chat.  Though that is part of this overall problem...
Moo! Flap! Hug!
As an aside: perhaps that observation is relevant to a current discussion in another thread about whether or not to add an "off-topic" board to SDA.
What is this, Mean Girls..!?
Quote from ChristosOwen:
This is ridiculous really. I feel like I'm getting put through online secondary school reading this topic. Most people here are presumably grown adults, so just grow a pair and deal with it. Also, at least have the balls to say who you're talking about when publicly writing in a thread rather than dodging name dropping. It's like throwing a stick at someone and then hiding or something. If you have a problem with someone, tell them. Resolve it. Don't complain to others about it. Zzzz

I'm actually talking to people on IRC about it right now. I didn't do that first because I was afraid he wouldn't just *talk* about it.

I suggest everyone else just go ahead, talk to whoever you have a problem with, get it out of the way, this is fucking dumb.

Swallow your egos and eat some crow, everyone, because I'm doing it too.
Moo! Flap! Hug!
I'm sorry to single you out, Riskbreaker, but this is case in point. Instead of contributing something to the discussion, you lobbed an insult that added absolutely nothing to the discussion. That's a microcosm of what is happening within the community. And it's cancerous in how it spreads.
Is PJ
Change of topic.

RBY, I love your mustache.  Let's be friends.
Moo! Flap! Hug!
Riskbreaker: I'm sorry for the harshness of my previous post. I wasn't trying to be a self-righteous douche; my post was typed in haste and frustration. Please know that I was just trying to point out what I perceive as a sickness that's starting to infect an awesome community, but that I didn't mean to be such a dick to you personally. I'm sorry, and I do think you're an awesome guy Smiley
Make it so.
Quote from Poxnor:
Riskbreaker: I'm sorry for the harshness of my previous post. I wasn't trying to be a self-righteous douche; my post was typed in haste and frustration. Please know that I was just trying to point out what I perceive as a sickness that's starting to infect an awesome community, but that I didn't mean to be such a dick to you personally. I'm sorry, and I do think you're an awesome guy Smiley


Poxnor showing himself to be an utter dude (in the best sense) in this post.

This isn't relevant in the slightest so my apologies there but I just kinda wanted to join PJ in trying to spread some love.